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Week 17 - Jags vs Texans: The "Why Win?" Bowl

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
NRG stadium will host another game that's only meaning is draft position for the Texans.

Didn't see last week's game as i was in Utah. I hate to root against my team, but there's zero to gain for a Texans W. I may not go or tune in to this debacle.

Week 17 map.JPG

These TV maps always seem so random to me.
 

Texazan

Our HOF 34
NRG stadium will host another game that's only meaning is draft position for the Texans.



Didn't see last week's game as i was in Utah. I hate to root against my team, but there's zero to gain for a Texans W. I may not go or tune in to this debacle.

View attachment 11351

These TV maps always seem so random to me.
Hate doing it and hate admitting it and maybe it won’t matter after all but I’m looking for a loss.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
We will lose this one and win the last one giving us three wins and a possible number 2 pick instead of the first one. Now if we win the last two, that means Lovie, Pep, Mills, all of them back for another go at it next year. With at least one of our 1st round picks being on IR.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
If the Jags are thinking long term here, since this game has absolutely zero impact on their playoff chances, I think they'd be better off having the Texans win and screw up them possibly getting a QB that would make it tougher for the Jags to compete with the next few years. Of course it may not matter if Lawrence continues elevating his game.

Of course with the Texans always seeming to be a short-sighted organization, they'll be doing everything they can to win.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
No, you try to win. A winning culture is what good coaches/staff try to create.
The Texans don't have a good staff. This is not a winning culture. Meaningless wins at the end of a horrendous season do not translate to the following season. We've seen that over and over.

I don't know for certain if having the 1st pick will be substantially more advantageous than having the 2nd pick. But at least the Texans would be master of their own destiny. That is more important than a who cares game.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
The Texans don't have a good staff. This is not a winning culture. Meaningless wins at the end of a horrendous season do not translate to the following season. We've seen that over and over.

I don't know for certain if having the 1st pick will be substantially more advantageous than having the 2nd pick. But at least the Texans would be master of their own destiny. That is more important than a who cares game.
I watched a snippet from the locker room after the Texans beat the Tits - they were extremely pleased with the win.
It's a totally different mindset from not giving a rats you know what.
Every year we see surprises with who gets taken - prospects we didn't expect to fall do fall so I reckon #2 is a better position to be in and that is a better trade chip as no-one wants to trade for the very expensive #1 pick - especially when there is no super duper #1 prospect.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
No, you try to win. A winning culture is what good coaches/staff try to create.
Personally, I don't care if we draft #1 or #5 in this draft - let the chips fall where they may.
We will still have a shot to pick up some great prospects and still have Cleveland's pick around #11.
In the middle of the season, sure, let the chips fall where they may. At the end of the season when you're sitting on 2 wins and the #1 pick is in your grasp, why suffer through a season like that and ruin your draft position and possibly future by winning some meaningless games at the end? Ask the Jets how that worked out for them. They had Lawrence, won 2 meaningless games at the end and ended up with Wilson who they are already ready to move on from.

Sure, nobody knows how the picks will pan out, if 1 is any better than 4 and so on, but like Lucky said, master of their own destiny.

4 wins is not the bar and does not make for a winning culture.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
In the middle of the season, sure, let the chips fall where they may. At the end of the season when you're sitting on 2 wins and the #1 pick is in your grasp, why suffer through a season like that and ruin your draft position and possibly future by winning some meaningless games at the end? Ask the Jets how that worked out for them. They had Lawrence, won 2 meaningless games at the end and ended up with Wilson who they are already ready to move on from.

Sure, nobody knows how the picks will pan out, if 1 is any better than 4 and so on, but like Lucky said, master of their own destiny.

4 wins is not the bar and does not make for a winning culture.
Sure but the players and Lovie were up beat about coming within a hair of beating some highly fancied teams throughout the season.
Why deliberately tank now and crush that desire to win all for rookies who could just as easily be busts? Finishing on a high note augers well for the next season.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Sure but the players and Lovie were up beat about coming within a hair of beating some highly fancied teams throughout the season.
Why deliberately tank now and crush that desire to win all for rookies who could just as easily be busts? Finishing on a high note augers well for the next season.
Right, because winning 2 of the last 4 last year worked out so well for this year.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
Right, because winning 2 of the last 4 last year worked out so well for this year.
This team is still in a rebuild so one would think another draft will help bring in some new blood.
We also have a full cash book to bring some vet talent in so I'm gonna wait before giving up on next season.
Any incoming vets would be more impressed with a competitive team than one that rolls over for a couple of draft positions.
 

JRingo

Waterboy
Can the Texans be listening to offers for #1 pick now or is that prohibited? My memory fails me as usual..
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
No, you try to win. A winning culture is what good coaches/staff try to create.
Personally, I don't care if we draft #1 or #5 in this draft - let the chips fall where they may.
We will still have a shot to pick up some great prospects and still have Cleveland's pick around #11.
So then you are OK with trading our two first round picks for two seventh round picks ?
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
Can the Texans be listening to offers for #1 pick now or is that prohibited? My memory fails me as usual..
Not having the pick yet would seem to be a pointless exercise. And there can be no trades until the beginning of the new league year.
 

JRingo

Waterboy
Not having the pick yet would seem to be a pointless exercise. And there can be no trades until the beginning of the new league year.
My real question is whether or not there is a league rule against any discussion between teams prior to a certain date
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The Texans don't have a good staff. This is not a winning culture. Meaningless wins at the end of a horrendous season do not translate to the following season. We've seen that over and over.
That win against Tennessee was meaningless. One bad team beating another bad team in the middle of a six game losing streak. Meaningless, though I would have been upset had they lost.

The Jags have won 5 of their last 7. Only one quality win. Not an elite team but it would go a long way helping me believe the Texans aren’t wasting time & ruining players.

I wanted Lovie Fired about four games ago. Most don’t agree with me, but if we’re going to be hiring another HC, I want Caserio gone as well.

Playing well against the Cowboys & Chiefs was “okay” but the Jags ain’t them. If they don’t win, I want them all gone.

But that’s just me. I’d feel like 2023 is a wasted season if any of them are still here.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
But that’s just me. I’d feel like 2023 is a wasted season if any of them are still here.
Out of the 20 or so years of the Texans existence, how many of the Texans seasons were a waste? Half? More than half? Less that half?

My answer to that would be at a minimum, half. If it were to fall to either side of "half", it would be more than half. By that reasoning we should all be used to it by now, but we're not.

We're Cleveland or Detroit South, not New England South. It'd be cool to watch the Texans destroy the Jaggies on Sunday, to knock the **** out of that long haired SOB throwing the ball and then cut off all his ******* hair and string a football from the stadium roof with it. (Don't worry, there'd be plenty of hair left over if they did)

If we can't have nice things, I don't want anybody to have any.
 
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edo783

Hall of Fame
Frankly I'm not sure if any of this will really matter. We could take the first pick he craters on us. We could take the fourth pick and he craters. Even the eleventh pick can crater, so in my opinion, sit back, get some popcorn and enjoy the show. There isn't a darn thing we can do about it and it will play out the way its going to. If we could actually influence what will happen that would be different. Me, I think I would prefer us to have pick number one, but it certainly wouldn't be a bad thing to have pick two its all a crapshoot anyway. (when I say we I mean the fans)
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
My real question is whether or not there is a league rule against any discussion between teams prior to a certain date
I'm not sure how that would be enforced, if it were. I think as a general rule, most teams keep things close to the vest until they're ready to deal. Except maybe the Cowboys, who don't mind people taking snapshots of their draft board.

 

djohn2oo8

All Pro
The Texans don't have a good staff. This is not a winning culture. Meaningless wins at the end of a horrendous season do not translate to the following season. We've seen that over and over.

I don't know for certain if having the 1st pick will be substantially more advantageous than having the 2nd pick. But at least the Texans would be master of their own destiny. That is more important than a who cares game.
Chicago is not taking a QB. So the Texans will still have their destiny in their hands
 

djohn2oo8

All Pro
That win against Tennessee was meaningless. One bad team beating another bad team in the middle of a six game losing streak. Meaningless, though I would have been upset had they lost.

The Jags have won 5 of their last 7. Only one quality win. Not an elite team but it would go a long way helping me believe the Texans aren’t wasting time & ruining players.

I wanted Lovie Fired about four games ago. Most don’t agree with me, but if we’re going to be hiring another HC, I want Caserio gone as well.

Playing well against the Cowboys & Chiefs was “okay” but the Jags ain’t them. If they don’t win, I want them all gone.

But that’s just me. I’d feel like 2023 is a wasted season if any of them are still here.
What has me down on Caserio is Stingley. He didn’t either care or do research regarding his injury history. I don’t think they fire Lovie I think they do fire Pep. But regardless, Caserio must draft well this time.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
What has me down on Caserio is Stingley. He didn’t either care or do research regarding his injury history. I don’t think they fire Lovie I think they do fire Pep. But regardless, Caserio must draft well this time.
Except Stingley was not a Caserio pick
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Draft picks? I'll stick with the ol famous saying "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". Vince Lombardi/Red Saunders
And when Lombardi said that he was probably winning a bunch of championships.

Winning a 3rd or 4th game in a lost season doesn’t do anything. Why would anyone want to suffer that kind of season then not even have the best outcome they could have from it?
 

JRingo

Waterboy
I'm not sure how that would be enforced, if it were. I think as a general rule, most teams keep things close to the vest until they're ready to deal. Except maybe the Cowboys, who don't mind people taking snapshots of their draft board.

Thank you
 

TexanBorn51

Veteran
And when Lombardi said that he was probably winning a bunch of championships.

Winning a 3rd or 4th game in a lost season doesn’t do anything. Why would anyone want to suffer that kind of season then not even have the best outcome they could have from it?
they have 12 picks and a bunch more next year. draft picks high or low is a crap shoot not guaranteed
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
they have 12 picks and a bunch more next year. draft picks high or low is a crap shoot not guaranteed
Of course it’s a crapshoot, but you’d still rather have a better pick, in each round BTW, than not have it. Again, I bring up the Jets. Would they rather have Lawrence or those 2 late season wins that lost them Lawrence where they had to settle for Wilson, who they’re already wanting to move on from?
 

KA4Texan

I'm not eating crickets.
Contributor's Club
I think we all know you don't play to win.

The NFL being a young persons game.... its obviously all about the participation trophies.

Although not directed at me... I want the Texans to win if they can win.

Im alive today.... Im not promised to see next season.

Tanking is stupid IMO since draft choices arent guaranteed to pay off.

Yes, you COULD end up with a future HOF..... you could also end up with HWSNBN.....

If they don't win it wont ruin my life, nor would it make it if they win. I just think if you play to lose... EVER then you shouldn't be on the field.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Why win? To show the jaggie cubs that even on our worst day we still own them.

Furthermore, losing can manifest as a culture and you don’t want to give that **** any more of an opportunity to take hold than you have to.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Except Stingley was not a Caserio pick
:thinking:

Pretty sure it was his handwriting on the card.

I don’t think Stingley was a bad choice. In the long run he might have been the best choice (don’t really like Mr Social Media Guy). But he has the final say.

But if we’re going to “isolate” our GM from the #3 overall pick, we don’t have a GM. Better to get it over with & move on
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So you want the Texans to win the next two?
If they already made up their mind Lovie &/or Pep are staying, yes. I want them to win to prove they can coach.

if they already made up their minds Lovie & Pep are gone, it doesn’t matter. Lose & take the higher pick.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yes, you COULD end up with a future HOF..... you could also end up with HWSNBN.....
Best player the Texans drafted was either the 3rd or 11th overall selection, depending on your perspective.

HWSNBN was 1st overall


just saying
 

KA4Texan

I'm not eating crickets.
Contributor's Club
Best player the Texans drafted was either the 3rd or 11th overall selection, depending on your perspective.

HWSNBN was 1st overall


just saying
Exactly. Thats why I don't support tanking.

In theory, strategically I get it.... but without guaranteed pay off (which as you know draft picks arent) I'll take the wins where we can get them.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
:thinking:

Pretty sure it was his handwriting on the card.

I don’t think Stingley was a bad choice. In the long run he might have been the best choice (don’t really like Mr Social Media Guy). But he has the final say.

But if we’re going to “isolate” our GM from the #3 overall pick, we don’t have a GM. Better to get it over with & move on
There you go with your semantics again. You like digging rabbit holes as much as steelbtexan does
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
If they already made up their mind Lovie &/or Pep are staying, yes. I want them to win to prove they can coach.

if they already made up their minds Lovie & Pep are gone, it doesn’t matter. Lose & take the higher pick.
I wasn't asking you, I was asking @steelbtexan because he has embraced the tank all year
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Exactly. Thats why I don't support tanking.

In theory, strategically I get it.... but without guaranteed pay off (which as you know draft picks arent) I'll take the wins where we can get them.
And what does 3-13-1, or 4-12-1 get you? Sure, you've still got to hope the pick you make hits. And people have been bringing up plenty of examples. Watt taken 11th, Donald taken 13th. Hell, Mahommes was taken 10th. But there's also plenty of examples of if the Colts aren't #1 they don't get Peyton, unless the Bolts are still dumb enough to take Leaf #1. And the one I keep bringing up, the Jets. You think they, or their fans, would rather have those 2 meaningless late season wins or Trevor Lawrence?

None of us know if Bryce Young, or whoever the Texans are going to take will amount to anything, but when you suffer through a season like the Texans are, give yourself half a ******* chance at least. We all agree the draft is a crapshoot. Well then don't you at least want to give yourself the best odds you can? And again, it's not just the 1st pick in the 1st round. I think I saw where the Texans could fall as far as 4 if they win out. That's potentially picking 3 picks earlier, or later, in every round. Might could make a difference in a trade up not having to made or whatever.

The Jags had top 5 picks for most of the decade swinging and missing on Gabbert and Bortles and never went anywhere. The Texans very well could swing and miss too. But it finally looks like the Jags hit on a QB, and they finally might be taking off. The Texans have too many holes to be a team like the 49ers who can function without a top tier QB. If they don't get that QB, they will be the Jags for the next decade. But hey, yea for you to get to see those meaningless 3rd and 4th wins of a miserable season.

And let me be clear, if this is week 10, 12, I'm all about winning and letting the chips fall where they may. But we're at week 17 and 18, the end, you've been eliminated for weeks, and you control the #1 pick. Wins now don't matter for shit, and may even hold you back some.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
And what does 3-13-1, or 4-12-1 get you? Sure, you've still got to hope the pick you make hits. And people have been bringing up plenty of examples. Watt taken 11th, Donald taken 13th. Hell, Mahommes was taken 10th. But there's also plenty of examples of if the Colts aren't #1 they don't get Peyton, unless the Bolts are still dumb enough to take Leaf #1. And the one I keep bringing up, the Jets. You think they, or their fans, would rather have those 2 meaningless late season wins or Trevor Lawrence?

None of us know if Bryce Young, or whoever the Texans are going to take will amount to anything, but when you suffer through a season like the Texans are, give yourself half a ******* chance at least. We all agree the draft is a crapshoot. Well then don't you at least want to give yourself the best odds you can? And again, it's not just the 1st pick in the 1st round. I think I saw where the Texans could fall as far as 4 if they win out. That's potentially picking 3 picks earlier, or later, in every round. Might could make a difference in a trade up not having to made or whatever.

The Jags had top 5 picks for most of the decade swinging and missing on Gabbert and Bortles and never went anywhere. The Texans very well could swing and miss too. But it finally looks like the Jags hit on a QB, and they finally might be taking off. The Texans have too many holes to be a team like the 49ers who can function without a top tier QB. If they don't get that QB, they will be the Jags for the next decade. But hey, yea for you to get to see those meaningless 3rd and 4th wins of a miserable season.

And let me be clear, if this is week 10, 12, I'm all about winning and letting the chips fall where they may. But we're at week 17 and 18, the end, you've been eliminated for weeks, and you control the #1 pick. Wins now don't matter for shit, and may even hold you back some.
Ehh this is alot of drivel b/c how much more valuable is having the “Best odds” worth when it comes to something as subjective as this? Furthermore is it even quantifiable as it relates to the probability of picking a gplayer? Likely not at this point in the season. Barring a shitty draft of prospects overall, as long as you’re within the top 5, you’re likely to get a good player no matter who ypu select…..& in that regard, the Texans are assured of being in the top 5 at this point.

Teams in the NBA blatantly tank to try to get the #1 overall pick….only 3 times has the worst team actually ended up with the #1 overall pick since 1994.

i say all that to say, the Texans will likely get an impact player as long as tgey end up in the top 5……..no matter who they select.
 


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