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The all encompassing DW4 good plays thread

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
It would be easier for me to believe Watson is the QB we need to bring us out of mediocrity (Rivers & Chargers, Stafford & Lions) if our end result in our worst years were like Wilson, Rodgers.

Has Roethlisberger ever lose 11 games?

Yes, winning tomorrow would make me feel a lot better.
I'd take the win if Watson and Watt were on the sidelines. This is a zero game for the Texans. Imagine if the Texans won but lost both Watson and Watt for the 2021 season.....how many high fives are being thrown b/c the Texans finished with a 5-11 season?
 
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OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
In the history of the game, which elite QB lost 11 games?

Aikman, Peyton... who else?
The fact that there are some who have already set the precedent, tells me one thing.....Watson won't be the 4th and he certainly won't be the last. Texans need to fix this shite-show and anyone in possession of some common sense would know, the fix doesn't start with Watson.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Looking at Rodgers' 6-10 season, he threw for 4000 yards, he had two WRs with 1000 yards, a 1200 yard rusher, a top 5 scoring offense and a better defense than the Texans and still only won one more game. Go figure.
If we win tomorrow, yes. That would go a long way building the legend of Watson.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'd take the win if Watson and Watt were on the sidelines. This is a zero game for the Texans. Imagine if the Texans won but lost both Watson and Watt for the 2021 season.....how many high fives are being thrown so the Texans have a 5-11 season?
If Watson & Watt doesn't play tomorrow the stink from the owners box is too much to overcome.

You either play to win in every situation whatever the situation because that is who you are, or you don't because you're not.

If they're not playing, look no further for the reason we have not been in an AFCCG & won't be for a long time
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
If Watson & Watt doesn't play tomorrow the stink from the owners box is too much to overcome.

You either play to win in every situation whatever the situation because that is who you are, or you don't because you're not.

If they're not playing, look no further for the reason we have not been in an AFCCG & won't be for a long time
Look at the second part of my post.....that situation happens a lot in NFL games. The Texans are playing game 16 with nothing on the line. They have nothing to gain and a whole 2021 season to lose....for what?
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I'd take the win if Watson and Watt were on the sidelines. This is a zero game for the Texans. Imagine if the Texans won but lost both Watson and Watt for the 2021 season.....how many high fives are being thrown so the Texans have a 5-11 season?
Hey lol I’m rebuking that thought out of our minds right now.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
As mentioned previously. This is the DW4 all encompassing good plays. Not the "OL made a good block" thread. As a result, when he makes a play and it involved escaping a sack, the OL will get highlighted for their missed block. It's not an agenda or false narrative. Start an all encompassing good OL block thread and I will gladly highlight their good blocks.

The OL is a terrible run blocking unit and they are an inconsistent pass blocking unit. You are still caught up in the 2019 narrative. They have actually done a better job in 2020 with the pre-snap reads. They struggle with stunts. They struggle passing off defenders. To often they are getting beat off the ball. Too often they are getting beat by 3 and 4 man pass rushes. Too often they are getting beat by delayed blitzes. That is more than an anomaly. It's happening every game.

You blame Watson for holding the ball and contributing to sacks totals but then give the OL kudos for the low sacks per game average while ignoring the number of sacks he avoids. Yes, at times, Watson holds the ball too long. But guess what? So do many other QBs. It's been posted multiple times, how frequently he checks down, that gets ignored. For years we have complained about the slow developing routes in this offense, but then we blame the QB for holding the ball. At what point do you blame poor coaching? Why isn't the OC recognizing that his QB is holding the ball or the OL is struggling with a defensive front and adjust the game plan accordingly? It's common sense, right? So, why don't we see quick passing in the game plan more frequently? We see it from time to time, but the game plan offense doesn't incorporate it every game. In your world, getting the ball out quickly is totally on Watson and not a shared problem between QB and OC.

When it comes to Hopkin's YAC. It's disingenuous to blame Watson's accuracy for his low YAC while ignoring the routes he was running in this offense or the increase in the number of snaps he played in the slot. Look at how the Cardinals are using Hopkins compared to O'Brien and that should explain the low YAC. If you're going to blame Watson for the lack of YAC in this offense, you should look at the YAC before he was drafted? I bet you will find low YAC is a "feature" of this ED offense.

Finally, a running game is a basic and fundamental component of any good offense. It's low hanging fruit. You know the quickest, cheapest way to make any OL, defense, QB or OC better? COACH a better running game! Their inability to run the ball in 2020 is the number one issue with sustaining drives. I've never seen a team that consistently struggle running the ball in short yardage situations. Yet, the Texans have failed to consistently utilized the RBs in the short passing game to supplement the inefficient running game. If you're going to say Watson is responsible for not sustaining drives, why don't we analyze 3rd and short conversion rate or run/pass ratio on 3rd and short?

So my point in this ridiculously long post is that when it comes to discussing this team, there is an unnecessary rush to blame Watson while disingenuously or conveniently ignoring the team wide issues. For me, the offensive issues starts with coaching, then OL and then we can get to QB and RBs. For you and many others, it starts with the QB. If that makes me disingenuous for pointing that out, so be it.
I guess since he’s the quarterback, best player on this team as well as the highest paid, is their reasoning. I thinks it a cop out/ lazy journalism. But then again there’s pure hate.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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I completely agree. But here we are.

I’m not blaming Watson. Some believe that’s what I’m saying because they are hyper sensitive.

I’m just comparing him to his peers, same way we say he’s in this group with Brady, that group with Wilson, or on this list with Rodgers.

The rest of the team doesn’t matter when we make those comparisons.

But when I point out that you have to go back to Elway or Aikman to find an elite QB that lost 11 games all of a sudden nothing is more relevant.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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amazing80

Fire Easterby
I completely agree. But here we are.

I’m not blaming Watson. Some believe that’s what I’m saying because they are hyper sensitive.

I’m just comparing him to his peers, same way we say he’s in this group with Brady, that group with Wilson, or on this list with Rodgers.

The rest of the team doesn’t matter when we make those comparisons.

But when I point out that you have to go back to Elway or Aikman to find an elite QB that lost 11 games all of a sudden nothing is more relevant.
You’re splitting hairs. Rodgers has had two terrible losing seasons in the past 10 years. I’ll do some research into losing seasons with franchise qb level play and see what we get.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I completely agree. But here we are.

I’m not blaming Watson. Some believe that’s what I’m saying because they are hyper sensitive.

I’m just comparing him to his peers, same way we say he’s in this group with Brady, that group with Wilson, or on this list with Rodgers.

The rest of the team doesn’t matter when we make those comparisons.

But when I point out that you have to go back to Elway or Aikman to find an elite QB that lost 11 games all of a sudden nothing is more relevant.
Nobody is being hyper sensitive lol. Why do y’all do that on here? My thing is if you agree then why are you typing the things that you’re typing? What’s the true purpose? I’m just trying to get a clear understanding.
 
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amazing80

Fire Easterby
a second stab at this. I hope he performs this well, when he doesn’t have to.

you know what I’m talking about. The Texans are notorious for playing down to their competition. Next year when the team is better, I hope Watson goes black mamba on the league. Cold blooded killer.
Rodgers had a bad year in 2018 and got his coach fired. Two years later and they are super bowl contenders.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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You’re splitting hairs.
Absolutely. Which is why I need Watson to win tomorrow.

I admit the only reason we’ve won in 2020 is Watson. Take him off this team & Miami gets the #1 overall pick.

So if he’s the only reason we’re winning, where is the bar for elite QBs winning on bad teams? Seems to me it’s set at six.

If Watson misses by one win, that’s one thing. By two, that’s something else entirely.


What’s the true purpose?
Truth.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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When doing a comparison like that you have to factor in everything. Not just the quarterback play.
Well... why?


I’m just comparing him to his peers, same way we say he’s in this group with Brady, that group with Wilson, or on this list with Rodgers.

The rest of the team doesn’t matter when we make those comparisons.

But when I point out that you have to go back to Elway or Aikman to find an elite QB that lost 11 games all of a sudden nothing is more relevant.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I completely agree. But here we are.

I’m not blaming Watson. Some believe that’s what I’m saying because they are hyper sensitive.

I’m just comparing him to his peers, same way we say he’s in this group with Brady, that group with Wilson, or on this list with Rodgers.

The rest of the team doesn’t matter when we make those comparisons.

But when I point out that you have to go back to Elway or Aikman to find an elite QB that lost 11 games all of a sudden nothing is more relevant.
Correct, it seems we have been comparing the individuals versus the overall teams. We should know that most of these guys are only as good as the team they're surrounded by. I've never seen a great QB take a shite-hole of a team to the Super Bowl.....but I've seen many very good teams take a mediocre QB to the Super Bowl.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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In 2003 Drew Brees was 2-9

not to mention all the mediocre years of 7-9 and 8-8. Just another trash qb I guess
Are you saying Rivers, Ryan, Prescott, & Stafford are trash? I’m saying Watson is like those guys. JAG with killer stats. Not necessarily trash. You can win with him, but like @Texansballer74 says. Everything else has to be perfect.

Kinda like the Bill O’Brien of offensive coordinators. He needs 4 All-pros & 7 Pro-Bowlers to field a competent offense.
 
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amazing80

Fire Easterby
Are you saying Rivers, Ryan, Prescott, & Stafford are trash? I’m saying Watson is like those guys. JAG with killer stats. Not necessarily trash. You can win with him, but like @Texansballer74 says. Everything else has to be perfect.

Kinda like the Bill O’Brien of offensive coordinators. He needs 4 All-pros & 9 Pro-Bowlers to field a competent offense.
I’ve listed HOF players who have had bad seasons when their team is terrible. If you choose to ignore it to push an agenda, thats on you.
 

amazing80

Fire Easterby
Are you saying Rivers, Ryan, Prescott, & Stafford are trash? I’m saying Watson is like those guys. JAG with killer stats. Not necessarily trash. You can win with him, but like @Texansballer74 says. Everything else has to be perfect.

Kinda like the Bill O’Brien of offensive coordinators. He needs 4 All-pros & 9 Pro-Bowlers to field a competent offense.
I know you like to play devils advocate to keep conversation moving. But this game is stupid.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Correct, it seems we have been comparing the individuals versus the overall teams. We should know that most of these guys are only as good as the team they're surrounded by. I've never seen a great QB take a shite-hole of a team to the Super Bowl.....but I've seen many very good teams take a mediocre QB to the Super Bowl.
We’re almost on the same page. I’m not talking about a QB dragging a shot team to the Super Bowl. I’m talking about how far does a shot organization drag down an elite QB?

The Saints were a horribly run organization before Payton. They still are, but Payton & Brees have elevated them to relevant contenders.

The Packers were a terrible organization after Starr. They found Favre & had a good run. They found Rodgers & kept it going.

Justin Herbert looks like the truth. Will they return to relevance? Is Herbert their Mahomes (Rivers being Alex Smith).

so by looking at the floor we can see who we have. Rivers, not Manning. & know we’re going to need a Jimmy Johnson to win a Super Bowl here.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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I’ve listed HOF players who have had bad seasons when their team is terrible. If you choose to ignore it to push an agenda, thats on you.
No agenda, you called Brees a trash QB. I never did. Just like I didn’t call Watson trash for losing 11 games. My whole argument is he’s closer to Rivers than Brady. I don’t think Rivers is a trash QB.

He needs help to win a Super Bowl. Just to bring a team to relevance. More help than Rodgers needs. He’s going to need a HOF coach, like Brees & Favre
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Are you saying Rivers, Ryan, Prescott, & Stafford are trash? I’m saying Watson is like those guys. JAG with killer stats. Not necessarily trash. You can win with him, but like @Texansballer74 says. Everything else has to be perfect.

Kinda like the Bill O’Brien of offensive coordinators. He needs 4 All-pros & 7 Pro-Bowlers to field a competent offense.
I never said perfect, it can not be ultimate trash all around said QB, starting from the head of the organization to the water boy.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Luckily, PFF grades ball placement. So it's not like we have to rely on Corrosion's eyes and recollection when PFF has an analysis of all 505 passing attempts.

YAC can be a function of QB ball placement but not necessarily so. Tom Brady's receivers actually have fewer YAC than Watson's this season. If the screen pass is a big part of an OC's playcalling, then a team will have more YAC. This is why the Rams rank 2nd in the NFL in YAC. A lot of the time YAC is not a result of a super accurate throw but rather a well-designed and executed screen play where a shifty running back or receiver makes something happen. Or it could be a shifty tight end that is hard to bring down (i.e., Kelce and Gronk).

In essence, you're making an inference from YAC that has *some* correlation with accuracy but a very loose one. Unless we're all ready to concede that whoever SF has under center right now is the 3rd most accurate QB in the NFL.
To your point. In the Hopkins' thread, I posted how the Cardinals have improved Hopkins' YAC by the way they use him in the offense by throwing shorter passes and WR screens. Also, after his 3rd season in 2015, Hopkins was ranked 118th. But Watson's inaccuracy is suppose to be the reason that he was ranked 25th in 2019? SMDH.

Here is an article from 2016 about Hopkins and YAC. Last time I checked, I think Watson was still at Clemson. So, this has always been an issue with O'Brien's ED offense.
DeAndre Hopkins wants to fix his YAC 'problem' (nfl.com)
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame

4823 yards, 33 touchdowns and 7 interceptions

Not to shabby for a young quarterback who didn’t have a running game, losing his best receiver through trade, his new number one getting suspended for the last 5 games and the HC/GM/OC getting canned after 4 games.
 

amazing80

Fire Easterby

4823 yards, 33 touchdowns and 7 interceptions

Not to shabby for a young quarterback who didn’t have a running game, losing his best receiver through trade, his new number one getting suspended for the last 5 games and the HC/GM/OC getting canned after 4 games.
Not bad for a guy who can’t read defenses.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think stats are important and these type sites have their place. What these sites stats dont tell you are the very important things like how you start and finish games. Can you pick up a 3rd and 2 by running the ball with 2:30 left in the game and put the game away. Can the ST's turn field postion/make a FG in the 3rd qtr that allows you a chance to win if you're behind or be up by 2 scores late in the game which puts the oher team in a panic position.

Can the defense get a stop to get you the ball back and give you a chance to win the game late in the 4th qtr. Can the defense make a stop with a lead and 1:00 to go in the game. These are the kinds of things the stat/DVOA geeks dont seem to get. There's much more to the game of football than a bunch of stats.

For all of the scheme talk/strategy/coaching this sometimes comes down to when you're dogazz tired late in the 4th qtr can you physically kick the guy across from you azz.
Obviously the Texans failed at these things yesterday.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club

4823 yards, 33 touchdowns and 7 interceptions

Not to shabby for a young quarterback who didn’t have a running game, losing his best receiver through trade, his new number one getting suspended for the last 5 games and the HC/GM/OC getting canned after 4 games.
He played well, as expected yesterday.

When does he become not a young QB, yr5, yr 10?
 

amazing80

Fire Easterby
He played well, as expected yesterday.

When does he become not a young QB, yr5, yr 10?
What exactly do you want him to be better at? Accuracy (70%), yards (almost 5k), TDs, (over 30), INTs (less than 10)? Some of you keep saying he needs to improve, on what exactly? Do not say wins, because he is not in sole control of wins, evidence yesterday when the defense **** the bed, yet again.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What exactly do you want him to be better at? Accuracy (70%), yards (almost 5k), TDs, (over 30), INTs (less than 10)? Some of you keep saying he needs to improve, on what exactly? Do not say wins, because he is not in sole control of wins, evidence yesterday when the defense **** the bed, yet again.
Things I've listed many times.

Even things I listed in yesterday's gameday thread.

Are you saying that he doesn't have things to improve on.
 


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