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To those who want Reggie Bush...

TexanAddict

Texan 'til I Die
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:
 
They also had a crappy coach like Wayne Fontes that could only inspire his team to play great everytime his job was in danger. They also let go of their best QB Rodney Pete and their defense was never any good.

I think our defense went south this year becaue of the young talent on this team defensively. We do have alot of promise though in two young safeties, a real good CB in Dunta, and perhaps a new starter in Shantee Orr.

Our WR Andre Johnson is far better than Herman Moore ever was and Detroit never had the depth at RB that we do. Even though we make ourselves one demensional with the crappy OL we have we still aren't as one demensional as the Lions were with Sanders.
Getting Reggie Bush would create alot of depth to many positions.

Now the one thing I fear is that the team wont like this dude because of all the hype by the fans.
 
Note: I wouldnt mind getting Reggie, or trading him for more picks.

All I have to say, is at least they had the chance to play in the playoffs. I dont think Reggie can do it all. But he wouldnt be our only draft pick.

We would have 6 other draft picks to help out. Also this isnt a one year rebuilding plan. We will have a couple of more drafts to add to reggies team.

I would take Reggie over anyone in this draft, plus whatever we could get for him.

BUT! like i said, I wont mind if we do trade down, and fill multiple slots. As long as we get good value. Which I think we need a new GM to get.
 
I'm in the tradedown camp too, but think about this for a second. We would be fools to pass up on "the next Barry Sanders" just because of the Lions history. If anything it should be a lesson of "Just because you have a marquee player, doesn't mean you can quit building the rest of the team".
 
TexanAddict said:
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:


DSDAMAGED Posted on: Today, 07:59 AM


Pro Bowler


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QUOTE(jojob101 @ Dec 26 2005, 06:16 PM)
I have been saying this since the Bush threads began. One guy cannot take a crap team to the promise land. It has to be several key players at each position and depth. A defense wins championships and not a "Barry Sanders" look alike. Sure he (Bush) will bring for some nice plays but we can get those plays with other quality players on the 53 man roaster (gore/hicks) etc.

Barry Sanders went out with a ton of nice highlights and dances but never have you seen him hold up the Lombardi trophy. I bet if you ask him he would want the trophy. In fact, that's what they all want.

So that being said, this article underlines and highlights our should be view on missing the #1 pick. Even if we had the #1 I would hope we would take someone’s trade down. Gore is the man..!!
Shawn Alexander wasn't a #1
Tikki wasn't a #1
Terrel Davis, Stephen Davis, Dillon, Willie Paker... etc. etc. etc. We find the runners and make them holes to run through! go NINERS








yes its true barry has no trophy, but did you really expect the niners to stop building the team if we got him the way detroit did when they got barry? the fact that barry has no lombardi is due to the fact that while detroit had him they did nothing to compliment him and relied on him exclusivly. im not totally disapointed that we are out of the bush bowl, and i am happy we won last week and i expect to win again, i think a two game winning streak helps this club going into next year almost as much as a decent draft choice does. detroit was a sorry team with a sorry coach that didnt have the smarts to build around barry,s talent. i dont think we would have been that negligent if we had gotten bush. put barry sanders on any team that did continue to build around him and i bet he would have had his lombardi. ant team who makes the same bad drafting choices and signing practices that detroit did when they had barry is going to be bad...barry or no barry.


had the same argument from our own boards
 
THE NFL DRAFT said:
Note: I wouldnt mind getting Reggie, or trading him for more picks.

All I have to say, is at least they had the chance to play in the playoffs. I dont think Reggie can do it all. But he wouldnt be our only draft pick.

We would have 6 other draft picks to help out. Also this isnt a one year rebuilding plan. We will have a couple of more drafts to add to reggies team.

I would take Reggie over anyone in this draft, plus whatever we could get for him.

BUT! like i said, I wont mind if we do trade down, and fill multiple slots. As long as we get good value. Which I think we need a new GM to get.
I agree with that. Drafting Sanders was the step in the right direction but it was all the drafting of crappy QBs instead of filling something else that was the reason for sorry football in Detroit.
 
I'm sorry but I don't believe that comparing Reggie Bush to Barry Sanders is a bad thing. You cannot blame Barry Sanders for the Lions being a terrible franchise for the past 50 years. Barry didn't have the responsibility of picking good coaches, good general managers, and putting good players on the field. Any team in the NFL would love to have Barry Sanders on their team.

Saying that Reggie Bush is like Barry Sanders should be a reason why we would want him, not that Barry never won in the playoffs therefore Reggie will never win in the playoffs.
 
TexanAddict said:
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:

Your point is a flawed one I'm afraid. There are good arguments for not drafting Reggie Bush and for trading down to get more picks. This simply is not one of them.

The reason is simple. The Lions lack of progress when they had Barry Sanders does not in any way reflect on the use of a draft pick to select Barry Sanders. Barry Sanders was a brilliant selection and would be so if you had not one single other player signed to your roster at the time you chose him.

The Lions lack of progress during the Sanders years is an indictment of the teams inability to assemble the necessary talent around Barry Sanders to get the job done. You can't blame Barry because the Lions consistently made poor choices in the draft and hired a parade of boobs to coach their team. Barry Sanders did what he was drafted to do. He gave the Detroit Lions a HOF quality running game for the period of time he played for them. As so many posters point out when arguing against drafting Reggie Bush, football is a team sport and no one player can win a Super Bowl. Earl Campbell couldn't do it, Barry Sanders couldn't do it, and Reggie Bush won't do it even if he does turn out to be the next ______________ (insert famous running back name here).

He won't do it unless the organization assembles the kind of talent around him that it takes to win a Super Bowl and THEN provides that talent with the kind of coaching it takes to win a Super Bowl.

If the argument is about one player getting you to the big game then the argument is over. It's not going to happen.

Following that sentiment why do you draft David Carr in 2002? One player can't get you to the Super Bowl so why select David Carr in our first year when our needs were far greater than they are today? The Texans took him because they believed that he was capable of leading this team to the Super Bowl and because you build your team one great player at a time.

You draft the best players you can get and you do it year after year after year. One draft isn't enough even with extra picks . We had extra picks in 2002 and 2003. Who wants to go back over where that got us? Anybody?

You don't pass on a great player when you see one standing right in front of you. To me that is one simple argument that trumps all others when it comes to drafting Reggie Bush (assuming we hold the #1 overall selection). It's a combination of the following.

1. When are you going to be holding this high a draft pick again? Hopefully not anytime soon right?

2. Do you see a player that's worthy of being selected #1 overall?

3. Do you already have someone at that position who is better than the guy you want to pick?

Most teams don't want to come back here to the top of the losers pool and trading into this spot is expensive. When you hold the #1 pick you've got hold of something very unusual. One team per year gets to pick before everyone else. Nobody is off the board. You can do anything (yes, even walk away for the right price).

I think right now that Bush is a player who's worth this pick. I think so. I want to see the Rose Bowl of course and I'm thinking that if he does to Texas what he's done to everyone else then he's very much worth the first selection overall. Whether or not Bush is worth the #1 is an arguable point.

I don't think there's any doubt that IF you believe Bush is worth the first overall pick on the draft then Domanick Davis is not better than Bush. At that point it's a forgone conclusion that Bush is an upgrade.

Barring a trade down that gets us greater value than Bush I take Bush. The trade down is a strong possibility but you have to make something of those picks. Trade Bush away for more selections and then pick some guys who fail to perform and you'll be kicking yourself for the rest of his career (and possibly longer).

Tough choice. I'll be glad when next week's game is over and we know whether it's going to have to be made.
 
But you have to consider the rest of the Lions drafts surrounding Sanders in order to view it in it's proper context.

1993
2(33) Ryan McNeil DB Miami (FL)
3(62) Antonio London LB Alabama
3(68) Mike Compton C West Virginia
6(147) Greg Jeffries DB Virginia
7(174) Ty Hallock LB Michigan State
8(201) Kevin Miniefield DB Arizona State

1992
1(26) Robert Porcher DE South Carolina State
2(53) Tracy Scroggins LB Tulsa
2(56) Jason Hanson K Washington State
3(81) Thomas McLemore TE Southern
6(145) Larry Tharpe T Tennessee State
8(221) Willie Clay DB Georgia Tech
11(306) Ed Tillison RB NW Missouri

1991
1(10) Herman Moore WR Virginia
3(58) Reggie Barrett WR Texas-El Paso
4(91) Kevin Scott DB Stanford
5(118) Scott Conover G Purdue
6(151) Richie Andrews K Florida State
7(178) Franklin Thomas TE Grambling
8(205) Cedric Jackson RB Texas Christian
9(231) Darryl Milburn DE Grambling
11(285) Slip Watkins WR Louisiana State
12(318) Zeno Alexander LB Arizona

1990
1(7) Andre Ware QB Houston
2(35) Dan Owens DT USC
3(62) Marc Spindler DT Pittsburgh
4(90) Rob Hinckley LB Stanford
4(105) Chris Oldham DB Oregon
5(118) Jeff Campbell WR Colorado
6(147) Maurice Henry LB Kansas State
7(174) Tracy Hayworth LB Tennessee
8(194) Willie Green WR Mississippi
8(203) Roman Fortin G San Diego State
9(229) Jack Linn T West Virginia
10(258) Bill Miller WR Illinois State
11(285) Reginald Warnsley RB Southern Mississippi
12(313) Robert Claiborne WR San Diego State

1989
1(3) Barry Sanders RB Oklahoma State
2(30) John Ford WR Virginia
3(59) Mike Utley G Washington State
4(86) Ray Crockett DB Baylor
5(115) Lawrence Pete DT Nebraska
6(141) Rodney Peete QB USC
7(170) Jerry Woods DB Northern Michigan
8(197) Chris Parker DT West Virginia
9(226) Derek MacCready DE Ohio State
10(253) Jason Phillips WR Houston
11(282) Keith Karpinski LB Penn State
12(309) James Cribbs DE Memphis State

1988
1(3) Bennie Blades DB Miami (FL)
2(29) Chris Spielman LB Ohio State
2(32) Pat Carter TE Florida State
3(58) Ray Roundtree WR Penn State
4(85) William White DB Ohio State
5(111) Eric Andolsek G Louisiana State
6(142) Carl Painter RB Hampton
7(169) Jeff James WR Stanford
8(196) Gary Hadd DE Minnesota
9(223) Kip Corrington DB Texas A&M
9(234) Todd Irvin T Mississippi
10(254) Paco Craig WR UCLA
11(281) Danny McCoin QB Cincinnati
1987
1(7) Reggie Rogers DE Washington
3(63) Jerry Ball DT Southern Methodist
4(92) Garland Rivers DB Michigan
6(148) Danny Lockett LB Arizona
7(175) Dan Saleamua DT Arizona State
8(203) Dennis Gibson LB Iowa State
9(230) Rick Calhoun RB Fullerton State
10(259) Raynard Brown WR South Carolina
11(286) Brian Siverling TE Penn State
12(315)Gary Lee WR Georgia Tech
1986
1(12) Chuck Long QB Iowa
2(29) Gary James RB Louisiana State
3(69) Joe Milnichik T North Carolina State
4(92) Devon Mitchell DB Iowa
5(119) Oscar Smith RB Nicholls State
8(205) Allyn Griffin WR Wyoming
9(231) Lyle Pickens DB Colorado
10(258) Tracy Johnson LB Morningside
11(290) Leland Melvin WR Richmond
12(317) Allan Durden DB Arizona



You tell me if the Sanders era Lions were a well run organization. I see a few nice picks other than Sanders, but folks keep saying the Lions did not win anything with Barry. What did he have around him? I think the argument for Bush is not that he would win games all by himself, but he would change the complexion of our offense all by himself. Teams would have to account for him and AJ. I'm not in the Bush or bust camp. If we can get a good trade down and still get Ferguson or some defensive help them I'll be on board. But we better make sure we know what we are doing on draft day no matter who we pick.
 
Perhaps the Texans can look at the Lions with Barry Sanders and learn from their mistakes and not repeat them here in Houston.
 
I do recall a team that took the best RB in college real high on the draft before. I recall it involved Steve Largent going to the Seahawks and a TE by the name of Oscar Giles going to the Bucs. It was the Houston Oilers who drafted Earl Campbell. Although Steve Largent and Oscar Giles had good careers none took their team to the AFC championship.

Isn't ironic that another Houston team has a chance at the best RB in the draft again?
 
To those who want Reggie Bush...
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Bad analogy. The Lions organization sucks now and sucked then. Of course you can't build a winner around one player.

What we are hoping is that Reggie Bush is ONE OF the last pieces of the puzzle, much like Emmitt Smith was ONE OF the last pieces of the Cowboy puzzle that led to 3 Super Bowl trophies....
 
Hervoyel said:
The Lions lack of progress during the Sanders years is an indictment of the teams inability to assemble the necessary talent around Barry Sanders to get the job done. You can't blame Barry because the Lions consistently made poor choices in the draft and hired a parade of boobs to coach their team.

I do not blame Barry Sanders and honestly believe he was one of the best backs to ever play the game. I am simply making the statement that teams win championships, one player cannot be a team's savior, and that our organization has begun to mirror that of the Lions for some of the very reasons you mentioned. This organization has been spotty at best in both the draft and free agency, reaching on some players and not properly utilizing those that we obtain. It was more of a word of caution to all those who think the signing of Bush will usher in a period of the Texans dominance over the NFL, where Lombardi trophies seem rain from the skies. Unless we see significant improvement from the front office we may indeed end up looking more like those Lions than we would like to. As I said before I would not be upset if we did in fact pick Bush, I just believe all options should be explored without the pick simply being a foregone conclusion.
 
Apologies. Houston traded swapped with Tampa to get Earl at the #1 spot in 78. Man that makes me not want to trade down.
 
this is a really bad arguement.

I guess the Colts shouldve just traded down when they picked manning. how many rings does he have? 0

obviously 1 player cant win a championship, so trading down is the way to go! the colts and lions wouldve been so much better off if they had traded their #1 and #3 picks because those guys just didnt help the team as much as 2-3 later picks wouldve!

brilliant
 
QBs have a bigger role than any other position on offense.

Compared to the QB, the RB is just a low-level executive.
 
gg no re said:
QBs have a bigger role than any other position on offense.

Compared to the QB, the RB is just a low-level executive.

I disagree. When half the plays you call in the course of the season are running plays they are more equal in importance than that.

Barry Sanders never won a Super Bowl for Detroit which (outside this thread - no offense TAddict) is always thrown up as a reason why we shouldn't draft Reggie Bush. Barry Sanders didn't have a QB in his time.

Well Dan Marino never won one either and guess what he lacked? That's right, no running back to speak of. What happens to (most) QB's who lack a running game is remarkably similar to what you see with star RB's. Lots of stats and not enough wins. No trophies.
 
Hervoyel said:
Well Dan Marino never won one either and guess what he lacked? That's right, no running back to speak of. What happens to (most) QB's who lack a running game is remarkably similar to what you see with star RB's. Lots of stats and not enough wins. No trophies.

Elway didn't win either, that is until Denver picked up a running game.

I would love to have Bush, and I would love to trade and get a bunch of picks. Bush would open things up and an OL could start to give us a decent line, Hawk wouldn't be such a bad pick up for the D either.

One question I raise though is, what if Bush decided he didn't want to play for the Texans? What if he decided to pull an Eli? I haven't seen anything questioning that so I thought I would throw it out there.
 
Hervoyel said:
You can't blame Barry because the Lions consistently made poor choices in the draft and hired a parade of boobs to coach their team.

Fontes and Bobby Ross were the only two head coaches during the Sanders era so that would hardly qualify as a parade, but I won't argue the boob list pre and post Sanders, with gems like Mornhinweg, Darryl Rogers, and Monte Clark.

Five starting QBs (Peete, Mitchell, Kramer, Krieg, Batch) during that period and a defense that consistently ranked in the bottom half of the NFL didn't help the cause either.

It's clear that the supporting cast, including sound coaching and management, has to be there to enable success.
 
Hervoyel said:
I disagree. When half the plays you call in the course of the season are running plays they are more equal in importance than that.

Not to mention when your RB is the team's leading receiver, you begin to see his importance.

Barry Sanders was wasted in Detroit. He never had a good team around him.

Marino never won the big one, largely because they never had a running game and relied too much on one dimension. Quick - name the best RB Marino ever played with...

The Texans have decent special teams, an above-average QB (look around the league), Davis, AJ, Mathis, Robinson, Walker - they have talent. Bush could be another ingredient. They still need better defense and a coaching change, but to pass on Bush because of Sanders' career is, bluntly, stupid. Bush isn't Sanders, but he is an athlete that could bring an impact to the team.

The Texan's tossing a bunch of picks in a pile to move up and grab him right now would not make sense. However, in the position where he's yours for the taking - you take him. Then continue to build, and not squander your subsequent picks, like we have been doing.

JMO
 
Txn_in_VA said:
One question I raise though is, what if Bush decided he didn't want to play for the Texans? What if he decided to pull an Eli? I haven't seen anything questioning that so I thought I would throw it out there.


I don't think this is much of an issue. Reggie Bush seems like a pretty down to earth person who just wants the chance to play. I also think that since he has been hanging out with LaDainian Tomlinson so much that he wouldn't pull an Eli considering that LaDainian has been pretty outspoken about Eli's choice of demanding a trade and refusing to play for San Diego.
 
TexanAddict said:
I do not blame Barry Sanders and honestly believe he was one of the best backs to ever play the game. I am simply making the statement that teams win championships, one player cannot be a team's savior, and that our organization has begun to mirror that of the Lions for some of the very reasons you mentioned. This organization has been spotty at best in both the draft and free agency, reaching on some players and not properly utilizing those that we obtain. It was more of a word of caution to all those who think the signing of Bush will usher in a period of the Texans dominance over the NFL, where Lombardi trophies seem rain from the skies. Unless we see significant improvement from the front office we may indeed end up looking more like those Lions than we would like to. As I said before I would not be upset if we did in fact pick Bush, I just believe all options should be explored without the pick simply being a foregone conclusion.

I understand. Teams win championships. Teams are built from players and coaches. You can pile up talent and fail to coach it (Oilers of the early to mid 90's) and you can give the most brilliant coaches in the world nothing to work with and it looks like the exact same thing.

You have to start somewhere and whether you start with your usual number of picks in the draft or a few extra picks it's not going to change the fact that it takes repeated drafts to put together the players. Does anyone think we're going to get offered 5 players and 8 picks by someone for the right to say "Reggie Bush" on draft day? It won't be a Herschel Walker kind of deal. It's going to be more of a Ricky Williams kind of deal and probably not even that big.

That has me wondering something. Since the Ricky Williams "fiasco" with Ditka trading his entire draft just to get that one player is like the "perfect storm" scenario for trading Reggie Bush (someone stupid enough to give up a ton to get this guy) lets look at that.

Who did the the Saints trade with? Was it the Redskins? Were those Charlie Casserly GM'd Redskins? What did Cass do with the windfall he got from trading Ricky Williams rights?

Well he got Champ Bailey. That's cool. What did he do with all those other picks? I don't know because in 1999 it looks like the Redskins only had 6 selections. He must have traded them or something. The next season he (or whoever was there) got LaVar Arrington and Chris Samuels in the first (according to nfl.com's draft history). He had 8 picks in 2000 (no 2nd rounders but an extra 1 and an extra 7). Following that 1999 deal I just don't see the overwhelming improvement a trade down like that is supposed to generate. I don't see the multitude of kick butt players that came in as a result of passing on Ricky Williams.

Color me not all that impressed with the "windfall" I pray we don't see what kind of "bounty" Casserly brings home for Reggie Bush's rights. Hopefully he's gone by then.
 
aj. said:
Fontes and Bobby Ross were the only two head coaches during the Sanders era so that would hardly qualify as a parade, but I won't argue the boob list pre and post Sanders, with gems like Mornhinweg, Darryl Rogers, and Monte Clark.

Five starting QBs (Peete, Mitchell, Kramer, Krieg, Batch) during that period and a defense that consistently ranked in the bottom half of the NFL didn't help the cause either.

It's clear that the supporting cast, including sound coaching and management, has to be there to enable success.

Quite correct. I was throwing pre-Sanders and post-Sanders history in there. My bad on that one.
 
Let's see -

we can't draft Reggie because of Sanders.
we can't draft Hawk because he has a cool name like Tracy Rocker..who was a bust.
we can't a fast CB from Miami because look at PBuc.
we can't draft a WR because what has Troy Williamson done?
we can't draft a safety - Sean Taylor hasn't won a ring neither has Roy Williams.
We can't draft Vince Young because of Randall, McNabb, and Vick
We can't draft Brick because look at what happened to Mandarich..

With the 1st pick overall in the 2006 draft, the Texans select Marcedes Lewis (Crap! We already have Joppru and what has he done?)

oops...With the 1st pick overall in the 2006 draft, the Texans select


...a Fullback! Daryl Johnston won SUperbowls baby!! Fullback it is!

:ok:
 
Hervoyel said:
Well he got Champ Bailey. That's cool. What did he do with all those other picks? I don't know because in 1999 it looks like the Redskins only had 6 selections. He must have traded them or something. The next season he (or whoever was there) got LaVar Arrington and Chris Samuels in the first (according to nfl.com's draft history). He had 8 picks in 2000 (no 2nd rounders but an extra 1 and an extra 7). Following that 1999 deal I just don't see the overwhelming improvement a trade down like that is supposed to generate. I don't see the multitude of kick butt players that came in as a result of passing on Ricky Williams.

Color me not all that impressed with the "windfall" I pray we don't see what kind of "bounty" Casserly brings home for Reggie Bush's rights. Hopefully he's gone by then.

Herv you just listed 3 pro bowlers for one guy. Plus you have to add Jon Jansen on that list. That type of windfall impresses me. I mean the rest of the picks were at most one or two year depth, but 3 pro-bowlers and a RT that is close. Hell that seems like you got more than value. Three players and one possible HOF(Champ Bailey) for one guy.
 
Something to remember about Sanders was his running style. During his career, Berry was always among the rushing leaders. But, to many people, myself being on of them, he was not a quality running back because of his running style.

Berry tended run east/west alot and if the opportunity presented itself, ran north/south. Berry would have no yardage (or negative yards) for 3-5 plays, then bust one for 10-15 yards. In contract, running backs that gind it out, like Emmitt Smith and Terrell Davis, would put his head down push the pile forward. Something Berry never did. Since 3rd and 3 yards in easier to get then 3rd and 10, grinders take a huge burden off of quarterbacks.

Just food for thought!

:twocents:
 
Wharton said:
During his career, Berry was always among the rushing leaders. But, toy many people, myself being on of them, he was not a quality running back because of his running style.

I'm sorry, but I must beg to differ. Any back, regardless of running style, that averages 5.0 yards per carry for his career must at least be considered a quality running back.
 
Coach C. said:
Herv you just listed 3 pro bowlers for one guy. Plus you have to add Jon Jansen on that list. That type of windfall impresses me. I mean the rest of the picks were at most one or two year depth, but 3 pro-bowlers and a RT that is close. Hell that seems like you got more than value. Three players and one possible HOF(Champ Bailey) for one guy.

Yes and this was a result of the Saints entire 1999 draft and I understand a pick or two the following year. I do not expect anyone to do that again for Reggie Bush. Nobody wants to step up and be the next Mike Ditka giving up the farm for one guy. I don't think you get anywhere near that kind of value for Bush this season. That's a fantasy at best.

What do you think Charlie is going to get for Reggie Bush? Three Pro Bowl players? I'll be (pleasantly) stunned to see something like that happen. In a world where you can't trade Edge James for a 1 and the memory of what Ditka gave for Williams (as well as what Williams did to the Dolphins last season) is still fairly current in GM's minds I doubt anyone is willing to put that many eggs in one basket again.

A couple of 1's and maybe a 2 is going to be nice. We'll see. The point of my post was that the skins got that and we're (probably) not going to get that.
 
TexanAddict said:
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:

100% agree. positive rep inc :)
 
Here is the problem folks... Its a gamble! Number one draft picks are a scam and a waste of money! They have yet to prove themselves in the NFL and yet the are offered so much serious money! Bad move! I say offer him the big bonus money after he makes some plays and is a value to the team. A structured contract so that IF he makes it past the first few years and CAN play NFL football then he recieves it!! He ain't worth the money! trade him and get an O line!!!!!!!!!! What is that?? you ask! "those are the people that should block the opposing defense and prevent our QB from being sacked... yea, thats right! We forget that part... OUR O-LINE SUCKS!!!! Ask David! Actually after we trade him (Bush) we should have enough money left over to buy a freakin playbook! Cause our sucks too!!!!!!!! We have no imagination, no playcalling we SUCK!!

Imagine this you have a college grad and he comes to your company and get a few million dollars in salary when HE STARTS WORK! Yet, you have been there forever and have made a contribution to the company year after year...yet you get only get 85,000 a year... and haven't seen a bonus in years... A crock!! Trade Reggie and let him fail someplace else!

Tha Mighty Texan!!
 
Awseome post by TAddict it's the same exact thing that i've been saying while I would LOVE to see Reggie Bush in a Texan's jersey I'm not sure if it's the right move right now.. We have a lot of holes to fill and unless Bush can play CB, LB, TE, OT and HB all at the same time.. we still are up ish creek with no paddle.. but like he said I wouldnt have a hissy fit if they picked Bush.. but at the same time I think extra day 1 picks would be a great option to look at too..
 
Some caller called 610 on Monday, made a point that just because we pick Bush #1, doesn't mean that the draft is over! Lots of good players can be found the in the later rounds.....SO DRAFT BUSH!
 
HeartofHouston said:
We have a lot of holes to fill and unless Bush can play CB, LB, TE, OT and HB all at the same time


Why can't we get a CB, LB, TE, and OT with our other draft picks and through free agency? We have four picks on the first day this year. We can get Reggie Bush and fill holes at the same time.
 
Thing is, before last year we were a couple of good players away from being playoff contenders. Casserly gambled away our hopes when he brought in Buchannon that cost us 2 very good picks as well as a starter in glenn. He set us back 3 full players with that move. So we have to make up for the 3 player loss this year, and even more if we can't sign a couple of guys. If we are to turn it around this year we HAVE to trade down a few spots and gain some coveted picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. DD has issues with staying on the field but we already have Wells, Morency and Hollings. We can lose Wells to Free Agency, no biggie and we still have 3 backs. We draft Bush that makes it 4, and really only 2 get playing time. If we have issues with DD staying on the field then the solution was supposed to be Morency and Wells. If we draft Bush then we bump Morency down and basically make him worthless, another 3rd round pick wasted unless we trade DD. That's a lot gambling, but hey, who said Casserly is not a gambler. I for one am sick of the gambling.
 
With the situation some quality backs found themselves in last off season, I just don't know if we would get the kind of super-package offered to us all for Bush.

But, if we picked him, then had a smart draft throughout the rest of it (I know - pipe dreams), then maybe this could be a special off season.

Do I expect one guy to carry us to the playoffs? Of course not. We need new blood, and not just in players. That said, Bush could be something special. Like I said, I wouldn't trade the farm to get him, because we're not in such dire need for him, but if he's offered to us on a silver platter, well then that's another story.

As far as him not wanting to come to Houston, I think of all teams the Saints will have the hardest time signing talent. Ask yourself if you would want to go through the kind of season they've had.
 
:tv: Barry Sanders gave the Lions a name . The Lions sold tickets because people would pay to see Barry . If Barry ran behind the Cowboys OL he 'd probably have all the rushing records . The DC had to plan to stop Sanders.

Now why would not take a guy who's compared to great players ? If Carr and Sanders were in the same who do you take ? I'm not so much for Bush as I am against folks doing the backward enginering .
 
You have to look at salary cap issues as well, we've had 5 1st round picks, 3 in the top 10. If we draft Bush that's 4. It's a lot of money to tied up in a few players.

Carr - 3 years, 16.5 mil w/ 8mil bonus = 8.16mil a year
A. Johnson - 6 years, $39mil with 13.51 bonus = 8.751mil a year.
Robinson - 5 years, $10.698mil w/ 8mil bonus. = 3.73mil a year.
J. Babin - 6 years, $7 mil w/ 3.5mil bonus = 1.75mil a year
T. Johnson - 5 years, 10.2 mil w/ 7.77 bonus = 3.594 a year.

between those 5 guys, only 3 who are certified starters, they average about $26 mil a year, almost 1 quarter of the team. Add Bush to this and see what you get.
 
TexanAddict said:
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:

You hit the nail on the head w/ this one. If he was to be selected great. But if other areas are not addressed, I think we'll all be very disppointed.
 
The main arguement that I see for Bush is that we can wait on the OL. The only problem is that we have done this for 4 years, and it took us full circle back to the number one pick. Number one picks also cost a lot of money for an unproven player. I wish something could be done about how much money draftees get in their respective rounds, something along the lines of "if you do this..., then you get $x.00", but the CBA has to deal with that, so it will never be addressed. Bush is an amazing talent, but his hype is what mainly pushes me away from him when we have so many other glaring needs. I will support him if we take him, but I think we would be better off by trading this pick away.
 
Texans86 said:
The main arguement that I see for Bush is that we can wait on the OL. The only problem is that we have done this for 4 years, and it took us full circle back to the number one pick. Number one picks also cost a lot of money for an unproven player. I wish something could be done about how much money draftees get in their respective rounds, something along the lines of "if you do this..., then you get $x.00", but the CBA has to deal with that, so it will never be addressed. Bush is an amazing talent, but his hype is what mainly pushes me away from him when we have so many other glaring needs. I will support him if we take him, but I think we would be better off by trading this pick away.
I agree. For far too long we've ignored the OL, maybe using late-round picks here or there on some very questionable players, and it's brought us all the way down. This draft is the perfect opportunity to correct our mistakes, and if we miss it over a bunch of hype it will be the downfall of this franchise...again.
 
I don't think anyone who wants to pick Bush wants to completely ignore the OL or use late round picks on the OL. Most of the Bush supporters want him because they realize that the OL depth in the draft is very deep and that we can get a quality lineman with our second pick.
 
i would like to take this opportunity to point out that barry sanders was a beast in tecmo super bowl. That is all.
 
Just think of the deal that could be pulled off if Mcnair dangled Bush out in front of the other owners. There is no telling what we could get for him. How bout a couple of proven o-linemen. This is what they they need the most.
______________________________

Proud Member of the Can Cassery Club.:cool:
 
tulexan said:
I don't think anyone who wants to pick Bush wants to completely ignore the OL or use late round picks on the OL. Most of the Bush supporters want him because they realize that the OL depth in the draft is very deep and that we can get a quality lineman with our second pick.

Yeah, what he said. I'm thinking a the best OT with the 33rd pick, one pick out of the 1st round. To be honest the Texans choices after the third round haven't really dissappointed me. DD, Mathis though I wouldn't mind a TE this yr. or a defensive player I think that the Texans will make the right choice. Also I think AJ is worth the money, Carr could re-structure his contract (I hope) Robinson is worth it, TJ isn't to bad and Babin could (should) be traded to a team that wants a DE. Considering the cap situation next yr. I think the Texans could handle Bush on their payroll. GO TEXANS!!!!!!
 
Okay first of all, it is entirely stupid and unfair to bush to compare him to barry and the same goes for comparing barry to bush. They aren't even the same type of runner. As far as rbs go for every "barry didn't carry the lions to a championship" argument. (which I think is unfair, he carried them from being a absolute laughing stock in the league and was a damn good player) There is a player like marshel faulk, yeah he didn't help them win a superbowl. :rolleyes: I'm not comparing Bush to Marshall, because again it isn't fair. All I'm saying is people are starting to just make excuses why we should't take him and are really just starting to act scared.

Second people are really starting to sound hypocritical also. They say that bush isn't a sure bet and thats true no player is, but then they act if we trade down all the picks we aquire will be. Whose to say if we trade down and pick up extra picks we'll even aquire talent equivelent to bush if he ends up having a great career and all we got was maybe a above avg. player, a avg. player, and a couple of people that didn't even make the cut. Remember one of the points that was brought up in the "Barry didn't help the Lions" and the "Lions are comparable to the texans" arguments was that we had a sketchy front office, but they want to trust that same front office to pull off a trade involving one of the most acclaimed players to come out in some time, does that make any sense. Sometimes the worst pick a franchise can make is the pick they don't make.

Also how can any argue that Washington trading away Ricky helped them even if they did pick up a possible HOFer in Bailey, THEY ENDED UP TRADING HIM FOR YOU GEUSSED IT A RB (who is one of the big reasons they might be going to the playoffs) and Lavar doesn't even play for them anymore.

I would rather watch Bush become a bust or not live up to expectations, than be known as the team that traded away his rights for a starter and maybe a situational guy and a couple that aren't even on the team anymore and then had to sit back and watch him become great.
 
He hasn't stayed healthy for a full season yet!! Why do people think he's the back of the future for the Texans? If we had Bush, we could make use of him and Davis.
 
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