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What is the single biggest thing that can change for this team to be MORE successful in 2020?
- Thread starter theCATALYST
- Start date
Y'all are crazy. There is nothing wrong with this team. Heck, the owner said so himself:
"I aM pRoUd ThAt We PrOvIdEd OuR fAnS wItH mAnY tHrIlLiNg ViCtOrEeS aT hOmE, iNcLuDiNg A pLaYoFf WiN, aNd We DeLiVeReD aNoThEr DoUbLe-DiGiT wIn SeAsOn."
~ Cal McNair, January 28, 2020
You should be THANKFUL that we have a team in Houston. Geez, all this belly-aching and no faith in our DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIP (X4!!!) GM/HC.
It's like some folks just can't appreciate not being the Browns.
"I aM pRoUd ThAt We PrOvIdEd OuR fAnS wItH mAnY tHrIlLiNg ViCtOrEeS aT hOmE, iNcLuDiNg A pLaYoFf WiN, aNd We DeLiVeReD aNoThEr DoUbLe-DiGiT wIn SeAsOn."
~ Cal McNair, January 28, 2020
You should be THANKFUL that we have a team in Houston. Geez, all this belly-aching and no faith in our DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIP (X4!!!) GM/HC.
It's like some folks just can't appreciate not being the Browns.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Sure. These are just two opinions, not gospel. But they are both guys that have ALOT of experience learning offensive systems. One of them, direct experience under BOB's system.
Cecil mentioned the LARGE number of formations he had to learn (compared to other offenses). He mentioned routinely having to learn new plays every week. He mentioned the team having no identity (a core set of plays they execute well). These are all differences that both Wade & Cecil haven't experienced before with other teams.
These explanations make a lot of sense to me when talking about why the offense is inconsistent.
What's hard for me to believe is a single player is inconsistent, thus the offense is inconsistent. A certain player wakes up one day and he simply doesn't have it. Now that doesn't make sense to me.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
It makes plenty of sense if that 1 player is the leader of your team working with new pieces. There's already a certain level of reading of the defense that has to happen by both the QB & WR in any system for them to be on the same page, when you factor in 1 guy say a Kenny Stills who is brought in at the 11th hour prior to the season starting, it makes plenty of sense for them to have problems connecting at times. Likewise for 2 running backs, 3 new offensive linemen and a new TE. The Pats every year saw the same chemistry issues at the beginning of the year, but by the end, all those guys were on the same page & that's b/c TB12 brought it all together by being consistent in how he plays, expectations and demands. B/c DW4 is often working off script, it makes it hard for the guys around him to be on the same page with him; It makes for exciting plays, but not consistent offense. Saw the same with Vick..see the same with Wilson in Seattle too.
The qb is the guy who brings it all together.
You seem to have shifted your stance from it's just entertainment to it's a personal affront to you
Texansballer74
The Marine
These two gents aren't the only players who experienced how difficult this system was. Several players who played in New England said pretty much the same thing. Only difference was the inconsistent part. Those former players expressed how long it took to learn it.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Some people have a rebuttal for everything. Lol
dream_team
Hall of Fame
TBH, I'm not sure what we're debating? Haha...
Sure, I agree, turnover in the roster is a factor in regards to an inconsistent offense. But having the same personnel year after year is not a reality in the NFL. There's always free agency and injuries you'll have to deal with.
In addition to the frequent changing in players, you can't ignore Wade & Cecil's thoughts as well.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Bill Obrien is the reason for the turnover though. I preached the importance of continuity and cohesiveness every freaking year. But every year we kept seeing 3-4 new offensive linemen and a few skill players being replaced.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
agreed..but in the instance we’re seeing it, it was necessary almost every freaking year to go out and upgrade the personnel...that is unless u thought we should’ve stood pat with what we had on the o-line...lost Miller in preseason, had to go out and get a serviceable replacement. The guys behind him hasn’t been mainstays either.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
no arguing bro, just healthy debate. Wade and Cecil’s opinion hold weight for sure, but this team goes as DW4goes...& that’s usually the way it is for every team.
I like how Seattle & San Francisco (before Kaepernick got figured out) added additional passing options when the QB kept the ball. It would look like the QB is going to run, but there's an outlet for an easy throw built in.
We've got one play like that where Watson keeps it but Fells leeks out on a short route. We run it to both the short side and the long side of the field & it's usually good for 5 yards minimum. 30 I think is the most we got out of it.
But like the bubble screen is our only screen, it gets harder & harder to catch defenses by surprise.
In the divisional game they threw a wrinkle in the bubble screen, faked it, then got Stills wide open for an easy TD.
This is what I'm talking about when I say we need a better play caller. Someone who can set up plays like the fake bubble or the run-fake RPO to Fells in the same game & throw wrinkles in them from time to time.
If it takes a guy six years to implement a fake bubble screen, he's the wrong guy.
badboy
Hall of Fame
If I was an NFL head coach and I thought a certain offense was the best way By far to succeed, I would hesitate To bring in someone with a different offensive scheme.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
But after 6 seasons, and you have yet to build an above average offense... isn't it time to rethink your beliefs?
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
I think several posters (me included) see a disconnect in our offensive scheme and the QB we have not correctly fitting it. Now we could either find a QB who better fits, or we change our scheme to better fit our QB. In my opinion, we should change our offense to fit our talent. DW4 is definitely talented, and QB's of his level are HARD to find. I personally think that he would thrive in a west coast offense like Kubiak/Shannahan runs.
Truth be told, I wouldn't expect O'Brien to make this change. Cal would have to push it. And for that to happen, he would need to retain belief that OB is a good HC/GM, but realize that our offense with it's current weapons could be so much better.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
No. Prob focus on injuries, players that did not perform as expected, a GM that didn't "come through", etc. Now I am in total control and my way got me another step in POs so 2020 is my year. I am going to be Assertive in free agency and wise in the draft to plug all holes.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think my post history and my position on O'Brien is quite clear. He is not going anywhere and our only hope is to trade DeShaun Watson.
Problem is, OB just lets Watson play instead of improving his game. Watson is an awesome playmaker and an accomplished downfield thrower. Where we suffer is when we need a short passing game to eat clock and keep the DB's from cheating back.
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
I am in agreement, O'Brien is not going anywhere. However DW4 is also too good to give up on so easily. Which leaves us with.....needing a new offensive scheme. LET OB concentrate on being the HC/GM, find a suitable OC that fits DW4's strengths.
Ha! I'm just having fun, man. I can't take these discussions seriously because they are ultimately meaningless.
Do you honestly take this goofy poll seriously?
I guess I should have disclaimered my post with
. It's a long off-season. I amuse myself with silliness. I'd apologize if that offends anyone, but I'd be lying. I'd feel sorry for anyone that decided to be so thin-skinned that a nonsensical comment on a message board would ruin their day.
I have no expectations for this franchise and my perspective has never changed about it being entertainment. Saying stuff within the "football bubble" is not indicative of anything in real life.
Just wanted to make sure bro
Didn't even take poll
I guess I should have disclaimered my post with
That's what I had expected
Totally agree
badboy
Hall of Fame
Not giving up on #4 but we have only 2 pieces on chess board to bring tremendous value him and Hop. I know neither will be traded..so here we go again.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
New Ownership- I'll always appreciate the fact that McNair brought the NFL back to Houston but he never knew or learned how to be a good owner of an NFL football team. It's been one failed group of FO personnel and Coaching staffs after another. This poor track record has successfully been passed down to Cal.....unfortunately.
No domino falls until new ownership is in place and has a vision on how to build a franchise from the ground up.....McNair's, Casserly, Smith, Gaine nor OB have shown little to no idea as to how to accomplish this.
I'd much rather be a fan of a successful Texans franchise so I could just sit back and revel in their seasons versus spending each and every season trying to figure out how I would fix this broken franchise. Before anyone says look at how many Division Championships the team has had lately.......the key word is "lately". Lately, winning the AFC South was like picking the prettiest turd in a septic tank. Texans win a weak Division, then fall apart and get their arses handed to them in the playoffs.
Nothing changes until the change starts at the top. Mrs McNair and Cal could walk away a very wealthy if they decided to put the Texans on the market.
No domino falls until new ownership is in place and has a vision on how to build a franchise from the ground up.....McNair's, Casserly, Smith, Gaine nor OB have shown little to no idea as to how to accomplish this.
I'd much rather be a fan of a successful Texans franchise so I could just sit back and revel in their seasons versus spending each and every season trying to figure out how I would fix this broken franchise. Before anyone says look at how many Division Championships the team has had lately.......the key word is "lately". Lately, winning the AFC South was like picking the prettiest turd in a septic tank. Texans win a weak Division, then fall apart and get their arses handed to them in the playoffs.
Nothing changes until the change starts at the top. Mrs McNair and Cal could walk away a very wealthy if they decided to put the Texans on the market.
I think this is a misconception.
I remember back in the day we expected even the best prospects to "struggle" for a few years, especially without a running game to help him.
Now, Watson hasn't reached the AFCCG by his third year (injured half his first season) & it's time to trade him?
The kid won 11 games in his 2nd season, 10 in his third.
Yeah, Mahomes has accomplished much more... Watson is still pretty good, in this offense.
I'm not thrilled with the offense. But I believe the more it becomes Watson's, the happier I'll be.
Cleveland
Detroit
Miami
KC until recently & ownership has not changed.
New Orleans, heck even New England were Texans mediocre until... we're just waiting for for our "until"
If Reid was his coach, Watson would be a top 3 Qb, and we might have made a super bowl appearance.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think most on this MB want O'Brien to just let Watson play. And I think he did that more compared to 2018. . However, Watson was not as efficient. Even with a better o' line in front of him His stats were down across the board from 2018. I am under the impression that his high percentage is in the short-to-medium range Target? I also believe that few head coaches today want to use their quarterback throwing short passes to control the clock. TEs could do that but we use Hopkins or #4. I prefer that neither gets beat up accomplishing this on a regular basis. That's what running backs are for.
Watson is good as is, but he can be better. Need to tweak the O a bit and make him more into a complete QB.
badboy
Hall of Fame
It looks like the deal is that McNairs are going to take both curtains that they already have.
The deal is
1. Move O'Brien..ain"t happening.
2. Move Watson..most likely not happening.
3. Keep both and lather, rinse, repeat. Happening.
badboy
Hall of Fame
If "if and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas."
Sure, if you want to ignore what a good QB coach can do!!!!
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I fully realize that your option number 3 is what's happening. However my post was more of a (fantasy) choice for the individual. If you could only keep one of them, which one would you keep?
Hopefully you are right
Can he be?
Is that realistic?
That's not the usual way.
You need all 3 phases.
Even Brady needed the defense and the ST.
Look at how Elway won the two SBs.
Look at both Mannings.
aikman didn't win by himself
The Eagles won after Wentz went down.
Game managers won the SB several times.
Others had won on the strenght of the D.
DW4 scored 2 more TDs in 2019 than he did in 2018 in the regular season.
And even more in the play-offs.
badboy
Hall of Fame
not ignoring anything, when is Andy Reid becoming our head coach? We all get that there are better coaches than O'Brien.There's just not any coming to the Texans.
And I never said he was.
Andy Reid was simply an example of what a good coach could do w/ a majorly talented player like Watson. Instead, we get OB who declares Watson good enough, instead of working to shore up his deficiencies.
Very
You can't fix SOME of the deficiencies DW4 has. Despite what the JIC crowd wants you to believe.
Number19 said:
The single most realistic change would be to upgrade overall talent by having a sucessful draft and getting solid talent with the majority of our picks, particularly our 2nd, 3rd and 4th round selections.
Had it ever been done under OB?
NOPE.
The single most realistic change would be to upgrade overall talent by having a sucessful draft and getting solid talent with the majority of our picks, particularly our 2nd, 3rd and 4th round selections.
Had it ever been done under OB?
NOPE.
Since he's never been in charge of a draft, I would say we dont know.
But yes it's very possible.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Ok.....lets have the Texans trade Watson to the Rams for Goff. Watson would be a way better fit in their offense and believe it or not, Goff is the prototypical QB for OB's complicated offense. Texans could probably get the Rams to include a couple of picks in this deal as well. Why? Watson would put a lot butts in the seats of that new stadium b/c fans in LA would think they robbed us. OB could be the QB whisperer and elevate Goff's game to fit his system.
Wentz is the young QB that would best fit BOB's scheme. IMHO