What I am looking at, feedback appreciated

[mussop]

I actually see this in quite the opposite light. NT is position that is normally tougher to accumulate stats & thus one that is capable of compiling some decent numbers has really done some work fighting on the inside. Mitchell produced the most of the 2 having less playing time. Plain & simple. There were slim to no games that I thought Cody absolutely stood out & was heads & tails above Mitchell & the numbers seem to support that. Now I also knew the injury excuse would rear it's ugly head for Cody, but Mitchell slightly outperformed Cody in 2011 as well, which was only Mitchell's 2nd season. For the last 2 seasons Mitchell has out performed Cody in limited action. Cody has never been a real force & whether he wore down or not is subjective because to be honest Cody's production has been limited for quite some time regardless of his health status, so how would we judge his disappearing act in 2012 when it is all to similar to his performances of years past.

As I said before, I don't think Cody was necessarily the better option. Mitchell has shown improvement though out the years & it will be hard to convince most that the player w/ less playing time & better stats is the worst of the 2 options. I also have a hard time believing that this position will suffer from the statistically better player finally getting the opportunity to play more & thus potentially produce more. That thought process simply doesn't make sense imo. Even if you somehow based your opinion off of what you watched only...it still doesn't say Cody was the better of the 2 IMO. I too watch games, some multiple times, & simply haven't seen Cody as ever being an irreplaceable force in the middle...in fact it always been quite the opposite.

Who ever said Cody wasn't replaceable? IMO he is the Kevin Walter of the defense. When I said average that wasn't a complement. To me average is serviceable. That's all he's ever been. Yet Mitchell hasn't been able to take his starting spot. I don't give a rats patuty about stats.

Using stats to compare players is like using the combine to rate prospects. It just doesn't tell the whole story. Especially when you hand pick the ones that suite your point of view. I find it laughable that you think digging up a few stats off the Internet should hold more weight than a really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator opinion. But hey to each his own.

Cody is most likely done here and that (at this point) moves Mitchell to the starting role. If all we do is bring in a cheap FA or low round draft pick to back him up we are in trouble. That's my opinion. So we will just have to agree to dissagree.

We will find out soon enough who is right.

 

[mussop]

It depends on what you want. Mitchell penetrated the line & got off blocks better, which you would think we want. Cody held his ground better, & didn't get pushed around as easily. Which I think bottle necked run plays & freed up the ILBs.

I beleive wade would prefer a penetrator. But that player has to be able to hold up against the run better than what Mitchell showed. That's the reason he couldn't beat out an average player in Cody.

 

[tru80texan]

Who ever said Cody wasn't replaceable? IMO he is the Kevin Walter of the defense. When I said average that wasn't a complement. To me average is serviceable. That's all he's ever been. Yet Mitchell hasn't been able to take his starting spot. I don't give a rats patuty about stats.

Using stats to compare players is like using the combine to rate prospects. It just doesn't tell the whole story. Especially when you hand pick the ones that suite your point of view. I find it laughable that you think digging up a few stats off the Internet should hold more weight than a really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator opinion. But hey to each his own.

Cody is most likely done here and that (at this point) moves Mitchell to the starting role. If all we do is bring in a cheap FA or low round draft pick to back him up we are in trouble. That's my opinion. So we will just have to agree to dissagree.

We will find out soon enough who is right.

So let's see, you call Cody the defenses "Kevin Walter"....can't say I disagree. In fact, I agree 100%, but what confuses me is that you later say that you find it laughable that I question a "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" based on stats. Well, that's interesting because I think at least I offered stats as a reasoning for questioning the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" while you offered nothing more then your opinion & it seems you questioned him as well. By simply referring to Cody as the "Kevin Walter" of the defense, that by popular opinion means that Cody is an underperforming starter who does not necessarily deserve to be a starter & should/ needs to be replaced w/ a worthy alternative. That somewhat sounds like you too question the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator", but chose a different way to express it. It the end it seems to be the same...just saying.

We can agree to disagree. How we will know who will be right or wrong when it's all said & done is beyond me though since you seem to disregard stats as if they have no significance. I beg to differ. If Mitchell simply averages more than 1 tackle a game next season then it would seem I prevailed, but I'm sure you have different standards that will sway it in your direction in your opinion & somehow glorify Cody's 17 tackles this past season & trump Mitchell's production. Lol!

 

[mussop]

So let's see, you call Cody the defenses "Kevin Walter"....can't say I disagree. In fact, I agree 100%, but what confuses me is that you later say that you find it laughable that I question a "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" based on stats. Well, that's interesting because I think at least I offered stats as a reasoning for questioning the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" while you offered nothing more then your opinion & it seems you questioned him as well. By simply referring to Cody as the "Kevin Walter" of the defense, that by popular opinion means that Cody is an underperforming starter who does not necessarily deserve to be a starter & should/ needs to be replaced w/ a worthy alternative. That somewhat sounds like you too question the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator", but chose a different way to express it. It the end it seems to be the same...just saying.

We can agree to disagree. How we will know who will be right or wrong when it's all said & done is beyond me though since you seem to disregard stats as if they have no significance. I beg to differ. If Mitchell simply averages more than 1 tackle a game next season then it would seem I prevailed, but I'm sure you have different standards that will sway it in your direction in your opinion & somehow glorify Cody's 17 tackles this past season & trump Mitchell's production. Lol!

Really? Ok! First off let me clarify that IMO Walter is serviceable. He is good at the basic skill needed to play WR in this offense, blocking. That is why he continues to start over other WRs that probably as good as him at catching the ball and Even better at YAC.

Now back to Cody. He starts over Mitchell even though mitchell is better at penetrating because he is at least average against the run. If Mitchell was even half way decent at stopping the run he WOULD of been starting the last two years. He's not so be hasn't. It's that simple and no stat you have shown says different.


You want some stats that back that up? Def snaps last year, Mitchell, 397 / Cody, 257. Kinda makes you look stupid for throwing out games started vs tackles as evidence that Mitchell is better than Cody don't you think?

 

[beerlover]

Cody is a savvy vet who understands gap responsibility. Earl uses his explosiveness to dis-engage blocking scheme, usually just redirected but does get into space & pursue.

 

[mussop]

So let's see, you call Cody the defenses "Kevin Walter"....can't say I disagree. In fact, I agree 100%, but what confuses me is that you later say that you find it laughable that I question a "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" based on stats. Well, that's interesting because I think at least I offered stats as a reasoning for questioning the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" while you offered nothing more then your opinion & it seems you questioned him as well. By simply referring to Cody as the "Kevin Walter" of the defense, that by popular opinion means that Cody is an underperforming starter who does not necessarily deserve to be a starter & should/ needs to be replaced w/ a worthy alternative. That somewhat sounds like you too question the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator", but chose a different way to express it. It the end it seems to be the same...just saying.

We can agree to disagree. How we will know who will be right or wrong when it's all said & done is beyond me though since you seem to disregard stats as if they have no significance. I beg to differ. If Mitchell simply averages more than 1 tackle a game next season then it would seem I prevailed, but I'm sure you have different standards that will sway it in your direction in your opinion & somehow glorify Cody's 17 tackles this past season & trump Mitchell's production. Lol!

Cody is a savvy vet who understands gap responsibility. Earl uses his explosiveness to dis-engage blocking scheme, usually just redirected but does get into space & pursue.

But but according to miss leading stats Mitchell is better and should start.

 

[tru80texan]

Really? Ok! First off let me clarify that IMO Walter is serviceable. He is good at the basic skill needed to play WR in this offense, blocking. That is why he continues to start over other WRs that probably as good as him at catching the ball and Even better at YAC.

Now back to Cody. He starts over Mitchell even though mitchell is better at penetrating because he is at least average against the run. If Mitchell was even half way decent at stopping the run he WOULD of been starting the last two years. He's not so be hasn't. It's that simple and no stat you have shown says different.


You want some stats that back that up? Def snaps last year, Mitchell, 397 / Cody, 257. Kinda makes you look stupid for throwing out games started vs tackles as evidence that Mitchell is better than Cody don't you think?

By far the weakest & most pathetic excuse for starting an underperforming wr w/ slim to no play making ability. So why doesnt every NFL team start at least 1 of their best blocking wr's as opposed to a playmaker...maybe because it only makes sense in Kubiak's world. Thank GOODNESS the owner has once again stepped in to guide Kubiak in what he needs to do, get a playmaking WR opposite of AJ, to get this team moving in the right direction because some how even some fans are starting to foolishly believe Walter is "good" & deserves to start simply because he can block. Talk about something looking stupid.

As far as Mitchell, he still produced the most amongst the 2. Ok, so he had more snaps according you(a link wouldve been nice but I trust you) but started less & it still equated to him being the most productive & obviously Wade felt the same because he put him in the game more over Cody. So, are you still questioning Wade? After all Wade is the good personel guy/ professional DC & if you are questioning him...well by your admission that is quite laughable.

Needless to say, we will continue to agree to disagree on both Mitchell & let's go ahead & add Walter. Best blocker deserves to be a starter...wow. Only in Houston.

 

[mussop]

By far the weakest & most pathetic excuse for starting an underperforming wr w/ slim to no play making ability. So why doesnt every NFL team start at least 1 of their best blocking wr's as opposed to a playmaker...maybe because it only makes sense in Kubiak's world.

Well if you are a run first team and there are already 4 solid receiving options you better at least be able to run block.

Thank GOODNESS the owner has once again stepped in to guide Kubiak in what he needs to do, get a playmaking WR opposite of AJ, to get this team moving in the right direction because some how even some fans are starting to foolishly believe Walter is "good" & deserves to start simply because he can block. Talk about something looking stupid.

If you are refering to me you are making a big assumption.

As far as Mitchell, he still produced the most amongst the 2. Ok, so he had more snaps according you(a link wouldve been nice but I trust you) but started less & it still equated to him being the most productive & obviously Wade felt the same because he put him in the game more over Cody. So, are you still questioning Wade? After all Wade is the good personel guy/ professional DC & if you are questioning him...well by your admission that is quite laughable.

For the bold-There is this new thing called a search engine. It's really cool, all you do is type in what you are looking for and it gives you links that match what you are looking for. Since you obviously don't know what this is or how to use it I'll help you out. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

Now back to Cody. Like I said several times. If Mitchell could do the basics he would of been the starter two years ago. You cant start a guy at NT who can't stop the run. That is his primary job. The reason he (Mitchell) played more snaps is because he is a better penetrator therefore was the better option on passing downs.

There is no reason to question Wade for doing that. Its the smart thing to do. To think otherwise is laughable. The fact that he (Mitchell) is a better option on passing downs yet still can't beat out an "average" player like Cody for the starting job (who is really nothing but a smart player who knows his gap responsibility and holds up IMO below average against the run) should prove that Mitchell isn't good enough to be the full time starter. I can't see why that is so hard to grasp.

to say, we will continue to agree to disagree on both Mitchell & let's go ahead & add Walter. Best blocker deserves to be a starter...wow. Only in Houston.

Seriously? Did I ever say I agree with that philosophy? NOPE, SURE DIDN'T!!! Just saying that is how it is. Wow only on a message board.

 

[badboy]

First, I am not getting into name calling. Second I am not defending Cody and think he's gone so doesn't matter. I would prefer a Nose that can handle the run AND penetrate; Brandon or Sylvester Williams. Mitchell as a back up is ok but would rather see him at DE.

 

[mussop]

First, I am not getting into name calling. Second I am not defending Cody and think he's gone so doesn't matter. I would prefer a Nose that can handle the run AND penetrate; Brandon or Sylvester Williams. Mitchell as a back up is ok but would rather see him at DE.

No name calling going on here just a little debate. I normally agree with tru80texan on most subjects. He's a pretty smart guy. In the end we all want the same thing.

 

[Lucky]

I normally agree with tru80texan on most subjects. He's a pretty smart guy.

I'm certain he would agree with that.

 

[mussop]

First, I am not getting into name calling. Second I am not defending Cody and think he's gone so doesn't matter. I would prefer a Nose that can handle the run AND penetrate; Brandon or Sylvester Williams. Mitchell as a back up is ok but would rather see him at DE.

According to ourlands opposing teams ran the ball against us 336 times. 68% of those runs were between the guards. Most in the NFL. We better find someone in the middle that can stop the run. Maybe a big guy like Jenkins is the answer. Hankins is the closest thing in the middle.

 

[steelbtexan]

If run blocking is that important at the WR position, then they should've moved Casey to WR. He's about as fast as Walter and a better blocker. They could've drafted a FB late in the draft.

 

[mussop]

If run blocking is that important at the WR position, then they should've moved Casey to WR. He's about as fast as Walter and a better blocker. They could've drafted a FB late in the draft.

They need to use him more or not resign him thats for sure. Hopefully we will draft a WR this year to replace Walter.

And hopefully we will draft a NT that can hold up against the run well yet still get consistent penetration.

 

[ObsiWan]

edit: Never mind

 

[steelbtexan]

They need to use him more or not resign him thats for sure. Hopefully we will draft a WR this year to replace Walter.

And hopefully we will draft a NT that can hold up against the run well yet still get consistent penetration.

This has never happened during the entire Kubiak regime.

Maybe BoB will make Gary address these needs. That seems to be the only way to get change within the Texans org.

 

[badboy]

According to ourlands opposing teams ran the ball against us 336 times. 68% of those runs were between the guards. Most in the NFL. We better find someone in the middle that can stop the run. Maybe a big guy like Jenkins is the answer. Hankins is the closest thing in the middle.

No to Jenkins. Hankins wears out quickly and relies too much on upper body strength rather than combining with his base. Jesse Williams if you want just a run stopper but probably cost you a first. Sylvester and Brandon do both and for a second round.

 

[Corrosion]

But but according to miss leading stats Mitchell is better and should start.

I think there is a possibility that the Texans do in fact start Mitchell this coming season and use ... Crick as his primary backup while not drafting a NT/DT with a significant pick.

 

[rmartin65]

I think there is a possibility that the Texans do in fact start Mitchell this coming season and use ... Crick as his primary backup while not drafting a NT/DT with a significant pick.

Ugh. That thought does not thrill me. I realize that the coaches and FO know a hell of a lot more than I do about football and their players, but still. My gut says this wont go over particularly well.

 

[steelbtexan]

I think there is a possibility that the Texans do in fact start Mitchell this coming season and use ... Crick as his primary backup while not drafting a NT/DT with a significant pick.

Which would be a mistake. This yrs crop of NT's is very good/deep. If nothing else they should pick one in rd 3-6 for depth purposes. If Mitchell were to get hurt and Crick became a full time starter at NT with no backup behingd him. All of the rest of the draft picks and improvements the Texans were to make would be for naught.

 

[Corrosion]

Ugh. That thought does not thrill me. I realize that the coaches and FO know a hell of a lot more than I do about football and their players, but still. My gut says this wont go over particularly well.

Which would be a mistake. This yrs crop of NT's is very good/deep. If nothing else they should pick one in rd 3-6 for depth purposes. If Mitchell were to get hurt and Crick became a full time starter at NT with no backup behingd him. All of the rest of the draft picks and improvements the Texans were to make would be for naught.

Not saying I agree with doing that .... Just that I could see it being an option especially because of the cap situation and holes elsewhere.

I'd prefer that they draft a NT/DT in the top three rounds ....while letting Cody walk.

 

[Lucky]

I think there is a possibility that the Texans do in fact start Mitchell this coming season and use ... Crick as his primary backup while not drafting a NT/DT with a significant pick.

Can Crick play NT? Are we sure Crick can play anything?

The Texans also have Terrell McClain and David Hunter under contract. Who knows what they think of them? I think they'll draft a NT, but who knows where? I don't see a high pick used on what will likely be a rotational player.

 

[Corrosion]

Can Crick play NT? Are we sure Crick can play anything?

The Texans also have Terrell McClain and David Hunter under contract. Who knows what they think of them? I think they'll draft a NT, but who knows where? I don't see a high pick used on what will likely be a rotational player.

I dont know that Crick can play NT .... Its just one of the "rumors" Ive heard and it wasnt something that was set in stone , just a "possibility" , an option they have ....

Obviously WR and OT are going to be positions they have to take care of one way ot another as Newton is coming off surgery , Harris is a FA and .... they have no one else on the roster with NFL experience.
They also have questionmarks at ILB , OLB and Safety .... all pending FA decisions of course.

If I were forced to draft today without having completed free agency , I'd be looking at WR , OT with the first two picks , ILB and NT with the two 3rd rounders.
Ideally I'd like to move back from that #27 spot and pick up an extra 3rd. I think there is value at WR from the middle of the first all the way to the bottom of the second , a lot of guy's who just didnt seperate themselves at the combine.

I'd be satisfied with a draft of with those first four selections
Justin Hunter
Terron Armstead (hell he may go in the first round).
A.J. Klein
Brandon Williams

 

[badboy]

Uh, oh..I am hearing that Texans are good with Mitchell starting at NT and would pick up either a cheap FA vet or DT 4th round or later (or both). Hard for me to accept that but if I take that as a fact then try to defend it, I'd say Mitchell did look much better at end of season. NTs are moving up boards and Texans may want to use top four picks for other positions. Also, Texans have not had a 'get to the passer' Nose and made it to playoffs. WR seems to be either a first or second and if Quin is not signed, a safety becomes a top 4 need.

Looks like bolded may be firming up. If McNair insists on WR, Barwin goes and we need an OLB high, Derek Newton's knee is worse than I hope, Nose may move way down list of priorities. Not even including where safety comes in if Quin leaves. Draft is deep on DBs but do we go for a starter fourth round or later?

 

[mussop]

Looks like bolded may be firming up. If McNair insists on WR, Barwin goes and we need an OLB high, Derek Newton's knee is worse than I hope, Nose may move way down list of priorities. Not even including where safety comes in if Quin leaves. Draft is deep on DBs but do we go for a starter fourth round or later?

You are making a lot of assumptions. Even if Mitchell does start we WILL bring in another NT and he will either be a free agent that will push him for the starting position or it will be a draft choice that is capable of being rotated with Mitchell.

My money is on Ryan Harris returning at T. If we lose Quin we will sign another FA safety.

 

[mussop]

I dont know that Crick can play NT .... Its just one of the "rumors" Ive heard and it wasnt something that was set in stone , just a "possibility" , an option they have ....

Obviously WR and OT are going to be positions they have to take care of one way ot another as Newton is coming off surgery , Harris is a FA and .... they have no one else on the roster with NFL experience.
They also have questionmarks at ILB , OLB and Safety .... all pending FA decisions of course.

If I were forced to draft today without having completed free agency , I'd be looking at WR , OT with the first two picks , ILB and NT with the two 3rd rounders.
Ideally I'd like to move back from that #27 spot and pick up an extra 3rd. I think there is value at WR from the middle of the first all the way to the bottom of the second , a lot of guy's who just didnt seperate themselves at the combine.

I'd be satisfied with a draft of with those first four selections
Justin Hunter
Terron Armstead (hell he may go in the first round).
A.J. Klein
Brandon Williams

I think alot of people are really under estimating Brandon Williams. If he last till our second pick he would be a great value. I don't see any way he last till our third pick.

 

[Wolf6151]

I think alot of people are really under estimating Brandon Williams. If he last till our second pick he would be a great value. I don't see any way he last till our third pick.

Brandon Williams is currently listed at #74 which puts him in the top half of the 3rd round. I think he belongs in the 3rd round and could/should be available to us at #89. That's where I have him in my latest mock. I just think a guy jumping from D2 to the NFL is a project player and will take some time to develop and belongs in the 3rd round. Of course it only takes 1 crazy GM to overvalue the guy and he'd be gone by our pick.

 

[badboy]

You are making a lot of assumptions. Even if Mitchell does start we WILL bring in another NT and he will either be a free agent that will push him for the starting position or it will be a draft choice that is capable of being rotated with Mitchell.

My money is on Ryan Harris returning at T. If we lose Quin we will sign another FA safety.

So no way Mitchell starts and is backed up by McClain or Hunter?

 

[badboy]

Brandon Williams is currently listed at #74 which puts him in the top half of the 3rd round. I think he belongs in the 3rd round and could/should be available to us at #89. That's where I have him in my latest mock. I just think a guy jumping from D2 to the NFL is a project player and will take some time to develop and belongs in the 3rd round. Of course it only takes 1 crazy GM to overvalue the guy and he'd be gone by our pick.

But what if he is gone? Who next? That's the problem.

 

[steelbtexan]

But what if he is gone? Who next? That's the problem.

You are looking at Spence,S.Williams,Jordan Hill,Bennie Logan.

This is why I would try to use a 4/6th and a 2014 4th rd pick. To move up and B.Williams.

 

[badboy]

You are looking at Spence,S.Williams,Jordan Hill,Bennie Logan.

This is why I would try to use a 4/6th and a 2014 4th rd pick. To move up and B.Williams.

Disagree on Sylvester he will be gone by our third imo. I think Mayock has him rated higher than Brandon and top 5 DTs.

 

[Corrosion]

You are looking at Spence,S.Williams,Jordan Hill,Bennie Logan.

This is why I would try to use a 4/6th and a 2014 4th rd pick. To move up and B.Williams.

If they lose Quin and Barwin in FA .... I dont think they can afford to give up picks totrade up. They already have holes at RT , ILB , WR and NT and now with Casey gone TE and FB .... Sure dont want to add OLB and Safety to that laundry list.

 

[mussop]

Brandon Williams is currently listed at #74 which puts him in the top half of the 3rd round. I think he belongs in the 3rd round and could/should be available to us at #89. That's where I have him in my latest mock. I just think a guy jumping from D2 to the NFL is a project player and will take some time to develop and belongs in the 3rd round. Of course it only takes 1 crazy GM to overvalue the guy and he'd be gone by our pick.

We'll see.

 

[mussop]

If they lose Quin and Barwin in FA .... I dont think they can afford to give up picks totrade up. They already have holes at RT , ILB , WR and NT and now with Casey gone TE and FB .... Sure dont want to add OLB and Safety to that laundry list.

Why? How much can you expect a fourth, fith or six round pick to contribute. Besides we will sign some free agents at some of those spots.

 

[Corrosion]

Why? How much can you expect a fourth, fith or six round pick to contribute. Besides we will sign some free agents at some of those spots.

(4th) Depends on the position how much I expect them to contribute - a spot like ILB , C , FB or SS .... I'd expect to contribute more than a 4th rounder at a premium position.

Those positions and you could include OG to that list dont get the same early attention as some other spots and the talent can be found in the mid rounds.

CB , QB , OT , WR , OLB , DE ... No I dont expect a lot of production from a 4th rounder early on.


If they lose Quin and Barwin .... thats three heavy contributors (including Walter) they have to relace not to mention a need at RT either in front of or behind Newton.
Then you have James and Dobbins to replace ....


Yes , they'll sign several FA's but most will be cheap .... more roster filler than anything else.

 

[mussop]

(4th) Depends on the position how much I expect them to contribute - a spot like ILB , C , FB or SS .... I'd expect to contribute more than a 4th rounder at a premium position.

Those positions and you could include OG to that list dont get the same early attention as some other spots and the talent can be found in the mid rounds.

CB , QB , OT , WR , OLB , DE ... No I dont expect a lot of production from a 4th rounder early on.


If they lose Quin and Barwin .... thats three heavy contributors (including Walter) they have to relace not to mention a need at RT either in front of or behind Newton.
Then you have James and Dobbins to replace ....


Yes , they'll sign several FA's but most will be cheap .... more roster filler than anything else.

That's usually what 5th, 6th and 7th round picks are if they even make the team. 4th rounders especially at the end of the round are iffy too.