Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Texans Trade Picks 47 & 78 for Phillip Buchanan

rdbrem said:
But he fumbles two or three times every year. Has he always hated being a Raider that bad?
Click to expand...

Can you name any return man that doesn't have a fumble or two per year?
 
D-ReK said:
Can you name any return man that doesn't have a fumble or two per year?
Click to expand...

2 fumbles on 20 returns is pretty steep, I think. At that rate, JJ would have fumbled about 9 times this year.

Also, didn't we just sign Swinton, who's also a return guy, with better stats?
 
I wouldnt not consider any of Buchanan's stats from last year as a valid measure of his talent.

The only thing it shows is that he has a bad attitude.

We finally get to see if our team can handle a lockerroom cancer and turn him into a quality player.
 
rdbrem said:
2 fumbles on 20 returns is pretty steep, I think. At that rate, JJ would have fumbled about 9 times this year.

Also, didn't we just sign Swinton, who's also a return guy, with better stats?
Click to expand...

Swinton would probably return kickoffs and Buchanon would return punts...Either that or the team may feel that they've invested too much into him to have him risking injury by returning punts...The KR battle will be very interesting this preseason...
 
Ah Yeah. I think he hated it there that bad. The article from SF.com said Hoke knows him. He came into the league wanting to be the next Dejion Sanders. Worst Case scenario he's our nickle back this year and makes four to five TD oportunities for us next year. Worst case scenario, one of the starters goes down, PB comes in and with an improved pass rush, something he never had in Oakland, he doubles the TD oportunities. He has the speed
to turn every ball that reaches his hands a touch down. Fumbling is bad no doubt, but what would have 24 points from the d ment to the club last year ? Can I say consevatively, he's going to get at least four oportunities to take something to the house ? Call me optomistic, but I can live with the fumbles.
 
I threw an idea out a month or two ago, & was told, in no uncertain terms, that it would never happen. Now, while that may still be true, this trade does make it a little more of a possiblity.

I asked the question, "Could the Texans move Glenn to the FS position?". I'm sorry, but with this trade, I have to ask it again.

Remember all the resistive comments about moving Coleman to the FS position after he had just made 7 INT's? What did the Texans do? They drafted a rookie & moved Coleman to the FS position.

I know that the majority on this board believe PB will play the nickel, but if he's as talented as CC & Dom must believe him to be, & with the new emphasis on speed on the defensive side, putting PB in as a starting CB & sliding Glenn over to FS, would give us a serious increase in speed in our secondary. Besides, it's not like we'll be putting in a rookie. He's a 3 year veteran that was in a situation he wasn't happy with.

Both Coleman's & Glenn's contracts expire in 2007. Glenn's contract is considerably larger, but he's got a lot more speed than Coleman. There's only 2 years difference in their ages. Maybe, just maybe, the Texans are going to entertain trade possibilities for Coleman. His contract is reasonable, he successfully made the switch to FS after coming off a season in which he made 7 INT's as a CB. Thus, he's versatile & tradeable.

It's just a thought.
 
I still dont think its likely. Glenn just is not built like a FS.. he would not prosper in that position.

besides.. I think he said he wouldnt play FS.
 
Grid said:
I still dont think its likely. Glenn just is not built like a FS.. he would not prosper in that position.

besides.. I think he said he wouldnt play FS.
Click to expand...

So then, the question arises, would he want to play FS, keep his current contract, & get to continue playing in Houston, or would he rather move to another city & play for less, just to continue playing the CB position? Only he can make that decision.
 
Glenn is too small to be a good FS...I realize Jason Simmons is the same size, but he is built sturdier than Glenn...With that said, I think that anything is possible with this team, and I will leave the door open to that idea...I think we could have Glenn at FS and Coleman at SS and play it like the Patriots do, where they don't use a traditional "free safety" and "strong safety", they view them as "left safety" and "right safety", both of them being FS types that can hit...
 
Glenn just doesnt have the size to be a good FS... granted, Bob Sanders is only about 5'8, but Coleman is a much better fit as the FS than Aaron could be.
 
D-ReK said:
Glenn is too small to be a good FS...I realize Jason Simmons is the same size, but he is built sturdier than Glenn...With that said, I think that anything is possible with this team, and I will leave the door open to that idea...I think we could have Glenn at FS and Coleman at SS and play it like the Patriots do, where they don't use a traditional "free safety" and "strong safety", they view them as "left safety" and "right safety", both of them being FS types that can hit...
Click to expand...

That's all I'm asking, is that we consider the possibility of it happening. With that kind of speed & cover ability, how much would it help our front 7? It should definitely give them more time to get to the QB.
 
Hottoddie said:
So then, the question arises, would he want to play FS, keep his current contract, & get to continue playing in Houston, or would he rather move to another city & play for less, just to continue playing the CB position? Only he can make that decision.
Click to expand...
Glenn has already made that decision. I read an article quoting Glenn as saying he would not play FS. He did say he would happily be the CB who comes in with the nickle package, though. I personally don't think Glenn wants to play a position with such an emphasis on hitting.
 
As good a player as Glenn has been for us.. I dont think we will have any problem with letting him finish his career as a CB with us.
 
the most disappointing thing about the trade with oakland is that we aren't trading with the Redskins. They gave Denver #75 this year and a 1st and a 4th next year for #25 overall this year. On top of that, everyone knows they want Jason Campbell. To get Campbell all anyone need do is to jump in front of Washington's 25th pick. And, by the way, they have 4 days to figure out how to do it.
 
I'm not going to flame anyone here, I'd just like to point a couple of things out about the Buchanon trade.

#1 People seem to think the addition of PBuch is going to help them stop Peyton Manning and the colts. While on the surface that would seem to be the case, the actual facts do not bear that out. Who held that offense down last year? The Jaguars twice and the Patriots twice are the examples that leap into my mind. Now I ask you which of those two teams had a better pair of corners than Drob and Glenn last year? Neither one. They won because they pressured Peyton up the middle and schemed well. You can have 15 shut down corners on your roster, but if you don't get pressure and get Peyton mixed up schematically it is not going to matter.

#2 Much like the Babin trade last year I am not saying you got an awful player. Buchanon may not have played up to his ability yet, but he's supremely talented and he's young and cheap. The problem I had with both deals is what you gave up. At this point Buchanon was clearly on the trade block, and you not only gave up a second and a third, you gave up a relatively high second and third. No matter how you spin it, even if he turns into Deion you overpayed. It's just like the Giants last year with Manning. Unless Eli turns into John Elway II they gave up two high firsts and a fourth and fifth for one player, when they could have stayed put and gotten Rivers or Big Ben and still had those other 3 picks to work with. It just makes no sense. This trade is indefensible.

I can understand a sense of homerism(many of my brethren think the Titans will go 10-6 this year) but at some point you just have to say enough is enough. Casserly has done a piss poor job the last two or three years. Has he added a few good players? Of course, but even the Cardinals and Bengals added a few good players throughout the 90s. The point is that he has not added those players in an even remotely efficient fashion. You traded the entire meat and potatoes of your draft last year for Jason Babin, to a division rival who desperately needed those picks to rebuild no less. Then you vastly overpay for Buchanon, when if you don't improve your pass rush all the corners in the world won't matter. I like the acquisitions, I just don't like what you paid for them. How are you guys not screaming for Casserly's head? I just don't get it.

Titanic
 
Titanic said:
No matter how you spin it, even if he turns into Deion you overpayed.
Click to expand...

And all credibility goes flying straight out the window.

They gave up one net player to get a 1st round talent at an extremely cap friendly price. Seems pretty easy to defend.

Got to love comments on overpaying coming from a fan of a team with $28 mil in deadspace on their cap this year.
 
Titanic said:
No matter how you spin it, even if he turns into Deion you overpayed.
Click to expand...
That comment alone merits some form of ridiclule. I'll leave that part to a future poster.... :yap
 
Don't be a doofus :P I'm saying that even if you get lucky and he turns into Dieon for what he has done up to now and what his portfolio looks like you got robbed. For example....

Lets say Saturday our GM Floyd Reese decides he needs the 203rd pick in the draft, because he has a funny feeling some guy at that spot is going to be great. So he trades our next four first rounders for that pick. Now even if whoever he took at 203 somehow magically turns into the best player ever, he still massively overpayed for that 203rd overall pick. Giving up 4 first rounders for the 203rd pick is unjustifiable, no matter how it turns out. It's like poker. You can go all in with whatever you want, but if you go all in with 2/7 offsuit and happen to make a hand and win, that doesn't make it the correct play, it just makes you a lucky SOB. Capische?
 
we traded our 2nd rounder and a 6th rounder for a 25 year old former first round selection.. and moved up in the third.

and you want to compare that to trading 4 firsts for the 203rd pick?

(just in case ya cant figure that logic. We got Henson for a 6th rounder.. we turned that into a 3rd rounder. We traded our 2nd and OUR 3rd, and kept the Cowboys 3rd.. therefore.. we traded a 2nd and 6th, and moved up in the 3rd)
 
1) When you can trust your corners in man coverage, you can scheme all sorts of ways to get pressure on the QB. That's what Capers did with the Steelers; that's what he will do with the Texans. This team is about to unleash that big playbook of blitzes. With Peek on the field, Babin (the first rookie OLB to start in a Capers defense) in his second season, speedy ILBs who can cover, and the draft just days away (a chance to had to the DL or OLB spots), we may see that pressure yet.

2) How can we say they overpaid when we don't know what the market for Buchannon was? It's weird how many message board posts there are about "overpaid" this and "value" that as if we know the real market values. Before anyone says it, I know all this prognistication is in essence subjective; everybody has an opionion. But what about basing our criticisms and analysis on evidence?

No one is calling for Casserly's head because no GM hits on 100% of his moves and Casserly has a good track record. Compare Casserly to his colleagues.

I personally think that putting two picks into one guy you "know" will pan out is better than wasting picks on that less than 50% chance that any one of two guys will. That's just me; I value quality over quantity.
 
So because you made one good deal(Henson) and got a third round pick you can afford to throw that pick away? Because you got the pick by making another team make a bad deal that somehow excuses you making a bad deal yourselves? No it does not. That pick is #78 overall, it doesn't matter how you got it. That would be like us trading Randy Starks for two bottles of Zima and a subscription to Maxim just because you let us rip you off and draft him. Or buying a Babe Ruth rookie card for two bucks at a flea market and then selling it for five bucks because "it was cheap, and we turned a profit!" That still doesn't make it the most effective use of the resources at hand. Get serious.
 
They are getting a #17 overall player for the #47 & #78 picks. Look it up on the trade chart and you will see that is a steal. Quite the opposite of your little 203rd pick for 4 1st rounders example. Plus, the value to the Texans is further enhanced because now the Raiders are stuck with all of Buchanon's signing bonus on their cap whereas the Texans only have to account for his salaries. I'll trust Jon Hoke's opinion on DB's more than yours (especially after the Deion comment) no offense.

I agree on the Henson deal though. They gave up a 3rd round pick--doesn't matter how they got it.
 
Seems to me he has a huge ego and is a big headcase. Who gives themselves their own nickname and talks about themselves in third person. He just seems like one of those *****s that will never be happy anywhere.

He seem like Kobe Bryant, thinks he is better than he really is, I hope I am wrong, but I just think we could have gotten better guys with our 2nd and 3rd round picks.

Jimmie Johnson once said dynasties are built in the second and third rounds.
 
Our second and third rounds this year will end up with Phillip Buchannon and someone else. We shall see. We are going to end up with 3 players in this 3 round first day draft on Saturday, and we already know one of them.
 
To be of that opinion Titanic, i would have to think that Buchanon is only worth 5 bucks, or two bottles of Zima and a subscription to Maxim (which, btw.. is a very nice analogy to come up with off the top of your head).

I think that Buchanon is worth the 2nd and extra 3rd. So, to me.. it would be like trading Starks for Casey Hampton, or paying 5000 bucks for a Babe Ruth rookie card and selling it for 20,000 (sorry if that seems low.. im not well educated in the worth of baseball cards).
 
Once again you're using faulty logic. Just because he was drafted 17th overall that does not make him worth any more or less now. Akili Smith was drafting 3rd overall. So was Andre Wadworth. Curtis Enis was fifth. All of them were drafting highly, with high expectations, and were busts, as was Buchanon. At this point he is not the gamechanging ballhawking corner from Miami, he is a 3 year veteran who has been erratic and had made it very clear he wasn't going to play in Oakland this year. Yet somehow Al Davis turned a player he essentially had to trade, who had yet to even remotely live up to his hype, into a 2nd and third round pick. That is absurd. If you had gotten him for a third and a fourth, or even two thirds I would be saying what a good deal it is. But you gave up a second in the draft. Wait until Saturday and look at the players on the board when that pick comes up, then come back here and tell me how great this deal was.

Titanic
 
Titanic said:
That is absurd. If you had gotten him for a third and a fourth, or even two thirds I would be saying what a good deal it is.
Click to expand...

No, the idea that players are bar-coded and their value is so well defined as to make the difference between a 2nd and a 3rd and two 3rds the difference between an absurd trade and a good deal is what is truly absurd.
 
this is a pointless debate. As long as you feel that Buchanan is a bust, and I(or we) feel that he can prosper in our system.. there is no way for either of us to convince the other that they are wrong.

We are just going to have to wait and see how he plays.
 
Wait until Saturday and look at the players on the board when that pick comes up, then come back here and tell me how great this deal was.
Click to expand...

The players that are available at 47 are inconsequential since none of them will be proven playmakers...While, for whatever reason, consistency is an issue with Buchanon, you can't argue the fact that he is a game-breaker...If you even try to argue that, there are 7 defensive or special teams touchdowns, all but one of which being in a win, that can do all of my debating for me...
 
obviously they know something we dont know or see, i mean our front office has made some very good decesions IMO, and if they think he can be an impact player or make a difference i wont complain, i think we should all wait until mid way through the season before we judge their decesions.
 
Titanic said:
I'm not going to flame anyone here, I'd just like to point a couple of things out about the Buchanon trade.

#1 People seem to think the addition of PBuch is going to help them stop Peyton Manning and the colts. While on the surface that would seem to be the case, the actual facts do not bear that out. Who held that offense down last year? The Jaguars twice and the Patriots twice are the examples that leap into my mind. Now I ask you which of those two teams had a better pair of corners than Drob and Glenn last year? Neither one. They won because they pressured Peyton up the middle and schemed well. You can have 15 shut down corners on your roster, but if you don't get pressure and get Peyton mixed up schematically it is not going to matter.

#2 Much like the Babin trade last year I am not saying you got an awful player. Buchanon may not have played up to his ability yet, but he's supremely talented and he's young and cheap. The problem I had with both deals is what you gave up. At this point Buchanon was clearly on the trade block, and you not only gave up a second and a third, you gave up a relatively high second and third. No matter how you spin it, even if he turns into Deion you overpayed. It's just like the Giants last year with Manning. Unless Eli turns into John Elway II they gave up two high firsts and a fourth and fifth for one player, when they could have stayed put and gotten Rivers or Big Ben and still had those other 3 picks to work with. It just makes no sense. This trade is indefensible.

I can understand a sense of homerism(many of my brethren think the Titans will go 10-6 this year) but at some point you just have to say enough is enough. Casserly has done a piss poor job the last two or three years. Has he added a few good players? Of course, but even the Cardinals and Bengals added a few good players throughout the 90s. The point is that he has not added those players in an even remotely efficient fashion. You traded the entire meat and potatoes of your draft last year for Jason Babin, to a division rival who desperately needed those picks to rebuild no less. Then you vastly overpay for Buchanon, when if you don't improve your pass rush all the corners in the world won't matter. I like the acquisitions, I just don't like what you paid for them. How are you guys not screaming for Casserly's head? I just don't get it.

Titanic
Click to expand...

It would truly be a waste of time to comprehensively respond to your post so I'll just throw out a quick few points.

#1

--An exception does not make a rule. Yes, the patriots won without elite CBs. By that same logic all teams should ONLY draft QBs in the 6th round 'cause the patriots did it' and 'that's what works.' As a titans fan, I am SURE you will change your tune next year after having lost your two starting CBs this year.

#2

--I'm going to have to quote you here: "At this point Buchanon was clearly on the trade block, and you not only gave up a second and a third, you gave up a relatively high second and third. No matter how you spin it, even if he turns into Deion you overpayed."

First, let me thank you for making it easy with this ridiculous statement.

Second, let's rephrase your statement "You can have one of the best CBs to ever play the game! (deion sanders from your example) for two seasons for the low, low price of 1.5 million dollars and two draft picks....who respectively have a %50 chance and a %75 chance of ever starting in the league."

There is only one team in the entire NFL that wouldn't jump all over that deal in a heartbeat! While I certainly don't expect PB to be another Deion, he's still got the same potential, 4.31 speed, and ability to become a very solid CB for the right team. (BTW the titans are that one team that passed on the above deal cause they mismanaged their cap so badly they'd have to sell their stadium to come up with the 1.5 million.)

#3

--I'll keep this short. Our first picks from the last two drafts have been in consideration for the ROY awards. The first one, Andre Johnson, made the pro-bowl this year, the second one, Dunta Robinson SHOULD have made it also. Tell you what, why don't you offer me any number of players from your last THREE YEARS drafts that I would even consider taking for those two guys...didn't think so....and I'm not even counting the players that were picked below those two guys.

On a closing note...enjoy your rebuilding years...the titans always remind me of THAT famous baseball phrase "SWING AND A MISS!" We sure appreciate the 2 wins a season that you all are hooking us up with for the next few years...thanks for that.
 
clandestin said:
On a closing note...enjoy your rebuilding years...the titans always remind me of THAT famous baseball phrase "SWING AND A MISS!" We sure appreciate the 2 wins a season that you all are hooking us up with for the next few years...thanks for that.
Click to expand...

:rofl: Ouch...
 
here is the thing. he is just 24, he will primarily be the nickel back this year while Glenn is probably in his last starting year, he doesn't have to be pressed into service, and with dunta he won't have a huge role. I think that we got a real steal and i'm very happy, I feel this will allow us to take either Williamson or Benson whichever falls to us, cause at this point i think one of them will.
 
I kinda like this trade. PB is young and very fast. With AG teaching him, I think he could become a great CB. I think that this trade is what is gonna get us past the Colts this year! :thumbup
 
Davis37 said:
I kinda like this trade. PB is young and very fast. With AG teaching him, I think he could become a great CB. I think that this trade is what is gonna get us past the Colts this year! :thumbup
Click to expand...


yeah i see us spliting with the colts, and the only way to really beat the is by having great CBs and a great pass rush, which needs to improve or be addressed.
 
Petey probably isn't on the same level as them right now, but he has improved every year he's been in the league and I can't see him doing anything but getting better...I would stack our 4th CB up against any team's 4th WR...
 
and Buchanon agaisn't any teams 3rd WR is great as well. the only weakness we have at the position is Glenns age, and how much more he will decline this year.
 
TexansCanes said:
i trust "showtime" to get it done.
Click to expand...

I heard Buchanon was training with Deion an his playing style is similar to Deion, but I definitely don't think he's the next coming of Deion Sanders...

Honestly, I forecast him being the 3rd CB on the depth chart, but he'll probably pull in 3 or 4 INTs...As long as he plays well and keeps his mouth shut, I'll be happy with him...
 
i dont know if anyone else has done this, but the redskins were supposedly going to trade the number 9 for buchanon and the number 38.

the 9 pick is worth 1350 points which redskins give up, the 38 is worth 520, which means the value of buchanon is 830 or the equivalent of the 21st pick of the draft.

the 47 is worth 430 and the 78 is worth 200, which means we got him for 630 total points, 200 points less than the redskins would have. the equivalent of the 30th pick in the draft.

so we did get him at a better value than the other trade rumors that were out there.
 
I think those saying this a bad trade need to look at the draft this year. After the 1st 15 picks it is 2nd round talent and of the 1st 15 they are not many sure things, if any. None of the cornerbacks this year would have been drafted above Buchanan. He ran under a 4.3 coming out of college and from the scouting reports I have read this year he seems to have more problems being overly aggressive than anything else. The Scouts at ESPN comment on his tremendous athleticism and speed. He can mirror receivers and has extremely fluid hips. Furthermore, he is a dangerous return man.

Sometimes you need a change of scenery and at 24 he may be ready to shine. So essentially we gave up a 2nd round pick for a 24 year-old with star potential and low-cap figure. How this is a bad trade is beyond me. I just don't see the talent in this draft and I don't think CC does either. Time will tell, but condemning this trade already is asinine. And with our history of 2nd/3rd picks, I am even more excited. Houston is not Oakland, the tempations, the history of badboys, etc, do not exist. He has a chance to shine here opposite Dunta. Two young, explosive cornerbacks is a good thing. Hopefully, in time the haters will see my new boy Philly B rock the stands.
 
texans traded their second and one of their thirds for buchannon. this is a good trade. he's still young, 17th pick in 2002. he'll be good in the right situation and will be a good addition to the D.
 
D-ReK said:
I heard Buchanon was training with Deion an his playing style is similar to Deion, but I definitely don't think he's the next coming of Deion Sanders...

Honestly, I forecast him being the 3rd CB on the depth chart, but he'll probably pull in 3 or 4 INTs...As long as he plays well and keeps his mouth shut, I'll be happy with him...
Click to expand...

I agree with that. Plus listening to alot of GM's including Casserly, this is a particularly weak draft.
 
ToroRojo said:
I think those saying this a bad trade need to look at the draft this year. After the 1st 15 picks it is 2nd round talent and of the 1st 15 they are not many sure things, if any. None of the cornerbacks this year would have been drafted above Buchanan. He ran under a 4.3 coming out of college and from the scouting reports I have read this year he seems to have more problems being overly aggressive than anything else. The Scouts at ESPN comment on his tremendous athleticism and speed. He can mirror receivers and has extremely fluid hips. Furthermore, he is a dangerous return man.

Sometimes you need a change of scenery and at 24 he may be ready to shine. So essentially we gave up a 2nd round pick for a 24 year-old with star potential and low-cap figure. How this is a bad trade is beyond me. I just don't see the talent in this draft and I don't think CC does either. Time will tell, but condemning this trade already is asinine. And with our history of 2nd/3rd picks, I am even more excited. Houston is not Oakland, the tempations, the history of badboys, etc, do not exist. He has a chance to shine here opposite Dunta. Two young, explosive cornerbacks is a good thing. Hopefully, in time the haters will see my new boy Philly B rock the stands.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head right there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top