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Week 6 @ Indy

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Well, that's what you get for jumping into the middle of a conversation/argument.

Caserio and Culley are fools to make Mills the backup QB.

This is not Pee Wee league where anybody and everybody gets to play.
Also, fans spend a lot of money on the team and to watch a professional game, not practice.

People can't use excuses like "oh, but he only had 11 college starts and limited time in the NFL".

Then sit.

They didn't have any problem bringing up the Patriots game.

Well, then they shouldn't have any problem when I and others bring up the rest of the games.

The number one job of a backup QB is to protect the ball, and not turning it over.

Mills' first Int in the Colts game resulted in a quick TD for the opponent and put the Texans behind the 8 ball.
Like I said, it was first and 10 and there was no pressure.
There was just one receiver on that side.
The QB has to know that the defender can easily (and is often taught to) squeeze the route.
He has time.
He needs to check that.
But he doesn't know how to read defense so it comes back to the fact that he has no business to be on the field.
He lacks too much fundamental to be out there on the NFL field.
You know who else threw a pick like that on Sunday, (One DB came off the guy he was covering for the int.) Dak, I guess he cant read defenses either.

Point is these types of ints happen to all QB's, even more often to rookie QB's.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Is this the same thing that when Derrick did something right it was all him and when something went wrong it was all BOB?
Hmm, no.

Plenty of football people had talked about this.

I seem to remember somebody saying he'd take Clint Stoerner over "lesser-knowledgeable fans".

Same thing should apply here, shouldn't it?
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
So when something goes right, it's Mills.
When something goes bad, it's the HC, the OC, and so on?
Apparently you watched a different game than most. And I am not the only person saying that the staff screwed up. Multiple NFL reporters, analysts and more are saying that Culley didn't have the game plan right. Culley also said it himself if you look.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
You know who else threw a pick like that on Sunday, (One DB came off the guy he was covering for the int.) Dak, I guess he cant read defenses either.

Point is these types of ints happen to all QB's, even more often to rookie QB's.
Cowboys vs Pats?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Apparently you watched a different game than most. And I am not the only person saying that the staff screwed up. Multiple NFL reporters, analysts and more are saying that Culley didn't have the game plan right. Culley also said it himself if you look.
So a game plan that have the backs going for 27-129 yards is bad?
The game plan that had Mills connected for 243 yards is bad?

The coaches told Mills to throw an INT on 1st and 10 with no pressure anywhere around?
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
So a game plan that have the backs going for 27-129 yards is bad?
The game plan that had Mills connected for 243 yards is bad?

The coaches told Mills to throw an INT on 1st and 10 with no pressure anywhere around?
Throwing an INT is a mistake. As you learn the game it happens less. Again, stated in the original reply. He threw 1 pick that was 100% on him and another that wasn't. In was a very good play by a DB. I don’t understand the logic in your posting. Most feel that Mills is improving and playing better. Not just on the forums but in the media, the analysis from the experts who are paid to break down film. Nobody is saying he is the second coming of Brady, Rogers or Manning. They are just stating that he is getting better. Which is what you want to see in any rookie player at any position. Now, if you just don’t like him. That's also fine, and your posts seem to indicate you don't. Otherwise, saying he played better (besides 1 game) than he did in his 1st game is growth and/or development at his position in his play.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Throwing an INT is a mistake. As you learn the game it happens less. Again, stated in the original reply. He threw 1 pick that was 100% on him and another that wasn't. In was a very good play by a DB. I don’t understand the logic in your posting. Most feel that Mills is improving and playing better. Not just on the forums but in the media, the analysis from the experts who are paid to break down film. Nobody is saying he is the second coming of Brady, Rogers or Manning. They are just stating that he is getting better. Which is what you want to see in any rookie player at any position. Now, if you just don’t like him. That's also fine, and your posts seem to indicate you don't. Otherwise, saying he played better (besides 1 game) than he did in his 1st game is growth and/or development at his position in his play.
I don't see how you can say he was better vs the Colts than he was vs. the Pats .

Please tell me how?

And that 32nd ranking; that doesn't tell me people saw him as improving.

Then those increasing Vegas odds.
You know these people employ mathematical models that utilize the knowledge of the football people.
It doesn't lie.
 
Last edited:

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I don't see how you can say he was better vs the Colts than he was vs. the Pats .

Please tell me how?

And that 32nd ranking; that doesn't tell me people saw him as improving.

Then those increasing Vegas odds.
You know these people employ mathematical models that utilize the knowledge of the football people.
It doesn't lie.
Not saying you're wrong in what you're asserting here, but it seems you put too much stock in stats when it comes to these types of discussions. The stats sway you more than maybe you'd like to admit.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Throwing an INT is a mistake. As you learn the game it happens less. Again, stated in the original reply. He threw 1 pick that was 100% on him and another that wasn't. In was a very good play by a DB. I don’t understand the logic in your posting. Most feel that Mills is improving and playing better. Not just on the forums but in the media, the analysis from the experts who are paid to break down film. Nobody is saying he is the second coming of Brady, Rogers or Manning. They are just stating that he is getting better. Which is what you want to see in any rookie player at any position. Now, if you just don’t like him. That's also fine, and your posts seem to indicate you don't. Otherwise, saying he played better (besides 1 game) than he did in his 1st game is growth and/or development at his position in his play.
And here, ESPN dropped him from 30 to 32.


And the Colts D ain't better than the Pats'
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Not saying you're wrong in what you're asserting here, but it seems you put too much stock in stats when it comes to these types of discussions. The stats sway you more than maybe you'd like to admit.
What does it have to do with stats when I ask how do you think he played better against the Colts than he played against the Pats.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Wasn’t that INT thrown over the middle? The LBer jumped it over the middle. Pretty sure I wasn’t drunk for that part of the game. I know, I know, I need to pick up my game!

12:44 in the third.

Texans were in 12 personnel, balanced.
Collins was the lone route runner on the left side.

Mills' ball fake was so bad, neither the MLB nor the RLB advanced toward the LOS.

And Mills' eyes didn't help either.

Both LBs were ready to get to the ball before the receiver had a chance.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
I think some people ride Mills so hard because they don't like the decisions that Culley and Caserio made that led to Mills being put in a position to have to play. It is their way of underscoring that they were right about them not being qualified to do their jobs. They actually wants Mills to play worse to validate their positions about the entire organization and the decisions they made. Being right is all that matters and will use data to support it, until it doesn't. Then they will move goalposts to go with subjective analysis. They will wear you down with a thousand posts and declare victory when you finally stop responding.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I think some people ride Mills so hard because they don't like the decisions that Culley and Caserio made that led to Mills being put in a position to have to play. It is their way of underscoring that they were right about them not being qualified to do their jobs. They actually wants Mills to play worse to validate their positions about the entire organization and the decisions they made. Being right is all that matters and will use data to support it, until it doesn't. Then they will move goalposts to go with subjective analysis. They will wear you down with a thousand posts and declare victory when you finally stop responding.
I feel sorry for Mills, but like I had said, I don't even want another Schaub's level of performance QB.

And you can't tell me Mills is going to achieve better results than that.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Let
I think some people ride Mills so hard because they don't like the decisions that Culley and Caserio made that led to Mills being put in a position to have to play. It is their way of underscoring that they were right about them not being qualified to do their jobs. They actually wants Mills to play worse to validate their positions about the entire organization and the decisions they made. Being right is all that matters and will use data to support it, until it doesn't. Then they will move goalposts to go with subjective analysis. They will wear you down with a thousand posts and declare victory when you finally stop responding.
Let me ask you a straight question.
Do you want to have a QB that is better than Schaub?
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I think some people ride Mills so hard because they don't like the decisions that Culley and Caserio made that led to Mills being put in a position to have to play. It is their way of underscoring that they were right about them not being qualified to do their jobs. They actually wants Mills to play worse to validate their positions about the entire organization and the decisions they made. Being right is all that matters and will use data to support it, until it doesn't. Then they will move goalposts to go with subjective analysis. They will wear you down with a thousand posts and declare victory when you finally stop responding.
Sounds like majority of people on this board.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I would be very happy with a more mobile 2007 Schaub. Plus Mills has a much better arm than Schaub ever had. If Mills doesn't become a franchise QB it wont be because of talent.
So you're saying that Mills is going to be better than Schaub?

In Schaub's first 4 games, spreading over 3 years, Schaub threw for 8 TDs vs 5 INTs.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I think some people ride Mills so hard because they don't like the decisions that Culley and Caserio made that led to Mills being put in a position to have to play. It is their way of underscoring that they were right about them not being qualified to do their jobs.
You’re probably right about “some” people.

I’m holding out that Caserio & Culley are going to turn this thing around & have the Texans competing for a Super Bowl in the next five years.

I don’t like that they put Davis in the position he is in, but I’m coming to the conclusion they’re more right than I am.

He looks as competent as any other QB in this draft. But he doesn’t show any “wow” the other guys definitely look more talented. Arm, legs. I’ve yet to see a “wow” play from Mills.

And that’s just got me wondering what exactly is the plan for this guy. He doesn’t look like a franchise QB. Maybe he can be Alex Smith for a couple of years. Build a team around him, then plug in our Mahomes three years from now.

Maybe.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I'm saying he's got the ability to be better than Schaub.
And Schaub came up under Jim Mora (who had career losing record, and didn't last but 4 years as a HC.)

And then "mediocre" Kubiak.

What does Mills need to become a franchise QB like you're saying?
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
You’re probably right about “some” people.

I’m holding out that Caserio & Culley are going to turn this thing around & have the Texans competing for a Super Bowl in the next five years.

I don’t like that they put Davis in the position he is in, but I’m coming to the conclusion they’re more right than I am.

He looks as competent as any other QB in this draft. But he doesn’t show any “wow” the other guys definitely look more talented. Arm, legs. I’ve yet to see a “wow” play from Mills.

And that’s just got me wondering what exactly is the plan for this guy. He doesn’t look like a franchise QB. Maybe he can be Alex Smith for a couple of years. Build a team around him, then plug in our Mahomes three years from now.

Maybe.
If the ceiling is that he can Alex Smith this goat rodeo until they build a contender, then get replaced by a legit franchise QB as the team peaks, I would consider that a win.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
If the ceiling is that he can Alex Smith this goat rodeo until they build a contender, then get replaced by a legit franchise QB as the team peaks, I would consider that a win.
It took Smith 3 seasons (30 starts) plus an IR season to become a game manager.



And the Niners didn't achieve a winning season until Smith's 7th year.

Do you have the patient to wait that long?
Do you think the fans, in general, will be cool with that?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It took Smith 3 seasons (30 starts) plus an IR season to become a game manager.



And the Niners didn't achieve a winning season until Smith's 7th year.

Do you have the patient to wait that long?
Do you think the fans, in general, will be cool with that?
Just because I want him to play at a good Alex Smith level does not mean I want him to follow Alex Smith's career path.

I don't know that Davis Mills will ever be a franchise QB. I'm hoping he's at least a bridge.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
It took Smith 3 seasons (30 starts) plus an IR season to become a game manager.



And the Niners didn't achieve a winning season until Smith's 7th year.

Do you have the patient to wait that long?
Do you think the fans, in general, will be cool with that?
Your purposeful literalness in attempts to make a point is insufferable.

Yes, I absolutely meant that I wanted Mills to play poorly for multiple seasons and have a devastating injury causing him to miss an entire year, be a mediocre QB for a few more years before finally putting it all together in season 7, which of course would have been on his second contract that he signed.

How could you have thought I meant anything other than that.

I in no way, shape or form intended to mean that the concept of Mills as an effective game manager would be a preferable option during a rebuild so that they could spend draft picks and $$$ building the foundation of the team, even though that was the comment that I quoted in my post.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Your purposeful literalness in attempts to make a point is insufferable.

Yes, I absolutely meant that I wanted Mills to play poorly for multiple seasons and have a devastating injury causing him to miss an entire year, be a mediocre QB for a few more years before finally putting it all together in season 7, which of course would have been on his second contract that he signed.

How could you have thought I meant anything other than that.

I in no way, shape or form intended to mean that the concept of Mills as an effective game manager would be a preferable option during a rebuild so that they could spend draft picks and $$$ building the foundation of the team, even though that was the comment that I quoted in my post.
I'm not trying to be offensive or anything like that.

I was simply curious as to your statement that you consider it a win with Mills being a bridge QB.

Well, there needs to be qualifications like how long and what may happen to the team during that process.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Just because I want him to play at a good Alex Smith level does not mean I want him to follow Alex Smith's career path.

I don't know that Davis Mills will ever be a franchise QB. I'm hoping he's at least a bridge.
Same as my above-post.
Since you guys made the Alex Smith reference , I need to know a time frame.

So I had to bring up Alex Smith's records.
Then I could ask for clarification as to what level of plays (as compared to Alex) and when should we expect Mills to achieve the game manager level?

Now, I know you're not steelb, but his "game plan" (from the horse mouth) is to draft a QB until the team find a bonafide franchise QB.

He then stated that he sees Mills as a franchise QB.

But then when I pressed on as to when, he couldn't give me an estimate.

IMO, that's a double standard.
It means he's not sure when.
In that case, he ought to want the Texans to keep drafting QB(s).

And when the Texans do that, it would be with a high pick, don't you think?

In that scenario, those guys will be given the reign, as the FO has to justify the high pick(s).
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Same as my above-post.
Since you guys made the Alex Smith reference , I need to know a time frame.
I'm sorry I was so cryptic

I’m holding out that Caserio & Culley are going to turn this thing around & have the Texans competing for a Super Bowl in the next five years.
And that’s just got me wondering what exactly is the plan for this guy. He doesn’t look like a franchise QB. Maybe he can be Alex Smith for a couple of years. Build a team around him, then plug in our Mahomes three years from now.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Now, I know you're not steelb, but his "game plan" (from the horse mouth) is to draft a QB until the team find a bonafide franchise QB.

He then stated that he sees Mills as a franchise QB.

But then when I pressed on as to when, he couldn't give me an estimate.

IMO, that's a double standard.
It means he's not sure when.
In that case, he ought to want the Texans to keep drafting QB(s).
I don't recall Steelb saying Mills is a franchise qb. I do recall him saying that Mills has the tools to become a franchise qb. I believe his position is that he wants to continue to play Mills and evaluate him this season. I believe I also recall him saying he would draft a qb next year, although not necessarily in the first round. Now, I may be wrong, in which case I'm sure he will correct and clarify.

Now, my opinion, I believe the collage season so far has not highlighted an elite prospect at qb. In this case, we could start Mills next season and see what the qb prospects are in the 2023 draft. We will possibly have multiple ones from any Watson trade in 2023 and could make a move to acquire a franchise qb at that time.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I don't recall Steelb saying Mills is a franchise qb. I do recall him saying that Mills has the tools to become a franchise qb. I believe his position is that he wants to continue to play Mills and evaluate him this season. I believe I also recall him saying he would draft a qb next year, although not necessarily in the first round. Now, I may be wrong, in which case I'm sure he will correct and clarify.

Now, my opinion, I believe the collage season so far has not highlighted an elite prospect at qb. In this case, we could start Mills next season and see what the qb prospects are in the 2023 draft. We will possibly have multiple ones from any Watson trade in 2023 and could make a move to acquire a franchise qb at that time.
Not 100% (simply because nobody can say 100% at this time), but steelb did say "it looks like NC had found his franchise QB".

When I pressed about his philosophy of drafting a QB every year until you hit on one, yes, he did say that he would be fine with taking Carson Strong in the first.

And I'm OK with all of that (not necessarily agree on Strong, just with the philosophy.)

There's still a lot of time to see whether a QB emerges.

You need to remember that even those of us who liked Mahomes and/or Watson never came to that conclusion until a couple of months after the college season.

Even in the professional rank, up until the draft, there was no consensus.
If you search for the prospect rankings from SI, USA, NFL Network, PFF, Draft King, ESPN and so on, it was all over the place among the top 4 or 5 prospects.

Some even had Mahomes in the 3rd-4th round.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don't recall Steelb saying Mills is a franchise qb. I do recall him saying that Mills has the tools to become a franchise qb. I believe his position is that he wants to continue to play Mills and evaluate him this season. I believe I also recall him saying he would draft a qb next year, although not necessarily in the first round. Now, I may be wrong, in which case I'm sure he will correct and clarify.

Now, my opinion, I believe the collage season so far has not highlighted an elite prospect at qb. In this case, we could start Mills next season and see what the qb prospects are in the 2023 draft. We will possibly have multiple ones from any Watson trade in 2023 and could make a move to acquire a franchise qb at that time.
Quoted for truth and clarity.

some posters either believe what they want to believe or they're illiterate. I dont believe 76 is illiterate, he's just pushing his narrative and being kind playing fast and loose with the truth. Just like in the Cannon thread when he attributed what CnD said about Cannon's knee to me. (Even though CnD correctly predicted Cannon's knee wouldn't be an issue) He just moved the goalposts and moved on. I get that 76 doesn't care for me, but atleast he should quote me correctly or dont quote me. Ever wonder why this is what it is?

BTW, I had Mahomes rated as my #1 QB in that draft.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I'm saying he's got the ability to be better than Schaub.
And one more quote to boost.

.....

In summary, you had said "Caserio may have found his QB", "the future looks bright" (with Mills), "Mills have the ability to be better than Schaub".

....

How should I interpret these statements of yours?
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
And one more quote to boost.

.....

In summary, you had said "Caserio may have found his QB", "the future looks bright" (with Mills), "Mills have the ability to be better than Schaub".

....

How should I interpret these statements of yours?
If dude realizes his potential, which was set at Schaub+, the GM made a great pick.

How else are you attempting to interpret his quotes?
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
I'm quoting you here to tie with the other posts.
Taken in context with other posts, I interpreted this to refer to physical talent - arm strength and ability to make throws. Injury is one thing which can sideline a player. But more important, and what requires evaluation, would be the ability to read the field and make proper decisions, his processing speed and instincts, especially under pressure. These are things which can't be evaluated at the combine or on the practice field. They only become apparent under game conditions.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
If dude realizes his potential, which was set at Schaub+, the GM made a great pick.

How else are you attempting to interpret his quotes?
I'd rather hear it straight from the horse mouth.

If the guy has the ability to be better than Schaub then what could stop him?

Schaub didn't have great HCs, per steelb, (Kubiak was mediocre).
Mora had a losing record and lasted just 4 years as HC.

The ability to play through injuries is part of what makes a franchise QB (Manning's broken collar bone; Montana's countless concussions; Andrew Luck's taking his beatings; Big Ben played with guys draping around him similarly, and so on).
A guy needs to know how to protect himself; nobody is shedding a tear for even the little guys like Wilson or Brees when they get hurt.

So I'm not sure what steelb really meant to say .
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Taken in context with other posts, I interpreted this to refer to physical talent - arm strength and ability to make throws. Injury is one thing which can sideline a player. But more important, and what requires evaluation, would be the ability to read the field and make proper decisions, his processing speed and instincts, especially under pressure. These are things which can't be evaluated at the combine or on the practice field. They only become apparent under game conditions.
How should I interpret his saying "the future is bright"
and "NC may have found his QB"?

Should I take it to mean that he (steelb) had seen enough to think that Mills has all that, enough to be a franchise QB?
 


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