Texian is pretty good at picking QB's that nobody has really heard of that can really play. I wonder what traits he looks at.
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Trade up for your QB
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
Texian is pretty good at picking QB's that nobody has really heard of that can really play. I wonder what traits he looks at.
Texian
Hall of Fame
The one thing that separates QBs for me is how well they perform in the 4th quarter when the pressure is on, as in 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives. That is what I learned from Bill Walsh on a big reason he took Montana and Bill Belichick on a big reason why he drafted Brady. I think if you can find a QB that does that on consistent basis, odds are good you get a good QB. That's is what drove me to Bortles and that's what drove me to Wentz. No QB in this draft has done that as well as Carson Wentz, it's not even close.
(FYI - Montana and Brady were known as Comebacks kids in college)
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Not to be argumentative, but how do you factor in QBs on teams that consistently build leads & are seldom in those situations?
Texian
Hall of Fame
In that situation you don't or can't. Next best case scenario is how well do they perform against their better competition. Steelb asked what traits and how I identified my QB selections , 4th quarter performance in pressure situations is my #1 reason that separates QBs. I understand what you're saying though, Elway was a .500 QB with all the tools, Goff is in a similar situation but that's a different discussion.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Just want your opinion on what qb you think we should take within reason? I dont see us being able to trade up to get Wentz. So what qb will be there around 22 or within a reasonable draft slot for us to trade up to, or maybe get in the second that you think could be special
Texian
Hall of Fame
With no chance at Wentz or Goff I'd pass on QB in RD 1, you get a much better return on your pick with a shut down corner like Mackenzie Alexander.
Shishkabob
All Pro
OK so knowing we will be taking a qb at some point probably earlier than later sis there someone you would target in the 2nd?
Texian
Hall of Fame
Outside of Goff and Wentz I don't see a franchise QB. I like Vernon Adams in Rd 3 or later but that's nonsense because he doesn't fit OB's game. What's left in the QB pool you already have in Savage and on the Texans roster for that matter. I would sign Coker as FA and put him on the Practice Squad. If Vernon Butler is there in RD 2 I'm probably all over him, if not then maybe the best OT.
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WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Say you take a guy like Spriggs or Conklin in the 1st round then you might have Cook/Hackenberg available in the 2nd round. Cook might be gone at that point. Hackenberg will probably still be there but who knows. QB in the draft is crazy. All it takes is one team to reach to start a huge run at the position.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
If we draft a cornerback in the first round i'll fallout while having a spastic cussing seizure and quit this team - till the cb proves he's Deion Sanders.
Im not a fan of Coker but i do think he'll be drafted. Either way, i don't think we'd be able to hide him on a practice squad for long.
Texian
Hall of Fame
If you're thinking 2016 only I understand. However if you consider that your #1 CB is 31 yrs old and has 2 yrs remaining on his contract, the time to find his replacement is now. Alexander is considered a shut down corner. Deion Sanders didn't become Deion Prime Time Sanders until he had been in the league a couple years. In a few years Alexander will be shutting down the best WRs in the league and any QB you draft will more than likely be a backup at best.
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bah007
Hall of Fame
If QB weren't an option I wouldn't be bothered by a CB, but it would really have to be the right guy. I would be very happy with Alexander. I think he's going to be fantastic, and if you project forward that gives you a solid future trio of him, KJo, and Kareem.
Again, that's if QB isn't a first round option. That trio looks pretty solid and it will have to be, because we're in a division where every team but us highly values the QB position.
Again, that's if QB isn't a first round option. That trio looks pretty solid and it will have to be, because we're in a division where every team but us highly values the QB position.
Be at least a bit surprised to see Alexander get to 22.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Me too, if that were the case I would look at OTs available. I'm doubtful Brown can return. Ideally Texans should try to sign Cordy Glenn in FA.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Alexander is the best CB in this draft IMO. He's physical, he has great anticipation, and he cares more about limiting separation and shutting a receiver down instead of baiting and gambling for picks.
He gave up a TD in his first career start as a redshirt freshman. He then went 22 straight games without allowing a TD and entered the draft.
He gave up a TD in his first career start as a redshirt freshman. He then went 22 straight games without allowing a TD and entered the draft.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Apparently, the time to replace jjo was last year with kjo.
Yes i want a qb ,but I'll settle for help on offense in the first - rb, Lt, wr, te. Do something to help that side.
You mention drafting a qb to sit on a bench? Drafting a first round cornerback means benching one of jjo, kjack, kjo, rookie on most plays...and benching 2 of them on a lot of plays. It's a bad allocation of our resources and frankly, I think it's downright stupid.
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Texian
Hall of Fame
Another 3rd World Country has weighed in.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I thought you might say something worth some back and forth - like shift one of them to safety? Instead, you offer this dribble in response.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I'm to damn stupid for anything like that.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I was trying to think who might be the BPA at #22 and I took I wild azz guess that it could be Alexander. Alexander could make 5 -6 Pro Bowls during his career and I didn't think there were any other possibilities at #22 who could make that kind of contribution. But you know as they say, stupid is as stupid does.
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powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I didn't say you were stupid - i just think drafting another cb in the first round is stupid. You can take it personal or not ,but i will literally break a tv if we do what your suggesting on draft day.
Some guys just will not defer from drafting best player available no matter what. I wont say im on the opposite side of the isle (draft need only), i'd like to think im somewhere in between.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Alexander is a stud player. I really like him. But I'm going offense this year in the 1st. I don't care if the BPA is a RB. I'm going offense. We will be passing on better defensive players to reach on offensive talent (defensive group this year is excellent and offensive skill position group is extremely weak at the top) but it has to be done. We've put it off for far too long.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
And I wonder is this the cost of drafting bpa? Every 3rd or 4th year teams have not filled needs for so long they HAVE TO SETTLE for what's available because needs are no longer needs - they're dire.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
It's not an issue if you draft well in the mid-rounds and develop those guys into starters 2-3 years down the road.
This is Rick Smith though. On the off chance that he actually hits on a mid-round guy and we develop him he just lets him walk in FA.
Texian
Hall of Fame
My philosophy on BPA is if for 8 years if you draft the BPA and I constantly reach for players of need, you will have the better team because you have the better players. Use Free Agency to fill immediate holes or positions of need since it takes rookies a year or to two to learn their way.
Look at the teams that are consistently taking the BPA (staying true to their board) they are the teams that are consistently making the playoffs vs teams that are consistently reaching for players for need and you will find that those teams occasionally make the playoffs.
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Texian
Hall of Fame
The GREAT Myth and Excuse is good teams can take BPA because they don't have any any holes to fill. The truth is the good teams are good teams because they have always taken the BPA.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
That's only the case when bpa's pan out a higher percentage of the time incidentally also filling needs. A much higher percentage then normal.
Still it begs the question, we haven't had a qb and the bpa qb doesn't come around for a decade so should we do without? Bs.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
With one caveott, "that fit scheme." QB especially unless he comes into league or develops quickly into a "franchise QB" then you can build around him. I suppose the same thing could apply to JJ Watt? Reason they took Clowney, signed Wilfork & drafted McKinney & Johnson to build around him. None have proven out otherwise to really be BPA.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Huh?
Eh... good teams are good teams because they've got good coaches that teach, develop, & motivate everyone to work towards the same goal.
New England has had so many draft picks that don't work out its unreal. But they manage to field a team of free agents, undrafted as well, to get the job done. Most other teams would have tried to figure out how to get Chad Johnson involved in the offense because he's so damn talented. New England put him on the bench & figured out how to win without him.
There's no "one way" it's more about being able to do whatever it takes to find a way.
Yesterday on the combine show, Brian Billick made the comment "It's funny how when your pick comes around, BPA is always at a position you need". Billick was the coach for the Ravens, considered one of the premier draft evaluators in the league.
Everyone drafts for need. It may not be readily apparent to fans. It could be at a position that will be needed to fill the following year. It could be at a position they want to make a June 1 cut. But no team blindly drafts without considering roster implications.
Texian
Hall of Fame
If Billick was everything that the NFL Network bills and brands him to be, he wouldn't be a a secondary commentator on TV.
Contrary to popular belief, there are teams who DO stay true to their board, aka BPA.
Clearly, we disagree on this subject.
I can't think of any that totally draft bpa and ignore need... most draft bpa at a position of need I think
Need also influences how teams stack their draft boards.
Texian
Hall of Fame
32 boards, all different, all subjective
When has anyone seen a teams board to know this for certain?
Texian
Hall of Fame
Sometimes you've to take GMs at their word, like when Ozzie Newsome or Ted Thompson say, when it came our time to make the pick he was at the top of our board or when they say, we stayed true to our board.
I know it's hard for people to believe that there are a few teams who actually adhere to the principle of Taking the BPA. Those teams and GMs understand that trying to fill a BIG need through the draft is a 2 to 3 year process if it pans out and immediate help needed is better served through Free Agency.
It's also hard for folks to grasp and get their head around the idea that by drafting the BPA that your team will be better than if you are reaching for need. With BPA you get more draft picks that pan out and make the roster vs reaching for a position. Player vs Position, player wins almost all of the time.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
If you were the draftnik you brand yourself to be you'd have a job in the NFL.
So you're just going on what you want to believe to be true, ok.
Texian
Hall of Fame
No, I'm actually going off what I've heard Bill Walsh, Bill Belichick, Jjimmy Johnson, Bill Parcels, Ozzie Newsome, Ted Thompson and Ron Wolf say about the draft and not so much what Rick Smith, Infantrycak and Mollywhopper believe.
Texian
Hall of Fame
You know I probably should be, I could take Bah and Wolverine with me and we would do 1000X times better than McNair and Smith have been able to do. One thing for sure the Texans would already have a good QB.
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I didn't say what I believe, so not sure what you're going on about there.
Nor have I heard any GM contrastingly say, "when it came our time to make the pick he was down on our board but we just had to fill a need", as that would just sound foolish.
So without any evidence then yes, you're just going off of what you choose to believe some guys have said to be true. Don't even know why you're so insulted over that. It just is what it is.
bah007
Hall of Fame
The draftnik community is full of amateurs who don't fully understand the process, and the concept of BPA has to be the most misunderstood concept in the whole draft. BPA cannot be separated from need because your needs have to be considered if you are to truly find the best talent available to your team.
Too many people focus on things like "talent", athleticism, size/speed and totally ignore more important factors like skill set and scheme fit.
The BPA method is taking the player who will have the biggest impact for YOUR TEAM, which is not necessarily the same thing as taking the player with the "most talent" remaining in the draft pool.
Too many people focus on things like "talent", athleticism, size/speed and totally ignore more important factors like skill set and scheme fit.
The BPA method is taking the player who will have the biggest impact for YOUR TEAM, which is not necessarily the same thing as taking the player with the "most talent" remaining in the draft pool.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You dont know that because nobody gets to see the board. Your imaginary board and guesswork has 0 to do with what a real board looks like.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
When Ozzie traded up to get Flacco, what was that? Bpa or need?
Texian
Hall of Fame
If over the course of 4 different consecutive drafts, I draft 28 BPA, only deviating to the next man on the board when there is a better player already on the roster vs a team who reaches for 28 players trying fill their biggest holes and needs, without a doubt, without a question, I will have drafted 28 better players. Of those 28 players I will have drafted more players who will make the 53 man roster vs the team who drafted 28 players for need. Basic common sense and logic. Sticking to BPA philosophy prevents you from reaching and trading 3 draft picks to move up to draft Louis Nix. Capache?
Texian
Hall of Fame
When I hear and read Jimmy Johnson say the team who can accumulate the most draft picks and use them to select the best players will be a team who is more competitive. When I hear Ron Wolf and Ozzie Newsome say don't reach for players, instead stay true to your board, I'm going with their advice over any suggestions made by Molly or Cak.
Texian
Hall of Fame
You don't know what I know and what you don't know is that I am much more knowledgeable than you!
Both, if Cowboys trade up for Wentz it's because he's BPA and fills the need long term at the most important position in the game for the next 15 years.
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