Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

The all encompassing DW4 good plays thread

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
BUT he needs to improve... simply stated. If you don't want to admit that and say he is top of all QBs...fine.
Start a list of names, posters here saying DW4 doesn’t need to improve.

The problem most of us have is with those saying he can’t or he won’t.

as far as being a top QB, are you saying none of the top QBs need to improve?

I know Steel it's bad when you can show proof of something and it is looked at and somehow altered.
The thing to understand, when you’re looking through rose colored glasses things will look one way. When you look through broken glasses, they’ll look another way.

on its own, the stats you presented don’t support your premise. There are a number of reasons that could explain those numbers.


I’ll give you the rest of the day to tell me what steelbtexan says Watson needs to but can’t improve. What maverick says DW4 needs to improve. What Corrosion says he needs to improve.

All different. Some have merit some don’t. So far, your, “hasn’t improved since his scouting report” needs more data. & this can’t beat man 2... I just don’t see it.

But even if it is an issue, I’m confident he’ll fix it.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I know Steel it's bad when you can show proof of something and it is looked at and somehow altered. That was a 3 or 4 game stretch I posted. Cover 2 man is not zone based, if you played football you know that. And Ds only ran cover 2 man 20% of the time. Making 15 passes in 3-4 games a pretty good idea that he is not been able to ID when he is playing against it.

All I can say is that I like the kid and hope he improves with his new QB coach. Because he only slightly has on his own merit. I want him to succeed (we all do even if you hate him) he is the QB of OUR team. But rose colored glasses and koolaid go a long way it seems.

I would like to see JJ play a bit more from a 2pt stance as I feel it is a weakness. Now let's see if anyone makes a comment about that. Because I have already said I don't cut players slack. I don't know why some do. I would die laughing IF a new HC traded (insert big name) player. And the replacement out played the guy they replaced. Seeing most likely members would not be able to admit they are wrong in anyway. I have said and I will say it again I wanted Watson, I like him and think he is a good player. BUT he needs to improve... simply stated. If you don't want to admit that and say he is top of all QBs...fine. Seeing I have no problem saying I was wrong. The ones saying he is perfect I doubt will ever admit it if he isn't.
Spot On post

I want DW4 to succeed and the Texans org to succeed. Some posters say I hate DW4 and that's furthest from the Truth. I've been to every home game they've played since 2003 unless a game fell on Christmas Eve or the Atlanta game when I went to Conneticut to see my son. Yrs ago I missed a Texans/Raiders game because I had a bad case of the gout. Other than that I've been to every game, but according to some posters on this board I hate DW4 and I'm rooting for him o fail. To them I say if DW4 fails the Texans org fails. Why would I want my favorite team to fail.

SMH
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
I found the article by this beat writer .


He wrote it before the Texans - Pats game last year.
Then Watson went out and beat the Pats 28-22 with 53 yards by the RBs on 19 carries.


Oh, and Brady threw a TD in garbage time.
In 2019... This is 2020 different year. The article is about so far (as of 3-4 games in) this year. It goes on to talk about NE playing it more than anyone this year (not last year). And last I looked Houston has not played NE this year or is Brady on the team. That is why I edited the post and took NE out of it. Too many people only spot read it. Saw NE and made a joke out of that and not what it showed.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Just take his word for it.
No thanks. I'd genuinely like to see the strength of the argument about how much of DW's numbers can be attributed to garbage time production. Especially having taken a little bit of time myself to give a basic breakdown. Anyone expecting themselves or their argument to be taken seriously could at bare minimum do similar.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Too many people only spot read it.
I read what you provided as you didn’t link the original article. 76Texans is asking for that link.

He found an article with similar verbiage but from last year.

are you using that article from last year, but numbers from this year?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I did look at the scores of the games. I looked at the scoring through each quarter.

But you go right ahead, make that specific case for the games. Please.

I already broke the games down up thread and showed it's just not the case. But please, go ahead.
Game 1 K.C. 34-20 Meaningless stats the entire 4th qtr.

Game 2 BALT- it's kind hard to have meaningless stats when you score 1 TD in a game.

Game 3- Steelers no meaningless stat. They did manage to lay a goose egg in the 2nd half. LMAO

Game 4- Minny- Trailed by 14 in 4th but I will let you be the judge of garbage time.

Game 5 Jags- No garbage time.

Game 6. Tits- No garbage

Game 7 Pack- Entire 2nd half of Garbage time.

Game 8 Jags - no garbage
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
@Corrosion knows how to lookup stats. If those stats were readily available, he would have provide them. If you put the effort to find the garbage time stats or provide a link to those stats, I will put the effort to find the stats. Deal?
I went back though the games and the post above is my answer.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Game 1 K.C. 34-20 Meaningless stats the entire 4th qtr.

Game 2 BALT- it's kind hard to have meaningless stats when you score 1 TD in a game.

Game 3- Steelers no meaningless stat. They did manage to lay a goose egg in the 2nd half. LMAO

Game 4- Minny- Trailed by 14 in 4th but I will let you be the judge of garbage time.

Game 5 Jags- No garbage time.

Game 6. Tits- No garbage

Game 7 Pack- Entire 2nd half of Garbage time.

Game 8 Jags - no garbage
So 3 quarters out of 32 quarters. Ok, cool.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Issue with cover 2? So if you can read a D you will know when it is zone or cover 2. You also will study more film and figure out ways it is disguised, ways to attack it. Meaning that you improve. That is the point and only point most are trying to make. Is he isn't getting any better at it. Numbers say a lot more than a person explaining. So... numbers are below. I took this from an article that came up when you put in "Watson reading defense issue" it says he is good against zone. Which is good.

_________________________________
This season, teams are playing more zone coverage against Watson and the Texans offense, which makes sense since they can keep an eye on the QB and keep the receivers in front of them.



However, Watson is shredding zone coverage averaging over nine yards per pass attempt while completing 70 percent of his passes. Against man, Watson’s numbers are pedestrian.



In particular, the Houston quarterback, in a limited sample size, has struggled to figure out cover-2 man coverage or two-man as it’s often called in football. Playing it 20% of snaps.

Bwhahaha you’re hilarious
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Start a list of names, posters here saying DW4 doesn’t need to improve.

The problem most of us have is with those saying he can’t or he won’t.

as far as being a top QB, are you saying none of the top QBs need to improve?


The thing to understand, when you’re looking through rose colored glasses things will look one way. When you look through broken glasses, they’ll look another way.

on its own, the stats you presented don’t support your premise. There are a number of reasons that could explain those numbers.


I’ll give you the rest of the day to tell me what steelbtexan says Watson needs to but can’t improve. What maverick says DW4 needs to improve. What Corrosion says he needs to improve.

All different. Some have merit some don’t. So far, your, “hasn’t improved since his scouting report” needs more data. & this can’t beat man 2... I just don’t see it.

But even if it is an issue, I’m confident he’ll fix it.
This is the best post of the year. Darn good stuff Thunder you’re spot on.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Spot On post

I want DW4 to succeed and the Texans org to succeed. Some posters say I hate DW4 and that's furthest from the Truth. I've been to every home game they've played since 2003 unless a game fell on Christmas Eve or the Atlanta game when I went to Conneticut to see my son. Yrs ago I missed a Texans/Raiders game because I had a bad case of the gout. Other than that I've been to every game, but according to some posters on this board I hate DW4 and I'm rooting for him o fail. To them I say if DW4 fails the Texans org fails. Why would I want my favorite team to fail.

SMH
Pretty hard to tell. Actually it sounds pretty darn fake because none of us truly believe you want Watson to succeed.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
No thanks. I'd genuinely like to see the strength of the argument about how much of DW's numbers can be attributed to garbage time production. Especially having taken a little bit of time myself to give a basic breakdown. Anyone expecting themselves or their argument to be taken seriously could at bare minimum do similar.

Good luck with that. They don’t have a darn leg to stand on. Oh wait they do have a report that was generated before Watson was drafted.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
In 2019... This is 2020 different year. The article is about so far (as of 3-4 games in) this year. It goes on to talk about NE playing it more than anyone this year (not last year). And last I looked Houston has not played NE this year or is Brady on the team. That is why I edited the post and took NE out of it. Too many people only spot read it. Saw NE and made a joke out of that and not what it showed.
What you quoted was word to word exact as that article, including the snapshots of the stats.
That article was written by the Pats beatwriter named Evan Lazar.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Game 1 K.C. 34-20 Meaningless stats the entire 4th qtr.

Game 2 BALT- it's kind hard to have meaningless stats when you score 1 TD in a game.

Game 3- Steelers no meaningless stat. They did manage to lay a goose egg in the 2nd half. LMAO

Game 4- Minny- Trailed by 14 in 4th but I will let you be the judge of garbage time.

Game 5 Jags- No garbage time.

Game 6. Tits- No garbage

Game 7 Pack- Entire 2nd half of Garbage time.

Game 8 Jags - no garbage
The Texans had scored 21 points in one quarter against the Chiefs before.

There's no such thing as garbage stats.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
The 4th quarter against the Chiefs

Also there's been a while lot of stats accured late in games that they drove the ball and didn't score. The Ravens game would be an example of this.
I counted the 4th against the Chiefs. So 3 quarters out of 32 total. Cool.

And I'm not sure what the last paragraph is about relative to garbage time stats, so ya.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
But it's not 3 full games though. That's a completely disingenuous statement. And I think you know it, but ok.

It's been pointed out clearly as 3 quarters of football out of 32. Unless you can show more specifically otherwise.
I will PM you the rest of the season and point out when this happens in real time so the stats stuffing will be pointed out at that time.

Nah forget it, why would or for that matter should've discussed anything with a person who has admitted he doesn't like me.

I will leave you with 1 more stat that means the most 0 excuses for DW4's failures this yr. This was the yr DW4 was allowed to make calls at the OL and he's failed miserably. This was the yr that DW4 was supposed to help carry the teams putrid defense and 2-6 with the nly 2 wins coming against the lowly Jags says he wasn't up to the task.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
I will PM you the rest of the season and point out when this happens in real time so the stats stuffing will be pointed out at that time.

Nah forget it, why would or for that matter should've discussed anything with a person who has admitted he doesn't like me.

I will leave you with 1 more stat that means the most 0 excuses for DW4's failures this yr. This was the yr DW4 was allowed to make calls at the OL and he's failed miserably. This was the yr that DW4 was supposed to help carry the teams putrid defense and 2-6 with the nly 2 wins coming against the lowly Jags says he wasn't up to the task.
So nothing, again, to stand up for the garbage time stats argument..

I tried to break it down.. no biggie if you can't further, honestly..
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So nothing, again, to stand up for the garbage time stats argument..

I tried to break it down.. no biggie if you can't further, honestly..
Lets ut it this way how many times are the Texans playing 10 pts down or less in the 2nd half of games. The stats come because defenses dont want to get beat deep. That leads to hollow stats.

I'm done on this topic tonight , I will point it out if it happens in the gameday thread tomorrow.
 
Last edited:

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
All but KC and GB. So, 6 out of 8.

And now are there any other ways you'd like to try and put it..?
Not so much truth to that .... See below.

I don't know what any of that has to do with the point about garbage time stats, but ok..

I'm just gonna suggest that you maybe stop shaking your head so much..
It's not "Garbage time" stats.

It's once the opponent has a 2 score or more lead stats. Teams do start playing differently in those situations - more so the later in the game it gets.

The Chiefs led 24-7.

The Ravens led 20-7.

The Steelers game was the opposite - they were shut out in the 2nd half.

The Vikings led 17-3.

The Titans led 21-7.

The Packers led 21-0.

Teams get a lead like that they loosen up their coverages so they don't get beat on big plays but willing to concede yards while keeping the clock rolling along - The clock is the opponents worst enemy in those situations.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Not so much truth to that .... See below.



It's not "Garbage time" stats.

It's once the opponent has a 2 score or more lead stats. Teams do start playing differently in those situations - more so the later in the game it gets.

The Chiefs led 24-7.

The Ravens led 20-7.

The Steelers game was the opposite - they were shut out in the 2nd half.

The Vikings led 17-3.

The Titans led 21-7.

The Packers led 21-0.

Teams get a lead like that they loosen up their coverages so they don't get beat on big plays but willing to concede yards while keeping the clock rolling along - The clock is the opponents worst enemy in those situations.
This is no hard and fast rule. You're supposing more often than not, whatever that means with specific examples.

And we got within two scores of Balt in the 2nd half (like I said) and we were within two scores of Pitts in the 2nd half (like I said) and we were within two scores of Minn in the 2nd half (like I said) and we were tied and the end of regulation with Tenn (like I said, unless you think coming from behind to tie the game is meaningless somehow).

Teams do all manner of things before the game is out of hand. And out of hand is the only real definition of garbage stats. I pointed out, in sincere judgement, the times the games were out of hand. Otherwise you're not going to tell me that coming from behind is meaningless. That's just silly.

There are certainly things to criticize DW for, but being a garbage stat junkie shouldn't be one of them. If there were a team collectively worth a sh*t around him we could just as easily be looking at Balt, Pitt, Minn, and Tenn as being a never say die hard ass in victory.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Not so much truth to that .... See below.



It's not "Garbage time" stats.

It's once the opponent has a 2 score or more lead stats. Teams do start playing differently in those situations - more so the later in the game it gets.

The Chiefs led 24-7.

The Ravens led 20-7.

The Steelers game was the opposite - they were shut out in the 2nd half.

The Vikings led 17-3.

The Titans led 21-7.

The Packers led 21-0.

Teams get a lead like that they loosen up their coverages so they don't get beat on big plays but willing to concede yards while keeping the clock rolling along - The clock is the opponents worst enemy in those situations.
You cant reason with this guy.

His mind is made up. Defenses dont play any different when they're up 2 scores or more in the 2nd half.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
As said above; there are no strict rules.
Many (but not all) teams may play soft near the end of the first half when the oppponents are still on their end of the field.
Almost all teams don't play soft until 3-4 minutes left in the game.
Some teams play loose /soft cover 2 zone most of the time regardless of the score (but look to set up an Int.)
Some teams don't play soft at all.
 

banned1976

All Pro
163... On 20/30, what was the plan 1 to 8yrd max passes?
I saw very little of the game...last 5 minutes. I know there was a weather delay and a High Wind Warning was/is in effect for Cleveland, Ohio. The Texans also have no running game to speak of. Going out on a limb here, I’m guessing the short passing game would be a part of a game plan for the Texans. If that’s what they did, I don’t blame them for that.

I also heard there were some dropped balls, which would show up as incompletions.
 

Texazan

Our HOF 34
I saw very little of the game...last 5 minutes. I know there was a weather delay and a High Wind Warning was/is in effect for Cleveland, Ohio. The Texans also have no running game to speak of. Going out on a limb here, I’m guessing the short passing game would be a part of a game plan for the Texans. If that’s what they did, I don’t blame them for that.

I also heard there were some dropped balls, which would show up as incompletions.
Cobb dropped two that he should’ve pulled in. One would’ve been 6 points the other a 1st down. Granted the first down pass wasn’t perfect but he should’ve pulled it in. DW never got going, didn’t look sharp, no real downfield looks to speak of. Again, they looked like they had no idea what the plan was
 


Top