The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

[noxiousdog]

You keep saying this and it's just as stupid each time. There are only a handful of gifted RBs in the league.

This is true, but the problem is the difference between gifted and average just isn't that much. Le'Veon Bell only averaged 4.0 ypc last year. Granted, he had 2 amazing years (and another amazing one interrupted by injury). So, is he done? RB lifetimes are short.

The Texans rushed for 4.1 ypc last year. Granted, I'm too lazy to filter out Watson, but for the year, Miller was 3.7 and Foreman was 4.2 ypc, behind the gawdawful Texans O-line.

If you can get 2014-2016 Le'Veon, sure. I'll entertain that. How many running backs do amazing for more than three years? Even the gifted ones?

 

[Rich Schmidt]

Tag Clowney the next two years then make up your mind. He may be pissed to resign, or enjoy getting super bowl rings with DW4 running the show. If someone offers crazy deal, listen, needs to be more than a single 1st round pick for me unless very high. Teams miss 50% of the time on even 1st rounders Texans have done better than leage average in the 1st round, now the third, gawd awful

 

[IDEXAN]

Well I grew up on Tony Dorsett & Emmitt Smith. I agree with not overpaying a Lamar Miller like we did. But I'd draft high and pay to get/keep someone special.

Smith was of course an excellent back who was taken as I recall later in the first round, which is certainly not too high for a first rate running back.
Dorset was a very high pick, right, that's stupid money for a back in these days, just like the Giants using the #2 overall on Barkley or the Jags using the #4 overall on Fournett.
These guys are platooned these days or should be and the game is so much more passing oriented than running the ball.
It's all about throwing the ball, protecting the passer, rushing the passer, guarding/covering the pass receivers which means today that after the QB the highest value positions are OT, CB, and edge-rusher.

 

[DocBar]

Smith was of course an excellent back who was taken as I recall later in the first round, which is certainly not too high for a first rate running back.
Dorset was a very high pick, right, that's stupid money for a back in these days, just like the Giants using the #2 overall on Barkley or the Jags using the #4 overall on Fournett.
These guys are platooned these days or should be and the game is so much more passing oriented than running the ball.
It's all about throwing the ball, protecting the passer, rushing the passer, guarding/covering the pass receivers which means today that after the QB the highest value positions are OT, CB, and edge-rusher.

With the rookie wage scale, drafting a running back 1.1 isn't a bad idea, if that's where you have him graded. That second contract can be a bit of a biotch, ala Bell. Do you think the NYGs were stupid to take Barkley at 1.2?

I will wholeheartedly agree that paying a late 20's RBs anywhere in the neighborhood of what Mack and Arnold just signed for is stupid.

 

[Shishkabob]

With the rookie wage scale, drafting a running back 1.1 isn't a bad idea, if that's where you have him graded. That second contract can be a bit of a biotch, ala Bell. Do you think the NYGs were stupid to take Barkley at 1.2?

I will wholeheartedly agree that paying a late 20's RBs anywhere in the neighborhood of what Mack and Arnold just signed for is stupid.

according to the current rb market yea drafting Barkley at 1.2 seems like a mistake. He was instantly the highest paid rb until Gurley signed his extension. To me that is nuts, not necessarily the giants paying him that but more so that that's where the rb market is now.

 

[infantrycak]

according to the current rb market yea drafting Barkley at 1.2 seems like a mistake. He was instantly the highest paid rb until Gurley signed his extension.

Nope. His contract averages $7.7 mil per year. The top 5 paid RBs average $12.1 mil per.

 

[infantrycak]

It's all about throwing the ball, protecting the passer, rushing the passer, guarding/covering the pass receivers which means today that after the QB the highest value positions are OT, CB, and edge-rusher.

Which means a quality RB should tear it up if everything is geared toward stopping the pass.

And this "it's a passing league now" is a bit overblown. What were the Bills when they went to 4 SBs? - a passing team.

Sorry but have to tip a hat to one of the gutsiest RB performances of all time - Emmitt v the Giants. I say it that way because he almost won the game single handed, literally as he blew out his shoulder in the 1st half. 168 yds rushing, 61 receiving, stiff-armed Lawrence Taylor with his busted shoulder to get in field goal range in overtime and win the division. Yeah, you pay that RB.

 

[Max]

Which means a quality RB should tear it up if everything is geared toward stopping the pass.

And this "it's a passing league now" is a bit overblown. What were the Bills when they went to 4 SBs? - a passing team.

Sorry but have to tip a hat to one of the gutsiest RB performances of all time - Emmitt v the Giants. I say it that way because he almost won the game single handed, literally as he blew out his shoulder in the 1st half. 168 yds rushing, 61 receiving, stiff-armed Lawrence Taylor with his busted shoulder to get in field goal range in overtime and win the division. Yeah, you pay that RB.

I would say the Bills were fairly balanced rather than a passing team (lead the NFL in rushing in '91 and '92) but I think that you're saying that offenses haven't tilted more towards the passing game now vs what they were then which I would agree with for the top passing teams back then. The big difference is when you look at averages across the league back then vs now -- average now is throwing for about 3600 yards/season and back then it was about 3000 yards. But teams are also averaging about the same yards running on average now vs back then also -- it's just more of an offensive league now, not just a passing league.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Max, you're right.

Also the rule changes have hindered the defenses.
Back then defenses could get away with vicious hits.

Those same hits today are 15-yard penalties or ejections.

 

[steelbtexan]

It's not meant to be takin literally, you must understand that.
It's hyperbolic and even silly but makes my point which is a team, mainly my team the Texans, shouldn't spend stupid money/cap space on a back.

Agreed,

But it depends on the RB, I would definitely pay top $$$$ for

E. Smith
W. Payton

Why, in addition to being 2 of the best to ever play, they were team leaders. Whether it was playing dominoes or running up small mountains players followed these guys lead.

 

[IDEXAN]

With the rookie wage scale, drafting a running back 1.1 isn't a bad idea, if that's where you have him graded. That second contract can be a bit of a biotch, ala Bell. Do you think the NYGs were stupid to take Barkley at 1.2?

I will wholeheartedly agree that paying a late 20's RBs anywhere in the neighborhood of what Mack and Arnold just signed for is stupid.

But there's a considerable opportunity cost associated with drafting Barkey @ 2 when you could have taken a top-flite edge-rusher in Chubb or corner like Ward.
That's my biggest complaint as those are more highly valued positons in this day-and-age of the NFL.

 

[IDEXAN]

Which means a quality RB should tear it up if everything is geared toward stopping the pass.

And this "it's a passing league now" is a bit overblown. What were the Bills when they went to 4 SBs? - a passing team.

Sorry but have to tip a hat to one of the gutsiest RB performances of all time - Emmitt v the Giants. I say it that way because he almost won the game single handed, literally as he blew out his shoulder in the 1st half. 168 yds rushing, 61 receiving, stiff-armed Lawrence Taylor with his busted shoulder to get in field goal range in overtime and win the division. Yeah, you pay that RB.

The SB Bills glory years were in a different time, a different era, actually a different century.

 

[infantrycak]

The SB Bills glory years were in a different time, a different era, actually a different century.

Same game.

Once again, if D's are set up to defend pass, a special RB will gash them. You can't have it both ways. Emmitt made his yards against D's entirely focused on him. So if the game has changed to pass, someone like him would gash even more.

 

[JB]

But there's a considerable opportunity cost associated with drafting Barkey @ 2 when you could have taken a top-flite edge-rusher in Chubb or corner like Ward.
That's my biggest complaint as those are more highly valued positons in this day-and-age of the NFL.

Barkley improved their team more than Chubb or Ward would have

 

[DocBar]

But there's a considerable opportunity cost associated with drafting Barkey @ 2 when you could have taken a top-flite edge-rusher in Chubb or corner like Ward.
That's my biggest complaint as those are more highly valued positons in this day-and-age of the NFL.

What would you be thinking if the Texans had their 1st round pick and took Barkley with it? The Texans are pretty loaded on the front 7 and you can make an argument that RB is as big of a position of need as CB and Barkley is, imo, clearly the better football player. Put Barkley and DW4 in the same backfield and it would be tough to stop them. Add in DHOP and it almost becomes unfair.

 

[DocBar]

Same game.

Once again, if D's are set up to defend pass, a special RB will gash them. You can't have it both ways. Emmitt made his yards against D's entirely focused on him. So if the game has changed to pass, someone like him would gash even more.

Smith did not make his yards with Ds entirely focused on him. Michael Irving said so.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

Smith was of course an excellent back who was taken as I recall later in the first round, which is certainly not too high for a first rate running back.
Dorset was a very high pick, right, that's stupid money for a back in these days, just like the Giants using the #2 overall on Barkley or the Jags using the #4 overall on Fournett.
These guys are platooned these days or should be and the game is so much more passing oriented than running the ball.
It's all about throwing the ball, protecting the passer, rushing the passer, guarding/covering the pass receivers which means today that after the QB the highest value positions are OT, CB, and edge-rusher.

Until a team has a difference maker at RB and an OL to better exploit his talent. The Cowboys and Prescott just didn't look the same without Elliott on the field for a full season last year. I think Barkley could have the same effect in NY and don't forget what Bell has done for the Steelers.....they may find out what the difference is this year.

Even with pass happy offenses, the running game is crucial for its overall success. When the Oilers ran the Run-N-Shoot Offense their RB's had some fairly decent seasons.....but substitute those RB's with an Earl Campbell in his prime and we're absolutely talking a completely different dynamic.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

Same game.

Once again, if D's are set up to defend pass, a special RB will gash them. You can't have it both ways. Emmitt made his yards against D's entirely focused on him. So if the game has changed to pass, someone like him would gash even more.

Just like Earl Campbell if his best years had been with the Oilers Run-N-Shoot Offense. Who do you defend? If EC got past the box, holy shite.....with that head of steam and nothing but DB's in his way, it might've been worth counting how many DB"s he sent to the IR and TD's he scored in a season.

 

[Shishkabob]

Nope. His contract averages $7.7 mil per year. The top 5 paid RBs average $12.1 mil per.

I think the figure I'm referring to is guarenteed amount, and not potential yearly amount

 

[IDEXAN]

Same game.

Once again, if D's are set up to defend pass, a special RB will gash them. You can't have it both ways. Emmitt made his yards against D's entirely focused on him. So if the game has changed to pass, someone like him would gash even more.

I know you are a big Cowboys fan and therefor you've always had a thing for Smith. Ok see I think he's a very good back but he always kinda reminded me of Mark Ingram.
Now of course Ingram doesn't have all of those pro-bowl & all-pro awards like Smith and he won't be in the HOF like Smith, but to me the biggest difference between Ingram and Smith is that the former didn't play with that tremendoust Dallas offense, especially all of those HOF blockers up front.

 

[IDEXAN]

Barkley improved their team more than Chubb or Ward would have

Hypothetical of course, so we will never know one way or the other ?

 

[IDEXAN]

Same game.

Once again, if D's are set up to defend pass, a special RB will gash them. You can't have it both ways. Emmitt made his yards against D's entirely focused on him. So if the game has changed to pass, someone like him would gash even more.

I know you are a big Cowboys fan and therefor you've always had a thing for Smith. Ok see I think he's a very good back but he always kinda reminded me of Mark Ingram.
Now of course Ingram doesn't have all of those pro-bowl & all-pro awards like Smith and he won't be in the HOF like Smith, but to me the biggest difference between Ingram and Smith is that the former didn't play with that tremendoust Dallas offense, especially all of those HOF blockers up front.

 

[DocBar]

I know you are a big Cowboys fan and therefor you've always had a thing for Smith. Ok see I think he's a very good back but he always kinda reminded me of Mark Ingram.
Now of course Ingram doesn't have all of those pro-bowl & all-pro awards like Smith and he won't be in the HOF like Smith, but to me the biggest difference between Ingram and Smith is that the former didn't play with that tremendoust Dallas offense, especially all of those HOF blockers up front.

Mark Ingram also has played in a pass first offense for most of his career.

 

[PapaL]

Any Clowney news in here?

 

[Shishkabob]

Any Clowney news in here?

nah this is now the emmit smith and saquon barkley hype thread. mods please change the title

 

[Carr Bombed]

I know you are a big Cowboys fan and therefor you've always had a thing for Smith. Ok see I think he's a very good back but he always kinda reminded me of Mark Ingram.
Now of course Ingram doesn't have all of those pro-bowl & all-pro awards like Smith and he won't be in the HOF like Smith, but to me the biggest difference between Ingram and Smith is that the former didn't play with that tremendoust Dallas offense, especially all of those HOF blockers up front.

Huh?

You think the only difference between Mark Ingram and the league's all time rusher is offensive line play? Wow.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

nah this is now the emmit smith and saquon barkley hype thread. mods please change the title

Wow, we drove the train straight off the tracks. Clowney's going to play Sunday which is a good thing.

Now, there's a lot of talent backing up the defensive front seven, so I'm going to be extremely curious to see how good this BU talent plays on Sunday. If it's as good as it looks on paper......it could make Clowney a big asset chip should the team want to stock up on a couple of picks, even with his expiring contract.

If the NYJ defensive front seven look weak, they could be partners in a trade for picks, especially if Clowney has a very good game. Not to mention, they were all in on Mack but got beat out by the Bears. Also, if Bell is still a holdout in Pittsburgh, maybe the Texans could interest the Steelers in a swap of 2019 UFA's. This works for both teams in the interim.

 

[steelbtexan]

I know you are a big Cowboys fan and therefor you've always had a thing for Smith. Ok see I think he's a very good back but he always kinda reminded me of Mark Ingram.
Now of course Ingram doesn't have all of those pro-bowl & all-pro awards like Smith and he won't be in the HOF like Smith, but to me the biggest difference between Ingram and Smith is that the former didn't play with that tremendoust Dallas offense, especially all of those HOF blockers up front.

LOL

Ingram is a very good RB

He couldn't carry Smith's jock.

BTW, Ingram has played behind one of the best OL in the NFL with a HOF.

So I guess there may be some parallels between their careers. One of the biggest differences between the 2 is Smith was one of the toughest football players I've seen play. Ingram not so much, tell me how many games is Ingram going to miss this yr. Another difference between Smith/Ingram.

 

[PapaL]

Texans' Bill O'Brien: Jadeveon Clowney ready to play entire game
https://www.lmtonline.com/sports/te...n-Jadeveon-Clowney-play-Patriots-13206439.php

Texans Pro Bowl outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney had a limited workload during the preseason.

He played in just one preseason game and looked fully recovered from offseason arthroscopic knee surgery.

Now, Texans coach Bill O'Brien has indicated that Clowney is ready to play an entire game Sunday in the season-opener against the New England Patriots.

Clowney deflected one pass and shoved around the Los Angeles Rams' blockers during a preseason game.

Clowney played in every game last season and recorded a career-high 9 1/2 sacks.

In case y'all forgot who he was...

 

[Uncle Rico]

Any Clowney news in here?

Not while he's healthy and tearing it up .. wait til he pulls a muscle or grabs at his knee .. this thread will blow the F up with all the "i told you so's"

 

[Thorn]

Not while he's healthy and tearing it up .. wait til he pulls a muscle or grabs at his knee .. this thread will blow the F up with all the "i told you so's"

All players end up with injuries of some kind, some just more than others. If a player has a rep for being injury prone, he probably deserves it. Very Very few players retire from the NFL injury free, unless they were backups their whole career.

 

[DocBar]

delete

 

[steelbtexan]

Not while he's healthy and tearing it up .. wait til he pulls a muscle or grabs at his knee .. this thread will blow the F up with all the "i told you so's"

Muscle pulls = No

Knee, particularly the microfracture knee = Yes

 

[IDEXAN]

What would you be thinking if the Texans had their 1st round pick and took Barkley with it? The Texans are pretty loaded on the front 7 and you can make an argument that RB is as big of a position of need as CB and Barkley is, imo, clearly the better football player. Put Barkley and DW4 in the same backfield and it would be tough to stop them. Add in DHOP and it almost becomes unfair.

Texans' Bill O'Brien: Jadeveon Clowney ready to play entire game
https://www.lmtonline.com/sports/te...n-Jadeveon-Clowney-play-Patriots-13206439.php



In case y'all forgot who he was...

I expect our defense and Clowney in particular to play well this Sunday in no small part because the Pats are having the same kind of issues with their offensive line
which the Texan are at the tackle positions (both of them).

 

[ObsiWan]

In case y'all forgot who he was...

ummmm.....
wait, wait! I know this one
....Bob Marley..??

 

[Shishkabob]

ummmm.....
wait, wait! I know this one
....Bob Marley..??

I met a guy the other week who looked almost exactly like JD, only if instead of playing football and working out he smoked pot and chilled on the couch all day.

 

[Carr Bombed]

I met a guy the other week who looked almost exactly like JD, only if instead of playing football and working out he smoked pot and chilled on the couch all day.

You sure you didn't run into ol' Ricky W.?

 

[Shishkabob]

You sure you didn't run into ol' Ricky W.?

nah not Ricky William's. no if you saw just this guys head you could confuse him for JD. He had the same height as him, and frame. but instead of being in professional athlete shape, he had a body by cheeto, and bud light going on

 

[Uncle Rico]

https://www.chron.com/sports/texans...eon-Clowney-on-Khalil-Mack-Aaron-13209754.php

Hometown discount? LMAO yea right. Bust their ass JDC! They could have done the right thing last year, even before this year ... now you can break a foot off in their ass! HAHA

"so what we'll just franchise him for 10 years straight" lol

 

[Carr Bombed]

https://www.chron.com/sports/texans...eon-Clowney-on-Khalil-Mack-Aaron-13209754.php

Hometown discount? LMAO yea right. Bust their ass JDC! They could have done the right thing last year, even before this year ... now you can break a foot off in their ass! HAHA

"so what we'll just franchise him for 10 years straight" lol

:kubepalm:

Get off your lame ass hero worship/agenda. Seriously, I'm beginning to think you're related to this guy.

Clowney has zero leverage here and even him and his agent know it, which was the reason why there wasn't a hold out.

 

[ObsiWan]

:kubepalm:
Clowney has zero leverage here and even him and his agent know it, which was the reason why there wasn't a hold out.

you may have a point...
...but I wouldn't let Clowney hit the open mkt. He won't get Aaron Donald/Khalil Mack money but somebody who needs a defensive stud will take a chance and give him a decent contract.

I'm thinking more and more players are looking at that franchise tag as a clear msg from the team; "we don't want you long term so we'll 'rent' you for a year".

 

[infantrycak]

you may have a point...
...but I wouldn't let Clowney hit the open mkt. He won't get Aaron Donald/Khalil Mack money but somebody who needs a defensive stud will take a chance and give him a decent contract.

I'm thinking more and more players are looking at that franchise tag as a clear msg from the team; "we don't want you long term so we'll 'rent' you for a year".

Generally I would agree but in the particular case of Clowney we have a 3 year rental and a prognosis that he will almost certainly be on the downhill during that time. If not already, the idea of long term shouldn't be contemplated.

 

[badboy]

Generally I would agree but in the particular case of Clowney we have a 3 year rental and a prognosis that he will almost certainly be on the downhill during that time. If not already, the idea of long term shouldn't be contemplated.

yes if we get three sorta healthy seasons from Clowney in which we should be training a replacement (Ejiofor?) we should be really good shape. Also, 2019 draft has lots of OLBs/DEs that should be considered strongly. There's a kid that many draftniks haven't heard of with double digits sacks and double digit QB hurries. I have him in 6th for Houston yet I doubt he remains that low if he has a similar 2018. It's not just Clowney either. We all love JJ but he needs to be on field and productive. Texans would be foolish not to have a plan for Watt's last game. A coach should focus on players on rosters who can win now and hopefully next season and even that is too far off. A GM and I'm hopeful Gaines is the guy, builds for future. Is Covington in his last contract year the guy? Another back from injury vet that needs a very good 2018. Heath, Dunn time to be more than backups who get some snaps here and there. They step up are step out. These three are in their prime age wise and all three should have a banner season to lock in some cash in next deal. I'm trying to be calm and realistic but--this could be really good season with hope for even better 2019.

 

[infantrycak]

The Texans have a plan for JJ financially. He's under contract thru 2021. But his dead money is almost zilch, $2 mil if cut after this season and then nada. Keep Clowney on pay as you go for 3 seasons. Be on the lookout for players from now on.

 

[steelbtexan]

you may have a point...
...but I wouldn't let Clowney hit the open mkt. He won't get Aaron Donald/Khalil Mack money but somebody who needs a defensive stud will take a chance and give him a decent contract.

I'm thinking more and more players are looking at that franchise tag as a clear msg from the team; "we don't want you long term so we'll 'rent' you for a year".

McNair/Gaine should look at Clowney as a 3yr rental *Counting this yr

It's the right thing to do for the future of the franchise.

But being a fellow Gamecock alum it probably wont happen.

With that said, maybe BOB/Gaine have McNair's ear, Ricky would've already Reupped Clowney to the tune of 10% less than the Donald/Mack contracts.

 

[badboy]

The Texans have a plan for JJ financially. He's under contract thru 2021. But his dead money is almost zilch, $2 mil if cut after this season and then nada. Keep Clowney on pay as you go for 3 seasons. Be on the lookout for players from now on.

Watt's contract was an amazingly designed contract as is Hopkins with dead dropping to $ 3 m 2020. I'm big fan of Chris Olsen and crossed fingers Gaines is as good identifying and getting players. Another positive may be:

According to Jimmy Kempski of Philly Voice, the Texans have the seventh-youngest roster in the NFL with an average age of 25.6 years old.

If Jackson, Joseph, Henderson, Weeden and Webb are gone the age of roster will drop even more. GM has brought in some young veterans that should improve roster.

 

[ObsiWan]

Generally I would agree but in the particular case of Clowney we have a 3 year rental and a prognosis that he will almost certainly be on the downhill during that time. If not already, the idea of long term shouldn't be contemplated.

Franchise tag guarantees the player gets top-five money, right. Clowney probably won't get better than that on the open mkt but, depending on the flavor of the tag, he can go shop his services. And in the off chance that some team does 'break the bank' for him (hey, it happened with Mario), don't we get a rd one pick...?

Hell, this plan is just crazy enough to work....

 

[infantrycak]

Franchise tag guarantees the player gets top-five money, right.

Exclusive gets average of top 5 this year. Non-exclusive is average of top 5 over the last 5 years. But either will get 120% of the player's prior season if greater.

Clowney is making $12.306 mil this season. He'll be on the 120% rule at $14.767 mil.

And in the off chance that some team does 'break the bank' for him (hey, it happened with Mario), don't we get a rd one pick...?

2 1st round picks.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Exclusive gets average of top 5 this year. Non-exclusive is average of top 5 over the last 5 years. But either will get 120% of the player's prior season if greater.

Clowney is making $12.306 mil this season. He'll be on the 120% rule at $14.767 mil.



2 1st round picks.

I can just see the phones ringing off the hook!!

 

[mussop]

110 pages? I think it’s time for a New New New JaDeveon Clowney thread.