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I quoted you with my reply in the Tunsil thread for further discussion.Then stay in Miami. Now they have absolutely zero leverage.
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I quoted you with my reply in the Tunsil thread for further discussion.Then stay in Miami. Now they have absolutely zero leverage.
A step in the right direction.
thought I would put you two together to discuss..someone (not just you, Dr.) help me understand why this is good news
After the draft I suspect Caserio will be named GM and he will want to bring in his own cap guy.Just realized Olsen was not only the VP of Football Administration, but also the interim GM. Could it be that a GM hiring is imminent? Cause I pray so..
I'm glad things are changing down on Kirby after 17 yrs.The theory is that BOB is consolidating power by removing voices that are not in lock-step agreement with his... and also voices that have respect/carry weight with CAL and others that matter within and around the organization... Hopefully, that isn't what is happening, but the evidence is mounting.
FIFYGreat. Another new twist to that GREAT trade
or put another way. . . .
Wow, it's almost as if talent matters and you shouldn't trade it away!or put another way. . . .
2014: 76.1 (13th) - Healthy/beast JJ............. no healthy Clowney
2015: 85.1 (4th) - Healthy/beast JJ............. barely healthy Clowney
2016: 81.0 (6th) - No healthy JJ.................Reasonably Healthy Clowney (14 games)
2017: 76.8 (20th)* - No healthy JJ.................Fully Healthy Clowney
2018: 90.2 (2nd) - Healthy JJ and Clowney
2019: 64.4 (24th) - No Healthy JJ or Clowney on roster
But, but its coaching!!! As you can see, our defense largely went as the health of JJ and to a smaller extent Clowney went.
First of all, just bringing information I hear like we all do. What you do with it from that point is on you.Lol..you guys...So Granato didn't have a shred of anything from his "sources" about Olsen or the Crennel/Weaver thing coming down the pipe before they actually happened.....But now you guys just blindly believe anything he or any Houston sports media personality speculates about why these things happened after they're announced?
So question, when have any of these dudes EVER gotten it right when it comes to things that go on inside the Texans FO? Doesn't matter who it is... McClain, Granato, Zeirlein..Lopez. These guys are constantly firing off things in the dark from thier "sources" only to be proven wrong and/or they're late as hell. The whole Crennel thing today, I saw that on NFL.com damn near an hour before Pendergast & Payne "broke" it on the radio...& they're supposed to be the official radio station of the houston texans. I mean they are literally worthless as far as beat guys for things going on inside the FO.
Fair enough.First of all, just bringing information I hear like we all do. What you do with it from that point is on you.
We’re all aware of “sources” and taking it with a grain of salt. So no need for the ridicule. I know that’s pretty much what this board has become now, but still. Some people still actually knock thoughts around without it.
Secondly, FWIW, Granato, who I don’t particularly care much for BTW, has been getting it right here lately. He had the Weaver promotion yesterday before anyone else. Not saying that when he speaks count it as gospel. Again, it’s on you to take that information and do with it what you will.
Whether it’s true or not, it’s certainly plausible. If true then OB is a power hungry dictator who wants no differing POV in his ranks. No checks and balances. And watching how things have developed from a fans perspective for the last 6 years, it’d be easy for me to put money on that.
If not true, then it’s just OB telling us how everything is so aligned, then getting rid of everybody.
Granato broke the JD Clowney trade weeks before it went down. Remember that some people just go after the low hanging fruit. Where there is smoke .. there is fire.First of all, just bringing information I hear like we all do. What you do with it from that point is on you.
We’re all aware of “sources” and taking it with a grain of salt. So no need for the ridicule. I know that’s pretty much what this board has become now, but still. Some people still actually knock thoughts around without it.
Secondly, FWIW, Granato, who I don’t particularly care much for BTW, has been getting it right here lately. He had the Weaver promotion yesterday before anyone else. Not saying that when he speaks count it as gospel. Again, it’s on you to take that information and do with it what you will.
Whether it’s true or not, it’s certainly plausible. If true then OB is a power hungry dictator who wants no differing POV in his ranks. No checks and balances. And watching how things have developed from a fans perspective for the last 6 years, it’d be easy for me to put money on that.
If not true, then it’s just OB telling us how everything is so aligned, then getting rid of everybody.
O'Brien is the prime living example of the dysfunction.Blame OB for a weak system not suited to Watson, blame OB for not giving up the playing calling, blame OB for bad clock and flag management and damn sure blame him for Devlin still being here. All of these things are legitimate complaints and perhaps should be enough to justify firing him, but to blame him for the Texans being dysfunctional is asinine.
That doesn't even make sense.O'Brien is the prime living example of the dysfunction.
It is a theory. You are correct that none of us know with certainty what exactly is behind these personnel changes. However, the theory is not illogical.No it isn't, nobody here has any idea why these people were fired. There has never been an official, or really even unofficial, reason Gaine was fired and there has been no reason that Olsen was fired. OB has just been the last one standing and has been put in those positions so people are letting their personal bias decide the reasons. Let me ask you has there been anything about OB getting a raise or any extra compensation? If not why would he want the extra work? Everyone was saying that Gaine was just a yes man, until he was fired then the narrative changed, so if was a yes man why bother to have him fired? OB doesn't need someone to blame because if he got EXTENDTED after going 4-12 then he sure wasn't getting fired after last season's record and damn sure not after this season.
I hope so. It will be a simple test to see if you are correct... Anyone with half of a brain and with "the juice" to do it, would clearly take some gameday coaching responsibilities off of Bob's plate- either hiring a legitimate OC or bringing in an Asst. Head Coach or an assistant coach with experience who can aid Bob in things like clock management, etc... Let's see what happens.I'm glad things are changing down on Kirby after 17 yrs.
Easterby is the guy with the juice to make these changes like Olsen. Not BOB
A full season after the fact? That's not OB's styleSo Granato is reporting a source saying that Olsen was against getting Tunsil without getting a deal done first, OB said no. Olsen gone.
Yeah it does conflict with the teapot hothead we have been told OB is.A full season after the fact? That's not OB's style
Absolutely. We've got a guy here who's a master of that.But lots of things are "plausible" by definition & there's no skill in throwing **** on the wall & seeing what sticks.
Whose to say what's real with this organization? They say one thing and do another. We're all aligned...uh, no we're not. We'll fire the GM then make 14 trades and give away players and picks all at the end of camp where it's like starting camp all over.But even if it were 100% true, it still doesn't at all mean what you're asserting. Everyone's under the impression these moves are happening at the behest of BoB & his supposed "power hungry" ego. They in fact could be happening at the behest of Cal.
If you want to be real, it makes more sense that Cal is the one pulling all these strings.....but it just makes for "good radio" to go with the angle about BoB b/c that's where the fans are at with it.
He waited the whole off-season to get rid of Clowney. And then did it for nothing. Hell, maybe Olsen was against that too. But he does have a million other things to do. Maybe he's just now getting around to it.A full season after the fact? That's not OB's style
Honestly, we've been saying this since Capers/CasserlyThis org has become a dumpster fire. Way to go Cal/OB.
Not the same, you know it and it demeans you to suggest it isHe waited the whole off-season to get rid of Clowney. And then did it for nothing. Hell, maybe Olsen was against that too. But he does have a million other things to do. Maybe he's just now getting around to it.
You just here to nit pick with everybody?Not the same, you know it and it demeans you to suggest it is
Wouldn’t it be awesome if Cal and Reverend Easterby hire Caserio, and he end up being a no bullsh1t type GM and shows O’Brien the door after his inevitable brain farts cost us a game or two? I pray the guy has a backbone and the BS ends upon his arrival!So assuming Caserio does come when his contract expires does he have final say on personnel or does he answer to O’Brien ?
Just my opinion but I think the head coach should have final say on the players.So assuming Caserio does come when his contract expires does he have final say on personnel or does he answer to O’Brien ?
At this point you are just making things up to fit your narrative. This whole “OB got rid of Gaine” thing not only has no evidence but it doesn’t even make logical sense.You just here to nit pick with everybody?
You suggested it's not his style to wait. I pointed out where he did wait. Not my fault the goal posts were moved.
But it also took him over a year to get rid of Gaine, so there's that. But maybe that's not the same either. I guess somebody's going to have to point out the ground rules.
At this point you are just making things up to fit your narrative. This whole “OB got rid of Gaine” thing not only has no evidence but it doesn’t even make logical sense.
Even the BS about Clowney doesn’t fit at all with what is actually known as fact. Clowney wanted paid like a top 5 DE when he wasn’t worth close to that. By the way, those “nothing” players we got for Clowney had just as much impact on our season as Clowney did for Seattle. Well minus the dirty hit that made him public enemy number 1 in Philly.
Elite: does elite mean good for a penalty or two every single game?Because of his elite status, Tunsil (and his agent) was never going to agree to a new contract before the salary cap for the new CBA was established.
And what impact did Clowney have? 3 sacks and 1 interception, not even as good as he had playing for us. Yeah that’s a guy I’m going to pay top dollar to. Meanwhile Martin has 3.5 sacks. Mingo didn’t have a good year but then he only played in 5 games. So yeah Clowney showed what he has been showing since he was drafted, a lazy player getting by solely on his natural ability who isn’t worth near the money he thinks he is.******* hilarious!! If you truly think that the guys we got for Clowney had just as much impact, well, who's making things up now?
Not me.Honestly, we've been saying this since Capers/Casserly
No..........it means in almost 915 snaps, he was responsible for only 18 pressures, 15 hurries and 3 sacks from Watson's blindside.......a sign that he will be a bulwark for Watson and the Texans for years to come.Elite: does elite mean good for a penalty or two every single game?
And what impact did Clowney have? 3 sacks and 1 interception, not even as good as he had playing for us. Yeah that’s a guy I’m going to pay top dollar to. Meanwhile Martin has 3.5 sacks. Mingo didn’t have a good year but then he only played in 5 games. So yeah Clowney showed what he has been showing since he was drafted, a lazy player getting by solely on his natural ability who isn’t worth near the money he thinks he is.
These facts seem to be screwing up a good narrative around these parts.No..........it means in almost 915 snaps, he was responsible for only 18 pressures, 15 hurries and 3 sacks from Watson's blindside.......a sign that he will be a bulwark for Watson and the Texans for years to come.
Did he always thrive?Clowney always thrived in RAC system. What RAC had doing is totally different than what Seattle had him doing.
His production in Seattle is pretty much on par with what he did here. Still, I agree with maverick that he is lazy and relies solely on his natural ability. He had overblown hype when he was drafted, and his injuries in his first 2 seasons set him back even further, which I think made him lazier.Clowney always thrived in RAC system. What RAC had doing is totally different than what Seattle had him doing.
Says the man whose credibility is in questionDid he always thrive?
More excuses
Who is this man that lacks credibility?Says the man whose credibility is in question
You’re both missing the point. And people always talking about how lazy someone is. That man worked his butt off to get back on the field and hasn’t sustained another major injury.His production in Seattle is pretty much on par with what he did here. Still, I agree with maverick that he is lazy and relies solely on his natural ability. He had overblown hype when he was drafted, and his injuries in his first 2 seasons set him back even further, which I think made him lazier.
I would like proof of this. Could just be lucky.You’re both missing the point. And people always talking about how lazy someone is. That man worked his butt off to get back on the field and hasn’t sustained another major injury.
I never said a thing about his work ethic, he worked very hard to make it back from a devastating knee injury. I'm asking why the production isn't there and why isn't it. Did he learn any new pass rush techniques sine he's been in the NFL or is this merely a talent issue?You’re both missing the point. And people always talking about how lazy someone is. That man worked his butt off to get back on the field and hasn’t sustained another major injury.
BTW I was not talking to you. That was directed at Maverick and RGV82. That was not a question on their behalf. They’re saying the man is lazy which is completely false. He’s a power pass rusher who is very stout against the run.I never said a thing about his work ethic, he worked very hard to make it back from a devastating knee injury. I'm asking why the production isn't there and why isn't it. Did he learn any new pass rush techniques sine he's been in the NFL or is this merely a talent issue?
BTW, I was a big Clowney guy from the draft onward and didn't want to see him traded last offseason. But these questions are valid. It will be interesting to see what he gets paid this offseason. I bet it wont be the Mack $$$$ that he wanted from the Texans.
Go asked his former teammates and coaches.I would like proof of this. Could just be lucky.
You spoke to them? How do you know what they would tell me?Go asked his former teammates and coaches.
if you do research on the microfracture procedure you would find that if players DONT push and apply themselves that the likelihood of reinjury or never returning to a similar player are quite high. You could use the search to find some of the old posts and discussions.I would like proof of this. Could just be lucky.
Really because most rumors and reports from "sources" said that he actually wasn't really liked in the locker room and JJ in particular felt he was lazy and didn't like him.Go asked his former teammates and coaches.
You spoke to them? How do you know what they would tell me?
Really because most rumors and reports from "sources" said that he actually wasn't really liked in the locker room and JJ in particular felt he was lazy and didn't like him.
But you know what, lets just stick to facts and here are the facts.
Jadeveon Clowney Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Jadeveon Clowney: Pos: DE, Career: 83 G, 4 TD, 3xProBowl, Texans/Seahawks/.. 2014-2020, born SC 1993www.pro-football-reference.com
Noticed how his numbers were pretty much the same every year, even his vaulted "Break out year" in 17 are barely any higher and that's with JJ out so Clowney was the main man on defense. That's a player that has either plateaued or is not trying to improve. I say its he's not trying because he is still using that same bull rush move without trying anything else. Either way though it shows he's not worth any where near the money he wanted.
That's all you have to go on. At least I admitted it was just rumors as compared to saying something definitive or the "ask his coaches" something which you know none of us have anyway of doing. By the way you didn't address the facts I did post, why have his numbers never improved?Rumors wow. Ok dude.
I see your point and that would be fine EXCEPT he wants paid like those guys that do put in the extra work. Also just trying to improve your technique and trying something other than your go to bull rush move that's not asking a guy to go above and beyond that just asking him to keep trying improve as the game changing. Just like we want Watson to keep learning and developing its not to much to want him to improve to and so far he hasn't shown that he's tryingHe's not lazy in the sense we like to think of it. I truly believe dude does works his butt off & he does play & practice hard when he's out there. His "lazy" is in how we percieve he should approach his ridiculous high potential as an elite athlete...which is grinding away doing extra this or that to reach your highest potential..but him being content where he is.....that doesn't make him lazy b/c even where he's at he's still pretty damn good. Some folks are just perfectly happy where they're at.