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The Johnny "Football" Manziel NFL thread

Had to quit practicing today due to pain... seen pointing to inside of arm just above the elbow.


Didn't Manziel play a lot of baseball growing up?

Elbow pain at that spot could be due to overuse from throwing. Was he a pitcher?

With the possible identified location of the soreness in the elbow, I would have to say that Manziel is likely dealing with an ulnar collateral ligament (UCL, sometimes also referred to as the medial collateral ligament [MCL]) tear, rather than an elbow tendonitis which results in pain on the outside of the elbow. This is the ligament which is associated with Tommy John surgery.

I have found a very understandable VIDEO [the first 3 minutes explains this injury well] for those interested.

UCL injuries generally arise from throwing mechanic issues which can usually be attributed to overuse with poor mechanics. One important factor that must also be carefully ruled out is a poorly functioning shoulder. (Manziel suffered a throwing shoulder injury in 2013.) Just as the poorly functioning hip is in the mechanics tree of the knee and can lead to knee problems, so can a previously injury poorly functioning shoulder which is in the mechanics tree of the elbow lead to elbow problems as the elbow tries to compensate and do what it is not meant to do.

In 2010, there was a study that thru the NFL Injury Surveillance System identified and reviewed for any UCL injuries of the elbow in quarterbacks from 1994 to 2008. A total of 10 cases of UCL injuries in quarterbacks were identified. Nine cases were treated nonoperatively and the average length of rest/rehab was ~1 month.

Typically, when this approach is taken in professional baseball players, there is a high rate of failure, which then leads to Tommy John surgery. The contrast with football is that with quarterbacks, the number of throws in a game or practice pales in the face of what is expected of baseball pitchers.

Some other very important factors as relate to Manziel:

*He played baseball and football since high school. This means major repetitive elbow throwing stresses throughout the year......not seasonal. Once UCL problems begin, they are usually reccurent and progressive, especially without prolonged rest. And Manziel, after such a terrible rookie year, probably worked on his throwing skills in a very concentrated mode, trying to rehab his reputation as a poor quarterback.

*Once the UCL is injured, a football is larger and heavier than a baseball and places much more stresson the elbow when thrown.

*Lastly, a very important consideration with UCL injuries is that actual physical limitations of the thrower, where he tries to overcome/overcompensate his limitations, can place immense undue stress on the UCL.


Like elbow tendonitis, if UCL tear is indeed his problem, he is likely to follow him throughout his career, with more likelihood than most quarterbacks documented in the past with this problem to eventually progress to need for prolonged periods of rest, and ultimately surgery.
 
Mike Pettine on Johnny Manziel's elbow flare-up: 'We're not anticipating it being a long-term thing'

Nothing like a flare-up of elbow soreness to kill the Johnny Manziel buzz that swept the nation Thursday night after he scrambled and passed his way to a 96-yard touchdown drive at the Bills on ESPN.

After completing a deep ball to Josh Lenz in 11-on-11s on Sunday morning, Manziel came to the sidelines pointing to his elbow -- clad in a compression sleeve -- and talked to the trainers about it. Then, he talked it over with quarterbacks coach Kevin O'Connell. When they consulted coach Mike Pettine, he put an end to Manziel's day about a half-hour early.

Early prognosis is that he'll likely sit out Monday, rest Tuesday on the off day and then revisit it on Wednesday. At this point, his status for the dress rehearsal game Saturday night in Tampa is up in the air.

"Yeah, he started to get a little sore (Saturday),'' said coach Mike Pettine. "So we'll make the decision. We might rest him (Monday) and then he's got an off day coming up. I wouldn't be surprised (Monday) if we shut him down. It just depends how it feels.''

Pettine said the soreness is a recurrence of the camp arm that sidelined Manziel on Aug. 11, the final practice before the preseason opener against the Redskins.

Pettine seemed confident it was just the dog days of camp that are the culprit and not some structural damage. But just to be sure, the Browns will most likely put Manziel through a series of tests, including an MRI.

"Am I concerned?'' Pettine said in his post-practice press conference. "If the trainer tells me I need to be concerned, (that) it's a long-term thing and not just a usage thing, then I'll be concerned.''

Manziel and the other two healthy quarterbacks in camp -- Josh McCown and Thad Lewis -- have been getting more reps than usual ever since Connor Shaw suffered ligament damage and a minor fracture in his right thumb during the Redskins game Aug. 13. He underwent surgery Tuesday to repair the ligament and is out indefinitely. He's been standing on the sidelines watching practice, and talked to Manziel about his elbow soreness after his practice was cut short.

An early recurrence of the same problem, but Pettine confident it's "Just the dog days of of camp arm and not some structural damage"? 2 days rest isn't going to do him any good. He does need an MRI.
 
Browns shutting down quarterback Johnny Manziel because of recurrent elbow soreness
By Tony Grossi | ESPNCleveland.com

That little sore elbow experienced by Johnny Manziel that the Browns were not concerned about? Might be time to get a little concerned.

Manziel’s soreness did not disappear after two days rest and now the Browns probably will shut down their No. 2 quarterback and keep him out of the third preseason game in Tampa on Saturday.

With No. 3 Connor Shaw already lost probably for the season after thumb surgery, the Browns are actively looking to bring in another quarterback to get them through the preseason, coach Mike Pettine said.

An MRI done on Manziel’s elbow showed “no structural damage,” Pettine said, which the team considered a positive. But the coach revealed for the first time that Manziel’s sore elbow “is something he’s been dealing with since high school.”

“I just see it as a minor setback,” Pettine said. “If this was something he’d never experienced before and the MRI showed something, I’d be a lot more concerned. But this being something he’s dealt with before, I’m confident if he’s shut down for just a little bit longer, that it’ll all come back.”

Manziel first experienced a sore elbow and was held out of throwing on Aug. 11. Manziel returned to play in the first and second preseason games.

Near the end of practice on Aug. 23, Manziel pointed to his elbow after a deep throw. He was removed from the practice and did not throw over the next two days.

Originally, Manziel was supposed to practice on Wednesday to prepare for the final season dress rehearsal in Tampa on Saturday. But those plans appear scrapped.

Pettine is still saying he’s not concerned, even though there is now a history of a sore problem going back to high school.

“Because I think he’s managed it,” Pettine said. “He just went a little too far with it. Could he play if he had to? More than likely he could, but why do that in preseason? If this was the regular season, it might be a different story.”

Pettine was asked what he meant that Manziel “went a little too far.”

“I’m not sure whether there was one throw. I doubt it,” Pettine said. “As (offensive coordinator John DeFilippo) talked about, sometimes when a guy drops the elbow and has that three-quarter release, sometimes it’s going to put a little bit more pressure on the elbow than on the shoulder.

“I asked (Manziel) the other day whether he felt he threw more at this camp than a year ago and he said it felt the same. It’s something that just flared up.”

According to numbers compiled by ESPN Cleveland’s Jason Gibbs during training camp practices open to media, Manziel actually has thrown 50 percent fewer passes this summer than a year ago, when he was engaged in an open competition with Brian Hoyer for the starting job.

Gibbs’ final throwing tally this year had Manziel completing 109 of 170 passes in individual, 7-on-7 and team drills. The figures a year ago: 178 completions in 347 passes.

Both tallies do not include preseason games.

“We just want to be cautious and not have it develop into something that would continue to bother him throughout the year,” Pettine said. “His reps will go down, depending on how we construct the roster. Just the volume of throws he’ll get in the season will go down from training camp.

“It’s something where if it’s managed properly managed from a training standpoint, from a strength and conditioning standpoint, he’s aware of it and the coaches are aware of it, as long as there’s nothing structural, we don’t see it as anything that is going to be long term.”

Pettine said that starter Josh McCown and Lewis would split play time in Tampa on Saturday. The Browns have a quick turnaround for their final preseason game five days later in Chicago. The team hopes to have another quarterback on hand to mop up in that game because it’s likely that McCown won’t play.

Meanwhile, the experiment from quarterback to receiver of Terrelle Pryor resumed on Wednesday when he returned to practice after missing the past eight days with a sore hamstring. Pryor was held to a pitch count, Pettine said, and his game availability will depend on Pryor responding well to Wednesday's practice.

Asked if there is any conversation about Pryor returning to quarterback, Pettine said, "No."​
 
Browns shutting down quarterback Johnny Manziel because of recurrent elbow soreness
By Tony Grossi | ESPNCleveland.com



An MRI done on Manziel’s elbow showed “no structural damage,” Pettine said, which the team considered a positive. But the coach revealed for the first time that Manziel’s sore elbow “is something he’s been dealing with since high school.”


Some chronic ulnar collateral ligament changes are not detected by MRI and result in a false-negative study. This can happen in as many as 1/4 of the cases per one study. {If his problem continues, I'm not sure that an MRI arthrogram would not be appropriate. And I'm not really sure if they are using the term "structural damage" to exclude scarification changes in the ligament reflecting chronic recurrent micro-tears since at this time there may not be an acute overt tear detected. Either way, I would not be referring to this as a minor problem for a QB.
 
Last edited:
Kolb
Keenum
& now Manziel..


Sumlin & Briles' systems do their qb's no favors entering the league. In addition to no physical playbooks, their systems also don't teach their qb's to be patient and take what the defense is giving them b/c they are constantly trying to go downfield. That works in college...not so much in the pros. As a result they get used to looking over the defense for the big plays rather than reading what's going on in the teeth of it....That's why you see so many of their qb's holding onto the ball so long & scrambling around trying to extend plays...hard to get them out of reading the route trees from long to short.


Thats bullshit Sumlin had a playbook at UH but he doesn't when he goes to colleyville? If thats the case and Johnny didn't have one maybe its because Sumlin and Kingsbury felt they had to limit the playbook so Johnny wouldn't get confused.
 
Thats bullshit Sumlin had a playbook at UH but he doesn't when he goes to colleyville? If thats the case and Johnny didn't have one maybe its because Sumlin and Kingsbury felt they had to limit the playbook so Johnny wouldn't get confused.

Having known a U of H player during the Keenum/Sumlin era, I can assure you that Sumlin had a physical playbook at U of H. At A&M, the concept of not having a physical playbook was partly an incorporation of the Mike Leach philosophy by Kingsbury and partly in recognition of Manziel's inability to digest/follow one.

No playbook required for Ags in Sumlin's ready-made raid
By Brent Zwerneman

Updated 12:06 am, Wednesday, November 14, 2012

COLLEGE STATION - Texas A&M receiver Malcome Kennedy's game-winning catch Saturday in a 29-24 upset of then-No. 1 Alabama gave A&M fans a sense of déjà vu.

Coach Sherman had a very, very complex system - he used the NFL system," said Kennedy, whose Aggies play host to non-conference foe Sam Houston State on Saturday. "It would take (some) players years to learn the schemes and how to fit places. Coach Sumlin and coach Kingsbury explained their system, and we got it in, I promise you, about three or four days."
"Just a basic corner route," Kennedy said Tuesday of snagging a perfectly arced pass from Johnny Manziel.

A little more than a month earlier at Ole Miss, Manziel had connected with Ryan Swope for a game-winning touchdown - also on the left side of the end zone.

"He hit me on the same play," Kennedy said. "It's just a basic play."

Through 10 games, "basic" has been part of the beauty of the Aggies' offense under first-year coach Kevin Sumlin and coordinator Kliff Kingsbury, compared to the prior West Coast offense of then-coach Mike Sherman, who arrived at A&M in 2007 after a decade in the NFL.

The no-huddle Aggies are on pace to top the Southeastern Conference total-offense record in their first year in the league. The 1995 Florida Gators, under Steve Spurrier, hold the current mark at 534.4 yards per game. A&M is averaging 545.4, and Manziel is among the leading candidates for the Heisman Trophy.

"Half the time we didn't cover the gaps right or cover the right man," Alabama linebacker C.J. Mosley said of combating A&M. "When you do that, they're going to make plays."

Sounds complex - but in reality the Aggies keep it simple.

"That's by design," Sumlin said. "We're better off having 11 guys knowing what to do on offense - and the guys we're playing against knowing what we're going to do - than having two or three guys (on offense) knowing exactly what we're going to do and it being real fancy or complicated."

Sumlin also cited the NCAA rule limiting coach and player interaction to 20 hours a week.

"In the NFL, there's a lot more time," Sumlin said. "You have to use your time wisely … and it's hard to do that with a real thick playbook."

In fact, the Aggies don't even own a playbook.

"It's something for someone to pick up and put on the Internet," Sumlin said of why not.

Kingsbury added their philosophy also stems from his time under former Texas Tech coach Mike Leach in the Air Raid offense.

"It's a belief that if you can get them to play faster and not think as much and let them use their natural abilities the best they can, then you're going to have a better product," Kingsbury said. "We'd have so many repetitions, and (Leach) would say, 'They're going to know it's coming, and they're still not going to be able to stop you.' "

A&M linebacker Jonathan Stewart knows the feeling from practice.

"Their play calls and terminology are a lot shorter compared to the West Coast offense coach Sherman had," Stewart said. "That's what allows them to go so fast."
 
Having known a U of H player during the Keenum/Sumlin era, I can assure you that Sumlin had a physical playbook at U of H. At A&M, the concept of not having a physical playbook was partly an incorporation of the Mike Leach philosophy by Kingsbury and partly in recognition of Manziel's inability to digest/follow one.

In some ways, it's like a return to the old Lombardi (or the Kubiak) strategy. You have a few basic plays, practice the hell out of them until you can run them perfectly even in your sleep, then you dare people to stop you even though they know what's coming.
 
What Johnny Manziel's Hometown Knows About Its Favorite Son That We Don't

TYLER, Texas — The highlight played over and over in his uncle's restaurant on Old Bullard Road. It flickered on the television screen in the living room of his Little League coach's house. And it flashed repeatedly on a big screen in the golf club where he was a regular as a boy, each frame of the clip a reminder of all that is possible for Johnny Manziel.

Here in the hometown of Johnny Football—a city of 96,000 nestled in the heart of oil country—the play from the second quarter of the Cleveland Browns' season opener against the New York Jets on Sunday has been rehashed and reviewed countless times, dissected like a football Zapruder film. In the 6.1 seconds from snap to whistle, a community of detectives in Tyler has searched for clues in the hope that it will find a missing quarterback.

Facing a 3rd-and-19 from his own 46-yard line, Manziel, who had entered the game for the concussed Josh McCown, dropped back to pass. With the pocket collapsing, Manziel reared back and unleashed a textbook-perfect throw. The ball spiraled beautifully through the bright September sky, traveling the arc of a rainbow. It landed in the arms of receiver Travis Benjamin, who caught it in stride and jogged into the end zone for a 54-yard touchdown.

This play was Manziel operating at the height of his football powers, illustrating his arm strength, his accuracy, his quick decision-making, and his ability to keep his eyes downfield in the face of pressure.

His uncle, Harley Hooper, remembers when Johnny, as a 12-year-old Pop Warner player, would stand in the middle of the field at Hubbard Middle School at practice and throw similar 50-yard bombs that would clank off a rusted goalpost.

"Johnny has worked very hard to get his head on straight and solve his personal problems, and now he's coming back to life," Hooper recalled earlier this month, sitting in the lounge of Villaggio del Vino, a restaurant in Tyler that he co-owns. "He was in a dark place there for some time, but never count this kid out. People have been doing that to him his whole life, and he thrives on it."

Yes, it was just one play against the Jets—Manziel would finish 13-of-24 for 182 yards with one touchdown and one interception in the 31-10 loss—but it raised a legitimate question: Is Johnny Manziel, who was a flop as a rookie and who spent 10 weeks in a rehab facility in Ohio during the offseason, on his way to a career rebirth at the age of 22?

With McCown's status for Sunday's game against the Tennessee Titans unclear as of Tuesday morning, Manziel may start against the defense that last week intercepted Jameis Winston twice and held him to a QBR of 6.7, the lowest among Week 1 starting quarterbacks.
This we know: There are NFL scouts who still very much believe in Johnny.

"It was known throughout the league that when Johnny was coming out of college he was a party guy," said a longtime NFC scout. "But it's now also known throughout the league that Johnny has genuinely turned his life around. He's making all the right decisions off the field. And on the field, he's got the NFL arm, he's got the speed, he's got the intelligence, but he's only 5'11".

"Still, I think he's got a chance to be very good. He was up and down against the Jets, but there was more good than bad. There were times he looked like a young Fran Tarkenton, and that's who he should model his game after. To me, he looks like a new-and-improved Johnny."

To begin to understand this new version of Manziel, you must travel to the place of his birth. Because after the legend of Johnny Football nearly destroyed the person of Jonathan Paul Manziel, Tyler was the place that helped lift him back to his feet.

Once upon a time in this dusty East Texas town, there was a boy named Johnny. This is really how every story about this child should begin, because his life seemed ripped from the pages of a folk tale.

When he was two, Johnny could swing his three-foot-long Fisher-Price golf club as if he were a miniature Ben Hogan, repeatedly blasting plastic golf balls over his backyard pool, over a fence and into the neighbor's yard. Within a decade, Johnny would consistently shoot in the mid-70s at Tyler's Hollytree Country Club, where the Manziels lived off the 16th hole.

"Johnny's hand-eye coordination was mind-boggling," said Hooper of his nephew.

When he was nine, Johnny hit so many baseballs over the left field fence at Golden Road Park in Tyler that the Little League coaches erected a taller fence that resembled a mini-Green Monster. But in his first plate appearance at the newly appointed field, little Johnny, narrowing his eyes in determination, crushed a moonshot over the fence. The ball traveled so far that it broke a woman's bathroom window.

"Johnny was a little guy, but he had big hands, and his feet were as big as the Little League rubber on the pitcher's mound," said Drew Landes, one of Manziel's Little League coaches. "At age 11, he wore size-12 shoes. He always was forgetting his cleats, and we'd have to drive to Wal-Mart to get him a new pair.

"The thing about Johnny was that he was just so intense. He'd get so mad at himself if he failed at something, and he was so aggressive. We'd have to calm him down sometimes, but it showed how badly he wanted to succeed and beat the guys standing in front of him."

When he was 10, Johnny watched the Tyler Hurricanes Pop Warner team from the sideline. Michelle Manziel wouldn't let her little boy play—she was afraid he was too brittle—and so Johnny would pace up and down the sideline during the Hurricanes' games, teeth clenched, his eyes riveted to the action on the field.

The next year, Michelle Manziel relented, and Johnny became the starting quarterback of the Hurricanes. On the first play of his first practice, his coach, Jacky Lee, called a bootleg to Johnny's left.

"Johnny was running sideways to his left and fired a 15-yard bullet across his body that hit our tight end on the money," said Lee. "I looked to an assistant and said, 'This is our go-to guy.'"

But the go-to guy didn't take losing well. Lee remembers seeing him cry after the team lost its first game to a team from South Dallas. "Johnny was hyper-competitive," said Lee. "It was like football was a huge outlet for him."

The beginning of Manziel's problems, according to those who know him best, can be traced to the hour of his greatest triumph. On Nov. 10, 2012, Manziel and Texas A&M knocked off top-ranked Alabama, 29-24, in Tuscaloosa. Manziel was brilliant—the redshirt freshman passed for 253 yards and ran for another 92 yards—as the Aggies snapped the Crimson Tide's 13-game winning streak.

After the game, an overjoyed Michelle tried to hug her son outside the visitor's locker room but was kept at bay by six state troopers.

In a matter of three heart-stopping hours, Manziel—who before the season had briefly contemplated transferring if he wasn't going to be named the starter by coach Kevin Sumlin—had became a national figure.

"Johnny's life did a total 180-degree shift after the Alabama game," said J.B. Moss, one of Manziel's closest friends in Tyler. "He couldn't even go out to eat in College Station because it would cause such a scene. Johnny had never even thought about being famous before. But almost overnight he went from a couple thousand followers on Twitter to a million."

Before the Alabama game, Moss said Manziel had enjoyed a relatively normal and carefree lifestyle, going to Texas Rangers games, golf tournaments and concerts like most other college students.

"He liked to have fun, and his family had money, so it was no big deal," Moss said. "But then the fame thing happens, and then Johnny is having dinner with LeBron James and hanging with Drake. He's still just Johnny having fun, but fans began to question his work ethic. It got to be a lot for Johnny to deal with."

"Johnny went from being a backup quarterback at A&M to, eight months later, winning the Heisman Trophy," said Lee, his old Pop Warner coach. "That is a lot for 20-year-old kid to handle. He certainly enjoyed himself, but who could blame him? He was a college kid having fun."

Edwin Duncan, a longtime family friend in Tyler, worried about Manziel as he watched the hero-worship surrounding Johnny Football grow.

"Girls made themselves available to Johnny, and guys wanted to be Johnny," said Duncan, a vascular surgeon. "When you sit around with Johnny, he's a very polite, low-key guy, someone who I promise you would like. Once he won the Heisman Trophy, he felt pressure to live up to that. Everyone was always looking at him, pointing at him, asking for his autograph. At some point, the demons started running through his head."

Even as a teenager—the Manziel family moved from Tyler to Kerrville, Texas, when Johnny was 13—Manziel enjoyed a frat-boy lifestyle. He once cut a deal with his parents, according to Tim Rohan of the New York Times, that he wouldn't drink in exchange for a new car. (Johnny was presented with a red Camaro the week before the Alabama game in 2012.) At A&M, he underwent counseling for issues with alcohol, according to ESPN The Magazine's Wright Thompson.

Those problems, according to friends and family members, continued to haunt Manziel after Cleveland selected him in the first round of the 2014 NFL draft. Manziel bought an apartment in downtown Cleveland and, in the words of one family member, "began running with people who didn't have Johnny's best interests in their hearts."

"Johnny started to party a little harder," said a family member who requested anonymity. "It got out of control."

Last Dec. 14, Manziel's football career hit rock bottom. In pregame warm-ups before his first NFL start against the Bengals, Manziel repeatedly overthrew receivers—often by 10 yards.

Hooper had flown to Cleveland for the game. He watched from the stands as Johnny looked thoroughly confused and overmatched, tossing two interceptions and completing 10 of 18 passes for 80 yards in the 30-0 loss.

By the time the final whistle blew, Hooper was consumed with one thought: This isn't the Johnny I know.

"At that point, it became clear that something needed to change with Johnny," said Hooper. "We knew he was struggling."

The last domino fell Dec. 27, the day before Cleveland's final game of the season against Baltimore. Manziel slept through a scheduled appointment with the team's medical staff for treatment on his hamstring. He later admitted—to the team and to reporters—that he had been partying into the wee hours of the morning.

"It was a mistake by me," Manziel told reporters. "At the same time, you can sit here and say and talk and say this all you want, but when your actions don't reflect that, and you make a conscious decision to put yourself in that position that you stay out too late and not wake up the next morning, that's going to cause a lot of trouble, so I did that to myself. I brought this on myself."

A few weeks later, Manziel checked into a Pennsylvania rehab clinic for 10 weeks of inpatient therapy. But before he did, he traveled to Tyler one last time for his grandmother's 70th birthday.

Surrounded by about 100 of his family members and closest friends, Manziel appeared at peace, according to family members. It was clear to everyone in attendance that he had made up his mind to change his late-night lifestyle.

"Everyone was happy to see Johnny so happy," said a family member. "It made the party."

A few months later, there were more glimmers that the old Johnny—the Johnny with the bright eyes, the easy smile and the quick wit—was back.

During his rehab stint, he traveled to Tyler for Easter. The extended family gathered at Johnny's parents' place outside of town. Johnny was, by all accounts, the sober life of the party.

He played cards with his beloved grandmother, posed for pictures with his relatives and reminisced about the days of being young and footloose in Tyler. He also explained to those who matter most to him how excited he was to return to Cleveland and make his family proud of him once again.

"We all saw that the fire was back in Johnny," said a family member. "Johnny made so many people happy back when he was playing ball at A&M and doing things on the field that you had to see to believe. Now he wants to bring that same joy to Cleveland. He's been through a storm, but he's coming out the other side of it."

On a bluebird summer morning in Tyler, a middle-aged man who refused to give his name sat atop a lawnmower. He carefully guided the machine over every blade of grass on the Hubbard Middle School athletic field. He steered around the rusted goalpost, kicked up a swirl of dirt as he glided over a bald patch of land and wheeled around a massive oak tree with precision.

He was meticulous in every move he made—he had pride in his craftsmanship—and for good reason: This ground, to him, was hallowed. For this was where Johnny first played football.

"Right here is where the legend was born," said the man, dripping with sweat under the fireball East Texas sun. "And now the legend is coming back. I promise you, he's coming back."

In Tyler, they still believe in the magic of Johnny Football.

Now comes the hard part for Manziel: turning skeptics into believers—one day at a time—1,100 miles away in Cleveland.​
 
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
Hoge says AFC North foes love #Browns starting Manziel: "All you do is set your org back 1 more year by babysitting this guy as starting QB'

#Browns Manziel: 'I think Merril Hoge needs to worry about his big neckties'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/09/johnny_manziel_5.html …​


Has a point...

merril-hoge-e1324937359613.jpg

17m0zfrhpnilxjpg.jpg
 
People hate on Hoge, but i can respect dude b/c he give his honest opinion instead of stroking these guys' ego. He called the VY failure well before it happened & he's been out front of Manziel thing to. He also called Clowney a very avg. football player which i happen to agree with.
 
I'm rooting hard for me some JFF!
Yep, would love to see Johnny put a whooping and an L on the Titans.

Poor Browns fans deserve a bone, as improbable as it may be... that organization is a sad sack of every bad decision ever made. They would go nuts if Manziel beats Mariota/Tennessee.
 
For those who haven't heard yet, McCown has completed the concussion protocol and Pettine has decided to go with him instead of Manziel as starter. As Pettine is a defensive-minded coach, a good deal of that decision appears to be based on ball security or lack thereof.
 
Manziel will be the starter before the year is out. I don't see McCown being successful with the lack of weapons available in Cleveland. Manziel put some good things on tape that make him a more tantalizing option in the long run.
 
People hate on Hoge, but i can respect dude b/c he give his honest opinion instead of stroking these guys' ego. He called the VY failure well before it happened & he's been out front of Manziel thing to. He also called Clowney a very avg. football player which i happen to agree with.

I don't dislike Hoge, and like you, I appreciate most of his analysis.

That said, he's still wearing a clown tie. You'd think someone on the set would fix it, for nothing else but to represent ESPN.
 
Manziel will be the starter before the year is out. I don't see McCown being successful with the lack of weapons available in Cleveland. Manziel put some good things on tape that make him a more tantalizing option in the long run.

He might be protecting Manziel. Y'know, we saw some good things, but we saw some bad things as well. He'll get another shot, these are the things we want him to work on, the things we'll be looking at next time.
 
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
Hoge says AFC North foes love #Browns starting Manziel: "All you do is set your org back 1 more year by babysitting this guy as starting QB'

#Browns Manziel: 'I think Merril Hoge needs to worry about his big neckties'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/09/johnny_manziel_5.html …​


Has a point...

merril-hoge-e1324937359613.jpg

17m0zfrhpnilxjpg.jpg
What the hell?

First pick like he's wearing a Sargento cheese wedge
Second pic is straight out the Men's Warehouse Bozo the Clown line.
 
Well, did anyone ever think that "Johnny Football" was going to die. Sadly, independent of his football career, if he keeps this up, he will.

Johnny Manziel pulled over after arguing with girlfriend, admitted to drinking

Pat McManamon, ESPN Staff Writer

Cleveland Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel was pulled over Monday because of a domestic incident and admitted to drinking earlier in the day, according to a police report.

Several witnesses called police after seeing Manziel and his girlfriend, TCU student Colleen Elizabeth Crowley, arguing in a vehicle on Monday. The argument escalated to the point that Crowley tried to leave the car as it exited a highway.

Both Manziel and Crowley admitted to arguing, and Manziel told police they had been drinking earlier in the day. The police officer made the determination that Manziel was not intoxicated and he was not charged. Police believed Crowley was intoxicated and offered her a ride, which she declined before leaving with Manziel.

Manziel spent 10 weeks in rehab for unspecified treatment earlier this year. It is not known if his aftercare prohibits him from drinking.

"We were aware of the situation," Browns GM Ray Farmer said in a statement. "It is a matter that we take seriously and have expressed our concerns to Johnny directly. Those conversations will remain private and we will refrain from further comment at this time."

The team said Manziel's status for Sunday's game will not change. He has been the Browns' backup the past three games.

The police report said a driver on an interstate west of Cleveland, near Manziel's home, was passed by a car on the shoulder going what she thought was about 90 miles per hour. As they entered Avon, where Manziel lives, the driver noticed the car "cut over several lanes of (traffic) and begin to exit" the highway.

At that point, the driver saw a female passenger trying to open her door, with the driver holding her back. The witness said the driver had his arm and elbow around the neck of the female.

Crowley had a friction burn on her wrist when police arrived, which law enforcement attributed to Manziel trying to keep Crowley in the car, but no other injuries.

The police report was first obtained by WEWS-TV in Cleveland.
 
More details

AVON, Ohio - Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel, was pulled over by Avon police after police said a domestic argument got out of hand on Interstate 90 westbound earlier in the week.

Police said alcohol was involved. The argument took place between Manziel and his Texas Christian University girlfriend Colleen Elizabeth Crowley.

According to a four-page police report obtained exclusively by newsnet5.com, both were drinking but were not charged.

The incident started on I-90 westbound near the Nagle Road overpass on Monday at 6 p.m.

According to the report, a witness called police after seeing Manziel's white Nissan use the shoulder of the road to pass her at a high speed.

The witness told police the couple was arguing and Crowley attempted to exit the vehicle while they were on the road.

In the report, both Manziel and Crowley admitted they were having an argument . Crowley said she threw Manziel's wallet out of the window.

The report stated the couple then stopped the car in an Avon neighborhood and continued arguing. That's when a second witness called police.

Minutes later, police stopped Manziel's car on Nagle Road where he said both he and Crowley had been drinking in downtown Cleveland earlier that day.

In the report, Crowley told police Manziel pushed her head into a window. She wanted her cell phone because she was concerned about her safety and said she just wanted to return to Texas.

The report stated police did see an abrasion on Crowley's arm but later determined that the abrasion was from Manziel's attempt to keep her from getting out of the vehicle while it was on the road.

According to the report, police did not believe the couple was intoxicated to the point where they could be charged and Crowley told officers that she did not want to press charges so both were allowed to leave the scene in Manziel's car.

link
 
'Absolutely not' a good idea for Johnny Manziel to drink, former coach says
  • Pat McManamon, ESPN Staff Writer
Johnny Manziel did not drink when his former high school coach lived with him in the spring and summer, the coach told USA Today on Saturday.

"He kept his sobriety alive and well when I was there," said Julius Scott, whom Manziel asked to live with him after leaving treatment in April.

Scott, 55, quit his job and moved in with Manziel for several weeks. He reacted with concern when he read that Manziel told police he had two drinks with his girlfriend Monday in downtown Cleveland.

"If he asked me if I thought drinking was a good idea, I would say absolutely not," Scott said. "You'd have to have your head examined if you said, 'It's OK to go have a couple.'"


Police questioned but did not charge Manziel after the quarterback and girlfriend Colleen Crowley argued in a car as Manziel drove to his suburban home. A witness reported Manziel going an estimated 90 mph on the left shoulder, then crossing several lanes of traffic to exit the highway. Police questioned Manziel after he pulled over.

The police report indicates that Crowley was intoxicated and quotes her saying Manziel was "beating her" in the car and that he pushed her head against the glass as he drove.

Avon, Ohio, police said they did not file charges because there was no supporting evidence of abuse and because they did not witness Manziel's driving. In Ohio an officer has to see what happened to file a minor misdemeanor charge, according to police.

Police said no charges would be pursued and that there was no concern about Manziel being drunk, which is why he was allowed to drive Crowley to his Avon home.

Both Manziel and Crowley posted on social media saying they had a simple argument and that their relationship was fine.

Denver Broncos, which means he should be the backup to Josh McCown and active.

Manziel entered rehab at the Caron Center outside Reading, Pennsylvania, in late January and was released in April ahead of the Browns' offseason workouts. The exact nature of Manziel's treatment was unclear, but the facility specializes in drug and alcohol rehabilitation.

The team also has no immediate plans to suspend or release Manziel. The Browns remain supportive of his post-rehab efforts but are concerned about the most recent incident.

Manziel's teammates did not notice anything awry in the quarterback or in his practice reps during the week.

One player who knew something happened was linebacker Paul Kruger, who also lives in Avon. He happened to drive by where Manziel and police cars were stopped on his way home from a garden store and stopped to see what was wrong. Police told Kruger to wait in his car while they talked to Manziel and Crowley.

Manziel's reckless driving reportedly did not stop on Monday, though. The Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports that Manziel was driving dangerously on Thursday, three days after the incident.
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FYI, the Caron Center runs a strict 12-step program that translates into life-long abstinence.
 
Johnny being Johnny.

I didn't want the guy for football reasons, but he's making so many mistakes off the field that he's not even going to get a chance to reLly play.
 
Nobody would care about Manziel (except Aggies) if he and the media had not shoved his "brand" down everyone's throats. This is simple Newtonian physics: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Yup and too many of these players are so consumed with building a 'brand' before building the pro career first. I don't see how this chump in the NFL next season. Go to the CFL little boy.
 
Yup and too many of these players are so consumed with building a 'brand' before building the pro career first. I don't see how this chump in the NFL next season. Go to the CFL little boy.

Manziel has become a Jerry project where he can be acquired really cheap and given the opportunity to do become a high achiever or go bust.

I am giving Manziel the benefit of the doubt in the latest situation because I know someone who ended up on the bad side of law enforcement in an effort to calm down a belligerent drunk female, and a very good lesson learned from the experience. However, given the rehab program that Manziel just completed, he shouldn't be engaging in any social drinking and should behave in a manner to not draw any negative attention.
 
Manziel has become a Jerry project where he can be acquired really cheap and given the opportunity to do become a high achiever or go bust.

I am giving Manziel the benefit of the doubt in the latest situation because I know someone who ended up on the bad side of law enforcement in an effort to calm down a belligerent drunk female, and a very good lesson learned from the experience. However, given the rehab program that Manziel just completed, he shouldn't be engaging in any social drinking and should behave in a manner to not draw any negative attention.

That 'High Achiever' will never happen because he can't help himself and keeps putting himself in these situations. All of this is his own doing. He's just a party boy and might not get the chance to grow up. Favre was a party boy too but he was a really good QB. Manziel doesn't look like he has what it takes to make it in the league against men that are more dedicated than he is.
 
I have to admit I read about this and instantly thought about Chris Rock's bit about not getting your ass kicked by the police (and had a mental picture of the girl he's riding with screaming "HE GOT WEED! HE GOT WEED!").
 
I have to admit I read about this and instantly thought about Chris Rock's bit about not getting your ass kicked by the police (and had a mental picture of the girl he's riding with screaming "HE GOT WEED! HE GOT WEED!").
I think Jonny should lay off the alcohol and use weed instead.
 
Yup and too many of these players are so consumed with building a 'brand' before building the pro career first. I don't see how this chump in the NFL next season. Go to the CFL little boy.

Do you hate him because he's successful? Because he was born into wealth? Because he gets hot chicks? From A&M? This just in, there's a different set of rules in this country for wealthy people.

I dont hate or like JM. I just hope he gets the help he needs and is able to live a healthy productive life, regardless of football.

Hate on
 
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