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Texans vs Packers Preseason Game 1 Thread

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Come on 76 it’s preseason and it’s football. Can we not enjoy what we saw last night ? Lol
I like what I saw out of the TT; he shows good command of the offense.
That's about it.

It's good to see the guys tried to and forced the turnovers; however, that may not make any difference comes the regular season against the opponents' starters.

Is it better to watch than seeing them get a beat down instead?
Sure, but this particular game doesn't tell us anything that we don't know already.

Like I had said previously, this roster is better than the one in 2006.
The Texans (NC) paid out a lot of bonus money to bring in these middle of the road guys (along with a number of starters - albeit not on the high end).

Got to see them play against real, or at least the same level of competition, to get any kind of excitement.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It's good to see the guys tried to and forced the turnovers; however, that may not make any difference comes the regular season against the opponents' starters.
I liked it because Lovie said it was going to be a fundamental way they will approach the game.

Then we saw it.

Might not mean anything when the regular season starts, but it was refreshing to hear a coach say something & see tangible results on gameday. & in such a short time.

Of course it might just be coincidence & one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. But this is a point to Lovie, for now.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
I don't think that is his point. If I am correct it is that we won the game and no amount of rationale by those who expect the Texans to suck, and Packers fans looking to put lipstick on a pig, will take away the positive things we can can look to from a win. When you win it is only natural to find more good than bad, and when you lose it is only natural that you focus more on the negative and what needs to happen to turn things around.

I can see just the same that if we lost the game, all the I told you so fans and detractors would be pouring it on as if we lost a regular season game. Especially if the game was a blow out by a team like the Lions or Jaguars.

I agree that there is no reason for us to get our heads lost in the clouds over winning our first preseason game. However, I prefer to feel good about a preseason victory and place more emphasis on the positives than to focus on the negatives after a loss. Especially a blow out loss.

Let the coaching staff work on what needs to take place to get us more prepared for the regular season.
Yep. Thanks. I’ve said many times in other posts that im happy this year if we bury the past and field a well coached, smart and motivated football team. Something that we can build on going forward. That’s all. I get it that this won’t happen overnight. But it seems many here don’t get it that it is a viable goal. so Let em yee haaa. The joke is on those types that waste their lives taking daily shots at everything they hate then wake up and do it the next day, lol. Seems like a menial life to me but I don’t live in Houston either.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Yep. Thanks. I’ve said many times in other posts that im happy this year if we bury the past and field a well coached, smart and motivated football team. Something that we can build on going forward. That’s all. I get it that this won’t happen overnight. But it seems many here don’t get it that it is a viable goal. so Let em yee haaa. The joke is on those types that waste their lives taking daily shots at everything they hate then wake up and do it the next day, lol. Seems like a menial life to me but I don’t live in Houston either.
Seems to me you like to joust with windmills. This can be a well coached, motivated team that still ends up with the first pick in the draft. Not mutually exclusive.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Yeap.
The Packers didn't play any starter and at least half of the 2nd string guys, according to their official depth chart.
what’s your point? The Texans did exactly what they were supposed to do. But the butt kicking went on for four quarters with backups. All you’ve proven is that none of the Packers starters better get hurt or they are in a world of crap. The season is a marathon and the teams with quality depth will fare the best. The Packers looked like the Texans backups last year. Somebody there isn’t finding quality depth.
 
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Dejaview

All Pro
Seems to me you like to joust with windmills. This can be a well coached, motivated team that still ends up with the first pick in the draft. Not mutually exclusive.
im no Don Quixote. Texans will damn sure not take the next step forward until they right this ship. That’s the first step. That’s all. Or I could just ***** about every step in the process as A way of life.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
im no Don Quixote. Texans will damn sure not take the next step forward until they right this ship. That’s the first step. That’s all. Or I could just ***** about every step in the process as A way of life.
I dont know if this is the 1st step. I'm hoping for the best for Culley. I like him alot. I'm just glad the trash has almost fully been taken out.
 

Bright 1

Practice Squad
Th
I understand it's the first for a makeshift offensive line, but watching that first series, QB protection was pretty good. Run blocking not so much.

It was good to see different linemen at different times reach the second level. Even though they reached the second level "on time" their blocks weren't very successful.

I did not see a run Lindsay or Johnson did not have to redirect.
e run schem seemed to dictate cutback lanes
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
But that's my point. Winning a preseason game, looking prepared and everything we're saying today about last night, means nothing when it comes to week 1. The week 1 team we'll see on Sept. 12 didn't see more than a handful of snaps last night, some saw none. The week 1 team the Packers will have looks nothing like what was out there last night. It's like the Astros AAA team playing the Brewers AAA team. The result means nothing for the parent club, other than saying hey, this is a guy we should call up to the Big Leagues, or this David Johnson guy needs to be DFA'd.
TBF, we don't know what the week one team will be. Anthony Miller and Greenard might not be on active roster. Collins looked hurt after each of two plays and that's after one preseason game. I do agree with your point.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Let’s go Texans.

I don’t have any expectations.

They exceeded my expectations by a longshot ....

Defense looked decent , even if they are vulnerable up the seams ..... TE's gonna TE.
DL got some pressure with 4 .... LBers and DB's kept things in front of them.

Tyrod did what I expected .... picked at the edges , relied on the running game & play action.

Mills looked like an NFL QB. Average release time was a crazy 2.23 seconds. He's making good , quick decisions.

Running game was not terrible despite having no tackles.

WR's aren't talentless .... not bad at all.

Culley didn't make any mistakes. I really like him. Hope he succeeds.

Kelly called a solid game. This might be the most shocking of all ....

GB did hold out 30 players .... so they were playing the B team.
 

banned1976

sleeper mode
They exceeded my expectations by a longshot ....

Defense looked decent , even if they are vulnerable up the seams ..... TE's gonna TE.
DL got some pressure with 4 .... LBers and DB's kept things in front of them.

Tyrod did what I expected .... picked at the edges , relied on the running game & play action.

Mills looked like an NFL QB. Average release time was a crazy 2.23 seconds. He's making good , quick decisions.

Running game was not terrible despite having no tackles.

WR's aren't talentless .... not bad at all.

Culley didn't make any mistakes. I really like him. Hope he succeeds.

Kelly called a solid game. This might be the most shocking of all ....

GB did hold out 30 players .... so they were playing the B team.
I'm reading your post and it comes across to me that the game you watched on Saturday night, your summary of the game is that the Texans played "decent" and coaching was "decent". I actually agree with that summary. So I'm sitting here wondering, if the Texans were decent and they exceeded your expectations by "a long shot", what were your expectations?

I'll be honest, I expected a clown show. I expected bone-headed penalties, miscues galore, center-to-quarterback fumbles, secondary personnel bumping into one another, guys falling down coming off the sidelines (something I did playing high school football)... That those things didn't happen surprised me.

And can someone tell Tim Kelly, "it's going to be okay"? Every time I see him, he has this expression like someone just ran over his dog and he knows who did it.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I'm reading your post and it comes across to me that the game you watched on Saturday night, your summary of the game is that the Texans played "decent" and coaching was "decent". I actually agree with that summary. So I'm sitting here wondering, if the Texans were decent and they exceeded your expectations by "a long shot", what were your expectations?

I'll be honest, I expected a clown show. I expected bone-headed penalties, miscues galore, center-to-quarterback fumbles, secondary personnel bumping into one another, guys falling down coming off the sidelines (something I did playing high school football)... That those things didn't happen surprised me.

And can someone tell Tim Kelly, "it's going to be okay"? Every time I see him, he has this expression like someone just ran over his dog and he knows who did it.

I didn't expect a clown show / comedy of errors , players don't get to this level without being able to execute the basics .... but I did expect that they would get outclassed talent wise.

That didn't happen , they were on par talent wise .... But they were playing GB's B team as they sat out 30something odd players , mostly established starters.

I think the next two games will be a better barometer because of all those starters GB held out.

I still don't expect more than 3 wins , if that. But its possible they change my mind.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I didn't expect a clown show / comedy of errors , players don't get to this level without being able to execute the basics .... but I did expect that they would get outclassed talent wise.

That didn't happen , they were on par talent wise .... But they were playing GB's B team as they sat out 30something odd players , mostly established starters.

I think the next two games will be a better barometer because of all those starters GB held out.

I still don't expect more than 3 wins , if that. But its possible they change my mind.
The third game will be more of the same , B team versus B team with a few starters playing. We also had 17 players missing.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
The '08 Lions went 4-0 in the preseason and won those games by an average of 12 points per game. They certainly weren't a clown show or comedy of errors in those games.

Their 1st 4 regular season games they lost by an average of 20.2 points per game, in route to an 0-16 season. Plenty of clowns and errors then.

This is why I hate the preseason. People putting way too much into the games, like it's some kind of indicator of something. It's not. Preseason football is not the same game, I don't care how you look. 4-0 or 0-4, comedy of errors or not, it doesn't matter because a majority of the players who are playing these games will have other jobs by the time September rolls around. What we saw Saturday from the Texans, regardless of how good they looked, is not close to the team we will see on Sept. 12. Same for the Packers and how bad they looked. The Bengals beat the Super Bowl champs Saturday night. What do you think that means? It means absolutely nothing.

The Texans did look good Saturday night. The Packers did not. Who do you think has the better season this year? One of those teams will, and it won't even be close.

These games are for looking at individuals, again, most who will be looking for jobs in a couple of weeks, and seeing who stands out, who can play well and be an NFL player. Team accomplishments, or failures for that matter, mean diddly in these games, and don't tell you diddly. You're not going to see the real Houston Texans until September 12th. That's when the T-E-A-M shit matters.

We're coming off a bad season, coming off a bad regime, so I get it. Seeing a good showing, even in a PS game, is refreshing. It’s just that it doesn’t really tell us anything yet.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
The '08 Lions went 4-0 in the preseason and won those games by an average of 12 points per game. They certainly weren't a clown show or comedy of errors in those games.

Their 1st 4 regular season games they lost by an average of 20.2 points per game, in route to an 0-16 season. Plenty of clowns and errors then.

This is why I hate the preseason. People putting way too much into the games, like it's some kind of indicator of something. It's not. Preseason football is not the same game, I don't care how you look. 4-0 or 0-4, comedy of errors or not, it doesn't matter because a majority of the players who are playing these games will have other jobs by the time September rolls around. What we saw Saturday from the Texans, regardless of how good they looked, is not close to the team we will see on Sept. 12. Same for the Packers and how bad they looked. The Bengals beat the Super Bowl champs Saturday night. What do you think that means? It means absolutely nothing.

The Texans did look good Saturday night. The Packers did not. Who do you think has the better season this year? One of those teams will, and it won't even be close.

These games are for looking at individuals, again, most who will be looking for jobs in a couple of weeks, and seeing who stands out, who can play well and be an NFL player. Team accomplishments, or failures for that matter, mean diddly in these games, and don't tell you diddly. You're not going to see the real Houston Texans until September 12th. That's when the T-E-A-M shit matters.

We're coming off a bad season, coming off a bad regime, so I get it. Seeing a good showing, even in a PS game, is refreshing. It’s just that it doesn’t really tell us anything yet.
Ultimately I dont think Preseason scores matter, but how the team plays does. DC had an interesting comment a few weeks ago. He said whenever they keep score it matters. It also matters when they have their most competitive TC roster ever. Why I like the preseason especially watching DC are his takes. Those matter. He was pissed at Mill’s interception. He couldn’t stand all the field goals rather than TD’s. Then the little things. He said yes the punter has a big leg but it’s not all about kicking the ball 50 yards. He was angry with his directional punting and said that’s got to be fixed. He has so much he’s trying to change and fix and he’s so detail oriented that these preseason games really matter. Couldn’t go into the season without them this year.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Ultimately I dont think Preseason scores matter, but how the team plays does. DC had an interesting comment a few weeks ago. He said whenever they keep score it matters. It also matters when they have their most competitive TC roster ever. Why I like the preseason especially watching DC are his takes. Those matter. He was pissed at Mill’s interception. He couldn’t stand all the field goals rather than TD’s. Then the little things. He said yes the punter has a big leg but it’s not all about kicking the ball 50 yards. He was angry with his directional punting and said that’s got to be fixed. He has so much he’s trying to change and fix and he’s so detail oriented that these preseason games really matter. Couldn’t go into the season without them this year.
He can say the score matters all he wants, doesn’t mean it does. There’s no preseason SB and parade.

I would have rather seen the Texans go for it on 4th down 4 times instead taking 12 points on 4 FGs. Why? Because you can’t simulate that in practice. I want to see the 1’s opening the game against the Cowboys in the 2 minute offense, just to get those reps in against players with a different color jersey. I want to see the penalties stay at a minimum. I don’t give a rat’s ass who wins that game Saturday, because it doesn’t count for anything.

Nolan Ryan used to get his ass kicked in spring training games because that might be the day he was working on his curve ball and that’s all he would throw. Didn’t matter that he gave up 8 runs in 4 innings. What mattered was getting the work in.

These games only matter for evaluation and preparation. That’s it.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
DC had an interesting comment a few weeks ago. He said whenever they keep score it matters
It's better than losing.

The way he said it though led me to believe they weren't approaching the game to win it, but as an opportunity to work on a few things.

But they happened to win the game. Nothing wrong with feeling good about scoring more than the other guy.


It also matters when they have their most competitive TC roster ever
Eh... we've had 10+ win teams come out of previous TCs. I don't believe we'll get anything like that out of this one. Hopefully depth will be better. But we'll see.


I like the preseason especially watching DC are his takes. Those matter.
I agree with this. I'm trying to figure out what kind of coach Culley is. What he does is more important than what he says, but so far they appear to be congruent.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I would have rather seen the Texans go for it on 4th down 4 times instead taking 12 points on 4 FGs. Why?
If we were working out other kickers I could see kicking every opportunity.

Working out a holder, or snapper, yeah it's more important to go for it.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
It's better than losing.

The way he said it though led me to believe they weren't approaching the game to win it, but as an opportunity to work on a few things.

But they happened to win the game. Nothing wrong with feeling good about scoring more than the other guy.



Eh... we've had 10+ win teams come out of previous TCs. I don't believe we'll get anything like that out of this one. Hopefully depth will be better. But we'll see.



I agree with this. I'm trying to figure out what kind of coach Culley is. What he does is more important than what he says, but so far they appear to be congruent.
What is your alternative? Who are you comparing him to ? You don’t know **** about anyone else than what this guy is putting on the table. If so put it on the table.
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
The absence of O'Brien and politics may restore the enthusiasm I once had for this game.

Like Corrosion, I was surprised by this team. Every season under O'Brien we saw Texans teams that looked undisciplined and committed head scratching mistakes and penalties. Every year.

During this game, I think it was the 2nd or 3rd quarter before we saw a false start. And was there only one holding call? These linemen have never played a game together, and they were already functionally superior to the experienced O-lines under Devlin.

The players seem more positive and mature. No emotional outbursts, no bad attitudes. Just guys taking care of their business and staying focused. Such a contrast from recent Texans teams.

So I won't be comparing their preseason successes to the 2008 Lions. What we saw on Saturday has far-reaching implications.

Mills looked like an NFL QB. Average release time was a crazy 2.23 seconds. He's making good , quick decisions.
When evaluating QB prospects, I weigh release time heavily. It's why I wanted Mahomes in 2017. What Mills showed on Saturday offers good reason to be optimistic.

Same for Culley. He's earned my confidence after this debut.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
The absence of O'Brien and politics may restore the enthusiasm I once had for this game.

Like Corrosion, I was surprised by this team. Every season under O'Brien we saw Texans teams that looked undisciplined and committed head scratching mistakes and penalties. Every year.

During this game, I think it was the 2nd or 3rd quarter before we saw a false start. And was there only one holding call? These linemen have never played a game together, and they were already functionally superior to the experienced O-lines under Devlin.

The players seem more positive and mature. No emotional outbursts, no bad attitudes. Just guys taking care of their business and staying focused. Such a contrast from recent Texans teams.

So I won't be comparing their preseason successes to the 2008 Lions. What we saw on Saturday has far-reaching implications.



When evaluating QB prospects, I weigh release time heavily. It's why I wanted Mahomes in 2017. What Mills showed on Saturday offers good reason to be optimistic.

Same for Culley. He's earned my confidence after this debut.
It may be too soon for me to get excited about our new offensive line coach but if he is as successful as I think he could be that only makes me even angrier that O'Brien covered for Pat Devlin all those years.

Where would the Texans have been with someone like Campen?
 

Dejaview

All Pro
He can say the score matters all he wants, doesn’t mean it does. There’s no preseason SB and parade.

I would have rather seen the Texans go for it on 4th down 4 times instead taking 12 points on 4 FGs. Why? Because you can’t simulate that in practice. I want to see the 1’s opening the game against the Cowboys in the 2 minute offense, just to get those reps in against players with a different color jersey. I want to see the penalties stay at a minimum. I don’t give a rat’s ass who wins that game Saturday, because it doesn’t count for anything.

Nolan Ryan used to get his ass kicked in spring training games because that might be the day he was working on his curve ball and that’s all he would throw. Didn’t matter that he gave up 8 runs in 4 innings. What mattered was getting the work in.

These games only matter for evaluation and preparation. That’s it.
You seem stuck on some false assumption that these preseason games are all about the win for these coaches. Pull an Astros move and cheat if you have to to win kind if thing. You misunderstand him. He’s all about consistency. When they are keeping score it raises the competition level and he wants their focus at game level. That is how you focus on and eliminate penalties. After 25 years in the NFL I’m pretty sure he knows the score doesn’t matter in the end but it is a real game for the players filling the backside of your roster. Just like his already mentioned upstairs and downstairs communication. They use these games to prepare for the season. And if they win? Then they have better backups because the starters don’t see much action, at least those they know will be the starters. And going for it four times on fourth down? Ask OB how smart that is. Fourth and what? One yard, six inches? What yard line? against a base preseason defense Loaded with backups? Why not against your 1’s in practice then let the game conditions determine when to go for it In the preseason. You gotta practice that too.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
You seem stuck on some false assumption that these preseason games are all about the win for these coaches. Pull an Astros move and cheat if you have to to win kind if thing. You misunderstand him. He’s all about consistency. When they are keeping score it raises the competition level and he wants their focus at game level. That is how you focus on and eliminate penalties. After 25 years in the NFL I’m pretty sure he knows the score doesn’t matter in the end but it is a real game for the players filling the backside of your roster. Just like his already mentioned upstairs and downstairs communication. They use these games to prepare for the season. And if they win? Then they have better backups because the starters don’t see much action, at least those they know will be the starters. And going for it four times on fourth down? Ask OB how smart that is. Fourth and what? One yard, six inches? What yard line? against a base preseason defense Loaded with backups? Why not against your 1’s in practice then let the game conditions determine when to go for it In the preseason. You gotta practice that too.
EVALUATION AND PREPARATION!!! End of story. Holy ****! Anybody, including David Culley, who takes these games for anything more than that is just fooling themselves.
 
Preseason games and scrimmages both have value, a mix of both would be my choice. In a preseason game, the true rules apply and you do things based on what you are evaluating and the game environment. You get to see what happens when your QB gets sacked, how your team executes under pressure, and how your coaches are calling the game and adjusting, etc. Scrimmages are controlled and the whistle will be blown at their discretion and not necessarily when a play is over. But in scrimmages you can work on specific aspects immediately and do it over and over to the coaches liking and I think that is advantageous for coaching individual players and positional groups.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Preseason games and scrimmages both have value, a mix of both would be my choice. In a preseason game, the true rules apply and you do things based on what you are evaluating and the game environment. You get to see what happens when your QB gets sacked, how your team executes under pressure, and how your coaches are calling the game and adjusting, etc.
Though that's true, my issue is that the 1's see very little action in these games. Not that I think they need to be playing full halves or into the 3rd quarter or anything, I just think them seeing more reps than they're getting gets them better prepared for the season. And especially when you don't have any scrimmages scheduled. I mean, our starting QB has seen 10 snaps with his new team. The starting OL has seen zero snaps together, and the starters that did play have seen 10 snaps. That's why I believe they need to go at least a half tonight, especially if they don't play the last game next week. If that's the case, it will be a 3 week layoff for them seeing any live game action.

Scrimmages are controlled and the whistle will be blown at their discretion and not necessarily when a play is over. But in scrimmages you can work on specific aspects immediately and do it over and over to the coaches liking and I think that is advantageous for coaching individual players and positional groups.
In scrimmages, EVERYBODY gets the work in. You have plenty of 1's vs 1's getting their reps in, and there's enough for everybody else to get theirs as well, especially if you're doing a couple of days or 3 of a scrimmage against another team.

I still can't get over the fact that with all the personnel changes made this off-season, and coaching changes too, that they scheduled ZERO scrimmages with anybody. Hard to measure yourself by playing against yourself.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Sad that another 3rd rd pick was wasted.
Here’s a list of how bad it’s been in the O’Brien era:

2014: TE C.J. Fiedorowicz (medically forced to retire due to multiple concussion)
2015: WR Jaelen Strong (released after two underwhelming seasons)
2016: WR Braxton Miller (released after undrafted rookie beat him out for the final spot)
2017: RB D’Onta Foreman (released this past offseason for “maturity issues)
2018: FS Justin Reid (starting safety with expectations to lead secondary)
2018: OL Martinas Rankin (traded for Carlos Hyde. Originally expected to be waived)
2018: TE Jordan Akins (third-string tight end)
2018: Te Khale Warring

 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Sad that another 3rd rd pick was wasted.
People complaining about trading away a 6th. This is why with this team (especially this team) getting a known player is sometimes better than drafting an unknown.

Maybe in the NFL it’s supposed to work with getting good enough player in the 3rd to be able to gamble in the 6th. I could buy into that.

Not this team though.

Let’s try hitting on a player in the 3rd instead of hoping on a gamble in the 6th.

Hopefully Caserio can fix this track record and get a good enough player to play on this team in the third round.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
People complaining about trading away a 6th. This is why with this team (especially this team) getting a known player is sometimes better than drafting an unknown.
Rookie are paid less than vets. Rather than sign a bunch of known journeymen, save the cap space on the draft picks. Then, you can spend your cap space on an impact player. Or re-sign a pick that you did hit on (like a DJ Reader). No one has ever won a championship by building the back end of the roster with old vets.
 
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Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
People complaining about trading away a 6th. This is why with this team (especially this team) getting a known player is sometimes better than drafting an unknown.

Maybe in the NFL it’s supposed to work with getting good enough player in the 3rd to be able to gamble in the 6th. I could buy into that.

Not this team though.

Let’s try hitting on a player in the 3rd instead of hoping on a gamble in the 6th.

Hopefully Caserio can fix this track record and get a good enough player to play on this team in the third round.
If O’Brien is still here then you’re right, those picks don’t matter. Hell, with him no picks matter.

But you hope this new crew is a little better at evaluating talent, thus able to make better picks, so that they do matter and you can build a football team.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Here’s a list of how bad it’s been in the O’Brien era:

2014: TE C.J. Fiedorowicz (medically forced to retire due to multiple concussion)
2015: WR Jaelen Strong (released after two underwhelming seasons)
2016: WR Braxton Miller (released after undrafted rookie beat him out for the final spot)
2017: RB D’Onta Foreman (released this past offseason for “maturity issues)
2018: FS Justin Reid (starting safety with expectations to lead secondary)
2018: OL Martinas Rankin (traded for Carlos Hyde. Originally expected to be waived)
2018: TE Jordan Akins (third-string tight end)
2018: Te Khale Warring

And top that with 7 years of Rick Smith massive fails
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Rookie are paid less than vets. Rather than sign a bunch of known journeymen, save the cap space on the draft picks. Then, you can spend your cap space on an impact player. Or re-sign a pick that you did hit on (like a DJ Reader). No one has ever won a championship by building the back end of the roster with old vets.
While your logic may be sound it cannot be applied to this team when we cannot even evaluate 3rd round picks successfully.
 


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