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Toby Gerhart news

I don't see a complete back in this draft, I like a couple of backs: Spiller and Best come to mind but they are far from complete, and neither can run inside worth a lick.

So if it is a two back, I would take Gerhardt, he runs with a good pad level, and nifty feet for his size, reminds me a little bit of Bettis and Alstot. Not so sure about the Marion Barber comparison, not quite sure he runs with that kind of violence.
 
jppaul said:
I don't see a complete back in this draft, I like a couple of backs: Spiller and Best come to mind but they are far from complete, and neither can run inside worth a lick.

So if it is a two back, I would take Gerhardt, he runs with a good pad level, and nifty feet for his size, reminds me a little bit of Bettis and Alstot. Not so sure about the Marion Barber comparison, not quite sure he runs with that kind of violence.
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I think Ryan Mathews is probably the closest thing to a complete back in this draft. I think he will end up being the best.
 
What gets people excited about Gerhart is his ability and willingness to square his pads after initial contact and then his balance. His best runs were where he kept his balance using his hands to the ground and a proper weight shift through momentum. That is a drill that I know every single running back ever has gone through since middle school. I think he will be a good RB at the next level. Production against good teams is production against good teams. He won't be an upper tier back, but he should be able to get 700-800 yards and 8-9 TD's as a rookie if he gets a split shift on the carries.

I think his ceiling is mid second round, and I think he actually goes late second.

The best comparison I can think of from the NFL is Bettis. Yeah, they have different body types but they have a similar running style and for being "bigger" RB's, they both have incredible intangible balance. Tough to bring down and they produce at the goal line.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
What gets people excited about Gerhart is his ability and willingness to square his pads after initial contact and then his balance. His best runs were where he kept his balance using his hands to the ground and a proper weight shift through momentum. That is a drill that I know every single running back ever has gone through since middle school. I think he will be a good RB at the next level. Production against good teams is production against good teams. He won't be an upper tier back, but he should be able to get 700-800 yards and 8-9 TD's as a rookie if he gets a split shift on the carries.

I think his ceiling is mid second round, and I think he actually goes late second.

The best comparison I can think of from the NFL is Bettis. Yeah, they have different body types but they have a similar running style and for being "bigger" RB's, they both have incredible intangible balance. Tough to bring down and they produce at the goal line.
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also blocks both in pass protection & downfield, no question about smarts or character as well-
 
Yep, Toby is my second round pick all the way. I would be willing to trade up for him. YTF's analysis was very good, the Bettis comparison was very apt, in my opinion.
 
I cant see how everyone is so over the top for drafting this guy , he had the benifit of playing in a weak defensive conference (overall) and the non conference schedule was devoid of defensive players who who have NFL talent.
The first time he saw a defense with NFL calibur prospects he put the ball on the turf 3 times. Far too often he has the ball away from his body - only contacting the hand and forearm rather than hand forearm and body - In the NFL this is going to be a BIG DEAL especially considering the majority of his carries will come between the tackles.

If he can correct this issue I think he could be a servicable NFL back for a team that employs more of a power scheme - I do not see him fitting the Texans scheme in the least.
 
What I don't understand is if we're all for drafting Gerhat why weren't we all ready to throw a pick at Jacob Hester? They are practically the same player, except that Hester played in a conference with actual defenses.
 
Corrosion said:
I cant see how everyone is so over the top for drafting this guy , he had the benifit of playing in a weak defensive conference (overall) and the non conference schedule was devoid of defensive players who who have NFL talent.
The first time he saw a defense with NFL calibur prospects he put the ball on the turf 3 times. Far too often he has the ball away from his body - only contacting the hand and forearm rather than hand forearm and body - In the NFL this is going to be a BIG DEAL especially considering the majority of his carries will come between the tackles.

If he can correct this issue I think he could be a servicable NFL back for a team that employs more of a power scheme - I do not see him fitting the Texans scheme in the least.
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I think Bong hit it on the head. He's white.

I think its really hard to gauge his ability based on what he did in college. First and foremost the competition was questionable. On top of that he had a really good OL. Go watch any of his highllight videos and you will notice that he doesnt get touched most of the time until he is at the second level.

The one sure thing you can get from watching his college games is his running style. He is a bruiser that doesnt shy away from contact. If he is effective in the NFL he will take a beating and RB's like that have a short shelf life in the NFL.

I cant see any team drafting him before the third round. I cant see us drafting him before the fourth.
 
Are people really trying to bring race into this? Wow.

Come on, he was statistically the best back in the nation last year. Injury concerns are crap. Any back can take a bad hit and be done for his career. AP was injury prone in college, and he has not missed much in the pros.
 
rmartin65 said:
Are people really trying to bring race into this? Wow.

Come on, he was statistically the best back in the nation last year. Injury concerns are crap. Any back can take a bad hit and be done for his career. AP was injury prone in college, and he has not missed much in the pros.
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Statistically means diddly poo in the draft. Kevin Smith almost broke Barry Sanders college record and he still got picked well after:

McFadden
Stewart
Jones
Mendenhall
Johnson
Forte
Rice

His true skills will be shown and evaluated in the combine, but my guess is that he gets selected by some team to be their FB. We already have a FB. I only said that he sucked because "He's white" as a joke because everybody knows nowdays white runningback = fullback = mike alstott.
 
b0ng said:
Statistically means diddly poo in the draft. Kevin Smith almost broke Barry Sanders college record and he still got picked well after:

McFadden
Stewart
Jones
Mendenhall
Johnson
Forte
Rice

His true skills will be shown and evaluated in the combine, but my guess is that he gets selected by some team to be their FB. We already have a FB. I only said that he sucked because "He's white" as a joke because everybody knows nowdays white runningback = fullback = mike alstott.
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First, the white remark was to mussop, not you. I understood your sarcasm.

Yep, good statistics do not mean a guy will be drafted high. However, good statistics show that a player could be good. Could be, that is why people like Gerhart. He is big (power back is a need for this team. How many more wins would we have if we had someone not named Chris Brown?), agile, and has decent speed.
 
Great Balance, vision, leg drive & low center of gravity carrying significant weight/strength creates a premium pile-driving, red zone scoring machine.


In the Texans need department that ranks right up there :handshake:
 
rmartin 65

What do you think about LaMarcus Coker?

I read an article about him and although he got kicked out of Tennessee for smoking pot it seema as though he turned his life around.

His coach speaks highly of his character and work ethic.

I remember him at Tennesee and thought he was the real deal. He is the closest thing to Chris Johnson in this draft. At the very least he could be a great KR/PR.

He's fast and runs with power.

After doing a thourough background check, if he comes back clean I would draft him in the 5th rd.
 
steelbtexan said:
rmartin 65

What do you think about LaMarcus Coker?

I read an article about him and although he got kicked out of Tennessee for smoking pot it seema as though he turned his life around.

His coach speaks highly of his character and work ethic.

I remember him at Tennesee and thought he was the real deal. He is the closest thing to Chris Johnson in this draft. At the very least he could be a great KR/PR.

He's fast and runs with power.

After doing a thourough background check, if he comes back clean I would draft him in the 5th rd.
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I like him. He would be a poor mans CJ, I have him pegged as a 7th rounder. The character questions and the fact that he played FCS knocks him down a bit.
 
Corrosion said:
I cant see how everyone is so over the top for drafting this guy , he had the benifit of playing in a weak defensive conference (overall) and the non conference schedule was devoid of defensive players who who have NFL talent.
The first time he saw a defense with NFL calibur prospects he put the ball on the turf 3 times. Far too often he has the ball away from his body - only contacting the hand and forearm rather than hand forearm and body - In the NFL this is going to be a BIG DEAL especially considering the majority of his carries will come between the tackles.

If he can correct this issue I think he could be a servicable NFL back for a team that employs more of a power scheme - I do not see him fitting the Texans scheme in the least.
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The ZBS is to misdirect or push certain defensive players a certin direction (lane) to open running plays allowing the running back to make a "one cut and go" popping past the first line of attack. Toby Gerhart seems perfect for Texans as he has the speed and power to take the ball further downfield once past the line. Corrosion, did you ever watch the guy play?
 
rmartin65 said:
First, the white remark was to mussop, not you. I understood your sarcasm.

Yep, good statistics do not mean a guy will be drafted high. However, good statistics show that a player could be good. Could be, that is why people like Gerhart. He is big (power back is a need for this team. How many more wins would we have if we had someone not named Chris Brown?), agile, and has decent speed.
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It's the "He's big" part. You don't need to be big to be a power back, you can do it weighing in under 230 and be fine. It's all about drive, quickness and the ability to run in tight spaces.

I really want to see how he does in the combine before I give my analysis on the guy, and he could work in the 3rd round from what I've seen on film, but I think they could be better off using a 3rd round pick on a different position. I'm in the camp of if we are going to use a pick on an RB, lets make sure he's going to take over RB duties, and I don't think Gerhart is a guy you want toting the rock 20-30 times a game.

If people want to draft Gerhart I think we should hope that he falls to us in a later round (4th and beyond) so that we've already filled bigger needs on our team (DB's, OG/C, maybe even a nice DT) and he'd be a luxury and a value.
 
b0ng said:
It's the "He's big" part. You don't need to be big to be a power back, you can do it weighing in under 230 and be fine. It's all about drive, quickness and the ability to run in tight spaces.

I really want to see how he does in the combine before I give my analysis on the guy, and he could work in the 3rd round from what I've seen on film, but I think they could be better off using a 3rd round pick on a different position. I'm in the camp of if we are going to use a pick on an RB, lets make sure he's going to take over RB duties, and I don't think Gerhart is a guy you want toting the rock 20-30 times a game.

If people want to draft Gerhart I think we should hope that he falls to us in a later round (4th and beyond) so that we've already filled bigger needs on our team (DB's, OG/C, maybe even a nice DT) and he'd be a luxury and a value.
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Bong, you are missing the point. Big is just part of it. Sure some guys under 230 are great RBs, but nearly every coach wants a player that is fast/quick and big. Would you rather have a LG like Asamoah that is 6'4" 315 and 5.08 or Iupati 6'5" 335 5.28? Most take Iupati. Gerhart has the drive, quickness and ability to run in tight places. He led the nation divsion one yardage 1,871 but also had 28TDs. He won the Doak Walker for best running back in nation and was 84 votes behind Ingram for Heisman. Awards and stats mean little but they are tools that we can look at.

Gerhart probably can carry the ball 20-25 times but he will not have to. What NFL back consistently has more than 22 per game? If Slaton is healthy and with another back like Moats or Foster, we could have a very fresh strong game in 4th quarter and last half of season. He is not a one hit wonder in college bust steadily put up the numbers including average per carry.
 
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badboy said:
Bong, you are missing the point. Big is just part of it. Sure some guys under 230 are great RBs, but nearly every coach wants a player that is fast/quick and big. Would you rather have a LG like Asamoah that is 6'4" 315 and 5.08 or Iupati 6'5" 335 5.28? Most take Iupati. Gerhart has the drive, quickness and ability to run in tight places. He led the nation divsion one yardage 1,871 but also had 28TDs. He won the Doak Walker for best running back in nation and was 84 votes behind Ingram for Heisman. Awards and stats mean little but they are tools that we can look at.

Gerhart probably can carry the ball 20-25 times but he will not have to. What NFL back consistently has more than 22 per game? If Slaton is healthy and with another back like Moats or Foster, we could have a very fresh stron game in 4th quarter and last half of season. He is not a one hit wonder in college bust steadily put up the numbers including average per carry.
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My point is that a guy doesn't have to be big to do well in short yardage situations, and that I feel a lot of coaches know this and even tend to shy away from guys who are "too big", or they just draft em to be a FB.

Again, I don't see Gerhart as an RB1, but this opinion could change after I see him perform in individual drills. Right now, judging from his game film, I'd say he'd be a decent 3rd rounder, or a valuable 4th rounder. This could easily change as the fluidity of the draft is ever changing up until the end of April. I watch Gerhart and I see Alstott (Who was a very good player in his own, but not a guy that you want toting the rock so many times a game).

Also CJ came in a hair over 22 carries per game, but his workload was definitely increased when VY became the starter (Draw your own conclusions here). Michael Turner last year carried 23.5 times a game in 2008 and LJ carried it about 26 times a game in 2006. It happens if you are a good back and your team has no real weapons outside the RB on offense.
 
badboy said:
The ZBS is to misdirect or push certain defensive players a certin direction (lane) to open running plays allowing the running back to make a "one cut and go" popping past the first line of attack. Toby Gerhart seems perfect for Texans as he has the speed and power to take the ball further downfield once past the line. Corrosion, did you ever watch the guy play?
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Of course I have - why do you think I made the statements about how he carry's the ball away from his body far too often. That is my main concern with him as an NFL player.
 
Corrosion said:
Of course I have - why do you think I made the statements about how he carry's the ball away from his body far too often. That is my main concern with him as an NFL player.
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I thought it was possible that you read or heard someone else make a point and then voiced it. It was not an attack on you but trying to clarify why you seem to value him lower than most. I agree about his handling of the football as most RBs I've watched began their poor ball management (if that is correct terminology)in public school and were never corrected. A good running back coach should be able to fix that. I have yet to see an evaluation of Gerhart stating his fumbling is of major concern.
 
b0ng said:
Statistically means diddly poo in the draft. Kevin Smith almost broke Barry Sanders college record and he still got picked well after:

McFadden
Stewart
Jones
Mendenhall
Johnson
Forte
Rice

His true skills will be shown and evaluated in the combine, but my guess is that he gets selected by some team to be their FB. We already have a FB. I only said that he sucked because "He's white" as a joke because everybody knows nowdays white runningback = fullback = mike alstott.
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I wouldn't have a problem if we got a guy who produced at the level of Mike Alstot in the mid-late 2nd round.
 
badboy said:
I thought it was possible that you read or heard someone else make a point and then voiced it. It was not an attack on you but trying to clarify why you seem to value him lower than most. I agree about his handling of the football as most RBs I've watched began their poor ball management (if that is correct terminology)in public school and were never corrected. A good running back coach should be able to fix that. I have yet to see an evaluation of Gerhart stating his fumbling is of major concern.
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Its obvious by how often the Texans RB's put the ball on the turf this season they DONT have one of those .....

As for Gerhart's ball security issues - I dont think anyone else has put it in print. Ive watched him all year and its just something I noticed - the way he carry's the ball is just asking for trouble. Much of the time he only has contact with the ball on two points. He will cover it well in heavy traffic ...

Watch some video and you'll see what I mean - I guess its not the first thing most people look for when watching a RB.

Yes, he's a tough runner with good speed but I think he has also benifited greatly from a very good OL and a very weak schedule defensively.
 
Corrosion said:
Its obvious by how often the Texans RB's put the ball on the turf this season they DONT have one of those .....

As for Gerhart's ball security issues - I dont think anyone else has put it in print. Ive watched him all year and its just something I noticed - the way he carry's the ball is just asking for trouble. Much of the time he only has contact with the ball on two points. He will cover it well in heavy traffic ...

Watch some video and you'll see what I mean - I guess its not the first thing most people look for when watching a RB.

Yes, he's a tough runner with good speed but I think he has also benifited greatly from a very good OL and a very weak schedule defensively.
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In the bowl game his QB Luck did not play and his Oline seemed non-existant. He had statistically one of his worse games with 135 yards & two TDs om 38 attempts. No fumbles. If I can get this guy in 3rd great but I just think it is like believing the babe you have been eyeing will be available for the prom and when you finally call her, she accepted someone else's offer the day before. Another date may be on your arm but it just will not be the same.
 
badboy said:
In the bowl game his QB Luck did not play and his Oline seemed non-existant. He had statistically one of his worse games with 135 yards & two TDs om 38 attempts. No fumbles. If I can get this guy in 3rd great but I just think it is like believing the babe you have been eyeing will be available for the prom and when you finally call her, she accepted someone else's offer the day before. Another date may be on your arm but it just will not be the same.
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He fumbled the ball 3 times ... the team lost none of those but it does not change the fact he put the ball on the turf 3x.


Again , watch some video of him and you will see exactly why I question his ability to hold onto the ball.

Hell just watch the ESPN highlight against ND where he hurdles a guy ... on the way to the endzone .... his arms and the ball are above his shoulders , almost looked like a chicken taking flight.
With the way he runs - almost as if he's looking to blast someone - he has to fix the way he totes the ball.
 
Corrosion said:
He fumbled the ball 3 times ... the team lost none of those but it does not change the fact he put the ball on the turf 3x.


Again , watch some video of him and you will see exactly why I question his ability to hold onto the ball.

Hell just watch the ESPN highlight against ND where he hurdles a guy ... on the way to the endzone .... his arms and the ball are above his shoulders , almost looked like a chicken taking flight.
With the way he runs - almost as if he's looking to blast someone - he has to fix the way he totes the ball.
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Agreed on working with him but that can be said on every player coming into the draft. So far, in the current NFL playoffs, professionals are fumbling. I just think his tangibles are amazing with only Dwyer coming close. Any idea what his fumbles to attempts were for college career? I'd like to know.
 
I'm still not completely sold on Gerhart. Right now he is my #6 RB and I have him going in the third round. Granted, I'm no "expert" but he just doesn't do it for me. To me, he looks very similar to Ron Dayne (who was a decent NFL back, but I guarantee the Giants wish they had not used a first round pick on him).

I wouldn't be surprised if his RT (Chris Marinelli) gets picked before he does.
 
bah007 said:
I'm still not completely sold on Gerhart. Right now he is my #6 RB and I have him going in the third round. Granted, I'm no "expert" but he just doesn't do it for me. To me, he looks very similar to Ron Dayne (who was a decent NFL back, but I guarantee the Giants wish they had not used a first round pick on him).

I wouldn't be surprised if his RT (Chris Marinelli) gets picked before he does.
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I couldnt agree more.
 
b0ng said:
Statistically means diddly poo in the draft. Kevin Smith almost broke Barry Sanders college record and he still got picked well after:

McFadden
Stewart
Jones
Mendenhall
Johnson
Forte
Rice

His true skills will be shown and evaluated in the combine, but my guess is that he gets selected by some team to be their FB. We already have a FB. I only said that he sucked because "He's white" as a joke because everybody knows nowdays white runningback = fullback = mike alstott.
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His true skills will be shown in the combine? No, the combine will give you some insight into his athletic ability, but his skills have been shown on the football field. The dude can play, period.
 
I think he'd definitely turn some heads if this ends up being the case.

Stanford RB Toby Gerhart says he is capable of running a 4.43 in the forty-yard dash.

"Once I post some good times I think things will settle out," Gerhart said of his stock. "I can't wait to go out there and turn some heads at the Combine. I want to play running back and be the feature back." Gerhart will stay at tailback if he runs in the low-4.4s on Sunday. The Doak Walker Award winner may be ticketed for fullback if he can't break 4.5 in Indianapolis.
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http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL
 
Has anyone ever compared this guy to Tom Rathman? The other day when I was watching NFL Network Best Ever, I saw Roger Craig and Tom Rathman at #8 Best Ever Backfield duos. When I saw Rathman and immediately thought of this Gerhart dude.
 
El Tejano said:
Has anyone ever compared this guy to Tom Rathman? The other day when I was watching NFL Network Best Ever, I saw Roger Craig and Tom Rathman at #8 Best Ever Backfield duos. When I saw Rathman and immediately thought of this Gerhart dude.
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reminds me more of John Riggins running the ball
 
Don't get caught up in the numbers game at the combine. There are a ton of really successful RBs that run in the 4.5s. Conversely, there are tons of unsuccessful speed demons. For example, Darren McFadden has not set the NFL on fire despite running a 4.3 at the combine, while Michael Bush has looked terrific on the same team with the same OL. Bush ran a 4.5 if I remember correctly

There are other, more important qualities, that great RBs have including, balance, vision, core strength, agility, acceleration, and toughness.
 
otisbean said:
Don't get caught up in the numbers game at the combine. There are a ton of really successful RBs that run in the 4.5s. Conversely, there are tons of unsuccessful speed demons. For example, Darren McFadden has not set the NFL on fire despite running a 4.3 at the combine, while Michael Bush has looked terrific on the same team with the same OL. Bush ran a 4.5 if I remember correctly

There are other, more important qualities, that great RBs have including, balance, vision, core strength, agility, acceleration, and toughness.
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Actually he never ran one because he broke his leg during his senior year of college and wasnt close to healed when the combine came around. He was still not ready when the season started his rookie year if I am not mistaken.
 
Come on guys, speed for wide receivers, running backs and corners is one of the highest valued markers used by teams. No one is saying that a slower player can not be good or that the 40 speed is the only tool used, but it is foolish to completely disregard it. I will step on the limb and say if Gerhart runs sub 4.50 it will greatly improve his draft status. Same for Dwyer who is credited with better speed than TG.
 
otisbean said:
Don't get caught up in the numbers game at the combine. There are a ton of really successful RBs that run in the 4.5s. Conversely, there are tons of unsuccessful speed demons. For example, Darren McFadden has not set the NFL on fire despite running a 4.3 at the combine, while Michael Bush has looked terrific on the same team with the same OL. Bush ran a 4.5 if I remember correctly

There are other, more important qualities, that great RBs have including, balance, vision, core strength, agility, acceleration, and toughness.
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Terrill Davis ran a 4.6 IIRC.
 
All else equal, of course you want the faster guy. There's a big difference between running 40 yards straight, indoors, on field turf, in gym shorts and a t-shirt vs. fully suited up in pads and having to make 1 cut and go. I prefer explosion, the first 10-20 yards vs. top end speed and the full 40. That goes for WR, RB and CB. For a WR to be truly successful, he needs to have his man beat within 10 yds the majority of the time. For a RB to be successful (esp in our system), he needs to be able to make a cut and ACCELERATE... not run full speed from the get go. For a CB to be successful, he needs to be able to close quickly and have that burst. Top end speed is severely overrated, its the burst, the explosion and the acceleration that I think is overwhelmingly important. Sometimes the two go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
All else equal, of course you want the faster guy. There's a big difference between running 40 yards straight, indoors, on field turf, in gym shorts and a t-shirt vs. fully suited up in pads and having to make 1 cut and go. I prefer explosion, the first 10-20 yards vs. top end speed and the full 40. That goes for WR, RB and CB. For a WR to be truly successful, he needs to have his man beat within 10 yds the majority of the time. For a RB to be successful (esp in our system), he needs to be able to make a cut and ACCELERATE... not run full speed from the get go. For a CB to be successful, he needs to be able to close quickly and have that burst. Top end speed is severely overrated, its the burst, the explosion and the acceleration that I think is overwhelmingly important. Sometimes the two go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.
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Good example of what you are talking about was Domanick Davis. He was never going to bust off an 80 yd run but he had fantastic first 3 step acceleration so he rarely took a loss and could hit holes as soon as they opened.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
All else equal, of course you want the faster guy. There's a big difference between running 40 yards straight, indoors, on field turf, in gym shorts and a t-shirt vs. fully suited up in pads and having to make 1 cut and go. I prefer explosion, the first 10-20 yards vs. top end speed and the full 40. That goes for WR, RB and CB. For a WR to be truly successful, he needs to have his man beat within 10 yds the majority of the time. For a RB to be successful (esp in our system), he needs to be able to make a cut and ACCELERATE... not run full speed from the get go. For a CB to be successful, he needs to be able to close quickly and have that burst. Top end speed is severely overrated, its the burst, the explosion and the acceleration that I think is overwhelmingly important. Sometimes the two go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.
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I agree with you intial burst comment. It would be nice to have a back that can get past the line and then haul it to the end zone.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
All else equal, of course you want the faster guy. There's a big difference between running 40 yards straight, indoors, on field turf, in gym shorts and a t-shirt vs. fully suited up in pads and having to make 1 cut and go. I prefer explosion, the first 10-20 yards vs. top end speed and the full 40. That goes for WR, RB and CB. For a WR to be truly successful, he needs to have his man beat within 10 yds the majority of the time. For a RB to be successful (esp in our system), he needs to be able to make a cut and ACCELERATE... not run full speed from the get go. For a CB to be successful, he needs to be able to close quickly and have that burst. Top end speed is severely overrated, its the burst, the explosion and the acceleration that I think is overwhelmingly important. Sometimes the two go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.
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Give this lady a prize....
 
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