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Welcome to Houston Tyrann Mathieu

Mollywhopper

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Staff member
We live in a society with a 24 hour news cycle, think about how many GIANT HUGE THINGS THAT WE WILL NEVER EVER EVER FORGET BECAUSE THEY ARE SO CRAZY, then a couple days later everyone moves on and it's never mentioned again. I know they discussed it on GMFB, and some ESPN shows but I'm not shocked if you missed it because like I said 1 day they are ranting about how horrible something is, and the next they don't seem to care or even remember
Sh*tstorm, huh?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
really is that why he routinely skipped practices and meetings? I get being disgruntled with your coach or your organization but you don't quit on your team. His work ethic was great, but he has since lost that mentality. There has been a change in AB from who he use to be to who he is now, and it wasn't for the better.
AB's productivity each season doesn't look like he quit on his team. Be real, if Watt or Hop didn't come to practice but had seasons as they have in past, sit out please! I don't see harmful change but would agree he may be a diva.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Do you find it odd that AB only wanted out after he threw a fit when his teammates voted JuJu the team's MVP this year over him?

Bell didn't want out until it became clear Pitt wasn't going to give him the long term contract that he wanted, he was totally fine staying in Pittsburgh as long as they paid him what he felt he is worth. Tomlin has nothing to do with him wanting to leave, if they paid him he would have been more than happy to sign the contract and end his career under Tomlin.

Honestly if AB couldn't handle losing a popularity contest to JuJu, and having to share targets with another legit WR what do you think he would do here when he would be playing second fiddle to Hopkins?
I don't agree with bold as my info says he wanted more guaranteed. Ian Rappaport reported 5 year $70 with thirty in first two years but neither guaranteed. Then there was his alleged fear of returning only to be traded to another team perhaps Eagles.
Bell privately eyed a return before the Week 8 matchup with the Cleveland Browns, a few weeks earlier than his original plan.

But a story with seemingly endless twists and turns started to get re-tangled. Bell told at least one person in his circle he was concerned about a trade, prompting him to stay away beyond the Oct. 30 trade deadline.
http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/29309/the-30-month-leveon-bell-contract-saga-how-we-got-here

Then there was deal reported by PFT's Mike FLorio of a 3 year $40 million with roster bonus of $10 m. Don't know what the bases would have been, but not much different than the other.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
I would argue that if a HC loses his team some of the other 52 have quit. Maybe not as publicly but some quit.

Trading for AB would be a risk. But I am a risk taker who believes in putting the best players possible on the field. Gaine could add both of the Brown's and still have 40-45 mil in cap space. Sometimes you've got to take risks, the unwillingness to take risks has been this franchises greatest fault since it's inception. Cal allowing Gaine to trade for AB would be his signature move for the franchise a d she g Al a new philosophy.
I think now is the time to take chances. Be bold while we have Watson on a rookie contract. I would love to see us go after Brown and Bell. I’ll tell you another move I would make that will send the crowd here into a frenzy. If Jeffrey Simmons falls to our pick #23 I would draft him without hesitation.

If there is an OT or a CB I can’t pass up and Simmons fall into round two I would trade next years first to draft him. Watts not going to be around forever, clowney with his medical and contract situation and blackson, Covington, Dunn as UFA and Heath as a RFA. Well DL could be a problem real soon.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Why doesn't that sh*tstorm happen every time a black coach gets the axe then?
It does. Steven A. Smith loses his **** every time it happens practically. He works for literally every show on the network practically and rants on every one of them. There is no way you watch those shows regularly if you haven't ever heard them go on and on when a few of them have been fired. The only one I ever heard him actually go after and say should be canned was Marvin Lewis.
 

Texas Jake

Rookie
This is fair.

Just remember the starting CB's on the Rams SB team this year.
I would be okay with signing him as a FA and paying the $, but I am not for giving up high draft picks for him. The high draft picks are too valuable in my eyes—the ability to bring in premium talent with longevity at a bargain price. I would consider a trade involving Clowney (because he is a potential medical ticking time bomb), especially if it was AB + draft pick(s) for Clowney.
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
I don't agree with bold as my info says he wanted more guaranteed. Ian Rappaport reported 5 year $70 with thirty in first two years but neither guaranteed. Then there was his alleged fear of returning only to be traded to another team perhaps Eagles. http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/29309/the-30-month-leveon-bell-contract-saga-how-we-got-here

Then there was deal reported by PFT's Mike FLorio of a 3 year $40 million with roster bonus of $10 m. Don't know what the bases would have been, but not much different than the other.
So what are you disagreeing with? I didn't say Pitt was against paying him, they just weren't going to give him the contract he wanted. He wanted more in guarantees then they were willing to give. He wanted to reset the RB market, him wanting out of Pitt had nothing to do with Tomlin and everything to do with money
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I would be okay with signing him as a FA and paying the $, but I am not for giving up high draft picks for him. The high draft picks are too valuable in my eyes—the ability to bring in premium talent with longevity at a bargain price. I would consider a trade involving Clowney (because he is a potential medical ticking time bomb), especially if it was AB + draft pick(s) for Clowney.
If trading a couple of 2nd Rd draft picks to get the best wr in the NFL for the next three years is the cost. That's a small price to pay.

If anything thing the former GM's tenure should tell us draft picks are far from a sure thing.

Look at how the Rams/Pat's were built. Draft/FA/Trades.

Gotta strike while Watson is on his rookie contact.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
If trading a couple of 2nd Rd draft picks to get the best wr in the NFL for the next three years is the cost. That's a small price to pay.

If anything thing the former GM's tenure should tell us draft picks are far from a sure thing.

Look at how the Rams/Pat's were built. Draft/FA/Trades.

Gotta strike while Watson is on his rookie contact.
Damn the torpedo's full speed ahead? Until next year comes around...
 

Texas Jake

Rookie
If trading a couple of 2nd Rd draft picks to get the best wr in the NFL for the next three years is the cost. That's a small price to pay.

If anything thing the former GM's tenure should tell us draft picks are far from a sure thing.

Look at how the Rams/Pat's were built. Draft/FA/Trades.

Gotta strike while Watson is on his rookie contact.
The problem I have with it is age and the questions about his attitude. If it was just one of those two issues, I would be more open to trading high draft picks. His age is a big concern. WRs typically have a big dropoff going into their thirties. The question is when is time going to catch up to AB. I would hate to part with multiple high draft picks and have time (or injury) catch up to him on the front end of those three years.
 
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steelbtexan

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The problem I have with it is age and the questions about his attitude. If it was just one of those two issues, I would be more open to trading high draft picks. His age is a big concern. WRs typically have a big dropoff going into their thirties. The question is when is time going to catch up to AB. I would hate to part with multiple high draft picks and have time (or injury) catch up to him on the front end of those three years.
AB is one of the hardest workers in the NFL. He keeps himself in great shape and should age well. It's only 3 years.

Attitude is a valid concern, but getting out of Pittsburgh hopefully will bring AB peace. This is the risk.

I know if I watched Tomlin get outcoached by BB every year and I realized that I won't win a SB, I would want out too.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
You've got Watson on his rookie contract for 2 more years.
And then? Cap hell again the way some of ya'll talking. Would much rather spend that 12-14 Mill on a top of the class CB or edge guy than on a WR2 that is going to be pissed that he is not getting 65% of the targets. Jeez, Texans have so many holes now, can't afford to mask multiple to pay for depth. AB is nails when he wants to be, but he isn't gonna play second fiddle
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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And then? Cap hell again the way some of ya'll talking. Would much rather spend that 12-14 Mill on a top of the class CB or edge guy than on a WR2 that is going to be pisses that he is not getting 65% of the targets. Jeez, Texans have so many holes now, can't afford to mask multiple to pay for depth. AB is nails when he wants to be, but he isn't gonna play second fiddle
1st of all you don't know how AB will react to playing with Watson/Hopkins. We know he's friends with Mathieu. I'm betting that AB's problem was with Tomlin/Ben and he would be different with the Texans. There have been many other examples of this See: Moss trade to New England.

2nd AB is only under contract for 3more years and the last year when you have to re-sign Watson, AB's contract is a very reasonable 12.5 mil. KJo's contract is 9 mil this season for gods sake. Plus with the cap going up every year AB's contract won't be the killer you think it will be.

Depth will come in the form of the draft, cheap fa's. They can still fix the ik in fa if they trade a2 ND rhis yr and the xB position too. If losing a 2020 2nd cauaes them not to be able to add sufficient depth then Cal should fire Gaine immediately
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
1st of all you don't know how AB will react to playing with Watson/Hopkins. We know he's friends with Mathieu. I'm betting that AB's problem was with Tomlin/Ben and he would be different with the Texans. There have been many other examples of this See: Moss trade to New England.

2nd AB is only under contract for 3more years and the last year when you have to re-sign Watson, AB's contract is a very reasonable 12.5 mil. KJo's contract is 9 mil this season for gods sake. Plus with the cap going up every year AB's contract won't be the killer you think it will be.
Ok, I surely hope that BG is smarter than you appear to be
 

steelbtexan

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Ok, I surely hope that BG is smarter than you appear to be
He is

Adding the best WR in the NFL is a bad thing?

Especially when you can afford AB and a LT plus Tagging Clowney.

When has adding the most talented players in the NFL a bad thing? Only on TT looking out for the McNair's $$$.
 
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ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
AB is one of the hardest workers in the NFL. He keeps himself in great shape and should age well. It's only 3 years.

Attitude is a valid concern, but getting out of Pittsburgh hopefully will bring AB peace. This is the risk.

I know if I watched Tomlin get outcoached by BB every year and I realized that I won't win a SB, I would want out too.
If getting out-coached by Belichick is AB's deal-breaker, then with O'Brien being 0-5 against BB, there's no way Brown would want to come here.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If getting out-coached by Belichick is AB's deal-breaker, then with O'Brien being 0-5 against BB, there's no way Brown would want to come here.
Agreed,

But there's a big difference in the talent level BOB has had to work with over the last 5 years compared to the talent level Tonlin has had to work with. Hopefully the new gm rectifies this
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
So what are you disagreeing with? I didn't say Pitt was against paying him, they just weren't going to give him the contract he wanted. He wanted more in guarantees then they were willing to give. He wanted to reset the RB market, him wanting out of Pitt had nothing to do with Tomlin and everything to do with money
Your post clearly says he didn't get long term deal he wanted mentioning nothing about guaranteed money. If you meant the guarantee I apologize. I don't think he cared about resetting RB market as he sees himself as more than a great running back. Anyway, don't mean to nit pick so onward.
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
Your post clearly says he didn't get long term deal he wanted mentioning nothing about guaranteed money. If you meant the guarantee I apologize. I don't think he cared about resetting RB market as he sees himself as more than a great running back. Anyway, don't mean to nit pick so onward.
I guess I should have just said deal he wanted, and left out the long term part lol. At least the rumor was he wanted to reset the RB market I have no clue how true it is just remember the talking heads saying it
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
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There have been many other examples of this See: Moss trade to New England.
Not arguing your point, but Moss to New England may not have happened had he not been humbled in Oakland.

AB may need some humbling before he's ready to "work out" I'm all about bringing AB here to be what we hoped WF would be. But money has to be right. I'm not saying you're saying to get him at all costs, but the "cap hell in a couple of years ain't a big deal" vibe I'm getting ain't going to work.
 

thunderkyss

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Agreed,

But there's a big difference in the talent level BOB has had to work with over the last 5 years compared to the talent level Tonlin has had to work with. Hopefully the new gm rectifies this
In your opinion, is there any coach BO'b has consistently outcoached that Tomlin has not?

Are you confident BO'b is a good coach because you've seen something? Or are you promoting confidence because you know we have no choice for the next couple of years?
 

steelbtexan

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In your opinion, is there any coach BO'b has consistently outcoached that Tomlin has not?

Are you confident BO'b is a good coach because you've seen something? Or are you promoting confidence because you know we have no choice for the next couple of years?
Tomlin has nothing to do with BOB.

For the record, I dont know if BOB is a good HC or not, IMHO his hands were tied by the incompetence that was spread thoughout the Texans org. Hopefully that has changed. I also know BOB won 11 games last yr with talent that was inferior to what Tomlin had on the Steelers.
 

steelbtexan

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Not arguing your point, but Moss to New England may not have happened had he not been humbled in Oakland.

AB may need some humbling before he's ready to "work out" I'm all about bringing AB here to be what we hoped WF would be. But money has to be right. I'm not saying you're saying to get him at all costs, but the "cap hell in a couple of years ain't a big deal" vibe I'm getting ain't going to work.
Moss was humbled in Oakland? LOL

Moss has never been humble a day in his life. It comes from his upbringing in Rand West Va.

I'm sure AB has had similar experiences in his past.

There's a great 30-30 piece on Moss.
 

thunderkyss

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Tomlin has nothing to do with BOB.

For the record, I dont know if BOB is a good HC or not, IMHO his hands were tied by the incompetence that was spread thoughout the Texans org. Hopefully that has changed. I also know BOB won 11 games last yr with talent that was inferior to what Tomlin had on the Steelers.
Got it. Tomlin has nothing to do with BO'b. Yet you follow up by juxtaposing Tomlin & BO'b again.
 

steelbtexan

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Got it. Tomlin has nothing to do with BO'b. Yet you follow up by juxtaposing Tomlin & BO'b again.
I was just pointing out the difference in the talent level between the 2 teams and their records. Do you disagree that there's more talent on the Steelers than on the Texans?
 

thunderkyss

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I was just pointing out the difference in the talent level between the 2 teams and their records. Do you disagree that there's more talent on the Steelers than on the Texans?
I agree Tomlin did a better job putting his better talent on the field.

Hard to compare the talent between the two teams when BO'b kept better talent on the bench.

Do you agree BO'b haf better talent he could have played but chose not to?
 

steelbtexan

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I agree Tomlin did a better job putting his better talent on the field.

Hard to compare the talent between the two teams when BO'b kept better talent on the bench.

Do you agree BO'b haf better talent he could have played but chose not to?
I know he won 11 games with subpar talent at key positions.

Quit what your doing and answer the question instead of playing games. Tell me which roster do you think is more talented. Look at the rosters before answering and please dont post another rabbit hole answer.

Yes or NO
 

thunderkyss

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I know he won 11 games with subpar talent at key positions.

Quit what your doing and answer the question instead of playing games. Tell me which roster do you think is more talented. Look at the rosters before answering and please dont post another rabbit hole answer.

Yes or NO
I'm not going to let you continue to change the subject & avoid the original question. In the last 5 years, is there a coach that BO'b has outcoached?
 

steelbtexan

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I'm not going to let you continue to change the subject & avoid the original question. In the last 5 years, is there a coach that BO'b has outcoached?
Tell you what, you answer the question and I will too.

Last yr would be a great example. Reich/Garrett/Joseph/Williams off of the top of my head. Because the talent level of the teams I listed was as good or better than the Texans talent level.

You're up and answer the question I asked you without all of the beating around the bush.
 

steelbtexan

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Tell you what, you answer the question and I will too.

Last yr would be a great example. Reich/Garrett/Joseph/Williams off of the top of my head. Because the talent level of the teams I listed was as good or better than the Texans talent level.

You're up and answer the question I asked you without all of the beating around the bush.
Crickets !!!!
 

thunderkyss

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Last yr would be a great example. Reich/Garrett/Joseph/Williams off of the top of my head. Because the talent level of the teams I listed was as good or better than the Texans talent level.
So because we won you believe BO'b outcoached those coaches. I see where you are now. Don't worry, I will never address you again concerning BO'b the coach. You either don't want to see or are incapable of seeing. Either way, can't have a conversation with you.
You're up and answer the question I asked you without all of the beating around the bush.
I answered as completely & honestly as I could. You are blind to what a coach is supposed to do in regards to talent.
I honestly believe we were as talented as the Steelers in 2018, but we suffered from a coach who did not put our best talent on the field. Defensively shouldn't be a question, with all the talent Rick stacked the defense with, with Brian Gaine fixing the Safety position with HB & Ried... we're as talented as Pittsburgh.
Offensively Watson/Roethlisberger, Hopkins/Brown, Connor/Miller...
Our best TEs on the bench, our best Guard on the bench being groomed for a Tackle, our best Center on the bench, no idea what to do with D.Thomas, can't get Carter consistently involved, can't design a pass to a RB.
So, without beating around the Bush, I plainly say yes, we were as talented as the Steelers in 2018.
 

steelbtexan

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So because we won you believe BO'b outcoached those coaches. I see where you are now. Don't worry, I will never address you again concerning BO'b the coach. You either don't want to see or are incapable of seeing. Either way, can't have a conversation with you.

I answered as completely & honestly as I could. You are blind to what a coach is supposed to do in regards to talent.
I honestly believe we were as talented as the Steelers in 2018, but we suffered from a coach who did not put our best talent on the field. Defensively shouldn't be a question, with all the talent Rick stacked the defense with, with Brian Gaine fixing the Safety position with HB & Ried... we're as talented as Pittsburgh.
Offensively Watson/Roethlisberger, Hopkins/Brown, Connor/Miller...
Our best TEs on the bench, our best Guard on the bench being groomed for a Tackle, our best Center on the bench, no idea what to do with D.Thomas, can't get Carter consistently involved, can't design a pass to a RB.
So, without beating around the Bush, I plainly say yes, we were as talented as the Steelers in 2018.

Actually the fact that you think the Texans are as talented as the Steelers means we are never going to agree and no winning isn't the only thing that defines a HC but it comes down to winning or the HC's gone. I would also say he also outcoached Pederson's SB winning Eagles, since he was down to his 4th/5th string WR's and missing his top 3 CB 's and still his team a had great chance to win that game but the defense couldn't hold up due to RAC and injuries.

What games would you say he was outcoached in? I will give you the 1st Tacks game and the NYG's game. But know this, the defense everybody was touting as bada** before the season started was way overrated. Gotta fix the CB's.

If Dillard is there I take him. If he's not and Greedy is there as has been rumored I take him and trade back into the late 1st/early 2nd for an OT that can play either LT/RT and hopefully sign a LT in FA. This all depends on who they get in FA.
 

thunderkyss

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We have an opportunity to add talent to our team every year. We should do our best to acquire the best talent we possibly can.

When we see our offense dominate & take advantage of defenses I'll say O'Brien has outcoached someone. But as long as our offense continues to make magic out of no win situations, he gets very little credit for talent overcoming poor coaching.

There were a couple of games, I think Buffalo & Miami where he coached our offensive talent. The way he coached our talent at the end of the Jags game, I liked that as well. But everything else seems like he's forcing square pegs in round holes.
 

steelbtexan

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We have an opportunity to add talent to our team every year. We should do our best to acquire the best talent we possibly can.

When we see our offense dominate & take advantage of defenses I'll say O'Brien has outcoached someone. But as long as our offense continues to make magic out of no win situations, he gets very little credit for talent overcoming poor coaching.

There were a couple of games, I think Buffalo & Miami where he coached our offensive talent. The way he coached our talent at the end of the Jags game, I liked that as well. But everything else seems like he's forcing square pegs in round holes.
Maybe just maybe that had something to do with the teams the Texans were playing talent level and the talent level on the Texans roster.
 


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