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Week 5 - Patriots Bowl

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So then you pretty must just called Howard a bust Steel.
OK so what's your opinion now of the second round OL pick Scharping in that same Draft ?
I think so far from what I've seen is Howard is an average LG. Maybe a little bit below avg. But he's got room to grow. Scharping is a bust (I liked him) but he will hang around the NFL for awhile. Hope I'm wrong.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I think so far from what I've seen is Howard is an average LG. Maybe a little bit below avg. But he's got room to grow. Scharping is a bust (I liked him) but he will hang around the NFL for awhile. Hope I'm wrong.
Howard was doing fine at right tackle and Sharping is a right guard. Its amazing that every since Kubes and company left, the oline has gotten worse every season. Personally, I think its schematics and that Patriots system. Brady and the old oline coach made those lines look alot better than their talent suggest. I think if Kelly and his ideology were removed, the oline would be much better.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Howard was doing fine at right tackle and Sharping is a right guard. Its amazing that every since Kubes and company left, the oline has gotten worse every season. Personally, I think its schematics and that Patriots system. Brady and the old oline coach made those lines look alot better than their talent suggest. I think if Kelly and his ideology were removed, the oline would be much better.
I've never really been a fan of Howard's. Avg player at best and he seems to be injured alot. Hopefully he remains healthy this yr and develops. Because as of right now unless he vastly improves there's no way I exercise the 5th yr option.

I never really thought about this. This could very well be the problem. Hopefully this will be Kelly's last yr on Kirby. Color me unimpressed.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I've never really been a fan of Howard's. Avg player at best and he seems to be injured alot. Hopefully he remains healthy this yr and develops. Because as of right now unless he vastly improves there's no way I exercise the 5th yr option.

I never really thought about this. This could very well be the problem. Hopefully this will be Kelly's last yr on Kirby. Color me unimpressed.
You're entire line can't be all pros. If Howard or Sharping are just good solid players, thats fine. Bringing in Cannon and playing him as a starter was and still is a mistake. Again, how many ex Patriots have had success after leaving? Heck should be the swing tackle. Heck is one of the most technically sound oline players they have. Not to divert, nothing is marrying up from the pass to run game. Nobody was talking how good Cleveland oline was until Stephanski and Callahan came in. Say what you will, but those coaches off that Shanny tree know how to get a run game going. The Vikings had a backup and ran for 140 yds. Not only that, they know how to find oline and rbs. When you watch, the run action looks like the pass action. They don't run a lot of different personel groups either.
 

justmy2cents

Veteran
Contributor's Club
You're entire line can't be all pros. If Howard or Sharping are just good solid players, thats fine. Bringing in Cannon and playing him as a starter was and still is a mistake. Again, how many ex Patriots have had success after leaving? Heck should be the swing tackle. Heck is one of the most technically sound oline players they have. Not to divert, nothing is marrying up from the pass to run game. Nobody was talking how good Cleveland oline was until Stephanski and Callahan came in. Say what you will, but those coaches off that Shanny tree know how to get a run game going. The Vikings had a backup and ran for 140 yds. Not only that, they know how to find oline and rbs. When you watch, the run action looks like the pass action. They don't run a lot of different personel groups either.
Funny thing is, two years ago we had a very productive run game. The Patriots really place a lot of value on talent .... the ones they cull, are generally not the good'uns !
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You're entire line can't be all pros. If Howard or Sharping are just good solid players, thats fine. Bringing in Cannon and playing him as a starter was and still is a mistake. Again, how many ex Patriots have had success after leaving? Heck should be the swing tackle. Heck is one of the most technically sound oline players they have. Not to divert, nothing is marrying up from the pass to run game. Nobody was talking how good Cleveland oline was until Stephanski and Callahan came in. Say what you will, but those coaches off that Shanny tree know how to get a run game going. The Vikings had a backup and ran for 140 yds. Not only that, they know how to find oline and rbs. When you watch, the run action looks like the pass action. They don't run a lot of different personel groups either.
We differ on whether Howard/Scharping are good solid players. I do think you're onto something with the Scheme issues. My question is Culley/Pep/Campen are all from a modified ZBS scheme. You dont think they installed their scheme and let Kelly just keep on running the BOB system? I dont believe this is the case. What I do believe is the Texans have played some of the best defenses in the NFL so far and their OL has been overmatched from both a telent and a scheme standpoint. I would put Heck in at RT and let him learn. Also when you draft a player like Howard in the 1st rd, I would think you would expect him to be an above avg player if not an all pro. Howard is neither of these, hopefully he grows into an avg player. He ain't that right now.

I guess you're a ZBS guy?
 
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OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
We differ on whether Howard/Scharping are good solid players. I do think you're onto something with the Scheme issues. My question is Culley/Pep/Campen are all from a modified ZBS scheme. You dont think they installed their scheme and let Kelly just keep on running the ZBS system? I dont believe this is the case. What I do believe is the Texans have played some of the best defenses in the NFL so far and their OL has been overmatched from both a telent and a scheme standpoint. I would put Heck in at RT and let him learn. Also when you draft a player like Howard in the 1st rd, I would think you would expect him to be an above avg player if not an all pro. Howard is neither of these, hopefully he grows into an avg player. He ain't that right now.

I guess you're a ZBS guy?
If Howard doesn’t grasp the nuances of LG…..then he’s going to get cut unless the Texans can find a team who still see’s something in him and may be willing to send a RD7 pick in return, before he becomes a FA in 2023.
 
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leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
We differ on whether Howard/Scharping are good solid players. I do think you're onto something with the Scheme issues. My question is Culley/Pep/Campen are all from a modified ZBS scheme. You dont think they installed their scheme and let Kelly just keep on running the BOB system? I dont believe this is the case. What I do believe is the Texans have played some of the best defenses in the NFL so far and their OL has been overmatched from both a telent and a scheme standpoint. I would put Heck in at RT and let him learn. Also when you draft a player like Howard in the 1st rd, I would think you would expect him to be an above avg player if not an all pro. Howard is neither of these, hopefully he grows into an avg player. He ain't that right now.

I guess you're a ZBS guy?
I'm a block people type of guy. Because Kelley was kept on as OC and looking at his track record, I'm going to say the scheme isn't working. It never has since the NE guys got here. How long and how many picks did it takes for the 06 crew to fix the line? Has Andy Reid ever had a poor oline? I think Campen can do what he needs to do, but this playcalling has too many tells to be effective.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm a block people type of guy. Because Kelley was kept on as OC and looking at his track record, I'm going to say the scheme isn't working. It never has since the NE guys got here. How long and how many picks did it takes for the 06 crew to fix the line? Has Andy Reid ever had a poor oline? I think Campen can do what he needs to do, but this playcalling has too many tells to be effective.
I can agree with this.

Scarnecchecia isn't walking through the doors down on Kirby.

Also very astute talking about the tells in this offense. Some are very obvious. We used to talk about how predictable Kubiak's offense was. But Kelly's is even more obvious. What I wonder is why Culley didn't install his offense and teach Kelly how to run it the way Kelly wants it to be run?
 


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