The time for the team to quit on O’Brien is NOW!

[76Texan]

You don't believe any 'proofs' unless they'reyour proofs. You refuse to acknowledge that all eyes may not see the same

When I talk about proofs, they need to be something concrete, or close to it.

For example, a NT/DT with 3 solos and 3 assists ís quite rare.
That would translate to 48 solos and 48 for assists (total 96 combined) for a full year.
Compared that to Vince Wilfork career stats here:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilfVi20.htm
His single year high in solo tackle was 45, his high in assists was 23, his high in total combined tackles was 66.

Reader's number does not reflect the play of a NT having his arse handed to him (Steelb); it doesn't reflect his "being JAG' by you.

.................

A run going through a defender's gap is the worse; that's undisputable.
That was why I asked whether any you guys saw any of that, and none of you have said anything.

A NT in the backfield chasing the QB out of the pocket is a great play that is also undeniable, and I saw it, and I can tell you what play (The time, the down and distance) so you can look it up yourself.

A NT getting into the backfield forcing the RB to change direction is an individual win.
That's also ỉrrefutable. A tackle for loss, obviously is even better.

Things like that are concrete evidence.

 

[steelbtexan]

A team giving up over 200 yds rushing in a game is also extremely rare. It generally means theDL is thoroughly getting its a** kicked and the LB's stink too.

 

[76Texan]

You calling someone else stubborn

And let me make it clear to you here:

Determination is a positive emotional feeling that involves persevering towards a difficult goal in spite of obstacles.
Stubbornness is unreasonably unyielding.

They are two totally different things.

 

[76Texan]

A team giving up over 200 yds rushing in a game is also extremely rare. It generally means the OL is thoroughly getting its a** kicked and the LB's stink too.

You are right about the team and the DL in general.
But that does not necessarily apply to all players.

Look back at JJ Watt's career.
There were games that he absolutely kicked ass, but his team still had a bad game defensively.

 

[Texaninlild]

The title of this thread bugs the crap out of me. My brain would never go there telling people to give up or quit on anything.

 

[Mr teX]

When I talk about proofs, they need to be something concrete, or close to it.

For example, a NT/DT with 3 solos and 3 assists ís quite rare.
That would translate to 48 solos and 48 for assists (total 96 combined) for a full year.
Compared that to Vince Wilfork career stats here:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilfVi20.htm
His single year high in solo tackle was 45, his high in assists was 23, his high in total combined tackles was 66.

Reader's number does not reflect the play of a NT having his arse handed to him (Steelb); it doesn't reflect his "being JAG' by you.

.................

A run going through a defender's gap is the worse; that's undisputable.
That was why I asked whether any you guys saw any of that, and none of you have said anything.

A NT in the backfield chasing the QB out of the pocket is a great play that is also undeniable, and I saw it, and I can tell you what play (The time, the down and distance) so you can look it up yourself.

A NT getting into the backfield forcing the RB to change direction is an individual win.
That's also ỉrrefutable. A tackle for loss, obviously is even better.

Things like that are concrete evidence.

yeah, just like we know Morlon Greenwood’s 15 tackles a game meant that he was a stellar defensive player..tackling machine ........nevermind the fact that those tackles were happening 5+ yards down the field....most times coming right over his area.

Or how about Schaub's 2009 season where he passed for 4800 yds and threw 29 TD's.....nevermind most of those stats were accumulated in garbage time.

Or how about how you and others like to point to Kubiak's great offenses finishing top 10 when he was here...That's great, what did those top 10 offenses get us before Wade arrived? 8-8, 8-8 & 9-7.

Your "proofs" amount to little more than your own personal interpretations of what you think a stat reflects and how a player's performance correlates with what YOU think. The problem is when those stats don't line up to what you think, you go into excuse mode.......if its a player that you like that is. The other problem with you "analysis" is you don't know how to assess these stats within the context of the overall setting & purpose. Case & point, you real off Reader's stats and say "for comparison, look at Wilfork's numbers"...The problem there is Wilfork's numbers most times translated across the entire defense's performance. Even with him though, he was only an all-pro once....defense ranked #6 against the run that year. So for a guy like Reader who was brought in to be the crown jewel of a retooled defensive front to help shore up the run, Reader's numbers so far don't purport have helped Cincy shore up anything, therefore you using his individual stats are pretty meaningless. What you should be asking is, what was he brought there to do & has his presence made a difference. Obviously, as of right now, that is a clear and decisive "no" & truth be told, we weren't even that good against the run last year WITH him...What's your excuse there, that Crennel didn't know how to design a defense?

Your objectivity in such matters cannot be trusted depending on where you come down on the player.

 

[TheKDog]

DeAndre quit on him

 

[76Texan]

yeah, just like we know Morlon Greenwood’s 15 tackles a game meant that he was a stellar defensive player..tackling machine ........nevermind the fact that those tackles were happening 5+ yards down the field....most times coming right over his area.

Or how about Schaub's 2009 season where he passed for 4800 yds and threw 29 TD's.....nevermind most of those stats were accumulated in garbage time.

Or how about how you and others like to point to Kubiak's great offenses finishing top 10 when he was here...That's great, what did those top 10 offenses get us before Wade arrived? 8-8, 8-8 & 9-7.

Your "proofs" amount to little more than your own personal interpretations of what you think a stat reflects and how a player's performance correlates with what YOU think. The problem is when those stats don't line up to what you think, you go into excuse mode.......if its a player that you like that is. The other problem with you "analysis" is you don't know how to assess these stats within the context of the overall setting & purpose. Case & point, you real off Reader's stats and say "for comparison, look at Wilfork's numbers"...The problem there is Wilfork's numbers most times translated across the entire defense's performance. Even with him though, he was only an all-pro once....defense ranked #6 against the run that year. So for a guy like Reader who was brought in to be the crown jewel of a retooled defensive front to help shore up the run, Reader's numbers so far don't purport have helped Cincy shore up anything, therefore you using his individual stats are pretty meaningless. What you should be asking is, what was he brought there to do & has his presence made a difference. Obviously, as of right now, that is a clear and decisive "no" & truth be told, we weren't even that good against the run last year WITH him...What's your excuse there, that Crennel didn't know how to design a defense?

Your objectivity in such matters cannot be trusted depending on where you come down on the player.

Just like usual, you're all over the place.
Each position is different.
When you talk about a NT/DT like Reader, bring up example of similar players, like Vince Wilfork.
Forget about the other positions.

Now, I had already said that Reader was "overpaid" for his value to the team.
I never disputed that ('cause there's not enough evidence yet and also the importance of a player at that position is historically not great - like in Wilfork's case.)

But to measure the value of a defensive player, it's probably about "big play" ability.
Like we saw how JJ Watt can be disruptive in the backfield.
Or how some of those safeties that can read the play and fly all over the field making big plays, especially in key moments.

There are only about 10 offensive drives per game.
An average NFL teams score roughly 25 passing TDs and 14 rushing TDs a season.
That's an average of 2.44 TDs per game (2019 stats)
They average 1.56 FGs per game.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/
(Besides TDs by returns, Ints, Fumbles)

So, on the average, a team is successful or semi-successful on 4 drives a game.
That means the defense need to put up 6 stops to be average.

The Bengals spend roughly an equal amount of cap space on either side of the ball.
Reader's part is 4.83% of the total cap space, and 9.67% of the defense; I'll round it up to 10%
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/positional/defense/2020/
So, his contribution value should be at least 10% of the total defense to justify his contract value.

Reader's major contributions in the Browns game were:

- Reader was double teamed by the LG and the LT. He was able to get through the gap and chased the QB out of the pocket. That helped the edge defender to put additional pressure on Baker, forcing an intentional grounding call for 15 yards.
It stopped one drive.
Reader should get partial credit for that, correct?

- Reader made two key plays plus an assist on the goal line stand, forcing the turnover on down.
All the credits (or the vast majority of the credit) should go to Reader. Yes, No?

1.5 major stops on 6 drives that needed to be stop is 25% (which is 250% or 2.5 x threshold).
Even if you want to bump up his cap space to 15% (instead of 10%), his value in this particular game is still more than justified.

His other contributions:

2 13:28 1 10 CLE 43 Nick Chubb up the middle for 1 yard (tackle by Jessie Bates)

2 5:25 1 10 CLE 37 Nick Chubb left guard for -1 yards (tackle by D.J. Reader)
Lining up at NT on a 5 man front vs the I, Reader put the C on the ground (and the LG as well in the process of the fall of the dominoes) to make the TFL on Chubb.

2 2:00 1 10 CIN 23 Nick Chubb right guard for 1 yard (tackle by Freedom Akinmoladun)

3 11:50 1 10 CLE 48 Baker Mayfield pass incomplete short left intended for Austin Hooper
Reader beat 64 (even though the C cheated with a non-call hold) and chased Mayfield out of the pocket. This allowed the ROLB 59 to come up and forced the hurried throw by Mayfield that was off-target.

3 11:42 2 10 CLE 48 Nick Chubb up the middle for 2 yards (tackle by Christian Covington)

4 4:10 1 10 CIN 12 Kareem Hunt up the middle for 1 yard (tackle by D.J. Reader and Josh Bynes)
Reader disengaged from his man to wrap up the runner's legs while the other defender tackle up high, minimizing the gain to just one yard.

He was also in on at least another 3 plays where the runner gained 3, 3, 4 yards.
There were also plays where he won, like when he pressured Mayfield out of the pocket, but the QB completed the pass any way.

.......................

I don't know about you, but to me, that's pretty good play for a NT.

Oh, and BTW, the Brown only 9 offensive drives in this game (disregard the one play kneel down by Mayfield to end the game).

And let's not forget that the Chargers only scored 16 points in the first game.

................

Furthermore, my original/main intention was to dispute Steelb's claim that Reader had his arse handed to him.
I wasn't out to prove that Reader had a great game; the evidences just led me closer to that end.

 

[Double Barrel]

You mean like The Ravens have the last 2 years under Harbaugh? Ask a Ravens fan if it was any less disappointing.....deflating...angering that they went 1 and done the last 2 seasons with the most exciting player in the league, MVP and the best record in the league.

You guys are looking for a reason to throw your support behind the team..a reason to “believe” and are using the regular season record as some sort of “proof” that maybe that means they can go all the way. Reality is, it don’t mean **** and Even when you think you have this “team that can compete with the great teams” or in the Ravens’ case a team with the best record, it means very little in a league with a playoff structure where 1 loss and you’re done...

A lot of you guys remind me of that character Randy Quaid played in those major league movies. “ so what, they’ll blow it in the playoffs!” Lol. From my perspective, you either believe or you don’t and so many people allow what happens in 1 or 2 weeks to color their fandom. Season’s a marathon.

The Ravens have TWO NFL championships in their history.

Why?

Because they have an owner that knows how to hire competent football people to run their franchise.

And as a result of that history and trust in ownership, the fan base has HOPE.

What do we have? "AFC South Champions two years in a row, Brian."

Stop being so myopic. This team is going nowhere with O'Brien running it. It doesn't require Miss Cleo to read those obvious tea leaves.

 

[ATXtexanfan]

I quit on OB last year

Just sayin

 

[TheKDog]

I quit on OB last year

Just sayin

I quit on him after the Hoyer-Mallet stuff. It was clear he had no clue at that point.

 

[Double Barrel]

I quit on OB last year

Just sayin

I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt over the years. I've tried to be objective every new season. I've tried to see the perception that his supporters see.

But the Nuk trade revealed to me that he's just stupid. Intelligent, yeah, of course, but still stupid just the same.

And we all know that you can't fix stupid.

 

[Mr teX]

The Ravens have TWO NFL championships in their history.

Why?

Because they have an owner that knows how to hire competent football people to run their franchise.

And as a result of that history and trust in ownership, the fan base has HOPE.

What do we have? "AFC South Champions two years in a row, Brian."

Stop being so myopic. This team is going nowhere with O'Brien running it. It doesn't require Miss Cleo to read those obvious tea leaves.

Myopic? the only ones being myopic are you guys who have chosen to let the last 6 years under 1 regime color your entire fandom for the foreseeable future.

This isn’t about BoB, b/c as we know the same sentiment was expressed by you and others about Kubiak when he was here. Competent football people were hired in that instance..& in the instance before him with Dom Capers..Both of those guys went on to win SB’s with other teams as OC/DC & Kubiak as a HC. So what happened here then?

If nothing else that should tell you that all of the nonsense your talking about “hiring good football people” is bunk. He’ll, that’s all we’ve done and it hasn’t worked out........as it usually doesn’t for MOST teams.

It’s just the luck of the draw is all. I get the frustration, but if it’s that bad, whydo you even tune in at 12 on Sundays?

 

[powda]

Myopic? the only ones being myopic are you guys who have chosen to let the last 6 years under 1 regime color your entire fandom for the foreseeable future.

This isn’t about BoB, b/c as we know the same sentiment was expressed by you and others about Kubiak when he was here. Competent football people were hired in that instance..& in the instance before him with Dom Capers..Both of those guys went on to win SB’s with other teams as OC/DC & Kubiak as a HC. So what happened here then?

If nothing else that should tell you that all of the nonsense your talking about “hiring good football people” is bunk. He’ll, that’s all we’ve done and it hasn’t worked out........as it usually doesn’t for MOST teams.

It’s just the luck of the draw is all. I get the frustration, but if it’s that bad, whydo you even tune in at 12 on Sundays?

So where the Pat's just luckier then everyone else or just better?

 

[powda]

Myopic? the only ones being myopic are you guys who have chosen to let the last 6 years under 1 regime color your entire fandom for the foreseeable future.

This isn’t about BoB, b/c as we know the same sentiment was expressed by you and others about Kubiak when he was here. Competent football people were hired in that instance..& in the instance before him with Dom Capers..Both of those guys went on to win SB’s with other teams as OC/DC & Kubiak as a HC. So what happened here then?

If nothing else that should tell you that all of the nonsense your talking about “hiring good football people” is bunk. He’ll, that’s all we’ve done and it hasn’t worked out........as it usually doesn’t for MOST teams.

It’s just the luck of the draw is all. I get the frustration, but if it’s that bad, whydo you even tune in at 12 on Sundays?

So much wrong in this post.

 

[Mr teX]

So where the Pat's just luckier then everyone else or just better?

He’ll yeah they were lucky. Belichick’s hire was not thought of very highly by fans in NE after his stint in Cleveland. Then you factor in how he took the Jets job, then untook it to be the Pats HC...where it turns out that, this guy can actually coach a little.

Then you factor in the improbability of TB12 as a 6th round draft pick actually panning out and his ascension by way of Bledsoe a pro bowl QB getting hurt....precisely at the point when TB12 was ready to take over. If Bledsoe goes down a year earlier, TB12 isn’t getting the nod to go in, it’s another guy.

. .I’d say there’s quite a bit of luck that befell them to kickstart their dynasty.

people don’t like to believe that luck sometimes plays that big a role in the success and failures of their teams, but it’s the truth. The above scenario could’ve easily had the Jets being the greatest dynasty of the last 20 years and not the Pats.

 

[Mr teX]

So much wrong in this post.

Elaborate sir

 

[Mr teX]

Just like usual, you're all over the place.
Each position is different.
When you talk about a NT/DT like Reader, bring up example of similar players, like Vince Wilfork.
Forget about the other positions.

Now, I had already said that Reader was "overpaid" for his value to the team.
I never disputed that ('cause there's not enough evidence yet and also the importance of a player at that position is historically not great - like in Wilfork's case.)

But to measure the value of a defensive player, it's probably about "big play" ability.
Like we saw how JJ Watt can be disruptive in the backfield.
Or how some of those safeties that can read the play and fly all over the field making big plays, especially in key moments.

There are only about 10 offensive drives per game.
An average NFL teams score roughly 25 passing TDs and 14 rushing TDs a season.
That's an average of 2.44 TDs per game (2019 stats)
They average 1.56 FGs per game.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/
(Besides TDs by returns, Ints, Fumbles)

So, on the average, a team is successful or semi-successful on 4 drives a game.
That means the defense need to put up 6 stops to be average.

The Bengals spend roughly an equal amount of cap space on either side of the ball.
Reader's part is 4.83% of the total cap space, and 9.67% of the defense; I'll round it up to 10%
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/positional/defense/2020/
So, his contribution value should be at least 10% of the total defense to justify his contract value.

Reader's major contributions in the Browns game were:

- Reader was double teamed by the LG and the LT. He was able to get through the gap and chased the QB out of the pocket. That helped the edge defender to put additional pressure on Baker, forcing an intentional grounding call for 15 yards.
It stopped one drive.
Reader should get partial credit for that, correct?

- Reader made two key plays plus an assist on the goal line stand, forcing the turnover on down.
All the credits (or the vast majority of the credit) should go to Reader. Yes, No?

1.5 major stops on 6 drives that needed to be stop is 25% (which is 250% or 2.5 x threshold).
Even if you want to bump up his cap space to 15% (instead of 10%), his value in this particular game is still more than justified.

His other contributions:

2 13:28 1 10 CLE 43 Nick Chubb up the middle for 1 yard (tackle by Jessie Bates)

2 5:25 1 10 CLE 37 Nick Chubb left guard for -1 yards (tackle by D.J. Reader)
Lining up at NT on a 5 man front vs the I, Reader put the C on the ground (and the LG as well in the process of the fall of the dominoes) to make the TFL on Chubb.

2 2:00 1 10 CIN 23 Nick Chubb right guard for 1 yard (tackle by Freedom Akinmoladun)

3 11:50 1 10 CLE 48 Baker Mayfield pass incomplete short left intended for Austin Hooper
Reader beat 64 (even though the C cheated with a non-call hold) and chased Mayfield out of the pocket. This allowed the ROLB 59 to come up and forced the hurried throw by Mayfield that was off-target.

3 11:42 2 10 CLE 48 Nick Chubb up the middle for 2 yards (tackle by Christian Covington)

4 4:10 1 10 CIN 12 Kareem Hunt up the middle for 1 yard (tackle by D.J. Reader and Josh Bynes)
Reader disengaged from his man to wrap up the runner's legs while the other defender tackle up high, minimizing the gain to just one yard.

He was also in on at least another 3 plays where the runner gained 3, 3, 4 yards.
There were also plays where he won, like when he pressured Mayfield out of the pocket, but the QB completed the pass any way.

.......................

I don't know about you, but to me, that's pretty good play for a NT.

Oh, and BTW, the Brown only 9 offensive drives in this game (disregard the one play kneel down by Mayfield to end the game).

And let's not forget that the Chargers only scored 16 points in the first game.

................

Furthermore, my original/main intention was to dispute Steelb's claim that Reader had his arse handed to him.
I wasn't out to prove that Reader had a great game; the evidences just led me closer to that end.

And like usual you miss the Forest for the trees. Fact is you can’t be taken serious on anything player evaluation related b/c we all know you’re in the bag for your guys. Passing your own set criteria off as “the proofs” Doesn’t make your opinion on what u see anymore valid than someone else’s...no matter how much tape u watch.

your objectivity simply is suspect.

 

[76Texan]

And like usual you miss the Forest for the trees. Fact is you can’t be taken serious on anything player evaluation related b/c we all know you’re in the bag for your guys. Passing your own set criteria off as “the proofs” Doesn’t make your opinion on what u see anymore valid than someone else’s...no matter how much tape u watch.

your objectivity simply is suspect.

On the one hand, you said "allowing few yardage or negative yardage" is good; on the other hand, I had given you the time of the plays for you to check them out for yourself.
You can watch them and tell me how a RB lost a yard on a particular play, now can't you?

 

[Mr teX]

On the one hand, you said "allowing few yardage or negative yardage" is good; on the other hand, I had given you the time of the plays for you to check them out for yourself.
You can watch them and tell me how a RB lost a yard on a particular play, now can't you?

Wrong guy dude...

 

[powda]

Elaborate sir

You think the last 6 years have shaped my fandom? Well hell yes they have, just as the previous regimes have. Most of us recognized the ship was going down before it hit the ocean floor and that's the case again.

Your entitled to your opinion no matter how off base it may be and I respect that ,but dont think for a second I'm not a fan because I'm critical. I have every gd right to say something negative about the team when they do something stupid and I will continue to do so. You may be satisfied with 20 years of mediocre results. Cool, you keep your head in the sand. I'm f'ing not.

Your rant about hiring good personnel is moot. No one hires losers and everyone with real tenure in the nfl has some history of success. So what's your point? The one constant for ob's tenure is OB.

Luck? I might agree with you on a smaller scale like the bounce of a ball that determines the outcome of a single game. Dynasty's aren't built on luck though. You may think TB was a "lucky pick" but was it? Someone paid a scouting department to make that call. Someone coached him up. Someone fielded a team around him that allowed that success. It wasn't by accident.

Some franchises are just more competent then others. I dont care what the magic 8 ball says.

 

[Mr teX]

You think the last 6 years have shaped my fandom? Well hell yes they have, just as the previous regimes have. Most of us recognized the ship was going down before it hit the ocean floor and that's the case again.

Your entitled to your opinion no matter how off base it may be and I respect that ,but dont think for a second I'm not a fan because I'm critical. I have every gd right to say something negative about the team when they do something stupid and I will continue to do so. You may be satisfied with 20 years of mediocre results. Cool, you keep your head in the sand. I'm f'ing not.

Your rant about hiring good personnel is moot. No one hires losers and everyone with real tenure in the nfl has some history of success. So what's your point? The one constant for ob's tenure is OB.

Luck? I might agree with you on a smaller scale like the bounce of a ball that determines the outcome of a single game. Dynasty's aren't built on luck though. You may think TB was a "lucky pick" but was it? Someone paid a scouting department to make that call. Someone coached him up. Someone fielded a team around him that allowed that success. It wasn't by accident.

Some franchises are just more competent then others. I dont care what the magic 8 ball says.

Never said the entire dynasty was by luck...but without those critical pieces coming by way and materializing largely THRU luck, it is highly unlikely that dynasty materializes into what it is today. So while “someone had to make that call” and “someone had to coach him up” none of that even comes into play for them if Beli says no thanks to Robert Kraft and sticks with the Jets gig. Or if Brady gets cut after being 7th on the depth chart.

.... franchises just being more competent than others....what moves have the Texans made...or not made that makes them more incompetent than others since their inception that every other franchise hasn’t made at 1 time or another? All these franchises including the most successful have made some of the same moves we have at 1 point or another. Some actually panned out, a lot of them didn’t. The hiring of Capers was thought to be a prudent move given his experience both as an NFL HC and his experience with expansion franchises... fail. Enter Kubiak..experienced coach and offensive playcaller brought in to bring the offense forward Which had been lagging the defense at the time.....fail. Prior to them hiring BoB, he was the hottest HC candidate at the time and most other franchises would’ve made the same move we did...looks to be a fail.
So Basically you’re saying that b/c they haven’t won a championship in their baby existence...which show me 1 who had at this juncture they’re incompetent...which, I GUESS, ok. Talk about moot, all the bitching and complaining y’all do is moot as long as y’all keep tuning in at 12, buying merch and showing up to games.

None of that also doesn’t change the fact that those moves they made AT THE TIME were good moves.

Complain..whine. It’s your right as a fan and ain’t nobody telling you you can’t...or maybe you feel that I am..not my intention...but on the flip side of that, don’t criticize other fans who y’all perceive as “koolaid drinkers” b/c they aren’t ready to throw in the towel either. We all see the “ship sinking” believe me.

 

[powda]

Never said the entire dynasty was by luck...but without those critical pieces coming by way and materializing largely THRU luck, it is highly unlikely that dynasty materializes into what it is today. So while “someone had to make that call” and “someone had to coach him up” none of that even comes into play for them if Beli says no thanks to Robert Kraft and sticks with the Jets gig. Or if Brady gets cut after being 7th on the depth chart.

.... franchises just being more competent than others....what moves have the Texans made...or not made that makes them more incompetent than others since their inception that every other franchise hasn’t made at 1 time or another? All these franchises including the most successful have made some of the same moves we have at 1 point or another. Some actually panned out, a lot of them didn’t. The hiring of Capers was thought to be a prudent move given his experience both as an NFL HC and his experience with expansion franchises... fail. Enter Kubiak..experienced coach and offensive playcaller brought in to bring the offense forward Which had been lagging the defense at the time.....fail. Prior to them hiring BoB, he was the hottest HC candidate at the time and most other franchises would’ve made the same move we did...looks to be a fail.
So Basically you’re saying that b/c they haven’t won a championship in their baby existence...which show me 1 who had at this juncture they’re incompetent...which, I GUESS, ok.

None of that changes the fact that those moves they made AT THE TIME were good moves.

Complain..whine. It’s your right as a fan and ain’t nobody telling you you can’t...or maybe you feel that I am..not my intention...but on the flip side of that, don’t criticize other fans who y’all perceive as “koolaid drinkers” b/c they aren’t ready to throw in the towel either. We all see the “ship sinking” believe me.

Well thanks for the response I guess but this is mostly banter really without substance.

You said nothing to dissuade my previous post. To each his own.

 

[Mr teX]

Well thanks for the response I guess but this is mostly banter really without substance.

You said nothing to dissuade my previous post. To each his own.

likewise

 

[powda]

likewise

Really? Cause my previous post cut through everything you said like a hot knife through butter.

 

[Mr teX]

Really? Cause my previous post cut through everything you said like a hot knife through butter.

like hell...this is all I got out of it “ waaahh I wanna a new coach..”

 

[powda]

like hell...this is all I got out of it “ waaahh I wanna a new coach..”

Lol. You made it an issue with others but couldn't follow up your opinion. I wanted some back and forth but I guess not.

Rest assured, I will continue waiting for a sb and b*tch when they do stupid things.

 

[Double Barrel]

Myopic? the only ones being myopic are you guys who have chosen to let the last 6 years under 1 regime color your entire fandom for the foreseeable future.

This isn’t about BoB, b/c as we know the same sentiment was expressed by you and others about Kubiak when he was here. Competent football people were hired in that instance..& in the instance before him with Dom Capers..Both of those guys went on to win SB’s with other teams as OC/DC & Kubiak as a HC. So what happened here then?

If nothing else that should tell you that all of the nonsense your talking about “hiring good football people” is bunk. He’ll, that’s all we’ve done and it hasn’t worked out........as it usually doesn’t for MOST teams.

It’s just the luck of the draw is all. I get the frustration, but if it’s that bad, whydo you even tune in at 12 on Sundays?

"Why do you even tune in at 12 on Sundays?"

Simple: It entertains me.

Talking to you entertains me.

Helping run this forum about the Texans entertains me.

I don't really care if my perspective of entertainment passes your imaginary litmus test. That's irrelevant.

That said, do you know what would be even more entertaining? I'll tell ya': Believing the franchise I follow has an actual clue on how to build a team that can compete well enough to make it to a conference championship game at least once in two decades. Is that really an unrealistic hope or expectation?

And yes, "myopic". Meaning "nearsighted". You are arguing single seasons. I'm a historical-minded fan, looking at long term trends, studying the ways of the championship producing organizations, and analyzing that data against the local team.

And here's the deal: I'm not about "I'm right / you're wrong". We are looking at something from different perspectives, different expectations, different angles. I can appreciate what you bring to the table. I don't need you to agree with me or affirm my opinions.

As far as Kubiak, 2-14 meant he was done. Is that hard to accept? Why does this franchise have to wait until 2-14 to change things? This is beyond "one regime". The reality is the owners are incapable of putting together a front office that can consistently compete with the elite teams in any given year since 2002. [That's actual fact supported by historical data.]

Back to your example with Kubiak. He was obviously a solid coach. Dude won 4 SB rings at multiple levels of coaching. What was different in Denver? Very simple: upper management.

So yeah, it is about hiring competent football people in the end, at all levels. And hold them accountable instead of spewing marketing corporate-speak to justify failure. Instead, they rewarded a coach that holds a record for 4th worst playoff choke in NFL history. Can you possibly see how the optics are perceived by fans?

I tune in because I dig football and I seem unable to not root for my hometown team. The same way I enjoyed the new Star Wars movies, they could have been more enjoyable (to me) with better writing. And it's the same for the Houston Texans.

So keep waving your pom poms at my nonsense, friend. The world needs sunshine pumpers, too.

 

[powda]

"Why do you even tune in at 12 on Sundays?"

Simple: It entertains me.

Talking to you entertains me.

Helping run this forum about the Texans entertains me.

I don't really care if my perspective of entertainment passes your imaginary litmus test. That's irrelevant.

That said, do you know what would be even more entertaining? I'll tell ya': Believing the franchise I follow has an actual clue on how to build a team that can compete well enough to make it to a conference championship game at least once in two decades. Is that really an unrealistic hope or expectation?

And yes, "myopic". Meaning "nearsighted". You are arguing single seasons. I'm a historical-minded fan, looking at long term trends, studying the ways of the championship producing organizations, and analyzing that data against the local team.

And here's the deal: I'm not about "I'm right / you're wrong". We are looking at something from different perspectives, different expectations, different angles. I can appreciate what you bring to the table. I don't need you to agree with me or affirm my opinions.

As far as Kubiak, 2-14 meant he was done. Is that hard to accept? Why does this franchise have to wait until 2-14 to change things? This is beyond "one regime". The reality is the owners are incapable of putting together a front office that can consistently compete with the elite teams in any given year since 2002. [That's actual fact supported by historical data.]

Back to your example with Kubiak. He was obviously a solid coach. Dude won 4 SB rings at multiple levels of coaching. What was different in Denver? Very simple: upper management.

So yeah, it is about hiring competent football people in the end, at all levels. And hold them accountable instead of spewing marketing corporate-speak to justify failure. Instead, they rewarded a coach that holds a record for 4th worst playoff choke in NFL history. Can you possibly see how the optics are perceived by fans?

I tune in because I dig football and I seem unable to not root for my hometown team. The same way I enjoyed the new Star Wars movies, they could have been more enjoyable (to me) with better writing. And it's the same for the Houston Texans.

So keep waving your pom poms at my nonsense, friend. The world needs sunshine pumpers, too.

Love it.

 

[austins23]

I quit on OB last year

Just sayin

I quit on him after the Hoyer-Mallet stuff. It was clear he had no clue at that point.

I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt over the years.

I'm on record as saying that "I think OB can be a good HC if he was just HC." Well, he isn't. A HC has his fingerprints on the entire team. Offense, Defense, and ST's. His/the offense is putrid. His decision makin in game is downright horrible. Adjustments in game, non existent. Halftime adjustments, non existent. What playmaker is on defense? Reid, maybe? The WR group has a chance to be really good, but OB's offense sucks to high heaven.
Does Watson have flaws, yes. Who's job is it to tailor a game plan to avoid those flaws? Who's job is it to get the team ready to play week in and week out? Sure this team will play well for three weeks and then drop a Denver Broncos type game on you. That's coaching, nothing else.

 

[powda]

I'm on record as saying that "I think OB can be a good HC if he was just HC." Well, he isn't. A HC has his fingerprints on the entire team. Offense, Defense, and ST's. His/the offense is putrid. His decision makin in game is downright horrible. Adjustments in game, non existent. Halftime adjustments, non existent. What playmaker is on defense? Reid, maybe? The WR group has a chance to be really good, but OB's offense sucks to high heaven.
Does Watson have flaws, yes. Who's job is it to tailor a game plan to avoid those flaws? Who's job is it to get the team ready to play week in and week out? Sure this team will play well for three weeks and then drop a Denver Broncos type game on you. That's coaching, nothing else.

Preach it. I'm all ears when someone has an opposing opinion. I want someone to change my mind. All I got up thread was fodder. Who has the audacity to blame any fan for being negative after 6 years? Are we watching the same team?

Its past time to take old yeller out back and work that trigger.

 

[powda]

Considering all success and sb championships are just lucky, maybe our resident mod @Lucky can chime in and tell us what he thinks?

 

[KoolAid Sipper]

And here's the deal: I'm not about "I'm right / you're wrong". We are looking at something from different perspectives, different expectations, different angles. I can appreciate what you bring to the table. I don't need you to agree with me or affirm my opinions.

And this is an EPIC reminder of what should take place...

 

[powda]

Sorry everyone. Its probably my fault we haven't won a superbowl. I have consistently walked under ladders and pissed off black cats for the last 20 years. I didn't know winning a superbowl was purely luck.

I'll try to do better in the future.

 

[ColeThornton]

Sorry everyone. Its probably my fault we haven't won a superbowl. I have consistently walked under ladders and pissed off black cats for the last 20 years. I didn't know winning a superbowl was purely luck.

I'll try to do better in the future.

"The more I practice, the luckier I get." Ben Hogan

 

[Earl34]

So who was that talking about Jay Gruden’s offense was looking better and more explosive....Well right now on Thursday night football, they’re offense is looking real explosive......as in explosive diarrhea against an 0-2 Dolphins squad.

That's funny. I was the person who mentioned Gruden. My point being, regardless of competition, he went into Jacksonville and has an offense producing 1st downs, his QB has a 101 QB rating and leads the NFL in yardage and the Jags offense actually looks like an NFL offense. They had a bad game. It happens. It still doesn't diminish his impact on that offense.

 

[76Texan]

That's funny. I was the person who mentioned Gruden. My point being, regardless of competition, he went into Jacksonville and has an offense producing 1st downs, his QB has a 101 QB rating and leads the NFL in yardage and the Jags offense actually looks like an NFL offense. They had a bad game. It happens. It still doesn't diminish his impact on that offense.

OB is on the 2nd, 3rd, 7th year whatever of the rebuilt.

Gruden gets 2 games.

 

[thunderkyss]

Look back at JJ Watt's career.
There were games that he absolutely kicked ass, but his team still had a bad game defensively.

Good”ish” point. But that really speak to impact plays. In the years Jj has been a shadow of himself, he might have a “good” game but the defense have a “bad” game. As it was basically like he wasn’t really there.

Reader might have had a “good” game, but they ran for 200 yards, not with trick or gimmick plays. They didn’t run “away” from the guy in the middle of the line.

On the plays that mattered, it was like Dj wasn’t even there. & since there are more of them than not, he got his as handed to him.

Regardless what the stats say, regardless what your film study says. Two hundred yards on the ground, where was Dj?

 

[amazing80]

like hell...this is all I got out of it “ waaahh I wanna a new coach..”

Totally off topic and feel free not to answer, but what do you do for a living?

 

[JB]

"Why do you even tune in at 12 on Sundays?"

Simple: It entertains me.

Talking to you entertains me.

Helping run this forum about the Texans entertains me.

I don't really care if my perspective of entertainment passes your imaginary litmus test. That's irrelevant.

That said, do you know what would be even more entertaining? I'll tell ya': Believing the franchise I follow has an actual clue on how to build a team that can compete well enough to make it to a conference championship game at least once in two decades. Is that really an unrealistic hope or expectation?

And yes, "myopic". Meaning "nearsighted". You are arguing single seasons. I'm a historical-minded fan, looking at long term trends, studying the ways of the championship producing organizations, and analyzing that data against the local team.

And here's the deal: I'm not about "I'm right / you're wrong". We are looking at something from different perspectives, different expectations, different angles. I can appreciate what you bring to the table. I don't need you to agree with me or affirm my opinions.

As far as Kubiak, 2-14 meant he was done. Is that hard to accept? Why does this franchise have to wait until 2-14 to change things? This is beyond "one regime". The reality is the owners are incapable of putting together a front office that can consistently compete with the elite teams in any given year since 2002. [That's actual fact supported by historical data.]

Back to your example with Kubiak. He was obviously a solid coach. Dude won 4 SB rings at multiple levels of coaching. What was different in Denver? Very simple: upper management.

So yeah, it is about hiring competent football people in the end, at all levels. And hold them accountable instead of spewing marketing corporate-speak to justify failure. Instead, they rewarded a coach that holds a record for 4th worst playoff choke in NFL history. Can you possibly see how the optics are perceived by fans?

I tune in because I dig football and I seem unable to not root for my hometown team. The same way I enjoyed the new Star Wars movies, they could have been more enjoyable (to me) with better writing. And it's the same for the Houston Texans.

So keep waving your pom poms at my nonsense, friend. The world needs sunshine pumpers, too.

I wish you could spend half a day (or at least 1 game) with Janice & Cal

 

[thunderkyss]

That said, do you know what would be even more entertaining? I'll tell ya': Believing the franchise I follow has an actual clue on how to build a team that can compete well enough to make it to a conference championship game at least once in two decades.

No offense, but... surely you’re not just figuring this out right? That they don’t.

You’ve known for years. Maybe lying to yourself for the last two years. Maybe more, but you knew.

& you’re still here. Just like all our other knowledgeable members who soldier on.

Why?

I’m really asking, because I’m still here too &. I know Bo’b will be here for a couple more at least. So I need to know, why am I here? Why does steelbtexan seem like the only sane mf here?

It’s been Bizarro world since Bo’b got here. Every time something happens (& there have been a lot of them) Bo’b steps on his dck & you’re like, “Cal is going to do something now, he has to.” O’Brien gets a raise, or an extension, or a promotion...

& you can’t explain it. Makes no sense. But you show up. Try to move forward. That part of you that knows better, you stuff him in the closet & then one day, like today, you’re asking yourself, “how did I get here?”

 

[mws]

I love football & I don't know why but I have to pull for my home team.

My brother is a huge NASCAR fan. We had a conversation once where he tried to convince me to give up on Houston NFL teams & move over to racing. His reasoning was since there is not really a home team I could just pick one of the best drivers. That way I could always pull for a winner.

It's a shame that never really worked for me.

 

[76Texan]

Good”ish” point. But that really speak to impact plays. In the years Jj has been a shadow of himself, he might have a “good” game but the defense have a “bad” game. As it was basically like he wasn’t really there.

Reader might have had a “good” game, but they ran for 200 yards, not with trick or gimmick plays. They didn’t run “away” from the guy in the middle of the line.

On the plays that mattered, it was like Dj wasn’t even there. & since there are more of them than not, he got his as handed to him.

Regardless what the stats say, regardless what your film study says. Two hundred yards on the ground, where was Dj?

It doesn't matter how big a NT is, he has zero impact on a cutback in a wide zone ZBS scheme.
How do you think all those teams won all those SB games, from Elway

Good”ish” point. But that really speak to impact plays. In the years Jj has been a shadow of himself, he might have a “good” game but the defense have a “bad” game. As it was basically like he wasn’t really there.

Reader might have had a “good” game, but they ran for 200 yards, not with trick or gimmick plays. They didn’t run “away” from the guy in the middle of the line.

On the plays that mattered, it was like Dj wasn’t even there. & since there are more of them than not, he got his as handed to him.

Regardless what the stats say, regardless what your film study says. Two hundred yards on the ground, where was Dj?

If you're using stats, it's really not worth an answer.

Most of the time, a NT/DT impacts only one gap, sometimes two, and once in a long while 3.

There was zero sucessful run on either side of Reader's gap.
The more successful run (7 yards or longer were all well away from him).

Especially when the opponents run a wide zone scheme from the ZBS.
Yes, they were running away from him.

That's why the ZBS has been so succesful, ever since the time of Elway winning the two SBs.
The Seahawks was also succesful with Lynch, the Texans with Foster.
And most recently, the Vikings with Cooks, the Titans with Henry and on and on.

 

[thunderkyss]

Most of the time, a NT/DT impacts only one gap, sometimes two, and once in a long while 3.

There was zero sucessful run on either side of Reader's gap.
The more successful run (7 yards or longer were all well away from him).

So you agree.. Dj had no impact on that game.

 

[76Texan]

So you agree.. Dj had no impact on that game.

He has no impact on the FINAL SCORE of the game.
He has impact on the defense, making it a less worse unit on the day.

 

[thunderkyss]

He has no impact on the FINAL SCORE of the game.
He has impact on the defense, making it a less worse unit on the day.

So you're saying without Dj they would have gave up 270 yards & not 215?

But because Dj was balling like a bandit, they only gave up 215 yards on the ground?

I see where you're coming from now. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[76Texan]

So you're saying without Dj they would have gave up 270 yards & not 215?

But because Dj was balling like a bandit, they only gave up 215 yards on the ground?

I see where you're coming from now. Thanks for clearing that up.

Without him, the Browns would have scored on that goal line, making the game out of reach.

They might scored on the other drive, too, without that Intentional Grounding Penalty.

With him, they had another chance for the offense to score and maybe win the game.

Without him, it's game over before the lady sings (like what's been hapenning to the Texans).

With him, fans can still watch the game until the end instead of tuning out early.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[TheKDog]

Bill Obrien needs to be the defensive coordinator

 

[Mangler]

Bill Obrien needs to be the defensive coordinator

Yeah, for Penn State.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Soo.. I guess I'm not missing anything huh?? Man I picked the perfect time to quit watching sports.. I actually enjoy my Sundays