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Week 8: Big Tits in Houston

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
amongst the hardest things to do in all of sports..which is yet another reason why drafting a qb in 2023 in the hopes that he’ll rescue this franchise next year is even more foolhardy.

If there’s no significant improvement next year, Lovie’s likely going to get fired & the next HC in 2024 is likely going to want his own guy under center, not the guy Lovie picked and screwed up the year prior.
There are no certainties drafting 21 yr olds , period, you know that. Even with a new coach, he can come in and evaluate the qb like McDaniels did in Miami and Siriani did in Philly. Neither brought in new qb's, that's coaching, very underrated. Who is to say that if they do draft a qb high in 23 because he's rated that high and Lovie is fired that the new qb doesn't want that qb especially if he's an offensive minded coach?McCarthy kept Dak also, the vikings coach kept Cousins and we know Cousins history. Regardless, you can't bypass just to bypass.
 

Earl34

Hall of Fame
Same things were said about Jeff Luhnow and that has worked out pretty well.

Fact is posters are whining because the team lacks talent and is boring. Well this is what a rebuild looks like. What did you expect a rebuild to look like?
Compared to your posts over the previous 3-4 years. Your optimism is a startling change. But how do you know Caserio is Luhnow and not the GM of the Pirates, Marlins, or even the Rangers?

Personally, I hope it works out and I'm in wait and see mode before I crown Caserio as Jeff Luhnow.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
One of the great offensive minds have tried the Jimmy G project and they continue to give up capital to try to mask his shortcomings. Now the team is in the Titans territory without the coaching or player development. Look, if they analyze the best player regardless of position, draft the player. Nobody can tell me that aside from today, the oline hasn't held up well enough. We've seen the qb miss guys left and right and throwing the ball in the stands. Better qb play automatically equals better team play. Does that mean the team is complete? No, but you can get all the high level tranch guy and skill guys you want and if the qb isn't playing like Mills, you're still not going to win games, especially close games. You know how to keep Henry from running for 200 yds? Put points on the board early. The Titans are a well coached team with limitations at the qb. Even with the #1 nobody thought they were a threat. Right now, Vrabel is a far surperior coach Lovie and the gm is better than Caserio so far, those are just facts.
yeah no. Henry’s running for what he is b/c the defense can’t stop him. You’re limited in your possessions and time as an offense when you cant stop a team from running the ball down your throat and thereby chewing clock. Also puts more pressure on an offense to have to score on every possession they do have the ball…& i dont care how good your qb play is, no offense scores on every possession.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Yeah, he ok. Not sure it was quite as bad as this though. And he also has much better weapons at WR - not even in the same zipcode. This team needs that, whoever takes the helm.
What??? Burrough line is trash and yeah he does hold the ball longer than he should. Watson had a trash oline and when Savage was in the system 3 years, he couldn't even get out the way. Soon as Watson took over, the offense picked up by 10 fold. The qb makes a huge difference in your team being capable, that's not even up for debate.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Can't compare baseball that has a minor league system to develop players vs a year to year league like the nfl. Its apples to watermelons.
It took 3 yrs for the Astros to get to the playoffs. I expect the Texans to atleast compete for a playoff spot after 3 full drafts. 2022-2024. So while I would agree the sports are different, but the timeline isn't. IMHO

How long do you think the rebuild will take? Also you never answered my question of what's the big deal with waiting until 2024 to draft a QB? If Caserio hits on the QB in 2024 that should keep the window open a yr longer and that's a bad thing IYO?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
There are no certainties drafting 21 yr olds , period, you know that. Even with a new coach, he can come in and evaluate the qb like McDaniels did in Miami and Siriani did in Philly. Neither brought in new qb's, that's coaching, very underrated. Who is to say that if they do draft a qb high in 23 because he's rated that high and Lovie is fired that the new qb doesn't want that qb especially if he's an offensive minded coach?McCarthy kept Dak also, the vikings coach kept Cousins and we know Cousins history. Regardless, you can't bypass just to bypass.
yeah and Pederson came in with Lawrence already on the roster as his guy..a year into it and he’s already behibd the 8-ball b/c his qb sucks ass. We know McCarthy was also forced to take on Dak cause Jerry made him.

More often than not, those guys want their own guy…or want the right to build a team in their own image, not with someone else. You dont want a situation where the new HC is being hired based on his willingness or “promise” to “fix” the incumbent qb.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
yeah no. Henry’s running for what he is b/c the defense can’t stop him. You’re limited in your possessions and time as an offense when you cant stop a team from running the ball down your throat and thereby chewing clock. Also puts more pressure on an offense to have to score on every possession they do have the ball…& i dont care how good your qb play is, no offense scores on every possession.
They scored 17pts. How many possessions did the Texans generated 1st downs? I haven't watched the game yet, but I'm pretty sure if I watch it I can tell they had 3 and outs early in the game without flipping the field, right. They had a rookie qb from Liberty and couldn't muster enough offense to put pressure on the young qb. It doesn't even have to be points, it can be drives, long drives.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
What??? Burrough line is trash and yeah he does hold the ball longer than he should. Watson had a trash oline and when Savage was in the system 3 years, he couldn't even get out the way. Soon as Watson took over, the offense picked up by 10 fold. The qb makes a huge difference in your team being capable, that's not even up for debate.
And it still didnt matter, the team still SUCKED….primarily b/c we didnt have enough talent around him. We put up 34 points on offense against KC in the playoffs and still got outscored by 20 damn points b/c the defense couldnt stop the opposition. Why do u think that was?
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
They scored 17pts. How many possessions did the Texans generated 1st downs? I haven't watched the game yet, but I'm pretty sure if I watch it I can tell they had 3 and outs early in the game without flipping the field, right. They had a rookie qb from Liberty and couldn't muster enough offense to put pressure on the young qb. It doesn't even have to be points, it can be drives, long drives.
Yeah, considering Henry’s history of running over the Texans, he was gonna do what he was gonna do..The Titans defense owned the Texans o-line. We couldnt run it and stayed in 3rd and long. That has more to do with why the offense couldn’t do anything on offense than Mills’ individual play.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What??? Burrough line is trash and yeah he does hold the ball longer than he should. Watson had a trash oline and when Savage was in the system 3 years, he couldn't even get out the way. Soon as Watson took over, the offense picked up by 10 fold. The qb makes a huge difference in your team being capable, that's not even up for debate.
Yep

4 wins
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
It took 3 yrs for the Astros to get to the playoffs. I expect the Texans to atleast compete for a playoff spot after 3 full drafts. 2022-2024. So while I would agree the sports are different, but the timeline isn't. IMHO

How long do you think the rebuild will take? Also you never answered my question of what's the big deal with waiting until 2024 to draft a QB? If Caserio hits on the QB in 2024 that should keep the window open a yr longer and that's a bad thing IYO?
I didn't answer your question because you're set on ewers and williams being higher rated than this class. We had conversations about the rebuild and you stated that by 2023 they should be in the playoffs and 2024 they should be serious contenders. When asked what is serious, you said afccg. Now you're talking 5 years or more. Man this is a year to year league with roster turnover. This isn't baseball in any capacity and you can't remotely compare the 2. The Astros have shown and proven they can develop talent from the farm. The problem with the texans is they haven't proven they can via the draft at a high level. Go look at Buffalo offensive line and tell me how many high draft picks they have on that line. Tell me how many highly drafted wr,rbs,and te's they have on that roster while you're at it.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
And it still didnt matter, the team still SUCKED.
Yep, the Texans have tried to draft a QB twice without having a more complete team around the QB and we all know how that turned out. But LeeBig is on the hey sir give me another. Truth is unless there's a generational QB you shouldn't spend a top 5 -10 pick on a QB. Unless you love the mediocrity we've seen over the last 2 decades.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
yeah and Pederson came in with Lawrence already on the roster as his guy..a year into it and he’s already behibd the 8-ball b/c his qb sucks ass. We know McCarthy was also forced to take on Dak cause Jerry made him.

More often than not, those guys want their own guy…or want the right to build a team in their own image, not with someone else. You dont want a situation where the new HC is being hired based on his willingness or “promise” to “fix” the incumbent qb.
If Pederson wanted another qb, I'm sure he could've said it. McDaniels in Vegas kept Carr also right?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Yep, the Texans have tried to draft a QB twice without having a more complete team around the QB and we all know how that turned out. But LeeBig is on the hey sir give me another. Truth is unless there's a generational QB you shouldn't spend a top 5 -10 pick on a QB. Unless you love the mediocrity we've seen over the last 2 decades.
If there is a generational qb, then that means 1 every 10 or 12 years right? So nobody has drafted or won a superbowl without Manning or Luck correct?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I didn't answer your question because you're set on ewers and williams being higher rated than this class. We had conversations about the rebuild and you stated that by 2023 they should be in the playoffs and 2024 they should be serious contenders. When asked what is serious, you said afccg. Now you're talking 5 years or more. Man this is a year to year league with roster turnover. This isn't baseball in any capacity and you can't remotely compare the 2. The Astros have shown and proven they can develop talent from the farm. The problem with the texans is they haven't proven they can via the draft at a high level. Go look at Buffalo offensive line and tell me how many high draft picks they have on that line. Tell me how many highly drafted wr,rbs,and te's they have on that roster while you're at it.
I've always said 3 full drafts.

Are the time lines after 3 full drafts not the same as the Astros building their dynasty. Why yes, the Stros did make the playoffs in 2015 after being historically bad from 2012-2014.

Anyways, tell me what's your big deal waiting a yr to draft a QB. I actually like Maye as much or more than I do Ewers.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
There are no certainties drafting 21 yr olds , period, you know that. Even with a new coach, he can come in and evaluate the qb like McDaniels did in Miami and Siriani did in Philly. Neither brought in new qb's, that's coaching, very underrated. Who is to say that if they do draft a qb high in 23 because he's rated that high and Lovie is fired that the new qb doesn't want that qb especially if he's an offensive minded coach?McCarthy kept Dak also, the vikings coach kept Cousins and we know Cousins history. Regardless, you can't bypass just to bypass.
The coaches brought in new WRs.

I ask you - what makes you think that Pep/Lovie won’t ruin a rookie? There are plenty of examples where a rookie QB went into the wrong place and was ruined. I don’t think these coaches can develop a QB. Get ready for Caserio to have a third HC under him.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
If Pederson wanted another qb, I'm sure he could've said it. McDaniels in Vegas kept Carr also right?
Pederson likely wasn’t getting the gig if he didnt agree to continue working and developing Lawrence whom was just drafted the year prior and was thought to be a generational talent coming out.

McDaniels kept Carr..but lets be real, it wouldve been tough trying to move Carr and his contract…so again, a situation where McDaniels likely wouldn’t have been offered the job if he didnt also agree with ownership/GM to getting carr to the next level b/c the organization already was committed to him with the contract.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I didn't answer your question because you're set on ewers and williams being higher rated than this class. We had conversations about the rebuild and you stated that by 2023 they should be in the playoffs and 2024 they should be serious contenders. When asked what is serious, you said afccg. Now you're talking 5 years or more. Man this is a year to year league with roster turnover. This isn't baseball in any capacity and you can't remotely compare the 2. The Astros have shown and proven they can develop talent from the farm. The problem with the texans is they haven't proven they can via the draft at a high level. Go look at Buffalo offensive line and tell me how many high draft picks they have on that line. Tell me how many highly drafted wr,rbs,and te's they have on that roster while you're at it.
The Texans have 3 high draft picks on the team, so in theory they should be able to add a couple of OL later in the draft (Say 3rd or 4th rd) and in FA. This should be very doable. Caserio has to find the answer at C.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Yep, the Texans have tried to draft a QB twice without having a more complete team around the QB and we all know how that turned out. But LeeBig is on the hey sir give me another. Truth is unless there's a generational QB you shouldn't spend a top 5 -10 pick on a QB. Unless you love the mediocrity we've seen over the last 2 decades.
They also tried to build it out and had the 3 time defensive mvp and how did that work?
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
Rub crossing routes by the receivers and TE’s might finally spring someone loose for a big gain after the catch.
They tried that with Akins & Jordan and you saw how that turned out. They don't do it and practice it enough to have success in a game. Either you get what we saw today or get offensive pass interference. It's going to take talent and an OC that can be creative with routes and lots of work
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I've always said 3 full drafts.

Are the time lines after 3 full drafts not the same as the Astros building their dynasty. Why yes, the Stros did make the playoffs in 2015 after being historically bad from 2012-2014.

Anyways, tell me what's your big deal waiting a yr to draft a QB. I actually like Maye as much or more than I do Ewers.
There is no big deal about waiting, the draft and rebuild is a fluid process. I'm not against waiting, but I don't think you wait just to wait. They had extra picks this year and next year correct? Not only extra picks, but extra 1st rd picks which is a premium. You can wait and wait and wallow in mediocrity like the Colts post Luck and then your young talent gets old and high priced. Now you know I've stated how the cap is just a traffic cone. I know this, the Texans inder the last regime and incomplete under this one haven't done well developing players. Look how many resources they have tied up in the oline vs a team like Buffalo. Look at how that team developed under Taylor when he was qb and McDermott was the coach. Look at Buffalo backfield and look at Texans. Caserio is wasting time on older vets who aren't good for the sake of having a low floor vs just having young guys making mistakes and getting them corrected. They brought back most of the team that won 4 games. What sense does that make?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Well not so much these days with Allen/Mahomes/Burrow/Herbert etc...
How can a guy be generational when guys came in a year after each other? That's not generational,thats scouting and development. Mahomes wasn't considered generational either, nor was Allen, yet here we are and that's my point. Nobody thought a guy completing 56% in college could do what Allen can do and he's leading his team in rushing. Nobody thought Mahomes from the air raid could be the nfl mvp and superbowl champion. Nobody except those gms and coaches.
 
Maybe not. But there are fans that are saying "At least we are not Houston Texans fans."
I haven't witnessed any of them saying that. Have you seen their record this season? As of the Super Bowl era they have suffered way more suckitude overall than we have in our brief history. If anybody wants to say the Lions have been around longer than us that hammers my point home. Detriot has been a doormat through most of their history. A few other teams fans laugh at our so called misery.

Jaguars match Lions for second-longest losing streak in Super Bowl era; third-longest in NFL history - CBSSports.com
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
This franchise is a complete clusterfuk, as evidenced by the empty seats in the stadium as well as the product on the field.
Empty seats, yeah. Still 68,467 tickets sold though. Cha-ching!!

We could have it worse. At least we are not Detroit Lions fans. How many seasons of sucking have their fans endured? Even though B'Ob is a big part of the reason we will suck for many seasons to come the Lions fans would love to have traded a few of his seasons with us.
Any time you're in a comparison with the Detroit Lions, it's never a good thing.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Pederson likely wasn’t getting the gig if he didnt agree to continue working and developing Lawrence whom was just drafted the year prior and was thought to be a generational talent coming out.

McDaniels kept Carr..but lets be real, it wouldve been tough trying to move Carr and his contract…so again, a situation where McDaniels likely wouldn’t have been offered the job if he didnt also agree with ownership/GM to getting carr to the next level b/c the organization already was committed to him with the contract.
Carr didn't get his deal until after McDaniels took over. They could've let him play it out and waited to see. Carr signed his deal in april, Mcdaniels took over in January.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
The coaches brought in new WRs.

I ask you - what makes you think that Pep/Lovie won’t ruin a rookie? There are plenty of examples where a rookie QB went into the wrong place and was ruined. I don’t think these coaches can develop a QB. Get ready for Caserio to have a third HC under him.
I will ask you, if that's the case, why are they here? Why waste the time if the known is wasting a rookie qb?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Empty seats, yeah. Still 68,467 tickets sold though. Cha-ching!!



Any time you're in a comparison with the Detroit Lions, it's never a good thing.
Teams make their money off parking and concessions. The gate is split equally with the other 32 teams. If the stadium is half full and people are buying those high ass hot dogs and beer, the team is losing revenue. That's where teams make their money besides tv contracts. Those bean counters come in and show money lost and that's how guys get fired.
 

wildroot

Rookie
this is barely worth a response because you know better. QB’s don’t play defense.I feel stupid having to mention that to a so-called knowledgeable fan.
You'd have to give Mills the same consideration then. How many game did the D lose in the last few minutes this year?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
How can a guy be generational when guys came in a year after each other? That's not generational,thats scouting and development. Mahomes wasn't considered generational either, nor was Allen, yet here we are and that's my point. Nobody thought a guy completing 56% in college could do what Allen can do and he's leading his team in rushing. Nobody thought Mahomes from the air raid could be the nfl mvp and superbowl champion. Nobody except those gms and coaches.
Correct about Allen.

I wanted Mahomes and so did BOB.

What do both of these guys have in common. They both have great arms and mobility. (Run as a last resort at least until the playoffs.)

Levis is the only guy in this draft that has these tools and I wouldn't dradt him. I also like later QB picks Duggan/Rising if Caserio has to pick a QB.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
this is barely worth a response because you know better. QB’s don’t play defense.I feel stupid having to mention that to a so-called knowledgeable fan.
& thats my point genius. For as good as he was, we still couldnt win more than 4 games with him b/c of the deficiencies elsewhere on the team. A qb elevating your team should be treated as the thing that puts you over the top, not the thing that gets you to being good enough to compete. i feel stupid for having to explain this to you.. but Based on your typical surface level analysis and responses to everything, the 2nd part of your response is probably how you feel all the time.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
There is no big deal about waiting, the draft and rebuild is a fluid process. I'm not against waiting, but I don't think you wait just to wait. They had extra picks this year and next year correct? Not only extra picks, but extra 1st rd picks which is a premium. You can wait and wait and wallow in mediocrity like the Colts post Luck and then your young talent gets old and high priced. Now you know I've stated how the cap is just a traffic cone. I know this, the Texans inder the last regime and incomplete under this one haven't done well developing players. Look how many resources they have tied up in the oline vs a team like Buffalo. Look at how that team developed under Taylor when he was qb and McDermott was the coach. Look at Buffalo backfield and look at Texans. Caserio is wasting time on older vets who aren't good for the sake of having a low floor vs just having young guys making mistakes and getting them corrected. They brought back most of the team that won 4 games. What sense does that make?
They wont get old if they draft a QB in 2024.

Agreed about the HC. What do you do with Lovie?

They fixed the secondary and attempted to fix the OL. So next yr should be all about the DL and playmakers in the next draft. Hopefully they can find a long term C in the 3rd/4th rd.
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
Teams make their money off parking and concessions. The gate is split equally with the other 32 teams. If the stadium is half full and people are buying those high ass hot dogs and beer, the team is losing revenue. That's where teams make their money besides tv contracts. Those bean counters come in and show money lost and that's how guys get fired.
You can't count money lost because a few spent and some didn't
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club

Texansphan

Football connoisseur
I just don't see it with Willis. I can understand a raw, rookie QB making his first start. But his throwing motion will always lead to accuracy problems. Now if he had a throwing motion like Davis Mills, there might be hope for him. :shades:
If you're looking for "it" factor, then Mills ain't that guy. Today he looked like a third stringer.
Should offer Patriots a fifth for Bailey Zappe - if they bump you to a fourth, take it.
 

Texansphan

Football connoisseur
It took 3 yrs for the Astros to get to the playoffs. I expect the Texans to atleast compete for a playoff spot after 3 full drafts. 2022-2024. So while I would agree the sports are different, but the timeline isn't. IMHO

How long do you think the rebuild will take? Also you never answered my question of what's the big deal with waiting until 2024 to draft a QB? If Caserio hits on the QB in 2024 that should keep the window open a yr longer and that's a bad thing IYO?
Two more full drafts - with a full bank.
If we aren't competitive (at least for the division) by then, you need to start looking at new GM, HC, etc,.
 

Texansphan

Football connoisseur
Correct about Allen.
I wanted Mahomes and so did BOB.

What do both of these guys have in common. They both have great arms and mobility. (Run as a last resort at least until the playoffs.)

Levis is the only guy in this draft that has these tools and I wouldn't dradt him. I also like later QB picks Duggan/Rising if Caserio has to pick a QB.
So did I.
I had no idea he would be this good, but then again, would he have blossomed like he has in this organization?
 
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