Any military title applied to someone like McClain is offending... If it was Colonel I suppose it could be referring to Sanders tho...
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"The General", John McClain, talks Texans' QB prospects and Clowney trade talk
- Thread starter kmichaelcook
- Start date
Any military title applied to someone like McClain is offending... If it was Colonel I suppose it could be referring to Sanders tho...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
At least Captain has a civilian meaning.
I think it was Seth Payne that refuses to call him the general for basically the same reason.
I asked Google, and came with this HT.com forum (now TT.com) thread from 2006 asking the same thing: Why do they call him the General ?
Yeah a few of them and it could be stretched that one really did apply
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
With Mercilus starting to blossom into a great compliment to JJ at the other end you have to dangle JDC to teams like the Titans and Giants, high drafting teams that desperately need some pass rushing. JDC still holds name recognition and if you sweeten the pot you might be able to pull off a stunner. Calls for an uber aggressive approach, completely against the Texan MO, but its time these guys pull a stunt.
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
McClain wrote for the Daily Cougar when I was there. He was known as an egomaniac.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
You actually read the Daily Cougar? I was too busy getting to classes.
I don't know if I would trade JDC to a division rival.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
He's not a poser. He didn't say he was an American "General". Maybe he's one of those South American or Middle-Eastern "Generals". He's a General like ol' Muammar Gaddafi(Duck) was a "Colonel" or Manuel Noriega was a "General".
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Gaddafi and Noriega were both formally trained members of the military (Gaddafi by the Brits, Noriega by us) although they did give themselves promotions.
texanhead08
All Pro
I don't think our pick plus Clowney could get us in the top 10.
Its safe to say looking at those mocks that everyone has us picking someone other than Clowney, but there is one dynamic to picking Clowney #1 that no one has mentioned. He went to South Carolina the same school as Bob McNair. You think it might have been ole Bob pushing them to take Clowney.
Its safe to say looking at those mocks that everyone has us picking someone other than Clowney, but there is one dynamic to picking Clowney #1 that no one has mentioned. He went to South Carolina the same school as Bob McNair. You think it might have been ole Bob pushing them to take Clowney.
Actually if you read the thread entire, it's been mentioned quite a bit
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Clowney,this years first, next years first and filler could probably get you in the room with Tennessee.
I don't know why anyone legitimately thinks Clowney is a realistic bargaining chip.
His injury history is extensive now and well chronicled. And other teams have the internet.
His injury history is extensive now and well chronicled. And other teams have the internet.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I'm curious as to whether those promoting his trade to vault to a top 10 pick(Top 2?, first overall?) are the same folks who are complaining about what a horrible bust he is. Not curious enough to actually research it, but curious none the less.
H
humblegeo
Guest
Clowney has very little trade value because he is the biggest first round draft pick bust known in modern history and the idiots that were responsible for bringing him to Houston should no longer be involved in ANY draft decisions.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Shame the idiots didn't have your crystal ball.
& we'll take a $7M cap hit. Next season we can trade/cut much more cleanly, a lot less painful.
If he shows to be the play maker he was supposed to be this season, we might even get something of value, the team getting him would have a whole year to negotiate with him exclusively.
There's no way he's considered the biggest bust in modern history. When the kid's been on the field, he plays well. Showing all the things people thought they would see.
Bad luck is all.
Chip Kelly traded for Sam Bradford, who was pretty much in Clowney's situation.
If he were healthy this whole time & flat out couldn't play at this level, then yeah... two years later you can call him the biggest bust in modern history. As is... not so much.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Or his knack for hyperbole.
poplarbluffman
Noob
3 elite qb's in this draft and you guys are sitting to low to nab one so I understand the talk. The cost of moving up for one of those top 3 might be 2 #1's and Clowney. Just a draft guy from St Louis but you guys need to win now so signing a decent veteran qb also makes a lot of sense...Bradford is made for your team and closer to home for him
as to Clowney wasn't as high on him as most guys...think you guys should be willing to trade him for a top qb
Welcome to the board... who do you think might be willing to trade for an as yet unproven Clowney and two #1's? And it may turn out that it needs to be in the top 10 to get one of those guys.
Not sold on Bradford whose had his own problems staying healthy, and he might be a viable candidate if he would take something a whole lot less than he supposedly asked the Eagles for
I may never understand how draft guys end up with the grades they do, but I do know what I value in a QB is not graded highly nowadays.
But "elite"? I haven't seen any of these guys with "elite" grades, & only two show up on "the" top 32 lists... only one in the top 10, occasionally.
Now that the season is over, the draft order set, the draft guys will be moving QBs up to fill needs, filling "elite" draft spots with "the best" available.
Grams
Veteran
I don't think there is a must have QB in this draft that we would need to give up 2 first round picks plus for. None of them are NFL ready and would probably have to sit for a couple of years. Each one has their problems that would need to be corrected. Not sure how long it takes to teach how to not stare down the receiver, footwork, being under center, etc.
I have no problem with trading Clowney tho. for whoever or whatever. Think Mercilus has come a long way and does just fine.
I have no problem with trading Clowney tho. for whoever or whatever. Think Mercilus has come a long way and does just fine.
$7M dead money against the cap.
Worth it if they could pickup the QB they need.
poplarbluffman
Noob
article I've posted before on other sites about how most/many of the hof qb's have the exact same Myers Briggs personality type out of the 16 types. I try to take a hard look at the top qb's personalities besides their measureables when I rank them and IMO Goff, Lynch and Wentz are all special. IMO way worth a trade up..after that it gets murkier.
Bradford got through this season healthy so his knee will only get stronger...last year on a Rams board I was pushing for Cousins over Foles...good question about top free agent QB's. let me do some research and get back in 2/3 days
Getting back on topic about QB options for next season. I think the most realistic and best option available is trade for Mike Glennon. He will be an unrestricted FA after next season and the Bucs need players. Winston hasn't shown to be injury prone so I think the Bucs can risk next season having a lesser talent on the bench. From the Bucs POV it will be best to get something now than nothing after next season. I think he is too talented to not have a shot at starting somewhere so it's highly doubtful he will settle on remaining Winston's backup by resigning in Tampa.
From the Texans POV, go as high as a 3rd round pick. Glennon "as is right now" is much better than the other QBs currently on the roster, is coming into his 4th season, still young and has the potential for getting better. One thing he doesn't do is turn the ball over. If you want the guy to be a "game manager" you won't get any better, however I think he can be more than a mere game manager.
That said don't treat this as Matt Schaub revisited. Unless Glennon comes in, blows your socks off and proves he can be an "elite" franchise QB, keep your options open for the "franchise" guy if/when that opportunity arises.
I have personally seen Glennon play in person several times and have probably watched every game he has played in. He has gotten a real bad deal here. As a rookie he was thrown into an impossible situation after the meltdown of Freeman and the fiasco during Schiano's tenure. Even with that he performed well with 19 TDs to 9 Ints. The next season Lovie Smith is hired and decides that he wants a proven loser vet (Josh McCown) that he is already familiar with instead of giving a shot to a 2nd year QB that showed promise during his rookie season. That decision "paid off" with earning the #1 overall pick and landing Winston. If Glennon would have been named the starter over McCown and played all of the games the Bucs wouldn't have Winston today and ironically Lovie Smith would probably still have his job here. So it worked out for the best for the Bucs as a franchise. I really like Glennon but not more than Winston and the game has passed Lovie Smith by so he needed to go.
With Glennon I am convinced the Texans will win games and be a playoff contender even when the rest of the AFC South doesn't suck. Is Glennon good enough to lead a team to a SB victory? Not sure. The risk you are taking with Glennon is (if he is already at his ceiling) you might be good enough to advance in the playoffs but not good enough to win a SB (basically what you had with Schaub when he was performing well). In doing that you are not sucking enough to earn a top pick to land a franchise QB like the Bucs did last season. However judging from the Texans draft history with top picks I am not sure that would matter.
From the Texans POV, go as high as a 3rd round pick. Glennon "as is right now" is much better than the other QBs currently on the roster, is coming into his 4th season, still young and has the potential for getting better. One thing he doesn't do is turn the ball over. If you want the guy to be a "game manager" you won't get any better, however I think he can be more than a mere game manager.
That said don't treat this as Matt Schaub revisited. Unless Glennon comes in, blows your socks off and proves he can be an "elite" franchise QB, keep your options open for the "franchise" guy if/when that opportunity arises.
I have personally seen Glennon play in person several times and have probably watched every game he has played in. He has gotten a real bad deal here. As a rookie he was thrown into an impossible situation after the meltdown of Freeman and the fiasco during Schiano's tenure. Even with that he performed well with 19 TDs to 9 Ints. The next season Lovie Smith is hired and decides that he wants a proven loser vet (Josh McCown) that he is already familiar with instead of giving a shot to a 2nd year QB that showed promise during his rookie season. That decision "paid off" with earning the #1 overall pick and landing Winston. If Glennon would have been named the starter over McCown and played all of the games the Bucs wouldn't have Winston today and ironically Lovie Smith would probably still have his job here. So it worked out for the best for the Bucs as a franchise. I really like Glennon but not more than Winston and the game has passed Lovie Smith by so he needed to go.
With Glennon I am convinced the Texans will win games and be a playoff contender even when the rest of the AFC South doesn't suck. Is Glennon good enough to lead a team to a SB victory? Not sure. The risk you are taking with Glennon is (if he is already at his ceiling) you might be good enough to advance in the playoffs but not good enough to win a SB (basically what you had with Schaub when he was performing well). In doing that you are not sucking enough to earn a top pick to land a franchise QB like the Bucs did last season. However judging from the Texans draft history with top picks I am not sure that would matter.
How convenient.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Mike Glennon is so underwhelming. Stop gap, stop gap, stop gap. Lets go pick our guy, and stop trying to make **** sandwiches taste good. I'd much rather take a shot on whoever this staff feels fits in the draft then another retread.
"nahhhh none of these guys really do it for us so we're just gonna go Hoyer again, I dunno maybe Savage, yeah Glennon can win us some games, franchise guy? Yeah we think he might or might not be, lets give him a year to find out.. We heard in the 2020 draft there is this cant miss kid"
"nahhhh none of these guys really do it for us so we're just gonna go Hoyer again, I dunno maybe Savage, yeah Glennon can win us some games, franchise guy? Yeah we think he might or might not be, lets give him a year to find out.. We heard in the 2020 draft there is this cant miss kid"
Rico, we're the Houston Settlers. We settle for scrapheap QBs no one wants.
Now, go dust off the single wing playbook. And darn your jerseys.
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
You say anything worthy of being sensationalized, you get suspended or fired these days.
First off, Glennon isn't a "retread". He's never had a chance to be the "man" to be a someone's "retread". He was by far the best QB taken in the 2013 draft (yeah, not saying much when Geno Smith and AJ Manuel were 1st rounders). However compare his rookie stats to some other rookies that were drafted to be franchise guys and are still starters.
Glennon - 13 games - 2,603 yards - 59.4% - 19 TDs - 9 Ints - 83.9 rating
A. Luck - 16 games - 4,374 yards - 51.4% - 23 TDs - 18 Ints - 76.5 rating
Bortles - 14 games - 2,908 yards - 58.9% - 11 TDs - 17 Ints - 69.5 rating
Derek Carr - 16 games - 3,270 yards - 58.1% - 21 TDs - 12 Ints - 76.6 rating
Bridgewater - 13 games - 2,919 yards - 64.4% - 14 TDs - 12 Ints - 85.2 rating
Mariota - 12 games - 2,818 yards - 62.2 % - 19 TDs - 10 Ints - 91.5 rating
Winston - 16 games - 4,042 yards - 58.3 % - 22 TDs - 15 Ints - 84.2 rating
Ryan Tannehill - 16 games - 3,294 yards - 58.3% - 12 TDs - 13 Ints - 76.1 rating
Eli Manning - 9 games - 1,043 yards - 48.2% - 6 TDs - 9 Ints - 55.4% rating
Peyton Manning - 16 games - 3,739 yards - 56.7% - 26 TDs - 28 Ints - 71.2 rating
Brees (2nd season, only played 1 game as rookie) 16 games - 3,284 yards - 55.6% - 17 TDs - 16 Ints - 76.9 rating
I could keep listing guys and you will see Glennon's rookie stats are better than many (probably most) of those QBs drafted to be starters and are still starting. If Glennon were drafted in the 1st round and projected to be the franchise guy by someone his rookie season he would easily be the starter the 2nd season. However we are talking about the same franchise that felt Steve Young wasn't starter material.
Now for his story ...
The Bucs shocked all of their fans by picking him the 3rd round. This was because at that time Josh Freeman was the "man" and everyone thought he was the QB of the future. Most fans felt it was a wasted pick when the Bucs needed help in other areas. However Schiano knew something was up with Freeman and insisted that they take Glennon in the 3rd. Schiano tried to recruit Glennon in college and was in love with the guy.
Who knows what really went down however Freeman's meltdown that preseason and early season was bizarre. Did Schiano really know something? Was it a case of the new HC not wanting the QB picked by the previous regime? Not sure, but it was bizarre. Also the whole MRSA thing went down that preseason to make things even more crazy around One Buc Place.
During that preseason Freeman looked like total garbage every game however Schiano was pulling him after one or two drives. I couldn't understand why Schiano was doing this. You would think if your starter was struggling you would want him to have more playing time to work out his issues. That didn't happen and Glennon was getting most of the playing time. He was surprisingly good however no one was taking him seriously because surely Freeman would get it figured out.
Despite Glennon's good preseason play the Tampa media kept piling on him saying he "looks like a giraffe" and there is "no way this guy is going to survive playing a regular season game if Freeman falters". The consensus was he was too skinny and not built to survive the hits in the NFL.
Long story short, Freeman continues to meltdown in the regular season and in a bizarre move Schiano releases him after 4 weeks handing the job to Glennon. Most thought Glennon would be dead in a week or two because the offensive line was deplorable and there was no running game. Surprisingly he was tougher than most thought and did well taking hits and staying poised.
I was on a business trip in Seattle and saw Glennon start that season vs the eventual Super Bowl winning Seahawks. The Bucs were like 0-8 and Glennon was the only bright spot on the team. I thought they were going to get killed however went anyway since a client gave us real good club seats. Glennon came out on a tear taking the Bucs to a 21-0 lead in the first half. The shocked Seahawks fans around us kept commenting on how they were impressed with Glennon. After the big lead Schiano took the ball out of Glennon's hands by getting conservative. The Seahawks eventually took the lead going up late 24-21. Now trailing Schiano allowed Glennon to start airing it out again and he drove the length of the field to get the tying FG to send it to OT. The Seahawks won in OT, however. Even in a loss I thought Glennon made a statement that game.
Considering how poor the team was around him with no offensive line, considering he was playing under an average college level coach who had no business coaching a NFL team, I thought he had a real impressive rookie season (as you can see in the stats above). I thought he definitely did enough to be named the starter his 2nd season.
However the Bucs fire Schiano, they hire Lovie Smith and right after Smith is hired he goes out and signs Josh McCown and immediately names him the starter in the off season. Lovie would say things like "Glennon is our future however we need a proven vet to start now and mentor him".
McCown consistently keeps getting outplayed by Glennon in the preseason, so much so that many fans start clamoring for him to be named the starter. The local sports radio station starts calling them the "Glennon Mob". Stubbornly Lovie Smith sticks to his guns, playing the "we're going with the vet card" and McCown doesn't get any better in the regular season. After a few weeks McCown gets hurt and Glennon finally has his chance. What does he do? He rallies a winless horrible Bucs team to a last minute clutch win in Pittsburgh. Surely he will be named the starter now right? Wrong. Lovie Smith goes back to McCown once he is ready to play despite Glennon looking better. Another side note to this season is there was no offensive coordinator. Lovie hired Jeff Tedford however he had a health issue and left the team during the preseason.
Glennon had his ups and downs the second season however the team was even worse than it was in his rookie season and he had no offensive coordinator. Lovie Smith is no QB guru either.
What was telling to me was the last game vs the Saints at the end of the 2014-15 season. The Bucs were intentionally tanking in the 2nd half to secure the #1 overall pick. They were winning so in the 2nd half they pulled most all of their starters, except one notable one, Josh McCown. I found it interesting that they put in the 2nd team offense however didn't throw Glennon in there. That spoke volumes to me being that they were purposely trying to lose.
With Winston being drafted overall #1 obviously Glennon was not going to even be a thought to start during his 3rd season. He's going to be given a true shot somewhere. It could be in Cleveland, it should be in Houston.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I appreciate the write up and the passion you seem to have for the player. Tampa made its choice having him in the fold and that choice was to go with another QB. I'd rather Houston make that choice as well and go after 'their guy' vs hoping that a backup on another team will somehow become something that he isnt currently. His interception rate in college even makes me think Tampa reached on the guy. He's had flashes, but so has Hoyer, Fitz, Schaub, Keenum, Yates, Savage, Mallet
Im kinda tired of flashes. I'd rather take the risk in the draft vs picking up another mediocre QB. Just my .002
Im kinda tired of flashes. I'd rather take the risk in the draft vs picking up another mediocre QB. Just my .002
I don't disagree with you. It's just this, I am a fan of the Bucs also (season ticket holder for the last 2 years since moving here) and have felt Glennon has been given a raw deal here. I was perfectly fine with them moving forward with Glennon after what I saw from his rookie season. However, Lovie decided to be stubborn and go with his "vet" causing the Bucs to have 2-14 season. With that horrible record the Bucs landed the #1 pick and had the chance to draft Winston. IMO you don't pass up the chance to draft a talent like Winston at QB. As much as I liked Glennon and wanted to see them move forward with him, once the opportunity to draft Winston came up I changed my tune.
However now, I see my Texans sitting out there with a team much more talented (on the defensive side) than the Bucs. All they need is a competent QB. I know Glennon and would be just as excited to see the Texans move forward with him. I KNOW he's better than anyone else the Texans have been trotting out there.
Sure, I hear you however unlike the Bucs of last off season the Texans won't be given the chance of drafting Winston this draft. What else do you propose that the Texans can do this off season to address the QB position that would bring in a better talent than Glennon?
Is there someone in the draft that you think would be a better option that will still be there when the Texans draft? Is there anyone else that the Texans might be able to sign? RGIII? Johnny Kegball? Josh McCown? Who?
Do you really have better realistic options for this off season? Do you prefer the Texans tank next season and do a "suck for best QB available in the upcoming draft" campaign?
Like I said before, obtain Glennon but keep your options open for that elusive franchise guy that everyone so covets. Who knows, that could end up being Glennon. If not, you are still better off than going back to the well with Hoyer or not if you preferred the "suck campaign".
BTW, trading for that young backup that was never given a chance doesn't always end bad. Just ask the Falcons, Packers and Brett Favre.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I really admire the passion HookEm, and Im not trying to turn a blind eye to what Glennon has done or can do, at least with a rookie there will be that optimism and hope. Backup QB's rarely become the difference makers that you've listed and allude to and its not really fair to bring up Hall of Famers in an attempt to strengthen the argument because for every 1 Brett Favre there are 20 Luke McCowns. Trust me as a life long Houston football fan I've seen the underdogs rise up in our franchises, but I just dont see this special skill set. I'll have to dive into more video if its available and give him more of a chance. I just find it interesting that with the number of clubs that need a competent signal caller nobody pulled the trigger as soon as Jameis was drafted. You'd figure Glennon was expendable at that very moment. If Tampa kept him for protection against injury then who's to say they're in a big rush to rid themselves of this above average backup QB?
If the Texans were to acquire Glennon then I'd feel that he'd be on a much shorter leash than a hand picked rookie. Not sure the fanbase would have the patience to allow Glennon that much leeway if he starts to falter. I feel he might be better suited going to a place where an aging QB is soon to retire, a year or two to assimilate and then take the reigns.
If the Texans were to acquire Glennon then I'd feel that he'd be on a much shorter leash than a hand picked rookie. Not sure the fanbase would have the patience to allow Glennon that much leeway if he starts to falter. I feel he might be better suited going to a place where an aging QB is soon to retire, a year or two to assimilate and then take the reigns.
According to the GM the Bucs received several inquiries about Glennon during last years draft. The Texans were rumored to have been one of those teams. The Bucs just didn't want to part with him until they knew what they were getting with Winston.
I don't really view Glennon as a typical backup. I see him more of a young developing QB that became a casualty of the coach that drafted him being fired. Before they had a chance to draft Winston they kept saying Glennon was the future and were giving him time to develop.
I think he's ready to start for someone. He's had 3 seasons to start a few games and observe the rest from the sidelines.
BTW, I just know a lot about his situation and have had time to post about it. I am not the president of his fan club or his agent (sorry if I am coming off that way).
If I am passionate about anything it's the Texans having a competent QB next season. I think he's the best option and if I had to wager I would say he ends up being the better option over RGIII. He took a lot of hits his rookie season, stayed poised and even more important doesn't appear to be injury prone like RGIII.
He's only 26 and been in the league just 3 years, only a year longer than Savage. Sure we all would like a flashy Caddy, or maybe a Ferrari, but they are very expensive.
Have you kicked the tires lately on what it costs to move up into the top 10 of the Draft if you are sitting on #22 ?
We may just have to go the non glamouras rout, the one's that undewhelming and kick a lot of tires befor we find our guy at QB.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
A well driven Mazda will beat a Ferrari.
Let's get the Mazda and stop relying on the Hyundai.
Let's get the Mazda and stop relying on the Hyundai.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Hyundai? We've had a f***ing Ford Pinto, a Geo Metro and a Yugo this past season.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I was being kind. I know it's rare and so hard to recognize.
And hey, my first car was a 72 Ford Pinto.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
If it was a snake it would have bit me...
I learned to drive in a 79 Mercury Bobcat. Same crappy car, nicer interior.
Number19
Hall of Fame
For 10 years from about 1978 to about 1988, the rotary RX-7 was literally unbeatable in its class. Finally the SCCA had had enough and bumped the RX-7 into the next higher class where it was competing against Porches, Corvettes and that class of autos. At that time there was three top notch Mazda racing teams and they were still capable of driving their cars to 3rd and 4th place finishes. I can't recall that they won any short races in this higher class, but in the long distance 24 hour endurance races, the RX-7 was still driven to wins. That rotary RX-7 was an outstanding and dominant racer in the 80's.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No and I pit crewed/raced 85-93.
Honda CRXs carried more speed thru corners.
They were a beotch if you were up against someone who could drive.
Honda CRXs carried more speed thru corners.
They were a beotch if you were up against someone who could drive.
Shishkabob
All Pro
so where are we putting Glennon in all of this? lol
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I view Glennon like Schaub. With the right driver...
Shishkabob
All Pro
thats what i see, might be a good starter nothing great though, might get lucky and make a pro bowl or get to the playoffs but will never be the cause of the team winning