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Watson through 3 Games

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
At times, Watson misses open receivers.
Yes he does. But guess what? ALL QBs do. Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Montana, and even the great Ryan Tannehill. They all miss.

The problem here is a handful of people picking out those misses and placing the bulk of the Texans woes on that.

Again I ask the question, if you don’t think Watson is the answer, who is it that can come here, run this pathetic offense, and win games at a better rate than Watson?

Yes, Watson could stand to play better, but he ain’t the problem.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
View attachment 6686
He has downfield options, even with pressure he is going to have to learn to navigate the pocket vs escape mode. It takes time to master that in those who possess his escapability.
Look at the TE in the middle of the field; he started out by helping the RT and stemmed roughly 3 yards from the LOS (about the same level of the RB in that photo).
When he was crossing the middle of the field, the throwing lane to him was hindered by the RB who ran the shallower route from the other side.

IMO, a better play design would be to have the RB help out the LT to make sure that he can redirect the RDE as deep as possible.
By the time he came up as the third read, he wouldn't be hindering Watson's line of vision.

Also, have the TE adjusting his route into the middle deeper; he would still have been wide open in the zone.

One stone kills several birds.
Better blocking and better throwing lane for the QB, better position for the receiver (the TE) to make the catch and have a great shot at the FG.
 
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Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Where are the "No one's open" people at ?!

That seam route is as open as they get.

The two underneath routes are literally uncovered.
In typical Texans fashion, they are nowhere near a first down marker on a 3rd a 15. As a matter of fact, they look like they are around the LOS.

I just don't see those as truly viable "successful options", even though they are technically "open receivers".

Circumstances should matter in objective evaluations.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
In typical Texans fashion, they are nowhere near a first down marker on a 3rd a 15. As a matter of fact, they look like they are around the LOS.

I just don't see those as truly viable "successful options", even though they are technically "open receivers".

Circumstances should matter in objective evaluations.

How many plays are in the book for 3rd and 15 ? .... Its just not something teams convert much.

You are right , those two shallow guys are uncovered for a reason - the defense was conceding the short stuff to ensure they didn't give up the 1st yet the seam route was there to be had too.
There weren't just two underneath routes open on this play , there were 3 openings , one of them deep middle.

But on your point of circumstances - There's the fact that they were at the fringes of FG range .... 3rd and 15. What's the worst that can happen ? A sack (or turnover).
Look downfield , if its not there take that underneath route , maybe he breaks a tackle and gets the 1st - At worst you are 5-10 yards closer for a FG try .... or a potential 4th down attempt. Taking a sack is worst case scenario.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
We weren’t losing until the DW4 int. and we were actually running uptempo at the time of the int.
Did you notice when they stayed with a certain personel, no huddle, they moved the ball down the field? Why? Once you get the defense in what you want, keep them in it, stay at the los, and you keep the defense simple. 2nd half, they were in 3rd and long because 1st and 2nd down yielded basically nothing. Why didn't you come out the same way as you did at the end of the 1st half?
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
How many plays are in the book for 3rd and 15 ? .... Its just not something teams convert much.

You are right , those two shallow guys are uncovered for a reason - the defense was conceding the short stuff to ensure they didn't give up the 1st yet the seam route was there to be had too.
There weren't just two underneath routes open on this play , there were 3 openings , one of them deep middle.

But on your point of circumstances - There's the fact that they were at the fringes of FG range .... 3rd and 15. What's the worst that can happen ? A sack (or turnover).
Look downfield , if its not there take that underneath route , maybe he breaks a tackle and gets the 1st - At worst you are 5-10 yards closer for a FG try .... or a potential 4th down attempt. Taking a sack is worst case scenario.
I don't disagree with you, but I do not put all of the blame on one player for all of the above.

While Watson certainly deserves his share of the blame, what I'm also seeing is a breakdown at all levels: poor schemes and uneven play calling, lack of consistent separation by WRs, and a very inconsistent pass protection.

Through three games - that I never expected a win - I'm not seeing a cohesive team. I'm seeing 2005-style Texans dysfunction. It permeates the entire franchise.

So while some of the criticism of Watson is certainly valid and has merit, I'm just not seeing him as the primary source of the entire team's piss-poor performances.

As far as the 3rd & 15 scenario, you're right. And this is where Watson has to stop trying to be Superman and rescue this Lois Lane team. He's got to learn that he cannot carry the entire team on his back, and, sometimes he just has to accept his own limitations instead of making preventable mistakes.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
I don't disagree with you, but I do not put all of the blame on one player for all of the above.

While Watson certainly deserves his share of the blame, what I'm also seeing is a breakdown at all levels: poor schemes and uneven play calling, lack of consistent separation by WRs, and a very inconsistent pass protection.

Through three games - that I never expected a win - I'm not seeing a cohesive team. I'm seeing 2005-style Texans dysfunction. It permeates the entire franchise.

So while some of the criticism of Watson is certainly valid and has merit, I'm just not seeing him as the primary source of the entire team's piss-poor performances.

As far as the 3rd & 15 scenario, you're right. And this is where Watson has to stop trying to be Superman and rescue this Lois Lane team. He's got to learn that he cannot carry the entire team on his back, and, sometimes he just has to accept his own limitations instead of making preventable mistakes.
Has OB finally wore out his welcome with the Texans players?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
How many plays are in the book for 3rd and 15 ? .... Its just not something teams convert much.

You are right , those two shallow guys are uncovered for a reason - the defense was conceding the short stuff to ensure they didn't give up the 1st yet the seam route was there to be had too.
There weren't just two underneath routes open on this play , there were 3 openings , one of them deep middle.

But on your point of circumstances - There's the fact that they were at the fringes of FG range .... 3rd and 15. What's the worst that can happen ? A sack (or turnover).
Look downfield , if its not there take that underneath route , maybe he breaks a tackle and gets the 1st - At worst you are 5-10 yards closer for a FG try .... or a potential 4th down attempt. Taking a sack is worst case scenario.
As I had said; the receivers were "so called" open ONLY when the QB wasn't in the position to make the throw.

It doesn't matter if NOBODY was on a receiver when the QB can't throw the ball.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
As I had said; the receivers were "so called" open ONLY when the QB wasn't in the position to make the throw.

It doesn't matter if NOBODY was on a receiver when the QB can't throw the ball.
You really don't know what the hell you're talking about. You are taught since like high school that at the top of your drop off the hitch & gather, the ball needs to be coming out or should be coming out very very soon after.

This is what it looked like for Watson at the top of his drop, hitch and gather:
1601406952280.png
The screen shot above even encapsulates him sliding forward a little off his hitch step b/c he sensed a little of the pressure. And if you watch the play REALLY close, it appears that after he slid forward, he reset his feet very very quickly to actually throw it...I presume deep b/c it was his 1st read. Instead he thought better of it.....WHY? B/C IT WASN'T THERE!! Right at that point, his eyes dropped and he began to scramble, no doubt looking..& feeling the pass rush. But instead of looking at the pass rush, perhaps look at 1 of your check downs there? I mean that's what they're there for..to bail you out. Akins and DJ31 are literally right in his line of sight.

Me highlighting this isn't trying to bash the kid..He is my guy, he is who i wanted them to draft. Yes, every QB misses guys..but in this particular instance..this very play, it was a poor decision. That's all i've been trying to say.

That's it im done.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
You really don't know what the hell you're talking about. You are taught since like high school that at the top of your drop off the hitch & gather, the ball needs to be coming out or should be coming out very very soon after.

This is what it looked like for Watson at the top of his drop, hitch and gather:
View attachment 6688
The screen shot above even encapsulates him sliding forward a little off his hitch step b/c he sensed a little of the pressure. And if you watch the play REALLY close, it appears that after he slid forward, he reset his feet very very quickly to actually throw it...I presume deep b/c it was his 1st read. Instead he thought better of it.....WHY? B/C IT WASN'T THERE!! Right at that point, his eyes dropped and he began to scramble, no doubt looking..& feeling the pass rush. But instead of looking at the pass rush, perhaps look at 1 of your check downs there? I mean that's what they're there for..to bail you out. Akins and DJ31 are literally right in his line of sight.

Me highlighting this isn't trying to bash the kid..He is my guy, he is who i wanted them to draft. Yes, every QB misses guys..but in this particular instance..this very play, it was a poor decision. That's all i've been trying to say.

That's it im done.
I'll look at it again.
But yes, let's move on.
Enough have been said.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Did you notice when they stayed with a certain personel, no huddle, they moved the ball down the field? Why? Once you get the defense in what you want, keep them in it, stay at the los, and you keep the defense simple. 2nd half, they were in 3rd and long because 1st and 2nd down yielded basically nothing. Why didn't you come out the same way as you did at the end of the 1st half?
I very much agree with you...& the reason you don't come out like you did in the 1st half is b/c you need to be able to catch the defense in the personnel package you want them to be in.......which is pretty hard to do..................if you can't establish the run and you have to actually get some momentum with a positive play... #98 Williams the run stuffing linebacker was the guy it appears they were keying on. When he's on the field and you have your 11 personnel out there, you want that guy in pass coverage vs any of your skill guys. that's where establishing the run game comes into play. He ain't gonna be out there except on running downs which is basically 1st, maybe 2nd down......if we could've actually established the run game. But they were doing such a good job on 1st down shutting it down, dude was basically out there for 1 play every time we got a 1st..which wasn't all that often in the 2nd half. It appears the Steelers were very cognizant of this.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I very much agree with you...& the reason you don't come out like you did in the 1st half is b/c you need to be able to catch the defense in the personnel package you want them to be in.......which is pretty hard to do..................if you can't establish the run and you have to actually get some momentum with a positive play... #98 Williams the run stuffing linebacker was the guy it appears they were keying on. When he's on the field and you have your 11 personnel out there, you want that guy in pass coverage vs any of your skill guys. that's where establishing the run game comes into play. He ain't gonna be out there except on running downs which is basically 1st, maybe 2nd down......if we could've actually established the run game. But they were doing such a good job on 1st down shutting it down, dude was basically out there for 1 play every time we got a 1st..which wasn't all that often in the 2nd half. It appears the Steelers were very cognizant of this.
Counter punching vs dictate the defense.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
To dictate you need momentum, positive plays, downs and distances, without any of that you can't dictate to the defense anything.
The Texans took the lead early in the first quarter.
The Steelers led only briefly in the second quarter before the Texans reclaimed it.
They led to start the half and didn't relinquish it until later in the fourth.

I agree with LeeB.
OBrien should have stepped on it.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
To dictate you need momentum, positive plays, downs and distances, without any of that you can't dictate to the defense anything.
After playing throw and catch at the end of the 1st half, the defense got a 3 and out. 1st 2 plays were gut runs that were almost blown up in the backfield. Why?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The Texans took the lead early in the first quarter.
The Steelers led only briefly in the second quarter before the Texans reclaimed it.
They led to start the half and didn't relinquish it until later in the fourth.

I agree with LeeB.
OBrien should have stepped on it.
Of course you do...b/c it’s that easy to you.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
After playing throw and catch at the end of the 1st half, the defense got a 3 and out. 1st 2 plays were gut runs that were almost blown up in the backfield. Why?
again b/c you have to try to establish the run and at least make the defense possibly believe that you will and can run it at any point. It does 2 things. 1 it balances you on offense and 2, it increases the odds that you can catch the Steelers in that personnel package that you want to run the uptempo style against...which basically means Williams that run stuffing MLB for the Steelers is on the field more.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
again b/c you have to try to establish the run and at least make the defense possibly believe that you will and can run it at any point. It does 2 things. 1 it balances you on offense and 2, it increases the odds that you can catch the Steelers in that personnel package that you want to run the uptempo style against...which basically means Williams that run stuffing MLB for the Steelers is on the field more.
It does nothing but digs a nasty hole for the offense when a HC realizes his running game suched arse in the 1st half. When the running game generated another hole after the defense amazingly stopped the Steelers on their first drive of the 2nd half.....he should've immediately shelved the run and went pass to set-up the run. Especially when his overmatched defense gifted him with a second consecutive stop. He gifted the defense with another 3 and out. Then told them to get back out there and hold'em.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame


It does nothing but digs a nasty hole for the offense when a HC realizes his running game suched arse in the 1st half. When the running game generated another hole after the defense amazingly stopped the Steelers on their first drive of the 2nd half.....he should've immediately shelved the run and went pass to set-up the run. Especially when his overmatched defense gifted him with a second consecutive stop. He gifted the defense with another 3 and out. Then told them to get back out there and hold'em.

Exactly, I don’t under why this dude is so hung up on establishing the run theory. It wasn’t working and it was putting those particular series/drives in a hole. 29 rushing yards for the entire game.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
Look at the TE in the middle of the field; he started out by helping the RT and stemmed roughly 3 yards from the LOS (about the same level of the RB in that photo).
When he was crossing the middle of the field, the throwing lane to him was hindered by the RB who ran the shallower route from the other side.

IMO, a better play design would be to have the RB help out the LT to make sure that he can redirect the RDE as deep as possible.
By the time he came up as the third read, he wouldn't be hindering Watson's line of vision.

Also, have the TE adjusting his route into the middle deeper; he would still have been wide open in the zone.

One stone kills several birds.
Better blocking and better throwing lane for the QB, better position for the receiver (the TE) to make the catch and have a great shot at the FG.
He had options was the only premise. QBs have to perform in seconds or less at all times regardless of the circumstances around them. Who knows what the designed progressions are or what's going through DW4's head in the heat of the moment. I have no idea of the football acumen of these player's ability to understand AND execute post snap route adjustments based on positioning of the defenders. The QB and the receivers must read and react in sync in this offense and I have yet to see the Texans execute it consistently since OB arrived. I fully believe Watson is franchise QB who the offense should be built around. OB just isn't the right HC to do it. OB has had mediocre and bad QBs before but now he has one with above average talent and he still can't maximize the offensive production. The OL is another bad story best to be left at the bottom of Lake Houston.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
again b/c you have to try to establish the run and at least make the defense possibly believe that you will and can run it at any point. It does 2 things. 1 it balances you on offense and 2, it increases the odds that you can catch the Steelers in that personnel package that you want to run the uptempo style against...which basically means Williams that run stuffing MLB for the Steelers is on the field more.
SmartSelect_20200929-182928_Chrome.gif
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
again b/c you have to try to establish the run and at least make the defense possibly believe that you will and can run it at any point. It does 2 things. 1 it balances you on offense and 2, it increases the odds that you can catch the Steelers in that personnel package that you want to run the uptempo style against...which basically means Williams that run stuffing MLB for the Steelers is on the field more.
SmartSelect_20200929-184406_Chrome.gif
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
again b/c you have to try to establish the run and at least make the defense possibly believe that you will and can run it at any point. It does 2 things. 1 it balances you on offense and 2, it increases the odds that you can catch the Steelers in that personnel package that you want to run the uptempo style against...which basically means Williams that run stuffing MLB for the Steelers is on the field more.
SmartSelect_20200929-184655_Chrome.gif
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Exactly, I don’t under why this dude is so hung up on establishing the run theory. It wasn’t working and it was putting those particular series/drives in a hole. 29 rushing yards for the entire game.
that wasn’t the only thing putting us in a hole in those series/drives is what y’all aren’t grasping.

and yeah, they didn’t run it well. What are u gonna do? Voluntarily make yourself 1 dimensional and stop trying run it all together? C’mon man y’all aren’t being realistic.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
again b/c you have to try to establish the run and at least make the defense possibly believe that you will and can run it at any point. It does 2 things. 1 it balances you on offense and 2, it increases the odds that you can catch the Steelers in that personnel package that you want to run the uptempo style against...which basically means Williams that run stuffing MLB for the Steelers is on the field more.
SmartSelect_20200929-185237_Chrome.gif
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
that wasn’t the only thing putting us in a hole in those series/drives is what y’all aren’t grasping.

and yeah, they didn’t run it well. What are u gonna do? Voluntarily make yourself 1 dimensional and stop trying run it all together? C’mon man y’all aren’t being realistic.
I'm not picking on you, I just don't know how to combine the videos. After that drive and a 3 and out by the defense, I'm going to post the next series by the Texans.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
To dictate you need momentum, positive plays, downs and distances, without any of that you can't dictate to the defense anything.
I mentioned it somewhere before, not sure what drive it was, first play... chunk play. Hurry up offense, line up, run it up the guards ass for 2 yards. Just, noooo!
give me another shot play! Tell the D, here stop this!
 

Max

Veteran
I thought that this game showed the type of offense that BOB's been trying to move Watson towards all along -- traditional shotgun w/out the fake rpo crap where the OLine holds their block long enough for the qb to make the read and get rid of the ball. Nothing fancy -- the stuff all of us have watched for decades watching NFL football, but the OLine has to hold their blocks long enough for this to work. But we've never been able to do it w/ our OLine (which is amazing). The fake rpo offense was to help the OLine and hopefully give Watson an extra half second to make the read. I'm not saying that this is the first time we've run this offense w/ Watson, but it was one of the first times that the OLine actually looked up to the task in the first half and we stuck with it and it showed that Watson can succeed with this O. Personally, I think that there's a dozen qb's in the league who can run that type of an offense better than Watson. Irregardless if that's true or not, any qb running that offense needs an OLine that can hold their blocks and BOB has proven in spectacular fashion that he in incapable of fielding an OLine that is capable of that. Watson is capable of running a traditional dropback offense well, but I think that he's even more dangerous and effective when the defense has to contend with his legs and the possibility that he could use his legs on any given play. BOB's moved away from that. Maybe for good reason to prolong his career, but he's moved away from it nonetheless. My hope is that we find a coach that will design an offense more in line w/ Watson's skillset and that coach can settle the argument for us rather than all of us wondering what Watson could have been.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
As far as the 3rd & 15 scenario, you're right. And this is where Watson has to stop trying to be Superman and rescue this Lois Lane team
Just to be clear.


Now we want our QB to throw short of the sticks. Completely opposite of all the btching we've been doing for 6 years?

I checked my spam folder & it's not there, I guess I didn't get the memo.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
that wasn’t the only thing putting us in a hole in those series/drives is what y’all aren’t grasping.

and yeah, they didn’t run it well. What are u gonna do? Voluntarily make yourself 1 dimensional and stop trying run it all together? C’mon man y’all aren’t being realistic.
Run some running back screens , get the running back out in the flat and hit him quickly.

In some of those clips leebigeztx in which we ran, why aren’t we having these linemen pulling. They are not winning at the point of attack and you want them to continue to run this crap. You’re not making any sense just like O’Brien Jr wasn’t making any sense.

Yes we need to establish the run. Right now it’s the biggest weakness to our system. With it the play action would be effective. You can control the time of possession better. But during this game you needed to go air happy and let that thing fly. We should’ve anti upped the tempo to keep the defense on their heels. Sometimes the pass could open up the running game. Go look at the Chiefs last season as an example.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Just to be clear.


Now we want our QB to throw short of the sticks. Completely opposite of all the btching we've been doing for 6 years?

I checked my spam folder & it's not there, I guess I didn't get the memo.
You probably have an auto delete rule on your spam folder. It's the same rule that deleted the other memo that if you have a HOF WR, you can be criticized for targeting him too much or the one about your offense can be better without said HOF WR.
:shades:
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It's statements like this that riles up the other side and make people feel they have to come out and defend DW4. Saying he'll never win a championship is absolutely ridiculous. @Corrosion and @Mr teX have been critical of DW4, but they do it in a much more constructive manner IMO. Football is a team sport, it takes multiple people, multiple facets to be a championship caliber team. What riles people up is that you repeatedly single out just one person, and it's solely his fault on why he'll never win.
Unless he greatly improves, which he hasn't in 4 yrs then I will stand by my statement. Sorry some get their feeling hurt but this truth is unlikely to change.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Just to be clear.


Now we want our QB to throw short of the sticks. Completely opposite of all the btching we've been doing for 6 years?

I checked my spam folder & it's not there, I guess I didn't get the memo.
If you can get the chance for a FG to put you ahead then certainly. Also which has a better chance of succeeding? Throwing the ball up for grabs, or throwing it short like DW4 did to Duke in the Buffalo game and hope he breaks a tackle or two. (That was one of the biggest plays in that game and yes I would like to see more of this)
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He had options was the only premise. QBs have to perform in seconds or less at all times regardless of the circumstances around them. Who knows what the designed progressions are or what's going through DW4's head in the heat of the moment. I have no idea of the football acumen of these player's ability to understand AND execute post snap route adjustments based on positioning of the defenders. The QB and the receivers must read and react in sync in this offense and I have yet to see the Texans execute it consistently since OB arrived. I fully believe Watson is franchise QB who the offense should be built around. OB just isn't the right HC to do it. OB has had mediocre and bad QBs before but now he has one with above average talent and he still can't maximize the offensive production. The OL is another bad story best to be left at the bottom of Lake Houston.
Avg talent would be closer to the truth. Above avg QB's teams dont get shut out in the 2nd half of games.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
A couple of big plays a game will get you between 17-21 pts per game not enough to win consistently.
Do some research on all the QBs like Brady, Mahomes, Rogers, Big Ben, Brees, Russell, and all...
Then tell me how many big plays they average a game.
I'll be waiting a long time.
You know why?
'Cause you won't spend the time; you just assume things. :corrosion:
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Unless he greatly improves, which he hasn't in 4 yrs then I will stand by my statement. Sorry some get their feeling hurt but this truth is unlikely to change.
That's your prerogative. Just sayin'... if you're sick & tired of the DW4 apologists, then maybe you wanna tone down the same rhetoric that you keep saying over and over in every thread. We all know your stance.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That's your prerogative. Just sayin'... if you're sick & tired of the DW4 apologists, then maybe you wanna tone down the same rhetoric that you keep saying over and over in every thread. We all know your stance.
Back at you.

I guess some are figuring it out about DW4 others are still in denial.
 


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