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Watson Extension

badboy

Hall of Fame
Nope as I've said many times it was a total organizational failure. But DW4 isn't in the same stratosphere as Mahomes either talentwise or as a leader.
While I agree, I want to believe Dashaun can close the gap in next two years as our roster becomes stronger and fingers crossed better also. There are 60 other QB s in NFL not in Mahommes stratosphere. I just believe it doesn't take a Brady to get us super bowl.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The other qb wilted? You're kidding right? Where do you come up with some of this stuff bro..
What would you say after wtching those 2 qb's that game? Mahomes firing up his troops

DW4 with his jacket on sitting on the bench.

Call it what you would like, maybe my description wasn't spot on but it's close.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I can only think of one place he could be pulling it from....:kitten:

The next 2-4 years will be like watching a kid windmill fighting. Just wildly swinging and missing at air. The ignore button is a great feature.
Hope you're right and I'm wrong, and 4 championships will follow but so far history says it's not a good bet.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
While I agree, I want to believe Dashaun can close the gap in next two years as our roster becomes stronger and fingers crossed better also. There are 60 other QB s in NFL not in Mahommes stratosphere. I just believe it doesn't take a Brady to get us super bowl.
Agree to disagree

It will take a Brady like performance to make it past Mahomes and get to a SB. Just like it did with Brady 2 yrs ago. Can DW4 be this guy? I dont think so and that's why the mob cant stand me and fail to even consider the 20 yr cap record.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
What would you say after wtching those 2 qb's that game? Mahomes firing up his troops

DW4 with his jacket on sitting on the bench.

Call it what you would like, maybe my description wasn't spot on but it's close.
Lol, DW4 can’t do anything if the defense can’t get off the field on 3rd and long.

So I would call it, the defense getting lit up by the best qb and offense in the game.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
There are 60 other QB s in NFL not in Mahommes stratosphere. I just believe it doesn't take a Brady to get us super bowl.
No doubt about it. Mahomes is on another level. He may be the new Brady, but he's not Brady.

We've seen Mahomes, when everything is going right. When he's got his OL, when he's got the cheetah, when he's got Kelce, when he's got a defense that does enough when it needs to do enough.

Seriously, I'm not trying to take anything away from Mahomes. He's all that & a bag of chips.

But we've seen him when he was gimpy, we've seen him when things weren't perfect & he looked more human.

I'm not saying he isn't special, but with everything he's got on his side, it's not easy to tell how special he is.

I mean we saw him on the sidelines motivating his team when they were down 24 in a divisional playoff game. & maybe he'll mature (like Brady did) & he'll continue to truly get better & better every year (like Luck didn't).

& the floor is high, but we (watching on tv) really don't know what Mahomes is yet.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Lol, DW4 can’t do anything if the defense can’t get off the field on 3rd and long.

So I would call it, the defense getting lit up by the best qb and offense in the game.
Agreed,

However if DW4 had been able to lead his team on a sustained drive when he was on the field and made his guys think he could do it, the outcome would've been much different.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
No doubt about it. Mahomes is on another level. He may be the new Brady, but he's not Brady.

We've seen Mahomes, when everything is going right. When he's got his OL, when he's got the cheetah, when he's got Kelce, when he's got a defense that does enough when it needs to do enough.

Seriously, I'm not trying to take anything away from Mahomes. He's all that & a bag of chips.

But we've seen him when he was gimpy, we've seen him when things weren't perfect & he looked more human.

I'm not saying he isn't special, but with everything he's got on his side, it's not easy to tell how special he is.

I mean we saw him on the sidelines motivating his team when they were down 24 in a divisional playoff game. & maybe he'll mature (like Brady did) & he'll continue to truly get better & better every year (like Luck didn't).

& the floor is high, but we (watching on tv) really don't know what Mahomes is yet.
Mahomes was trying to jumpstart a Ferrari offense while Watson was getting the horses attached to the carriage. I blame OBs scheme. :kitten:
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No doubt about it. Mahomes is on another level. He may be the new Brady, but he's not Brady.

We've seen Mahomes, when everything is going right. When he's got his OL, when he's got the cheetah, when he's got Kelce, when he's got a defense that does enough when it needs to do enough.

Seriously, I'm not trying to take anything away from Mahomes. He's all that & a bag of chips.

But we've seen him when he was gimpy, we've seen him when things weren't perfect & he looked more human.

I'm not saying he isn't special, but with everything he's got on his side, it's not easy to tell how special he is.

I mean we saw him on the sidelines motivating his team when they were down 24 in a divisional playoff game. & maybe he'll mature (like Brady did) & he'll continue to truly get better & better every year (like Luck didn't).

& the floor is high, but we (watching on tv) really don't know what Mahomes is yet.
I believe after watching the playoffs the last 2 yrs we have a pretty good idea that Mahomes is a generational talent.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Mahomes was trying to jumpstart a Ferrari offense while Watson was getting the horses attached to the carriage. I blame OBs scheme. :kitten:
And not on center, RG and well I cannot say right tackle cause Howard went out injured and was replaced with "oh crap! Who am I suppose to block on this play?" At least Fulton had injuries as a defense.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Agreed,

However if DW4 had been able to lead his team on a sustained drive when he was on the field and made his guys think he could do it, the outcome would've been much different.
Yeah, you're assuming our defense would've been able to stop KC at some point....& just based on the actual game, what on earth would give you that idea? Yeah the outcome would've been much different, the score would've been 65, to 41 instead...Don't matter how many sustained drives he would've led us on the defense couldn't stop KC..period.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Yeah, you're assuming our defense would've been able to stop KC at some point....& just based on the actual game, what on earth would give you that idea? Yeah the outcome would've been much different, the score would've been 65, to 41 instead...Don't matter how many sustained drives he would've led us on the defense couldn't stop KC..period.
Tex already. Good stuff right here gents
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Agree to disagree

It will take a Brady like performance to make it past Mahomes and get to a SB. Just like it did with Brady 2 yrs ago. Can DW4 be this guy? I dont think so and that's why the mob cant stand me and fail to even consider the 20 yr cap record.
I fondly compare you to the ice cream truck that came through neighborhood when I was kid. It played the same tune relentlessly over and over and over. Every one rushed out whether they had money or not, pointing fingers and chattering as if they had not seen the truck before.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I fondly compare you to the ice cream truck that came through neighborhood when I was kid. It played the same tune relentlessly over and over and over. Every one rushed out whether they had money or not, pointing fingers and chattering as if they had not seen the truck before.
I view you as a knowledgeable draft guy and a very good and principled person who sticks to his guns.

What makes you think it wont take a Brady performance to take down Mahomes and the Chiefs?
 
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Earl34

Veteran
It's funny. On this TD to Kelce, I see all these Texans players around Kelce and not one of them have Watson on their jersey or being impacted by Watson wilting on the sidelines.

BTW. Considering how Kelce kept getting open, the defensive awareness on this play is ridiculous. Also, that blurred #4 is Cunningham(#41)

1599662704696.png
 
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Earl34

Veteran
Yeah, you're assuming our defense would've been able to stop KC at some point....& just based on the actual game, what on earth would give you that idea? Yeah the outcome would've been much different, the score would've been 65, to 41 instead...Don't matter how many sustained drives he would've led us on the defense couldn't stop KC..period.
Look at what Kelce was doing to the Texans' defense. Does any reasonable person believe the Texans had any idea how to stop him?

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yeah, you're assuming our defense would've been able to stop KC at some point....& just based on the actual game, what on earth would give you that idea? Yeah the outcome would've been much different, the score would've been 65, to 41 instead...Don't matter how many sustained drives he would've led us on the defense couldn't stop KC..period.
No I'm assuming with a couple of 7-10 minute drives that even ended in FG's. there wouldn't have been time to overcome a 24-0 deficit. Not to mention the benefits of having a well rested defense.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Interesting to look at these deals in their most effective sense as number of years remaining while locked into the player cap-wise at the avg annual cap number of dollars per those 'locked' years (I used less than $10M in dead cap money as the cutoff simply because there had to be a cutoff and it's reasonable given these contracts)..

So basically, what they cost per year while we're stuck with 'em..

Patrick Mahomes - 4 yrs/$26.013M per
Deshaun Watson - 4 yrs/$27.137M per
Russell Wilson - 4 yrs/$34.75M per
Ben Roethlisberger - 2 yrs/$32.5M per
Aaron Rodgers - 3 yrs/$32.615M per
Jared Goff - 3 yrs/$31.922M per
Kirk Cousins - 3 yrs/$32.333M per
Carson Wentz - 4 yrs/$30.219M per
Dak Prescott - 1 yr/$31.409M
Matt Ryan - 3 yrs/$33.845M per
Ryan Tannehill - 3 yrs/$28.667 per

others of note..

Matt Stafford - 2yrs/$27.15M per
Philip Rivers - 1 yr/$25M
Drew Brees - 2 yrs/$29.9M per (includes $11.5M in dead cap money upon end of contract toward future years)
Teddy Bridgewater - 2yrs/$18.5M per
Derek Carr - 1 yr/$21.5M (doable for up to two more seasons at annual avg of $21.167M)
Tom Brady - 2 yrs/$25M per

So.. who do you want (besides Mahomes)..?

I think those numbers support the idea that winning is easier when you have a good QB on a rookie deal .... or you have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.

Roethlisberger , Rodgers , Wilson , Mahomes and I believe Foles while in Philly.

What have they won since their cap hits went to the stratosphere ?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Texans had any idea how to stop him?
I remember one series, KC was up by 7. They were in the red zone & we got a stop on 3rd & goal. I was sooooooo relieved.

Then the flag came out. Cunningham & someone else were doubling Kelce. & they were mugging him. Holding, half the distance, automatic 1st down.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I view you as a knowledgeable draft guy and a very good and principled person who sticks to his guns.

What makes you think it wont take a Brady performance to take down Mahomes and the Chiefs?
Good question. for good reason most of the focus is on DeShaun Watson. DeShaun Watson of 2019 with today's roster as it is on paper in my opinion could have put us into the Super Bowl. Watson Has to improve this year and I base my opinion on that. I honestly say you and others are focusing on last year's roster because that's what we know. I understand all concerns you have and agree at least to some extent. The new money is huge burn in my gut but that ship sailed. To clarify I think #4 and this year's roster is better than KC 2019 team. Let the flames begin. Lol
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Good question. for good reason most of the focus is on DeShaun Watson. DeShaun Watson of 2019 with today's roster as it is on paper in my opinion could have put us into the Super Bowl. Watson Has to improve this year and I base my opinion on that. I honestly say you and others are focusing on last year's roster because that's what we know. I understand all concerns you have and agree at least to some extent. The new money is huge burn in my gut but that ship sailed. To clarify I think #4 and this year's roster is better than KC 2019 team. Let the flames begin. Lol
you think our defense is championship caliber?
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
I think those numbers support the idea that winning is easier when you have a good QB on a rookie deal .... or you have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.

Roethlisberger , Rodgers , Wilson , Mahomes and I believe Foles while in Philly.

What have they won since their cap hits went to the stratosphere ?
History has absolutely shown that to the case. But there's not really a long history of how teams have managed cap space while supporting stratosphere busting QB1 contracts. Front offices are really just kind of in their toddler stage as to the best way to juggle the remaining funds in situations like that.

But we've seen QB's get as far as the superbowl on megadeals - P Manning 2009 (17.2% of the cap) and 2013 (14.2%), and M Ryan 2016 (15.3%). And we've seen QB's win it all with as much as 12+% of the cap more than once - P Manning 2015 and T Brady 2018. So I think it's only a matter of time before we see a team break through that mythical 14/15% barrier.

Ultimately it looks like there are four ways to skin this cat nowadays..

1) Strike gold on just the right babyface QB talent while he's still on the cheap.
2) Have a 'good enough' veteran QB and an outstanding team (defense) around him.
3) Pay an elite QB to stay consistently competitive and hope you hit the jackpot on the rest of the team's contracts at the right time.
4) Have a GOAT-level HC/QB combo with a QB so winning hungry he takes a financial seat back for the team.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Again this is a totally different era of football. Gotta get with the new times old school.
Except .... none of those QB's on the top money list have won anything at all post rookie deal.

Its been Brady , Brees , Manning or QB's on rookie contracts and for the former three - None of their championships came in years they earned greater than 13% of the cap total.

I think its inevitable that someone will eventually break Steve Young's mark and win a superbowl while earning greater than 13.9% of the cap (that was the very first year of the salary cap by the way) but this is more a product of the high volume of QB's earning such a percentage as compared to years past where a select few did so. Someone's got to win it and they all earn a high percentage ....

The numbers speak for themselves .... It hasn't been done for good reason. This is a team sport , not a QB sport.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
I think the past 20 years have been skewed because you had such elite teams run rough shot over the rest of the league. Now you have an era of high paid QBs and teams will have to manage their cap accordingly. Will be interesting to see how teams plan and win going forward.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Cap $ has grown from about 85M to about $190M
The argument isn't about dollars and cents , its about percentage of the total cap.

QB salaries have grown significantly faster than the cap.

History has absolutely shown that to the case. But there's not really a long history of how teams have managed cap space while supporting stratosphere busting QB1 contracts. Front offices are really just kind of in their toddler stage as to the best way to juggle the remaining funds in situations like that.

But we've seen QB's get as far as the superbowl on megadeals - P Manning 2009 (17.2% of the cap) and 2013 (14.2%), and M Ryan 2016 (15.3%). And we've seen QB's win it all with as much as 12+% of the cap more than once - P Manning 2015 and T Brady 2018. So I think it's only a matter of time before we see a team break through that mythical 14/15% barrier.
As I said in my last post responding to @Texansballer74 , I think its inevitable that one of these QB's breaks Steve Young's mark of 13.9% while winning it all - but this is mainly because so many of them do earn that now - the odds favor one of them breaking thru.

Ultimately it looks like there are four ways to skin this cat nowadays..

1) Strike gold on just the right babyface QB talent while he's still on the cheap.
2) Have a 'good enough' veteran QB and an outstanding team (defense) around him.
3) Pay an elite QB to stay consistently competitive and hope you hit the jackpot on the rest of the team's contracts at the right time.
4) Have a GOAT-level HC/QB combo with a QB so winning hungry he takes a financial seat back for the team.
Three of these have happened multiple times over a 20 year period .... one of them hasn't.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Yeah, you're assuming our defense would've been able to stop KC at some point....& just based on the actual game, what on earth would give you that idea? Yeah the outcome would've been much different, the score would've been 65, to 41 instead...Don't matter how many sustained drives he would've led us on the defense couldn't stop KC..period.
That's where you are wrong ...

They have a 24 point lead.

KC scores a TD

One sustained drive that eats up some clock and puts even a FG on the board changes the game.
They are still down 3 scores and if you can sustain another long , time consuming drive just putting up another FG gives you a 30-14 .... minus all that clock.

The two worst things that can happen to an offense in that position is a turnover or a 3&out and that's essentially what they did over and over again.

Their inability to sustain drives was something I pointed out months ago - They only did it 9 times over the course of the entire season.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
No I'm assuming with a couple of 7-10 minute drives that even ended in FG's. there wouldn't have been time to overcome a 24-0 deficit. Not to mention the benefits of having a well rested defense.
Can’t do that when the running game isn’t moving the ball. 3rd and long has been a killer for the Texans since inception.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Nope did not say that nor do I think Watson is a Super Bowl champ QB. Neither has to be to get us to the GAME.
So our defense and our qb is not championship caliber but you think they somehow are able to get us there? Lol ok
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
you think our defense is championship caliber?
Depends on what you mean by "championship caliber".

But if Watt stays healthy, this defense will surprise. You will see a much improved pass rush with Watt, Omenihu, Martin, Mercilus and Blacklock; and this will make the defensive backfield better. Plus Lonnie Johnson will be an upgrade this year as will Eric Murray. A.J. Moore is a new addition with unknown potential.

We don't need a top 10 defense. We just need a top 15.

The biggest hole we may have is covering elite TE's like Kelse. This will be up to Weaver to scheme against and will, then, possibly be in the hands of Johnson, Cole, Cunningham or Moore to get the job done.

Kansas City and Baltimore will show what this year's defense is capable of.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Depends on what you mean by "championship caliber".

But if Watt stays healthy, this defense will surprise. You will see a much improved pass rush with Watt, Omenihu, Martin, Mercilus and Blacklock; and this will make the defensive backfield better. Plus Lonnie Johnson will be an upgrade this year as will Eric Murray. A.J. Moore is a new addition with unknown potential.

We don't need a top 10 defense. We just need a top 15.

The biggest hole we may have is covering elite TE's like Kelse. This will be up to Weaver to scheme against and will, then, possibly be in the hands of Johnson, Cole, Cunningham or Moore to get the job done.

Kansas City and Baltimore will show what this year's defense is capable of.
Badboy implied our defense was good enough to be a super bowl champion. I disagree.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
No doubt about it. Mahomes is on another level. He may be the new Brady, but he's not Brady.

We've seen Mahomes, when everything is going right. When he's got his OL, when he's got the cheetah, when he's got Kelce, when he's got a defense that does enough when it needs to do enough.

Seriously, I'm not trying to take anything away from Mahomes. He's all that & a bag of chips.

But we've seen him when he was gimpy, we've seen him when things weren't perfect & he looked more human.

I'm not saying he isn't special, but with everything he's got on his side, it's not easy to tell how special he is.

I mean we saw him on the sidelines motivating his team when they were down 24 in a divisional playoff game. & maybe he'll mature (like Brady did) & he'll continue to truly get better & better every year (like Luck didn't).

& the floor is high, but we (watching on tv) really don't know what Mahomes is yet.
Good stuff on all of the above.

Just remember, though, that Brady was not Mahomes in his third year in the NFL. Mahomes has so much more growth ahead of him that it's almost insane to think about.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
Good stuff on all of the above.

Just remember, though, that Brady was not Mahomes in his third year in the NFL. Mahomes has so much more growth ahead of him that it's almost insane to think about.
That may be true stats wise but Brady didn't have the arsenal of weapons Mahomes has this early in his career nor the pass heavy rules. It is what it is, and right now Mahomes is the man.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Just remember, though, that Brady was not Mahomes in his third year in the NFL. Mahomes has so much more growth ahead of him that it's almost insane to think about.
That's exactly what I'm saying. We're three years in from here he can go the way of Brady & be much more than Brady ever was. He could go the way of Manning, much more talented, & just not have the success of Brady, or he could go the way of McNabb. More talented than either Brady/Manning not anywhere close to the success of the other two.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
That's exactly what I'm saying. We're three years in from here he can go the way of Brady & be much more than Brady ever was. He could go the way of Manning, much more talented, & just not have the success of Brady, or he could go the way of McNabb. More talented than either Brady/Manning not anywhere close to the success of the other two.
Yep. It's the difference between just "having what it takes" and "having what it takes" with decent support.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Badboy implied our defense was good enough to be a super bowl champion. I disagree.
? Post 128 you asked me if I thought defense was champion quality. Post 140 I said no. I did not say nor imply it. I said they did not have to be nor does Watson have to be. The team as a unit can win and get into the GAME. Slow your roll a bit and read what I actually said.
On paper vs real game who knows what we have until it begins. Win or lose Thurs doesn't necessarily show us how season goes and we only have to look at 2019. Yet on paper I like this offense.
Baltimore is not far behind KC in odds to get in SB. I like Texans chances vs Ravens in division championship game. Anyone think that game would get ratings?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I read it ... I just don't agree with it.

We'll see tomorrow night what they are made of.
You replied to 80s post that I implied Texans defense was champion quality. You said it is if we score every drive. That to me says you do not think defense is champion quality. That's what I said. So...you do agree with me. For third time our defense and Watson don't have to be for this team to get to SB.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
You replied to 80s post that I implied Texans defense was champion quality. You said it is if we score every drive. That to me says you do not think defense is champion quality. That's what I said. So...you do agree with me. For third time our defense and Watson don't have to be for this team to get to SB.

there must be come confusion ...
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
? Post 128 you asked me if I thought defense was champion quality. Post 140 I said no. I did not say nor imply it. I said they did not have to be nor does Watson have to be. The team as a unit can win and get into the GAME. Slow your roll a bit and read what I actually said.
On paper vs real game who knows what we have until it begins. Win or lose Thurs doesn't necessarily show us how season goes and we only have to look at 2019. Yet on paper I like this offense.
Baltimore is not far behind KC in odds to get in SB. I like Texans chances vs Ravens in division championship game. Anyone think that game would get ratings?
You can’t be a champion without a championship level defense or qb. Your post is gibberish.
 


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