Oh I think the Texans won a few games on the strength of Schaub... the game in GB comes to mind
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"The General", John McClain, talks Texans' QB prospects and Clowney trade talk
- Thread starter kmichaelcook
- Start date
Oh I think the Texans won a few games on the strength of Schaub... the game in GB comes to mind
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You can win with him but you won't win because of him.
A few. I'm a Schaub fan. But he was no Staubach.
No he wasn't, he was a top 10 QB for a few years which is a helluvalot better than we've seen the last 3
Number19
Hall of Fame
Just a quick search found this. RX-7's won the GTU championship 7 years in a row and the GTO championship 10 years in a row. The write up below just had a brief mention of Don Kearney and John Finger. I believe these are two of the drivers I recall.
The RX-7 has won more IMSA races than any other car model.
Back to football.
(From Wikipedia)
Mazda began racing RX-7s in the IMSAGTU series in 1979. In its first year, RX-7s placed first and second at the 24 Hours of Daytona, and claimed the GTU series championship. The car continued winning, claiming the GTU championship seven years in a row. The RX-7 took the GTO championship ten years in a row from 1982. In addition to this, a GTX version was developed, named the Mazda RX-7 GTP; this was unsuccessful, and the GTP version of the car was also unsuccessful. The RX-7 has won more IMSA races than any other car model. In the USA SCCA competition RX-7s were raced with great success by Don Kearney in the NE Division and John Finger in the SE Division. Pettit Racing won the GT2 Road Racing Championship in 1998. The car was a 93 Mazda RX-7 street car with only bolt-on accessories. At season end Pettit had 140 points—63 points more than the 2nd place team. This same car finished the Daytona Rolex 24-hour race 4 times.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
They almost created a class for them but you go with that
They had a flukey engine displacement issue.
U stands for Under.
No serious racer is/was scared of an RX.
They had a flukey engine displacement issue.
U stands for Under.
No serious racer is/was scared of an RX.
A good starter, potential pro bowler, when's the last time you could call a Texans starter that?
What better do you guys think the Texans could land this off season? Should they stick with Hoyer until that franchise hall of famer comes walking through that door?
I'll hang up now and listen.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You just like saying naked.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
How do you spell euuuuuuhh?
I've been wondering what the Brian Hoyer fan club did during the playoffs.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Not since the good days of Schuab. i just dont see Glennon ever being a Superbowl winning QB
We're going to have to have a stop gap QB for at least a year or two at this point, he would be a pretty good one imho. And he's just as capable as Dilfer or Johnson or Flacco don't ya think? The only way we have a QB that is capable of winning a Superb Owl trophy next year is if we trade for someone out of the realm of possibility. None of these QB's in the draft are that right now, they may become that but they will need some time. None of the FA's appear to be that, and RGIII certainly doesn't. IF (and it's a huge if), we can make it to the Super Bowl in 2016 or even 2017, it will be with a dominant defense, a stout running game, and a QB that won't lose a 42-0 or 30-0 game for us. I think Glennon can manage that
The Bucs thought the same about Doug Williams, Steve Young and Trent Dilfer also. They have history of sending off QBs only to see them win Super Bowls elsewhere. Vinny Testaverde also performed well once he was put in a good situation falling one game short of the SB with the Jets.
Well, looks like we can remove Mike Glennon as a Texans QB candidate next season. It appears GM Jason Licht and the Bucs won't be fielding offers (unless he is blown away) for reasons that only reinforces my opinion of Glennon and why I thought the Texans should take a run at him.
The whole story is here http://www.pewterreport.com/articles/srs-fab-5-bucs-wont-trade-glennon-vjax-will-return-in-2016/
As a fan of the Bucs I would much rather have Glennon next year backing up Winston in the case that he goes down. In that situation I don't think there would be too much drop off. Especially if the Bucs are only going to get a mid round pick for him.
As a fan of the Texans I would have loved to see him starting in Houston next year. I also feel bad for the guy since I think he is better than many current starters and shouldn't be stuck riding the pine for another season.
The whole story is here http://www.pewterreport.com/articles/srs-fab-5-bucs-wont-trade-glennon-vjax-will-return-in-2016/
As a fan of the Bucs I would much rather have Glennon next year backing up Winston in the case that he goes down. In that situation I don't think there would be too much drop off. Especially if the Bucs are only going to get a mid round pick for him.
As a fan of the Texans I would have loved to see him starting in Houston next year. I also feel bad for the guy since I think he is better than many current starters and shouldn't be stuck riding the pine for another season.
That's pretty much standard GM speak. Who knows how much it would take to "blow them away"... two 3rds would most probably do it. A Schaub type deal with lower picks?
You don't draft one and start him just to start him. If he ain't ready, and I don't think any of the QB's in this draft are, you let him sit for awhile and get up to speed. Ergo, another stop gap while he learns.
texanhead08
All Pro
The idea is to draft and start him if he's ready, but if the coaching feels he isn't ready and Hoyer or whichever stop gap is the back up starts you know the first pick he throws people are going to start flipping out.
Maybe you wouldn't. Not likely they will come in with enough poise and the game slowed down enough for them to have a clue. I would prefer they sit and hold a clipboard with a heatset on at the start. How long depends entirely on them. Some can come in mid-season, some take longer. But I think for their long term development it is better for all that they observe the battle front before being tossed into the fire.
These guys (Cook & Hogan) are three year starters playing the best teams in the country on the biggest stages. I understand due diligence & all, but these guys already know about protections, hot reads, & playing under center. These aren't the small school spread offense QBs that need the game to slow down.
You never know until you know, I understand. But if you had no problem starting Winston or Mariota day one, you shouldn't have a problem starting Cook or Hogan.
But I would have had a problem starting either of those guys day 1. I think Goff and Wentz are probably more pro ready than Cook or Hogan, but I wouldn't start them day 1 either. Just a different philosophy.
How is Goff & Wentz more "pro ready"
I think they both have better mechanics than Hogan and are more mentally fit than Cook
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Was that the exploding Pinto that came with 4 self destructing Firestone 500 tires?
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Staubach is a VERY HIGH standard.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Don't know about the tires. I was a little young for the production tires It was neutered for exploding. It did have the 2000cc engine that was the basis for several racing classes and so helped me pit crewing.
The highest. He's my favorite QB.
Having met him later in life, he's a genuinely nice guy.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
http://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/Papers/1999/Leggett-pinto.html
Definitely the right Model
http://www.autosafety.org/firestone-500-steel-belted-radials
Ford had a deal with Firestone at the time and those Firestone 500 tires were popular add ons at the time of purchase.
ps Staubach was a favorite of mine dating back to his service in Vietnam at a time the war was losing popular support and his famous reply to the Namath playboy image in an interview with Phyllis George stating he had as much enjoyment with sex as Namath, but with just ONE woman, his wife.
Because it virtually guarantees that he will? lol
MistaRed
Rookie
That's the thing lol. Idk if he's right or wrong.
To paraphrase Cak, that's why you aren't a HC. Ha!
Maybe.
I just think there's something wrong with the way they're grading QBs nowadays. Athletecism is big. Where it was always a plus, nowadays, if you ain't got plus athletecism, you're hardly a thought.
Cook looks like a better prospect to me than Matt Ryan coming out of Boston College. Kevin Hogan, he's not Andrew Luck, but he's not that big a drop off & the biggest difference is what Hogan doesn't do with his legs.
I'm not going to disagree with that. My disagreement is with starting a rookie QB, unless he earned it. I like the idea of them holding the clipboard until they show that they're the better player at the position.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Picking a QB high and then having the luxury of him being groomed is not something most teams can do. If you're going high on the position then you are in need. Having a blue chip type talent 'learn' from a scrub veteran doesnt mean he'll be more successful.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Did you watch Hogan? Hogan is a backup without any special qualities.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Mike Glennon would be a great option for us. I always liked him, going back to his days at NC State. Big arm, can make all the throws. He played in an offense at NC State that threw the ball entirely too much and was predictable but he still produced well. I concur with Hookem that he should have started the McCown year. I watch a lot of Bucs football, as I live in Orlando (same situation as Hookem) and many of my friends are Bucs fans. Glennon got a raw deal and I told all my Bucs fan friends that Lovie, as soon as he signed McCown and immediately named him the starter, would eventually get fired. Lovie's thinking and his defensive scheme were outdated.
It would take a Schaub like deal to nab him, but it's not at all a bad option. I'd actually be excited about that move.
It would take a Schaub like deal to nab him, but it's not at all a bad option. I'd actually be excited about that move.
I agree with the nothing special part. He's just demonstrated that he can produce out of a pro style offense, within the design of that pro style offense, against the best in the country. He's done it for 4 seasons(?). & he's still athletic enough to make things happen when the play breaks down.
He reminds me of Hasselbeck. With hair.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Hey Hasselbeck should have a SB ring if the league didnt gift it to Pittsburgh that year
bah007
Hall of Fame
TK, I generally agree with most of the things that you have to say. But the last two years I just can't agree with your view on the QB topic. You have freely admitted multiple times that you don't watch college football at all. So it's hard to take your grades on these players seriously. You're just looking at a piece of paper with their size, school, and stats on it and then deciding if you like them or not. It needs to be so much more than that if you're going to try to get a true evaluation of a player.
Even if you're watching highlights that's not the same. You need to have seen the player at his best and his worst to have a real idea of what you're getting. Actually watching these players game after game is what shows where the differences lie.
I don't think athleticism is as important to most teams as the fans make it out to be. It's a plus attribute, like you said. But it's not a necessity. We're just seeing it a lot more because of how the college game has changed, and on the whole, QBs these days are more athletic than the QBs of the past.
Hogan may not be quite the athlete that Luck is but he was actually used more as a runner in college. It's not that Hogan adds less than Luck with his legs. He adds less with his arm. And it's a huge drop off actually. Luck was the focal point of an offense that attacked teams both deep and intermediate in the middle of the field and outside the hashes. He used his athletic ability to attack only when the defense turned their backs to him and gave him room to scramble. Hogan is not the focal point of his offense. He's just a distributor. His offense attacks laterally in the screen game and with short passes to the RBs and TEs. He occasionally takes a deep shot but most of the work is done by the receivers after they have already caught the ball. Because his offense is not dangerous in two key areas of the passing game (intermediate middle and sideline), he is also used as a runner on designed QB runs far more frequently than Luck ever was. Their legs are a wash. Maybe Luck is a better runner but that's not his game. Running ability is actually a far bigger part of Hogan's game because he isn't nearly as good with his arm. If he were a better passer there wouldn't be such a huge drop off between he and Luck, but he's not.
Ryan's highest rushing total in college for an entire season was only 94 yards, and the other three years he combined for -36. Cook finished his career with four times as many rushing yards on just about the same number of carries. There's no way to argue that he is ranked below Ryan because he is less athletic. He is ranked below because he has a fatal flaw with his accuracy. Cook does play in a pro style offense, but Ryan was given way more control at the line of scrimmage. Ryan had no running game at all to support him while Cook has had his last two RBs drafted, and his back this year was pretty darn good as a freshman. Ryan only had one WR that was good enough to get drafted. Cook has had two and a TE, plus Burbridge this year and their current TE will get drafted next year, so five. I wasn't even a huge Matt Ryan fan the year he came out but what he did with that group of players completely trumps what Cook has done with his surrounding cast of all stars, not to mention with one of the top defenses in the nation watching his back. Every game Boston College played, everybody in the stadium knew that Ryan was going to have to put that team on his back if they were going to have any shot of winning, and he did it more times than not. All Cook has to do is let his guys do their thing and not mess it up, and he still misses almost literally half of his throws while doing so.
The difference isn't necessarily where they ended up. It's how they got there. And you miss all that if you don't evaluate the players while they are playing the game.
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Right now Jason Licht is saying they are not looking to trade him. I think what he means is that he won't trade him for what most teams will offer (a mid round pick and I wouldn't either). If they can land a 3rd they should move him. As you said Glennon got shafted by the Lovie administration and that ended up costing Lovie his job, however it also landed the Bucs Winston. So it put Glennon in an even worse situation as far as having a chance to start and continue his progression.
If Glennon was locked up for a few more years I wouldn't trade him at all since you can't beat having 2 solid QBs, especially considering many teams (Texans) don't even have one. However unless Winston has a career ending injury next season or does something stupid off the field, Glennon will be walking away for nothing to little in return after next season.
From a Texans POV they should see if they can get Licht to budge for a 3rd. If not throw in Clowney
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TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Right now Jason Licht is saying they are not looking to trade him. I think what he means is that he won't trade him for what most teams will offer (a mid round pick and I wouldn't either). If they can land a 3rd they should move him. As you said Glennon got shafted by the Lovie administration and that ended up costing Lovie his job, however it also landed the Bucs Winston. So it put Glennon in an even worse situation as far as having a chance to start and continue his progression.
If Glennon was locked up for a few more years I wouldn't trade him at all since you can't beat having 2 solid QBs, especially considering many teams (Texans) don't even have one. However unless Winston has a career ending injury next season or does something stupid off the field, Glennon will be walking away for nothing to little in return after next season.
From a Texans POV they should see if they can get Licht to budge for a 3rd. If not throw in Clowney
I'd bet they get several offers for him, I can't think of another QB in the league that would get as much interest that is also in a situation in which a trade helps their current team.
Would you give our 2nd for him? What about a 3rd this year and a 4th next year? I think a 3rd is probably his value, but I would think about giving up a later pick as well if needed.
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Considering how important the QB position is and how bad Rick Smith is at drafting I would give a 2nd round pick. Chances are whomever they end up with in the 2nd is not going to help them as much as Glennon would. That said it won't happen because on paper it's too much.
I think a 3rd is more realistic (from a Bucs POV). A 4th the following the following year would be great (from a Bucs POV), however not sure they will get that.
Glennon's case is a little baffling to me. People that haven't really watched him and are going off of what they have heard or sort of seen from the media (highlights, etc) tend to have a lesser opinion of him than those of us that have truly watched him every game.
Even a couple of the local radio guys tend to not give him his due. Those guys (Steve Duemig the most guilty) drew their opinions of him when he was drafted and refuse to change their opinion of him even after seeing him play. Personally I think it's because he just doesn't look the part. They see this tall, lanky, giraffe neck, "ah shucks" looking dude and think that there is no way he could be a solid NFL QB.
Some head coaches do see his potential though. I can't remember whom it was, however he said that Glennon reminded him of Matt Ryan.
We'll see what happens. I would love to see him go to the Texans because a.) I feel for the guy and want to root for him. b.) I honestly think he is the best option out there for the following season. c.) I want to see him prove his doubters wrong.
If he goes to a team I hate (Dallas for example) I won't be able to pull for the guy.
Shishkabob
All Pro
anyone new presents hope?
This is why Goff is my #1 rated QB. He's done more with less.
Brian Hoyer, TJ Yates, Tom Savage, Brandon Weedon, Rick Smith with 22nd overall pick .... that's 6 "why"s, need more?
Good post, thank you. However, while I don't watch college football pre se, I do watch plenty during Bowl season. Especially the "big" games. I've seen plenty of Connor Cook over the last three years.
I generally don't watch highlights. I do look for the QB cut ups. Like Hogan vs Northwestern, or Note Dame, or something showing every throw.
I watch the analysis videos, & I generally take the words & opinions of you guys here. I've asked what's wrong with this guy, or that guy. Then I'll go back & see if I can see the same thing. Like Connor Cooks accuracy. I think he's got a very good understanding of ball placement & a better than average ability to put the ball where he wants it.
Why his numbers are so low? I'm still trying to figure that out.
Hogan... I like what I've been able to find. I hope more stuff will come out as we go through this process & I'll be looking for things to change my mind.