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The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK & REPLACEMENT thread II

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infantrycak said:
Please explain. He took over a 9-7 team and has double digit wins once.
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Lol! Gary could have never won with the teams that Rex won with. Rex turned over a lot of the roster when he arrived. He went to two AFC championships with Sanchez, and might make the playoffs this season. Kubiak couldn't dream of making the playoffs with the current Jets team. This is an easy one.

infantrycak said:
I think his point is this is Sumlin's first year in a big time college conference and he has no NFL experience. Kubiak had 21 years of NFL coaching experience including 10 at OC.
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And the majority of Texans fans would all take Sumlin despite Kubiak's experience. Kubiak's experience is a poor resume. In many case a lack of a resume is better then a bad one. Not many people are buying into this illusion that Elway needed Gary to win SB's in Denver. He was leading his team to SB games before Kubiak ever started coaching. Elway made Shanahan and Kubiak.
 
Texecutioner said:
And the majority of Texans fans would all take Sumlin despite Kubiak's experience. Kubiak's experience is a poor resume.
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I would love Sumlin as head coach, that said how many times have "the sexy college coach" failed in the NFL?

Pete Carroll has made a comeback, but failed miserably in his first attempt, Al Groh? Not so much! I could go on and on, but to say Kubiak has a poor resume is asinine at best.

Come with a different argument and we'll talk, but again to say he has a "poor resume" is asinine and self-serving at best.

That said, I think the Texans need to move forward from both Smith and Kubiak.

*************

As an aside on a related issue, HOU-TEX there seems to be a dumpster
 
infantrycak said:
I think his point is this is Sumlin's first year in a big time college conference and he has no NFL experience. Kubiak had 21 years of NFL coaching experience including 10 at OC.
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This.

Texecutioner said:
And the majority of Texans fans would all take Sumlin despite Kubiak's experience. Kubiak's experience is a poor resume. In many case a lack of a resume is better then a bad one. Not many people are buying into this illusion that Elway needed Gary to win SB's in Denver. He was leading his team to SB games before Kubiak ever started coaching. Elway made Shanahan and Kubiak.
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NOW, yes. At the time of Kubiak's hiring, his resume was about all you could ask for from a guy who had not been a head coach. It was his time, and someone was going to give hima job. Sucks that it didn't work out, sucks worse that they extended him beyond 2010, but in 2006, it was a good hire.

As for the QB thing, Elway and Young were both obvious greats before Kubiak got ahold of them. But like it or not, both of those QBs had the best years of their career under Kubiak. Then he also made crappy QBs like Plummer and Griese look good. There are plenty of things to knock about Kubiak, but his work with QBs is not one of those things.

Anyway, not saying no way to the notion of Sumlin, but if you give me the 2005 resume of Kubiak and the 2013 resume of Sumlin, Kubiak's wins. Successful pro experience for Kubiak, for starters, and Sumlin's a bit of a job hopper. Just my preference.
 
eriadoc said:
As for the QB thing, Elway and Young were both obvious greats before Kubiak got ahold of them. But like it or not, both of those QBs had the best years of their career under Kubiak.
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To expand on this a bit. It isn't just an observation of stats. Both those guys have vigorously lauded Kubiak and stated he was key to their best seasons.

Somewhat related note, Young spoke about Kubiak a couple weeks ago and the assertion Kubiak is a conservative play caller. He basically threw Schaub under the bus. He said that is completely wrong and anyone who has been a QB around him knows it is false but he recognizes the traits of each QB and works with what they can do.
 
infantrycak said:
To expand on this a bit. It isn't just an observation of stats. Both those guys have vigorously lauded Kubiak and stated he was key to their best seasons.

Somewhat related note, Young spoke about Kubiak a couple weeks ago and the assertion Kubiak is a conservative play caller. He basically threw Schaub under the bus. He said that is completely wrong and anyone who has been a QB around him knows it is false but he recognizes the traits of each QB and works with what they can do.
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It's regrettable that he spent all this time in Houston trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Now he finally gets a real opportunity in Keenum, and he won't be able to take advantage of it.
 
Hervoyel said:
I've always thought Del Rio was a turd.
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This falls squarely in the WTF column of the anyone but Kubiak crowd. You would be replacing an 8 year coach because he only has 2 playoff appearances with 2 playoff wins for a turd who in 9 years has 2 playoff appearances with 1 playoff win.
 
infantrycak said:
This falls squarely in the WTF column of the anyone but Kubiak crowd. You would be replacing an 8 year coach because he only has 2 playoff appearances with 2 playoff wins for a turd who in 9 years has 2 playoff appearances with 1 playoff win.
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Yeah. I agree. I think that a lot of people have Belichick after he left Cleveland or Coughlin after he left Jacksonville in mind when suggestions come up like this.

Most of the head coaches that don't work out don't go on to do great things (at least I don't think they do).
 
Hervoyel said:
I have a question. Is it time for Rob Ryan to get a chance to be HC?

I'm not for him or against him. I'm just wondering. Thinking out loud if you will.
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I would entertain it MAYBE if he cut his hair. If he keeps the hair he can stay in NO.
 
589_1384463849.jpg
 
Hervoyel said:
You know what though? It's a pretty common misconception. I was about to respond to DX-TEX with something like "Well, lets look at the numbers..." and I went to Pro Football Reference and found that he's pretty much a .500 coach just like his father.

I'd really always assumed he was more successful than that (and that Buddy Ryan had been more successful than that too).

I don't know that it means that Rob (Rob? Rex? I get them confused) Ryan would also be a .500 coach but I guess it does tend to make that seem likely since they're all out of the same coaching tree and a lot alike.
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That may be so, but he took Mark Sanchez to the AFC Championship game twice. He also beat the Patriots once for the division title (I'm not sure if that was the year Brady was hurt or not).

I'm not a big fan of Rex (yet) but if he can make something out of the Jets (which looks like their back on their way up) I may have to change my mind.
 
infantrycak said:
To expand on this a bit. It isn't just an observation of stats. Both those guys have vigorously lauded Kubiak and stated he was key to their best seasons.

Somewhat related note, Young spoke about Kubiak a couple weeks ago and the assertion Kubiak is a conservative play caller. He basically threw Schaub under the bus. He said that is completely wrong and anyone who has been a QB around him knows it is false but he recognizes the traits of each QB and works with what they can do.
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yep. And beyond all of the above, there is also this little nugget:

Early in the week, Spurrier resorted to asking advice from another head coach, Denver Broncos’ Mike Shanahan. Spurrier, portrayed by many as arrogant when it comes to his offense, wanted to know how Shanahan handled play-calling duties with Broncos’ offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak.

When Shanahan told Spurrier that the Broncos immediately won two Super Bowls when Kubiak took over calling plays, the second-year Redskins’ coach didn’t need any more convincing.

From the article: Coles Saves the Redskins - Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - By Michael N. Graff, The Winchester Star
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There isn't a single coach out there that everyone on this board is going to love the hiring of. If it's a college coach, some people are going to hate the lack of NFL experience. If it's a coordinator, some people are going to hate it because of the lack of head coaching experience. If it's a guy with head coaching experience, people are going to bring up whatever got him fired from his last job.

And everyone wants a coach who's already won a SB but... no coach who has won a Super Bowl with one team has gone to another team and won another Super Bowl. Most SB winning coaches go to other teams and fail pretty badly although a few have done OK. Parcells and Vermiel have arguably done the best.

People bring up Bill Cowher. I like Bill Cowher as a person. As the coach of the Texans? Not so much. He didn't win a SB until his 14th season. FOURTEEN seasons. He had a huge reputation as a guy who didn't coach well in big games but people forget that. And then add in the whole thing about SB coaches not being able to do it again with another team and it's a big 'NO' for me.

Same with Gruden.

So any person we hire as our new HC will be a total and complete crap-shoot. Their previous experience and NFL vs. College all of that is pretty much meaningless. There are no sure-fire, going to bring us a SB coaches out there because they don't exist.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
There isn't a single coach out there that everyone on this board is going to love the hiring of. If it's a college coach, some people are going to hate the lack of NFL experience. If it's a coordinator, some people are going to hate it because of the lack of head coaching experience. If it's a guy with head coaching experience, people are going to bring up whatever got him fired from his last job.

And everyone wants a coach who's already won a SB but... no coach who has won a Super Bowl with one team has gone to another team and won another Super Bowl. Most SB winning coaches go to other teams and fail pretty badly although a few have done OK. Parcells and Vermiel have arguably done the best.

People bring up Bill Cowher. I like Bill Cowher as a person. As the coach of the Texans? Not so much. He didn't win a SB until his 14th season. FOURTEEN seasons. He had a huge reputation as a guy who didn't coach well in big games but people forget that. And then add in the whole thing about SB coaches not being able to do it again with another team and it's a big 'NO' for me.

Same with Gruden.

So any person we hire as our new HC will be a total and complete crap-shoot. Their previous experience and NFL vs. College all of that is pretty much meaningless. There are no sure-fire, going to bring us a SB coaches out there because they don't exist.
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agreed. the best coach will be the one that fits our players with a scheme that works for them.....not force the players to fit their scheme
 
The Pencil Neck said:
People bring up Bill Cowher. I like Bill Cowher as a person. As the coach of the Texans? Not so much. He didn't win a SB until his 14th season. FOURTEEN seasons. He had a huge reputation as a guy who didn't coach well in big games but people forget that. And then add in the whole thing about SB coaches not being able to do it again with another team and it's a big 'NO' for me.
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While true about Cowher, let's also not forget he only had 3 losing seasons in 15 years.

In that 15 seasons, the Steelers went to the playoffs 10 times. Lost a Super Bowl by his fourth year. 8 division titles.

The one stat that blows my mind: Through the Super Bowl, Cowher's team had compiled a record of 108–1–1 in games in which they built a lead of at least eleven points.

Maybe the game has passed him by, who knows. But I'd take that chance if he really wanted to get back into coaching.

The thing about a guy like Cowher is his connections. He could bring in some top coordinators and position coaches. And I have no doubt that players would want to come here to play for him.

I think he's done with coaching, though, so I have no hopes about it. But, fans can dream...
 
The Pencil Neck said:
People bring up Bill Cowher. I like Bill Cowher as a person. As the coach of the Texans? Not so much. He didn't win a SB until his 14th season. FOURTEEN seasons. He had a huge reputation as a guy who didn't coach well in big games but people forget that. And then add in the whole thing about SB coaches not being able to do it again with another team and it's a big 'NO' for me.

Same with Gruden.
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My thing about Cowher & Gruden.... they'd have been coaching 5 years ago if they wanted to. But they didn't want to. I don't want our club to be their little play-thing to figure out if they've still got the heart to put in what it takes... what they know it takes to be a HC in the NFL.
 
If they make a switch, my preferences run to either a college HC of more than 2 years from a significant conference or an NFL coordinator - either way coming into their 1st NFL HC position. Prefer an offensive guy to defense. Wouldn't completely rule out NFL retread HCs but not top of my list.

With that in mind I would hope they would talk to:

David Shaw - has a recent contract extension.
Greg Roman
Pep Hamilton - light on experience.
Pete Carmichael, Jr. - not sure how much of a Kubiak situation he may be in with Payton.
Charlie Strong - also has a recent contract extension.
 
infantrycak said:
With that in mind I would hope they would talk to:

David Shaw - has a recent contract extension.
Greg Roman
Pep Hamilton - light on experience.
Pete Carmichael, Jr. - not sure how much of a Kubiak situation he may be in with Payton.
Charlie Strong - also has a recent contract extension.
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Not a bad list.... however, I don't know if I'd be too interested in Carmichael. Like you said (I think) if he's in a Rick Dennison roll, which I'd think he was, I'd like to see him somewhere else before giving him a head coaching job.

Jay Gruden.... that's a guy I'd be interested in. Or even better....

Mike_Zimmer_Bobby_Petrino_Gutless_MF.jpg


He's a defensive guy, but I think it's been a long time coming.
 
Double Barrel said:
yep. And beyond all of the above, there is also this little nugget:
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I really can't believe you guys still hang onto this stuff. Shanhan's reputation around the league amongst most fans isn't a good one as it is. Elway made Shanahan, and if he didn't walk onto a team with Elway Shanahan would just be another average OC out there along with this sad excuse for a HC that we currently have. Shanahan hasn't done squat since Elway left that team other than having one team that went to an AFC championship that quickly fizzled after that. Kubiak's play calling has proven to be one of the worst in the league for years. Hell, I've outlined numerous play calling decisions that have cost the team a playoff birth in previous seasons and he still makes those same mistakes now and hasn't learned from them. We're right back to being on the same boat with the Jags, the Raiders, and the Bills. It's just a few Texans fans out here in this city that refuse to acknowledge it. We're back to being a joke, and we can thank Mcnair, Kubiak, and Smith for that. But Kubiak's play calling is pretty much a circus act at this point. His Denny's poster might as well say Barnum & Bailey's Circus on it.

Double Barrel said:
While true about Cowher, let's also not forget he only had 3 losing seasons in 15 years.

In that 15 seasons, the Steelers went to the playoffs 10 times. Lost a Super Bowl by his fourth year. 8 division titles.

The one stat that blows my mind: Through the Super Bowl, Cowher's team had compiled a record of 108–1–1 in games in which they built a lead of at least eleven points.

Maybe the game has passed him by, who knows. But I'd take that chance if he really wanted to get back into coaching.

The thing about a guy like Cowher is his connections. He could bring in some top coordinators and position coaches. And I have no doubt that players would want to come here to play for him.

I think he's done with coaching, though, so I have no hopes about it. But, fans can dream...
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I'm not as high on Cowher as I was before since it's been so many years as well. However, if we went in that direction I'd quickly come around to it I assume. All of those reasons you mentioned above are a big reason why. It's not like Cowher's been living in Alaska and fishing and hunting all of this time. Hell, the guy's been heavily involved with the NFL and the sport ever since he retired, so I doubt any NFL game has passed him by. It just makes me a little less excited about him since it's been so long.
 
Interesting article on BYU's head coach Bronco Mendenhall, from 2012 (before Ansah was drafted very highly in 2013):

Is BYU's Mendenhall anti-NFL? No, just cautious and realistic


It appears BYU football coach Bronco Mendenhall ruffled a few feathers the other day -- he's never done that before, right? -- while talking to a group of youth football coaches at Alta High. My buddy at the Provo Daily Herald, Jason Franchuk, reported on the comments in which Mendenhall basically reminded the coaches that making it to the NFL often isn't all it is cracked up to be. I would provide a link, but I can't find it on the Herald's website.

Is Mendenhall anti-NFL? No, but he probably doesn't push it to his players as a career path as much as most coaches, from what I have seen and heard.
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At BYU's football media day in June, a couple months removed from the NFL draft in which even All-American tackle Matt Reynolds went undrafted, I asked Mendenhall if he was concerned that other schools could use BYU's draft drought against the Cougars in recruiting.

His answer:

"People will do anything they can in recruiting to attack, or expose an area where they might have an upper hand, whether it is real or not. Five players from our team this year had a chance to go to the NFL. Excluding the first two rounds, I actually think, maybe the first three rounds -- I will rephrase that. If you don't go in the first two for sure, I question the third, it is almost better for them to have a chance to be a free agent because the team that then takes you has a specific need for you, really wants you. So we had five players that had a chance this year. Five is still five.

The players that are drafted, it is an interesting thing. The NFL commissioner asked us as coaches to pass on this statistic -- you can verify this with them. But for players that make it three years or longer in the NFL, 70 percent of those players have all of the following: they are bankrupt, divorced, a substance abuser and disabled. So these kids, if that is their dream or aspiration, they need to go in with their eyes wide open. Our focus, absolutely I want them to be in the NFL. But then I want them to be in the 30 percent that then does make it. If they aren't, they will have a great education, they will have a great background in moral standing to really be successful.

The bottom line is when players play truly to their ability, and have the ability to make it, no matter what school they are currently at, they will play in the NFL. Our focus here is fantastic football with everything else, not in place of football. ... If that costs us a draft pick or two, that's an easy choice for me. That doesn't mean it can't happen here. History has shown, even in my era, that we can put them there. But that's a fair question, I think."

Someone also asked Mendenhall if the professional visits that he and other coaches were making during the summer to NFL teams -- such as the Houston Texans -- are a way to develop relationships with pro clubs so they would be more familiar with BYU players.

Not really, he said.

"Not so important in that capacity. We have a great idea of what will get them there. I am anxious when we go there to more see if there is anything they are currently doing organizationally, or within the drill work, within their teaching, within strength [development], within medical care, within film breakdown. Anything that we can glean that might be helpful that we can bring back and put into our program."
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Been paying attention to him for a little while, and I think he'd make a good coordinator in the NFL. He seems to have the type of character that would sit well in any locker room, and his college programs have done well at every stop.
 
eriadoc said:
Been paying attention to him for a little while, and I think he'd make a good coordinator in the NFL. He seems to have the type of character that would sit well in any locker room, and his college programs have done well at every stop.
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Cool article........ MSR
 
eriadoc said:
Is BYU's Mendenhall anti-NFL? No, just cautious and realistic


"The NFL commissioner asked us as coaches to pass on this statistic -- you can verify this with them. But for players that make it three years or longer in the NFL, 70 percent of those players have all of the following: they are bankrupt, divorced, a substance abuser and disabled."
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Off-topic slightly, but this quote in the article just seemed so unbelievable to me when I read it. If it were true that 70 percent of every roster in the NFL was bankrupt, disabled, divorced, AND a substance abuser, you can bet we would all know that by now.

Sure enough, the NFL says it is not accurate:

Per the NFL, compared to the general population NFL alumni are actually more likely to be married, have a higher income, and are less likely to be depressed. They're basing the numbers on a study done by the University of Michigan and I'm unsure of , but if nothing else, to say the NFL told him to pass those bogus numbers along is pretty strange.

Nothing against Bronco, but plenty against a columnist who allowed that quote to slide into the article unchallenged. That there is some lazy writing.

That number may have originated in this 2006 article by USA today, citing Ken Ruettgers as the source. (Ruettgers' website does offer some pretty awful numbers about NFL retirement, by the way...especially suicide rates.) But the qualifier is the use of the word "OR" instead of the "AND" used by Mendenhall ("all of the following").

So anyway: interesting guy, lousy columnist, and Bronco's not on my short list for candidates in Houston. Speaking of stuff from 2006, that was the last time Bill Cowher coached in the NFL. So he's not on my short list either.
 
Texan_Bill said:
I would love Sumlin as head coach, that said how many times have "the sexy college coach" failed in the NFL?

Pete Carroll has made a comeback, but failed miserably in his first attempt, Al Groh? Not so much! I could go on and on, but to say Kubiak has a poor resume is asinine at best.

Come with a different argument and we'll talk, but again to say he has a "poor resume" is asinine and self-serving at best.

That said, I think the Texans need to move forward from both Smith and Kubiak.

*************

As an aside on a related issue, HOU-TEX there seems to be a dumpster
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Dude, Kubiak's resume sucks miserably. He has been to the playoffs twice in 8 years. He would have been out of a job 3 years ago if it wasn't for our owner that is terrified of hiring new coaches. The fight to prove that Kubiak isn't some ****ty coordinator that is a HC for all the wrong reasons was lost years ago. Now it's just more of a running joke that is Houston football. It's not even worth getting mad over at this point. It's just comical stuff.

Elway and Young were great QB's before Kubiak ever became involved. Hell, they would have probably been even better KUbiak wasn't involved.
 
just like schaub, pubiak has lost the locker room and the city of houston.

this team is a mess everywhere.

playcalling
discipline
defense
etc. etc. etc.

keep watt, give him WHATEVER he wants and get rid of everybody and rebuild.
 
I frankly do want him fired but the gapping hole at play calling (despite like others being impressed at Rick Dennison's on the side line yelling at them after a bad series) at offensive play calling.

That being said, this team is self destructing due to his lackluster leadership and overall bull crap. If today's game which even with Keenum in was a return to his conservative small yardage passing to TEs/RBs or slot receivers targeting play calling that made many call our offense predictable before Keenum started at KC. If this is the best he can do then we might as well fire Kubiak now unless we are targeting that #1 NFL draft pick again.
 
McNair better be calling Gruden to take over the offense and Lovie Smith for head coach. :dancer:
 
santo said:
McNair better be calling Gruden to take over the offense and Lovie Smith for head coach. :dancer:
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Something needs to be done but I don't like that answer at all. I don't know what the answer is and I don't envy McNair's position. Whatever he does it's not going to please everyone. I can't wait to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth when/if he does clean house.
 
I dont know who is the commentator with Kalu but he just called it. Said everything with Case and Kubiak was smoke and mirrors. Nice to hear the media finally call it.

I wonder if Kubiak called the best plays for Case...

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
 
McNair Recommended Plan:

Phase I: (this week to end of season)
- Fire Kubiak (Monday) and place Phillips in Interim HC Role
- Release Schaub (I know this costs money, but its a move a leader has to make)
- Undertake a complete evaluation of Rick Smith and all current coaches for the rest of this season (I'd fire them all, but this is a McNair plan)
- Begin review of available pro HC candidates, College HC candidates and pro Coordinators who have had HC experience

Phase II: (after season)
- Hire new GM and HC by Jan 14
- Let them evaluate current personnel and prepare for draft and FA
- Throw a bone to the fans and lower ticket prices by 5-10%

Mr. McNair we have to make some radical changes (see KC Chiefs) to get this turned around. GK and RS are nice guys, but you know what they say about nice guys. We need to change this team's attitude and atmosphere or we'll continue to be mediocre.

A lifelong Houston Pro-Football fan.
 
Rumblings are coming out that Kubiak didn't decide to start Keenum against Indy. It was a front office decision. And he was told he would be fired if Oakland won.
 
djohn2oo8 said:
Rumblings are coming out that Kubiak didn't decide to start Keenum against Indy. It was a front office decision. And he was told he would be fired if Oakland won.
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If this is accurate, I think it's the humane thing to do for the team and GK. Time to move on for all of us.
 
djohn2oo8 said:
Rumblings are coming out that Kubiak didn't decide to start Keenum against Indy. It was a front office decision. And he was told he would be fired if Oakland won.
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God, I hope this is true! Kubiak being gone tonight would be awesome...
 
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