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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Knowing what we know or don’t know at this point, if you were the GM of a team that is SB ready right now and I’ll even concede you could use another edge rusher, would you trade for Clowney right now and give him a 100+ million extension? Don’t forget you are SB ready and have good players with their own extension issues. I wouldn’t. The knee, money and prior production for that money is a perfect storm.
 
Uncle Rico said:
JD said he was going to be ready week 1 all along though. Even moved it up to week 3 preseason at one time until something happened. If he really felt his knee was an issue why even risk it for the franchise tag? He would sit until he got the big deal. Wasn’t the case here.

I want to know what that “something” was.
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What that something is, is that the Texans team Dr.'s appear to agree with CnD that Clowney's knee is going to blow up again within the next 2-3 yrs.
 
some of you guys would better serve the discussion if you could keep up with the topics. Microfracture and ALL THE PLAYERS, past and present who have been successful after the procedure have been discussed ad nauseum. I've posted medical reports describing the procedure and what is to be expected. "Flameouts" typically occur withing the first few years after the procedure due to improper healing etc... JD IS GOING ON YEAR 5 AFTER THE PROCEDURE!!! Clowney is coming off of his 3rd straight pro bowl. He has missed one game in 3 years. You guys are pissing into the wind just to have something to argue about. His knee isnt stopping Miami, Isnt stopping Philly, Isnt stopping Seattle. Nope. Those teams smell blood in the water due to the pathetic excuse for management and will poach an elite edge guy for next to nothing.

NO TEAM IS BEING SCARED AWAY BECAUSE OF JD'S HEALTH!! Once you can accept that you can move on to the financial debate and that will hold more water.
 
Uncle Rico said:
some of you guys would better serve the discussion if you could keep up with the topics. Microfracture and ALL THE PLAYERS, past and present who have been successful after the procedure have been discussed ad nauseum. I've posted medical reports describing the procedure and what is to be expected. "Flameouts" typically occur withing the first few years after the procedure due to improper healing etc... JD IS GOING ON YEAR 5 AFTER THE PROCEDURE!!! Clowney is coming off of his 3rd straight pro bowl. He has missed one game in 3 years. You guys are pissing into the wind just to have something to argue about. His knee isnt stopping Miami, Isnt stopping Philly, Isnt stopping Seattle. Nope. Those teams smell blood in the water due to the pathetic excuse for management and will poach an elite edge guy for next to nothing.

NO TEAM IS BEING SCARED AWAY BECAUSE OF JD'S HEALTH!! Once you can accept that you can move on to the financial debate and that will hold more water.
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I'm just telling you,

Feel free to disagree.

Plus, when you figure in the extensions that will be coming for Watson/Watt they probably feel that too much of the cap would be tied up in 4 players. Watson/Clowney/Watt/Watson and unlike past regimes it's obvious that the Texans org values cap flexibility.

With that said, given their age and injury history I would choose to re-sign Clowney over Watt, but we know that ain't gonna happen. I would've traded Clowney last offseason like I suggested upthread if the Texans had no interest in winning this yr since they chose not to really participate in FA again, so they could've gotten maximum value in trade for Clowney. Gaine chose not to do this and they are where they are.

Clusterfvck of an org.
 
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steelbtexan said:
I'm just telling you,

Feel free to disagree.

Plus, when you figure in the extensions that will be coming for Watson/Watt they probably feel that too much of the cap would be tied up in 4 players. Watson/Clowney/Watt/Watson and unlike past regimes it's obvious that the Texans org values cap flexibility.

With that said, given their age and injury history I would choose to re-sign Clowney over Watt.
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Based on just those two things I would agree, however, given their production on the field and overall benefit to the team though Watt is head and shoulders above Clowney. Clowney is great against the run game, big whoop, this is a QB and passing league and you need a defense that can stop the air game way more than one that can stop the run game. We saw last year what being great against the run game gets you. A top 5, 10, whatever defense that is a paper tiger when a quality QB steps on the field. Watt forces 2-3 guys just to block him and still gets to QB while Clowney has yet to produce a double digit season.

Clowney is great at what he does but what he does just isn't as valuable in the modern NFL. I think that's a big part of the reason that the Texans and other teams aren't breaking out the check book for him.
 
Dejaview said:
Knowing what we know or don’t know at this point, if you were the GM of a team that is SB ready right now and I’ll even concede you could use another edge rusher, would you trade for Clowney right now and give him a 100+ million extension? Don’t forget you are SB ready and have good players with their own extension issues. I wouldn’t. The knee, money and prior production for that money is a perfect storm.
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If I had a SB ready team I would and I would front load the 1st 2 yrs of the contract so when his knee blows up cap space would still be available. Clowney is a rare athlete who despite lack of bend pass rushing is still a bad a**. If he was allowed to free lance like Watt I'm betting he would have way over 10 sacks.
 
Uncle Rico said:
some of you guys would better serve the discussion if you could keep up with the topics. Microfracture and ALL THE PLAYERS, past and present who have been successful after the procedure have been discussed ad nauseum. I've posted medical reports describing the procedure and what is to be expected. "Flameouts" typically occur withing the first few years after the procedure due to improper healing etc... JD IS GOING ON YEAR 5 AFTER THE PROCEDURE!!! Clowney is coming off of his 3rd straight pro bowl. He has missed one game in 3 years. You guys are pissing into the wind just to have something to argue about. His knee isnt stopping Miami, Isnt stopping Philly, Isnt stopping Seattle. Nope. Those teams smell blood in the water due to the pathetic excuse for management and will poach an elite edge guy for next to nothing.

NO TEAM IS BEING SCARED AWAY BECAUSE OF JD'S HEALTH!! Once you can accept that you can move on to the financial debate and that will hold more water.
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Financial debate doesn’t stand on its own mountain. $=health, production. And concerns over a procedure that is not common for athletes, perhaps even a guy that seems to find means to narrow his options.
 
steelbtexan said:
If I had a SB ready team I would and I would front load the 1st 2 yrs of the contract so when his knee blows up cap space would still be available. Clowney is a rare athlete who despite lack of bend pass rushing is still a bad a**. If he was allowed to free lance like Watt I'm betting he would have way over 10 sacks.
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If I understand the knee issue, it doesn’t blow up but degenerates because the procedure ultimately weakens the bone or cartilage...I don’t know, maybe to a point that it does blow up. But the unknown has founded great religions and football debates.
 
ATXtexanfan said:
Anyone expecting OB and Devlin to ruin Tunsil when he gets here.
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The Phins aren't giving up Tunsil unless the consideration is substantially greater than Clowney.
How much greater, oh who knows ? How about Clowney, plus Bernard McKinney, and plus our 2020 2nd round pick ?
How bad do the Texans want Tunsil ?
 
Dejaview said:
Guy is a GM nightmare. I’ve looked at that micro fracture process the last few days...for what that is worth not being a doctor, but what seems most important is there simply isn’t much of a track record with athletes and it. Despite this, from what I recall, he opted for this procedure. Certainly didn’t need to go that way. Could say he put himself in this predicament. So goes the problem. Compound that with him wanting an extension for big bucks...what would you do? Just curious? For his situation the franchise tag is the best situation for both sides, imo. I’d give him the DE slot and move on. If he doesn’t sign it hurts him more than us. I’m not getting emotional for a guy that stands to make 17million. There are 31 other teams that could use an end rusher but aren’t biting.
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If you hadn’t run off C&D we could ask him.
 
IDEXAN said:
The Phins aren't giving up Tunsil unless the consideration is substantially greater than Clowney.
How much greater, oh who knows ? How about Clowney, plus Bernard McKinney, and plus our 2020 2nd round pick ?
How bad do the Texans want Tunsil ?
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You’ve lost your mind. Clowney is an elite defender that teams have to game plan around. People are so infatuated with sacks they’re blind to his real value. There are only a handful of guys in the entire league that are on his level. You want to give them and another pro-bowl player and a pick for one decent player?

I’m starting to wonder if you’re BOB.
 
For those who have kept up with everything thus far, what would be the consensus of JD to Miami for Drake, Stills and their 2 second round picks? Drake replaces the injured Miller and Stills is there as insurance for Fuller and Coutee. Since we are not likely to be true contenders this season anyway with no Clowney and with the O-line we have put together would this not be a good result? We would then have 5 picks in the top 100 to try and finish the O-line and to re-tool our aging Defense. Thoughts?
 
Childress79 said:
For those who have kept up with everything thus far, what would be the consensus of JD to Miami for Drake, Stills and their 2 second round picks? Drake replaces the injured Miller and Stills is there as insurance for Fuller and Coutee. Since we are not likely to be true contenders this season anyway with no Clowney and with the O-line we have put together would this not be a good result? We would then have 5 picks in the top 100 to try and finish the O-line and to re-tool our aging Defense. Thoughts?
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better than nothin' ... still would be nice if the morons on kirby could identify talent to begin with and you wouldnt have to trade your elite players to stop the leaks. it will be a cycle of abuse until OBrien gets thrown out on his ass.
 
I don't think Miami will give up their second round picks especially if they want to rebuild.

I do see OB going for Stills since Fuller tends to not last a full season.
 
It makes no sense to trade for Jadeveon Clowney unless you think one pass rusher can put you over the top to win the Super Bowl this year. The Dolphins could trade a pick for him, he helps them win a couple more games so they move down in the draft order, then he signs elsewhere.

— Michael David Smith (@MichaelDavSmith) August 28, 2019


Agree
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, even if they sign him long term. Giving up picks for Jadeveon Clowney makes no sense RE: #Dolphins rebuild. https://t.co/iYnXHZn1Pb

— Evan Silva (@evansilva) August 28, 2019


There is also a reason why the #Texans are so willing to part with him. Not a guy you build around. And probably not a guy you sign to a massive long-term deal.

— Evan Silva (@evansilva) August 28, 2019
 
Childress79 said:
For those who have kept up with everything thus far, what would be the consensus of JD to Miami for Drake, Stills and their 2 second round picks? Drake replaces the injured Miller and Stills is there as insurance for Fuller and Coutee. Since we are not likely to be true contenders this season anyway with no Clowney and with the O-line we have put together would this not be a good result? We would then have 5 picks in the top 100 to try and finish the O-line and to re-tool our aging Defense. Thoughts?
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I think that's a good haul......but Stills ain't coming here b/c he's a "kneeler" & b/c i don't see where he fits in ultimately so it would have to be another player. But honestly, fans and people in general around here are prisoners of the moment & get caught up with names. So anything less than an all-pro LT and 5 1st round draft picks for Clowney is a bad "value" trade & BoB screwed the pooch.
 
I really hope that I'm wrong about this, but I'm getting the impression that this is now a principle thing with BOB to get rid of JD. It's the Malcolm Butler on the bench in the SB message to the team that no one is bigger than the team. So we'll get peanuts for him to prove the point.
 
Not sure how healthy it is to have a coach that needs to be restrained from going after players on occasion being in charge of being able to trade that player. He might have traded TB12 if he had the ability.
 
Here is what I don't understand and maybe someone can clear this up. I'm hearing two main talking points A) Clowney is an amazing player that other teams would love to have and B) BoB hates Clowney and just wants him gone and doesn't care about what we get for him. Well if those two things are the case then why is he still here? Its not because of the "He hasn't signed the tag" because that's a fairly recent development and if BoB had as much power as people say and wants him gone as badly as people say they could have moved him long before this. So in my mind since Clowney is still here then either the Texans did want to keep him and have been trying to work a deal out or if BoB would have taken a wooden nickel for him then that means the rest of the NFL doesn't think he's worth a wooden nickel.
 
maverick512000 said:
Here is what I don't understand and maybe someone can clear this up. I'm hearing two main talking points A) Clowney is an amazing player that other teams would love to have and B) BoB hates Clowney and just wants him gone and doesn't care about what we get for him. Well if those two things are the case then why is he still here? Its not because of the "He hasn't signed the tag" because that's a fairly recent development and if BoB had as much power as people say and wants him gone as badly as people say they could have moved him long before this. So in my mind since Clowney is still here then either the Texans did want to keep him and have been trying to work a deal out or if BoB would have taken a wooden nickel for him then that means the rest of the NFL doesn't think he's worth a wooden nickel.
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Makes too much sense man. What we know...or at least has heavily been rumored is that he was offered an extension by the FO...Payne & Pendergast on with McClain said as much this morning. Don't know how much, but he was offered one.

The other end of this is what you're talking about. We know of Miami & a few other teams that were rumored to have interest. Where are the other 20 or so teams that would love to have Clowney? I mean afterall, let some here tell it, BoB & co. are dunces. Teams should be falling over themselves to swindle the idiot right?
 
maverick512000 said:
Here is what I don't understand and maybe someone can clear this up. I'm hearing two main talking points A) Clowney is an amazing player that other teams would love to have and B) BoB hates Clowney and just wants him gone and doesn't care about what we get for him. Well if those two things are the case then why is he still here? Its not because of the "He hasn't signed the tag" because that's a fairly recent development and if BoB had as much power as people say and wants him gone as badly as people say they could have moved him long before this. So in my mind since Clowney is still here then either the Texans did want to keep him and have been trying to work a deal out or if BoB would have taken a wooden nickel for him then that means the rest of the NFL doesn't think he's worth a wooden nickel.
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O'Brien will only take a good LT with a long term contract in return. At least that was the plan according to McClain. No one would even give that up for mack.

Now OBrien is willing to trade him for a third.round pick, but clowney doesn't want to go to Miami so he's not signing his tender
 
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TheKDog said:
O'Brien will only take a good LT with a long term contract in return. At least that was the plan according to McClain. No one would even give that up for mack
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I think that's rare, but I could be wrong. Most trades that I've seen are with players that are expecting big contracts in a year or so.
 
mussop said:
You’ve lost your mind. Clowney is an elite defender that teams have to game plan around. People are so infatuated with sacks they’re blind to his real value. There are only a handful of guys in the entire league that are on his level. You want to give them and another pro-bowl player and a pick for one decent player?

I’m starting to wonder if you’re BOB.
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Doesn't matter. Miami said Tunsil is not on The table. They want Clowney & McKinney. But it seems they believe they'll be doing us a favor, or a favor to O'Brien.

From reports, that's the only reason Miami is involved. They're trying to rebuild & have a lot of draft picks to do it with. If they can land Clowney & McKinney for a couple of mid-rounders, they're sitting pretty.

They're not looking to get Clowney to make a Super Bowl run. Especially on the tag.
 
TheKDog said:
O'Brien will only take a good LT with a long term contract in return. At least that was the plan according to McClain. No one would even give that up for mack
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So why then do you & others think some team would/would've been willing to give us this Herschel Walker-esque package for him?.....especially without the assurance that they could sign him to an extension? & this isn't even factoring in the type of money he may want.

Answer: it's b/c no team was willing to even before the 7/15 deadline......& maybe he's finding that out now.
 
Mr teX said:
So why then do you & others think some team would/would've been willing to give us this Herschel Walker-esque package for him?.....especially without the assurance that they could sign him to an extension? & this isn't even factoring in the type of money he may want.

Answer: it's b/c no team was willing to even before the 7/15 deadline......& maybe he's finding that out now.
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I didn't think someone would. Maybe if we traded him before the last year of his rookie contract like Mack was so teams won't have to mess with the tag situation
 
thunderkyss said:
Doesn't matter. Miami said Tunsil is not on The table. They want Clowney & McKinney. But it seems they believe they'll be doing us a favor, or a favor to O'Brien.

From reports, that's the only reason Miami is involved. They're trying to rebuild & have a lot of draft picks to do it with. If they can land Clowney & McKinney for a couple of mid-rounders, they're sitting pretty.

They're not looking to get Clowney to make a Super Bowl run. Especially on the tag.
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Man if Obrien trade both of these players for some scraps. I will be pissed the bleep off. And I bet Crennel would be too. So basically you're going to destroy part of my core defense and for what?
 
TheKDog said:
O'Brien will only take a good LT with a long term contract in return. At least that was the plan according to McClain. No one would even give that up for mack.

Now OBrien is willing to trade him for a third.round pick, but clowney doesn't want to go to Miami so he's not signing his tender
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I surely hope the 3rd round pick is not true. We could let him play this season with us, let him walk after the season, and still get a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2021.
 
thunderkyss said:
Doesn't matter. Miami said Tunsil is not on The table. They want Clowney & McKinney. But it seems they believe they'll be doing us a favor, or a favor to O'Brien.

From reports, that's the only reason Miami is involved. They're trying to rebuild & have a lot of draft picks to do it with. If they can land Clowney & McKinney for a couple of mid-rounders, they're sitting pretty.

They're not looking to get Clowney to make a Super Bowl run. Especially on the tag.
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What sane team manager would trade a dominant defender and a pro bowl defender for a couple of mid round picks? Don’t answer that.
 
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