jaayteetx
All Pro
What he said, do we really want a LB who is a liability in the pass game?
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What I am looking at, feedback appreciated
- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
What he said, do we really want a LB who is a liability in the pass game?
badboy
Hall of Fame
The only negative I heard from combine is his 40 at 4.82. If that drops him so it drops Minter at 4.81. "Did what scouts expected".
Video on Teo:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap2000000145212/A-Scout-s-Take-NFL-Scouting-Combine-Day-3
badboy
Hall of Fame
7 INTs?
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I don't really understand what this has to do with Minter, but I don't really like any of this ILB class at #27 for the Texans.
badboy
Hall of Fame
You said T'eo had a terrible combine. I responded that the only "terrible" or negative was his 40 time and it was almost exactly the same as Minter another highly rated ILB. I am going with an ILB lower rounds due to needs versus available players
Teo was over rated before the championship game. Now he is under rated. One game does not define a player. He is a late first round talent period.
His forty time might scare me for our team simply because Wade will put ILB's in man coverage against TE's often. Same goes for Minter. Still both have first round talent.
I'm still going DT first if any of my top five are still available. Looking for a 3 down ILB with speed to cover the faster TE's later. Kiko? We need depth at safety, OLB and a nickel back on defense.
I want another T, WR and even another TE on offense. I'm going BPA that fills a need. If Dysert is available in the third round I'm taking him.
His forty time might scare me for our team simply because Wade will put ILB's in man coverage against TE's often. Same goes for Minter. Still both have first round talent.
I'm still going DT first if any of my top five are still available. Looking for a 3 down ILB with speed to cover the faster TE's later. Kiko? We need depth at safety, OLB and a nickel back on defense.
I want another T, WR and even another TE on offense. I'm going BPA that fills a need. If Dysert is available in the third round I'm taking him.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I really don't think you'll see Minter in the 1st round either fwiw. Both didn't really do enough to show they could cover nfl te's this combine.
Besides having slower than expected 40s what else did they do or not do to give you that opinion?
I agree with this statement .... but not him being a late first rounder , I think he's a late second to mid third as ILB's just dont have the value of skill positions or those that get after or protect the QB unless they have an elite skill to bring to the table - He really doesnt have a skill that sets him apart.
I wouldnt take Teo until the 3rd .... I'd rather have one of the DT/NT's and a WR with those first two picks (in no particular order) .... of which there are many to pick from in the first couple rounds and then take a look at Nico Johnson or AJ Klien in rounds 3 and 4 respectively or maybe even Oklahoma's Tom Wort later in the draft.
badboy
Hall of Fame
what are the odds Texans trade out of first to top 8 in second?
b0ng
Bad Hombre
When I watched both of these guys play they reminded me of Rey Malaluga. Surrounded by superior talent and got to rack up a bunch of stats because they had awesome talent in front of them.
Hard as hell to nail down at this point.
Really depends on what players are available and what teams like player X enough to move up.
I definately wouldnt be against a move back to the top 8-10 of round two because I think those positions most believe the Texans would be targeting have value well beyond that point. (Jenkins or Short) (DeAndre Hopkins or Da'Rick Rogers)
Also depends on what the compensation for the swap would be other than that #2. Future first ? additional picks in this draft ?!
The way Teo is going in this Combine, he might end up being available for our second-round pic and I'm not exaggerating ? His 40 time @ 4.8+ is very unimpressive, and his overall athleticism is average. And at 240 he's also smaller than advertised and with all of this baggage with this internet controversy on the imaginary girlfriend, who needs the drama ? Well but wait, he did go to ND so for the fighting Irish fans he's still got that going for him.
tru80texan
Waterboy
Without a doubt Teo's combine has disappointed, but I think its being blown out of proportion a bit as it seems some want to see him fail & are highlighting his every shortcoming now. For example, his 4.8 40 is not that far off from the 4.75 many predicted he would do. A difference but not one of huge proportions imo. He was predicted as 1st round talent based on his game tape as were others such as Minter & Demontre Moore & yet we are hearing very little about Minter's 4.8 40 or Moore's 4.9 40 coupled w/ his lackluster 12 reps of 225lbs. Moore was predicted to be a top 15 pick by some as a DE or OLB in the 3-4 & those numbers are just pathetic imo. Other players who were once deemed 1st rounders are coming up short at the combine just as Teo & its not being given near the attention. Teo may not be 1st round talent & he may have been overrated, but he's hardly the only one when its all said & done.
With this much yak going on about Te'o, there's no doubt in my mind he will be the Houston Texans selection at 27. Just one more reason for this fan base to pile it on.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Example: a swap with KC #27 for their 2nd and 4th. I'd be all over that and Chiefs need a lot. I'd use that 4th and our 3rd & 5th to get another high second. Da'Rick Rogers, Brandon Williams and probably an OLB as I think Barwin is gone.
I'd jump at the opportunity at three #2's in this draft.
You like Brandon Williams over the other DT prospects : Jenkins , Short , Hankins and Jesse Williams ? Or is that because you think the others are gone ?
I really like Jenkins in the middle of a 3-4. He also played against the very best competition playing in the SEC. That Georgia defense game Alabama all it could handle with Jenkins being a big part of that .... and thats about as close to NFL competition as it gets. (No one game does not a player make).
tru80texan
Waterboy
My issue w/ Jenkins is his motor, which seems to be listed by many as one of his cons. Watching him at the Senior Bowl practices he seemed to give up or go thru the motions if he didn't get penetration on his intial burst off of the line. He was nuetralized by more then one o-lineman during their 1 on 1 drills. His size will be rendered useless if he doesn't have a motor,imo, which kinda reminds me of Frank Okam. I love his size, but his motor is a huge concern to me. That being said, I kinda do prefer B Williams, J Williams, & Hankins over Jenkins. I left Short off because of his weight(299lbs). My hope is the Texans can finally get a big body to fill that middle instead of the lighter guys Wade is accustomed to using.
And didn't Georgia give up over 300 rushing yards to Bama? Bama ran all over them.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Since the new CBA changing rookie contract, negligible cost in trading up for a team; two firsts or three seconds, etc. Hankins is gone.
I have yet to see a game that Brandon Williams disappointed me. Not so with the others especially Jenkins. I am pretty hard to sway from my opinion and he just looks slow and fat. He admits to 370 during championship game although he has reduced to 346, I just see him as having future weight issues. Just the opposite with Sylvester Williams who trimmed to 313 and continually seems to get better. I was an early fan and mocked Jesse Williams when others were saying he'd be third round at best. As I continued to watch him in 2012, he just seemed to be "there" but did little. He serves my main goal of a Nose by filling the hole but almost never puts his hands up in passing lanes. I came to realize he just lacks good laterals and he is not as efficient as I want in getting ball carrier to the ground. Expect him to be gone.
Short: this one has tied me up in more debates with his fans who insist he can do well at NT vs DT. I say no but would be cautiously optimistic. He definitely has motor.
Mayock has Sylvester rated top 5 & Brandon not listed but I know what I want. I will be putting out my post combine soon and Da'Rick Rogers will be first and Brandon second selected (preferably after a trade from #27). Those are my guys and I'm not concerned with any claims of "reaching".
You want to move down 7 spots, out of the first, & all it's going to cost them is a 4th round pick? Does the math work out for this? It doesn't sound good to me.
Edit
Our 27 is worth 680 pts. Their 2nd is worth 560 their 4th is worth 108. We're giving up 680 pts for their 668 pts.
I'd like another 2nd rounder & the 2nd pick of the second is attractive, but I'd think they'd have to sweeten it a bit to make it worth our wild..... we're giving up a first round pick.
Edit Edit if they throw in their 5th (43 pts) that would up their side to 711. their 711 for my 680 looks a lot better if we're getting out of the first all together.
Last edited:
badboy
Hall of Fame
Look at the trade as the # 27 for the #33 + a 4th. Ask for another low rounder but DO NOT hold up a deal for 32 points. Same players I want should be avail #33 + I get either another decent pick in high 4th or in my dream scenario I bundle our 3rd, 4th from KC and a 5th for a high second round.
Remember those points are only good if the other team agrees.
I understand. But, I would think the Chiefs would be wanting to trade into the first more than we would want to trade out, meaning the trade should be favorable to us. Value wise, I'm not seeing #34 & #98 passing the red face test.
I'd rather this year's 2nd & next year's 2nd (which should value like this year's 3rd).
Even if all the top DT's are gone , which I dont think is likely (we've talked about at least 5 different players at 27 not including the top 2) as there are quite a few with 1st round talent in this draft I'd be Ok with a move back as you still have several needs to fill , maybe one of the ILB's falls to you or a guy like Amerson who can play CB/FS and you still have WR to fill.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Uh, oh..I am hearing that Texans are good with Mitchell starting at NT and would pick up either a cheap FA vet or DT 4th round or later (or both). Hard for me to accept that but if I take that as a fact then try to defend it, I'd say Mitchell did look much better at end of season. NTs are moving up boards and Texans may want to use top four picks for other positions. Also, Texans have not had a 'get to the passer' Nose and made it to playoffs. WR seems to be either a first or second and if Quin is not signed, a safety becomes a top 4 need.
badboy
Hall of Fame
No have not listened to McClain in quite some time. Really hard to define, just reading through comments by McNair, Smith, Kubiak and Phillips. Watching how the team is responding or not to player situations, etc. A few comments I do not want to address at this time. Sure hope I am wrong.Let me guess, McLaim?
skenney_11
Practice Squad
gulp
Let me guess, McLaim?
As many picks & FAs we've brought in to play DE or DT or OLB, compared to the number of NTs we've brought in makes me believe NT is not high on the Texans list of wants.
I understand & agree that we need "better" more "traditional" play from the position, but the Texans appear to be getting what they want from the guys they've got. I don't understand it. I've been trying to make sense of it, but have come up short.
But I would be surprised if we take a NT early in this draft. AAMoF, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of Crick at NT with Jamison returning.
I've been getting this feeling as well through things I've heard and read, nothing specific, but just putting 2 and 2 together. I sure hope we're wrong. Mitchell did play well toward the end of last season but it's not enough to hang your hat on and say he's a day 1 starter. Also this is a very deep DT class with some very good quality in the early rounds as well and the Texans would be fools to not take advantage of what the draft gives you. I think WR and NT are the 2 biggest needs even if we do lose Quin to FA. I think Safety/CB then becomes a 3rd round need.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Start a rookie at Nose, ILB and safety?
tru80texan
Waterboy
Doubtful at all 3, but I could see 2 of the 3. I've mentioned in the past that I dont think the Texans will select NT or RT w/ the 1st pick. I can't see them giving up on Newton to go w/ a rookie after just 1 season. It takes Kubiak a bit longer then most to learn a lesson or figure out something isn't working out. That's why Marciano is still on the staff, why McNair had to hire Wade, & why they are finally looking at getting a decent wr to replace Walter. I do agree 1 year doesn't tell the tale on Newton, but there doesn't seem to be much of a backup plan if he continues to struggle.
As far as Mitchell, Wade likes the smaller NT's & if he insisted on starting Cody, who was virtually ineffective, why wouldn't we believe that he wouldn't be statisfied w/ starting Mitchell who, IMO, has more to offer then Cody. They may draft someone late to backup Mitchell & rotate w/ him, but I don't see a 1st round pick on the position in the cards. The owner has spoken & I expect them to listen w/ it either being a WR, LB, & now possibly a S if Quin is allowed to walk.
tru80texan
Waterboy
I agree that NT doesn't seem to be high on their list, but unless Crick gains 10-15lbs i can't see him being used at NT considering his current weight is listed at the mid 280's. At that weight he's a DE. Unless of course you are referring to those mystery sites that listed Antonio at 295lbs & they too have Crick as weighing more. JK
Unless of course you are referring to those mystery sites that listed Antonio at 295lbs & they too have Crick as weighing more. JK
What were his other options?
Thats about as far from the truth as you can get .... He's said on multiple occasions that he would like to have a big ugly nasty SOB in the middle but he can make do without that guy.
Just take a look at some of the guy's he has had elsewhere .... Some big , some not.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am sure most have John Jenkins rated higher than me; I know CBS does at high second round. I do not want him for Texans, period. Looking back over my evaluations of him during the season, he just did not appear to be a factor. This from Mayock:
NFL Network's Mike Mayock called Georgia NT John Jenkins' hot-and-cold motor the biggest concern for Jenkins' NFL outlook."When he's healthy, when he's not winded, when he turns that motor on, it's special," Mayock said. "And you want him to be your 3-4 nose tackle or your nose shade in the 4-3. You want this kid as a two-gapping run stuffer. You want him pushing the pocket. But too often, you don't see that." Motor is often a concern for mammoth defensive linemen. Jenkins weighed in at an unruly 6-foot-3 7/8 and 359 pounds this week. Jan 24 - 3:18 PM
76 I do know others rated him high after senior bowl and I evaluated as "FAT, SLOW". I guess if you can convince the opponent to run the play at him, he would be ok. He will go higher but I rate him just above Montori Hughes (skills- not head) in 4th. Another issue is his weight. IIRC, he blossomed up to 370 before dieting. I hope Prisco is correct and he goes #17 and pushes someone down.
Somebody will pick Jenkins in the late 1st early 2nd. I hope it's not the Texans. Jenkins failure to hold up against the run vs Alabama make him a late 2nd/early 3rd if I were drafting.
I guess playing at 370 lbs against Alabama didn't help, but I thought the rest of the line and the LBs were doing worse.
He still got plenty of production out of that game though; 3 tackles (including a sack), 3 assists, and a QB pressure. That's a lot for a big guy.
And he played something like 55, 56 snaps at that weight; not that I prefer it (the weigh) but it's still noteworthy that he showed some quickness even at that weight, too.
I think I'm putting him somewhere in the mid second round.
He checked in at 356 something at the Senior Bowl and looked pretty good.
Could be a boom or bust here, I think.
If he can manage his weight, I think he'll be quite good; if not, well, we all know what it means.
How did he handle the drills at the combine?
When is his pro day? Late this month?
I think I'll wait until then to finalize my take on him.
He still got plenty of production out of that game though; 3 tackles (including a sack), 3 assists, and a QB pressure. That's a lot for a big guy.
And he played something like 55, 56 snaps at that weight; not that I prefer it (the weigh) but it's still noteworthy that he showed some quickness even at that weight, too.
I think I'm putting him somewhere in the mid second round.
He checked in at 356 something at the Senior Bowl and looked pretty good.
Could be a boom or bust here, I think.
If he can manage his weight, I think he'll be quite good; if not, well, we all know what it means.
How did he handle the drills at the combine?
When is his pro day? Late this month?
I think I'll wait until then to finalize my take on him.
tru80texan
Waterboy
Mitchell maybe...let's not act as if Cody was a dominant force that couldn't easily be replaced. Wade has ultimately decided not to have other options & decided Cody & Mitchell were adequate as many of us have hoped for better alternatives since Wade has arrived.
And that's exactly what he has done since roughly 2000. His biggest guy was Tank Johnson in Arlington & he weighed around 315lbs. It's been said on multiple occasions by multiple sources that Wade operates w/ the smaller NT's. That seems to be the case for a little over a decade now. I'm sure we can go back 20+ years & find examples that prove your case, BUT Wade's RECENT actions, a decade or less, have shown him to fill his NT position w/ the smaller 300-315lb players as opposed to the 330-360lb monsters some of us have desired.
tru80texan
Waterboy
I am not a Jenkins fan. He lacks a motor in the worst way & showed it during Senior Bowl practices. He had a few shining moments, but if he wasnt shining he wasn't working at all. I hope he's not on the Texans radar.
Cody has been nothing but average. Still he is better than Mitchell. Weade has "decided" not to have other options? How do you know what options Wade has had to choose from? I can only see three.
1.) Cody is a FA and injured. So Wade can go into next season starting a guy who couldn't beat out a very average Cody with hope we pick up a decent rotation player later in the draft or a cheap one in FA. We don't have the money to get a quality one.
2.) Or we can draft a good DT in a deep draft for DT's that can push Mitchell early and get significant minutes and eventually (hopefully sooner than later), take over the starting job and put Mitchell back to second string where he belongs.
3.) See if we can talk a really good veteran (Seymour) to come in and play for cheap for a chance at a championship.
If Wade chooses number one we are going to be taking a step backwards.
tru80texan
Waterboy
Here are some stats from 2012 to ponder:
Mitchell. Cody
Tackles- 31. Tackles- 17
Passes defended-3. Passes defended-2
Forced Fumbles-1. Forced fumbles-0
Games Started- 3. Games Started- 12
Let's see...now which player looks better of the 2.
I think it's pretty obvious Mitchell was the better player despite starting 9 less games. Just because one player isn't starting because they so-called couldn't beat "a very average player" doesn't necessarily mean the best player was on the field IMO. I think Walter is a good example of that as well, so it's not unheard of that a lesser player is named a starter when there are other options who could possibly be better but not necessarily given the opportunity. Cody obviously did less w/ more opportunity & Cody is by far anything, but "average". I think you are using that term very loosely in describing Cody's play. "Mediocre" would probably be a better term for Cody as his backup outperformed him.
How you can claim Cody was better then Mitchell based on the stats is beyond me & quite laughable to be honest. Mitchell is still very young & has shown improvement & yet some how you feel the Texans could be better equipped w/ Cody manning the middle & act as if the Texans are doomed if it's Mitchell ,because he nothing but a backup by your assessment, in the middle despite him outproducing Cody. How can you honestly say a position is taking a step back by finally inserting the player that actually produced more is a bit backwards in the thought process IMO, but to each their own.
I personally feel better w/ Mitchell in the middle, but I will miss Cody's "On the Nose" episodes.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Not speaking for Mussop but I think NT is one of those positions that you lean lightly on stats and heavy on watching the plays. IMO, Cody was better than Mitchell even with his back problems until late in season. I think Cody just wore down & was not able to handle too much more pain killer. Question is will Mitchell maintain and improve in '13 what we saw in last few games? We either need a very good NT or an outstanding ILB. Neither will be drafted in first and maybe not second rounds.Here are some stats from 2012 to ponder:
Mitchell. Cody
Tackles- 31. Tackles- 17
Passes defended-3. Passes defended-2
Forced Fumbles-1. Forced fumbles-0
Games Started- 3. Games Started- 12
Let's see...now which player looks better of the 2.
I think it's pretty obvious Mitchell was the better player despite starting 9 less games. Just because one player isn't starting because they so-called couldn't beat "a very average player" doesn't necessarily mean the best player was on the field IMO. I think Walter is a good example of that as well, so it's not unheard of that a lesser player is named a starter when there are other options who could possibly be better but not necessarily given the opportunity. Cody obviously did less w/ more opportunity & Cody is by far anything, but "average". I think you are using that term very loosely in describing Cody's play. "Mediocre" would probably be a better term for Cody as his backup outperformed him.
How you can claim Cody was better then Mitchell based on the stats is beyond me & quite laughable to be honest. Mitchell is still very young & has shown improvement & yet some how you feel the Texans could be better equipped w/ Cody manning the middle & act as if the Texans are doomed if it's Mitchell ,because he nothing but a backup by your assessment, in the middle despite him outproducing Cody. How can you honestly say a position is taking a step back by finally inserting the player that actually produced more is a bit backwards in the thought process IMO, but to each their own.
I personally feel better w/ Mitchell in the middle, but I will miss Cody's "On the Nose" episodes.
tru80texan
Waterboy
I actually see this in quite the opposite light. NT is position that is normally tougher to accumulate stats & thus one that is capable of compiling some decent numbers has really done some work fighting on the inside. Mitchell produced the most of the 2 having less playing time. Plain & simple. There were slim to no games that I thought Cody absolutely stood out & was heads & tails above Mitchell & the numbers seem to support that. Now I also knew the injury excuse would rear it's ugly head for Cody, but Mitchell slightly outperformed Cody in 2011 as well, which was only Mitchell's 2nd season. For the last 2 seasons Mitchell has out performed Cody in limited action. Cody has never been a real force & whether he wore down or not is subjective because to be honest Cody's production has been limited for quite some time regardless of his health status, so how would we judge his disappearing act in 2012 when it is all to similar to his performances of years past.
As I said before, I don't think Cody was necessarily the better option. Mitchell has shown improvement though out the years & it will be hard to convince most that the player w/ less playing time & better stats is the worst of the 2 options. I also have a hard time believing that this position will suffer from the statistically better player finally getting the opportunity to play more & thus potentially produce more. That thought process simply doesn't make sense imo. Even if you somehow based your opinion off of what you watched only...it still doesn't say Cody was the better of the 2 IMO. I too watch games, some multiple times, & simply haven't seen Cody as ever being an irreplaceable force in the middle...in fact it always been quite the opposite.
It depends on what you want. Mitchell penetrated the line & got off blocks better, which you would think we want. Cody held his ground better, & didn't get pushed around as easily. Which I think bottle necked run plays & freed up the ILBs.