Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

We may suck...

Dejaview

Veteran
We had some really good seasons under Kubiak. Hell many would argue that had Schaub not gotten hurt in 2011 we could of won it all. We had yates who only lost to the Ravens by 3 points at their house. I like Kubiaks offense, I sure as hell liked him better than OB.
I am glad OB is gone but just as he continued his first down runs up the middle Kubiak kept calling those sideline routes that defenders kept jumping and converting into “Schaub’s”. but I had zero hope for his teams against the better NFL teams. they Never could get over the hump for whatever reason. Seemed to be a toughness issue IMO. But he was a nice guy.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
SMH

Did you feel this way with the mediocre seasons under Kubiak.
Kubiak's downfall was he was prone to hiring his friends as coaches instead of hiring good coaches which resulted in a lot of mediocre coaches which resulted in a lot of mediocre seasons. The one time I was in total agreement with Bob McNair's meddling was telling Kubiak they were going to hire Wade Phillips as the DC if Kubiak wanted to continue as HC of the Texans. This resulted in the Texans becoming one of the NFL's premier teams. Schaub's injury and McNair's temper ended that run. I sure would've liked to see Bob McNair say to Kubiak, Schaub is broke go find yourself another QB instead of firing him. Kubiak did a good job in finding Schaub.
 

mws

Waterboy
Kubiak never advanced any further in the playoffs than O'Brien. But in my opinion they played better in post season with Kubiak than we ever did under O'Brien. For one thing Kubiak never lost a wildcard game.

I believe the stats show better performance under Kubiak than O'Brien.

Playoff Record Under O'Brien:

Texans have been outscored 103 to 169 in 6 games.
Playoff Record 2-4 .333
Texans Avg Points per Game: 17
Opponents Avg Points per Game: 28

Playoff Record Under Kubiak:

Texans outscored their Opponents 91 to 84 in 4 games.
Playoff Record 2-2 .500
Texans Avg Points per Game: 23
Opponents Avg Points per Game: 21

My totally subjective impression from the tenure of both coaches is that in 2012 when we went 12-4 I went into the playoffs with very high hopes & a belief that we could advance at least to the AFCCG. I never felt that way under O'Brien. Two of the most humiliating losses the Texans have ever suffered came under O'Brien in the playoffs.

2015: Chiefs 30 Texans 0
2019: Chiefs 51 Texans 31

So objectively O'Brien & Kubiak both won 2 wildcard games. But speaking as a fan I enjoyed the 2011 season until Shaub got hurt & the 2012 season more than any other Texans season.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
It took 6 years and Wade Phillips as DC before Kubiak took the team to the playoffs. That's a lot of mediocrity.
Kubiak basically took over an expansion franchise as well. But he was way too loyal to some of his sorry ass coaches.

OB took over a much better team overall and did very little with it, to the point of tearing it down.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Kubiak never advanced any further in the playoffs than O'Brien. But in my opinion they played better in post season with Kubiak than we ever did under O'Brien. For one thing Kubiak never lost a wildcard game.

I believe the stats show better performance under Kubiak than O'Brien.

Playoff Record Under O'Brien:

Texans have been outscored 103 to 169 in 6 games.
Playoff Record 2-4 .333
Texans Avg Points per Game: 17
Opponents Avg Points per Game: 28

Playoff Record Under Kubiak:

Texans outscored their Opponents 91 to 84 in 4 games.
Playoff Record 2-2 .500
Texans Avg Points per Game: 23
Opponents Avg Points per Game: 21

My totally subjective impression from the tenure of both coaches is that in 2012 when we went 12-4 I went into the playoffs with very high hopes & a belief that we could advance at least to the AFCCG. I never felt that way under O'Brien. Two of the most humiliating losses the Texans have ever suffered came under O'Brien in the playoffs.

2015: Chiefs 30 Texans 0
2019: Chiefs 51 Texans 31

So objectively O'Brien & Kubiak both won 2 wildcard games. But speaking as a fan I enjoyed the 2011 season until Shaub got hurt & the 2012 season more than any other Texans season.
Both of them got to the same rd of the playoffs, no amount of stats or excuses are going to change that. I'm glad you enjoyed the mediocre Kubiak yrs as much or more than you enjoyed the mediocre BOB yrs. Let mediocrity reign.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Kubiak basically took over an expansion franchise as well. But he was way too loyal to some of his sorry ass coaches.

OB took over a much better team overall and did very little with it, to the point of tearing it down.
2-14 when Kubiak started

2-14 when BOB started

And they both achieved the same results. People have trouble getting around the numbers that rally count. Although they will go to great lengths trying to get around them.
 

mws

Waterboy
2-14 when Kubiak started

2-14 when BOB started

And they both achieved the same results. People have trouble getting around the numbers that rally count. Although they will go to great lengths trying to get around them.
I may not know what numbers count but at least I know what the numbers are. O'Brien never went 2-14. His worst season was 4-12 in 2017 & 2020.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I may not know what numbers count but at least I know what the numbers are. O'Brien never went 2-14. His worst season was 4-12 in 2017 & 2020.
My point was BOB/Kubiak both took over teams that had finished 2-14 the yr before they were hired.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Obviously we're never going to win any more playoff games with either Kubiak or OB, so what's the point? Other than OB sucks, which I'm always glad to be repetitive about.
 

DBCooper

Outlaw
Contributor's Club
2-14 when Kubiak started

2-14 when BOB started

And they both achieved the same results. People have trouble getting around the numbers that rally count. Although they will go to great lengths trying to get around them.
Culley should do twice as well then!
 

KA4Texan

Potatoes Have Eyes Everywhere!!
Contributor's Club
Kubiak - Competent mediocrity.
OB - Incompetent mediocrity.

Yes, one was better than the other but the margin between them isnt worth bickering over unless you like squawking like some old hen from The View.

I celebrated when Kubiak left. I celebrated when OB left.

I disliked Kubiak's mediocrity just as much as OB's... except for the year Kubiak brought us up from total garbage to mediocrity, at that point it wss improvement.

For that reason I have more fondness of Kubiak than OB, for that reason OB made me mildy miss Kubiak...... that and Kubes was never made ruler.....

But now that Kubiak and OB are gone.... all I can hope is that ownership and fan base has learn from the mjstakes of keeping both coaches around nuch longer than they should and demand better than mediocrity. Let both go and move on, demanding more than either men offer, not curled up crying on the couch like a broken hearted teen girl with a gallon of ice cream crying how much better her ex was before the most recent heart break.
 

whodknee

Working Class Hero
Sadly we may have a 7-10 team and drop out of a high pick. This franchise can blow a top 2 pick...We Got This should be the slogan
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Sadly we may have a 7-10 team and drop out of a high pick. This franchise can blow a top 2 pick...We Got This should be the slogan
I'd prefer us picking in the 11-27 range because that's where we've had the most success with our picks, although we have had 1 great pick in the top 3 and two mediocre ones.
 

banned1976

All Pro
I'd prefer us picking in the 11-27 range because that's where we've had the most success with our picks, although we have had 1 great pick in the top 3 and two mediocre ones.
It's been a mixed bag, really. Mario pick #1 of the 2006 draft, Amobi Okoye at #10 the following year. Then Duane Brown with the 26th pick in 2008 followed by Cushing in 2009 with the 15th pick.

One thing is for certain, though - the Texans have a better chance at drafting a good player with their first pick in 2022 than what's happened more often than not over the last 4 years.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Both of them got to the same rd of the playoffs, no amount of stats or excuses are going to change that. I'm glad you enjoyed the mediocre Kubiak yrs as much or more than you enjoyed the mediocre BOB yrs. Let mediocrity reign.
So, when O'Brien went on his "you suck too" rant. He could have also been speaking to Kubiak? Maybe, whenever we get into this Kubiak vs O'Brien debate we should simply end with "he sucked too".
 

texanhead08

All Pro
Both never got us to the promised land. I give Kubiak a slight nod because we had a top 10 offense with him and the 2011 remains the best team in Texans history.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So, when O'Brien went on his "you suck too" rant. He could have also been speaking to Kubiak? Maybe, whenever we get into this Kubiak vs O'Brien debate we should simply end with "he sucked too".
Both of them were avg and to conservative.

Kubiak was a good guy.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
It's been a mixed bag, really. Mario pick #1 of the 2006 draft, Amobi Okoye at #10 the following year. Then Duane Brown with the 26th pick in 2008 followed by Cushing in 2009 with the 15th pick.

One thing is for certain, though - the Texans have a better chance at drafting a good player with their first pick in 2022 than what's happened more often than not over the last 4 years.
That's what I'm disputing: that the Texans have a better chance of drafting a good player with their first pick if it's in the top 5-10. Watt, Watson, Hopkins, Brown, Cushing, Fuller, KJ: those are some good picks that were in the 11-27 range. If you look at it historically (even without limiting yourself to the Texans), most of the best picks of a draft end up NOT being in the top 5 or top 10 of the draft, but later in the first round.

Sure, common sense would tell you that if you've got the first pick, you could choose anyone and you would think you have a better chance of picking the best player in the draft... but that usually doesn't happen. The Niners took Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers dropped to the mid-20's. We took Jadeveon Clowney at #1 when the best players of that draft were probably Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, and Zack Martin... and after Clowney it was Greg Robinson, Blake Bortles, and Sammy Watkins.

It's really easy to get those high picks wrong. Easier than you would expect, or at least, easier than I expected.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
That's what I'm disputing: that the Texans have a better chance of drafting a good player with their first pick if it's in the top 5-10. Watt, Watson, Hopkins, Brown, Cushing, Fuller, KJ: those are some good picks that were in the 11-27 range. If you look at it historically (even without limiting yourself to the Texans), most of the best picks of a draft end up NOT being in the top 5 or top 10 of the draft, but later in the first round.

Sure, common sense would tell you that if you've got the first pick, you could choose anyone and you would think you have a better chance of picking the best player in the draft... but that usually doesn't happen. The Niners took Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers dropped to the mid-20's. We took Jadeveon Clowney at #1 when the best players of that draft were probably Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, and Zack Martin... and after Clowney it was Greg Robinson, Blake Bortles, and Sammy Watkins.

It's really easy to get those high picks wrong. Easier than you would expect, or at least, easier than I expected.
That's just it. It's really a crap shoot no matter where you're picking. Sometimes you get lucky by making the right pick, taking Peyton Manning instead of Ryan Leaf, sometimes you get lucky that someone else took Charles Rogers and left you with Andre Johnson. A lot more often than not, you blow it anyway.

There's no exact science to this or there wouldn't be 1st round busts or UDFA Pro-Bowlers.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Kubiak the head coach would have never let Kubiak the GM trade Hopkins for a bag of chips.

Just saying.
If Janice told him to he would or he would be fired.

Kinda like when Bob McNair told Kubiak to play Keenum. Kubiak resisted and was fired as soon as he got off of the plane. Gotta do what the boss tells you to do.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That's just it. It's really a crap shoot no matter where you're picking. Sometimes you get lucky by making the right pick, taking Peyton Manning instead of Ryan Leaf, sometimes you get lucky that someone else took Charles Rogers and left you with Andre Johnson. A lot more often than not, you blow it anyway.

There's no exact science to this or there wouldn't be 1st round busts or UDFA Pro-Bowlers.
Some are better than others.

Example: Ballard has done a great job with the Colts.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Other than the fact that they haven't won crap yet
Ballard gets A for effort and F for being unlucky. That's why Colts haven't won squat not for lack of effort/plan.

Really like their synergy in war room, Ballard and Reich are a dynamic tandem.

I'm obviously more interested in analyzing Tom Telesco. I honestly think he's not all that different than Rick Smith. O'Brian was death of him but did make trade up for Deshaun Watson to finally acquire a franchise QB. Telesco was able to draft Herbert with Lynn as head coach, before Lynn got the boot. Before both of those home runs, these GMs struggled mightily. Until this year and hiring of Branden Staley and his staff, all of a sudden, 2021 Draft is turning into the Chargers best of all time. Darn near half will start, rest will contribute or start in the future.

Key point, its not enough to have a great GM and Head Coach on the same page w/input from an experienced staff, there is also a lot of luck involved. From a player falling in the draft to your slot, or staying healthy so they can execute on the field, having learning experiences and teaching moments that stick. There's such a large docket of processes that need to come together, that it seldom ever does.
 
Last edited:

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Ballard gets A for effort and F for being unlucky. That's why Colts haven't won squat not for lack of effort/plan.
Understood. I just don't like the way some will point to a guy like Ballard as a model of success while continually griping about the Texans. There were a few years where the Texans fielded both a top 10 offense & defense, but questionable coaching/game management, or injury prevented them from getting past the divisional round.
 


Top