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Texans Trade for Duke Johnson

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
I think this move all but says, he is replacing LM after this season. Spending a 3rd for depth at the RB for only one season doesn’t make sense. I think they expect him to play out the contract.



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This is my thought as well. IMO, I think they, scratch that, Bill thinks he's getting LM's back up and future replacement all in one. I hope Duke can put together a full, healthy and productive season to prove the right choice was made.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Tweet from @AaronWilson_NFL: Bill O'Brien on Duke Johnson: 'We have a vision for how we want to use him. We're excited about it. We have to get him rehabbed. We just have to get him out on the field and start seeing the vision we have for him.'
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Tweet from @AaronWilson_NFL: Bill O'Brien on Duke Johnson: 'We have a vision for how we want to use him. We're excited about it. We have to get him rehabbed. We just have to get him out on the field and start seeing the vision we have for him.'
What does he mean "rehabbed"? Don't tell me this dude is working through an injury. I'd ******* lose it.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
What does he mean "rehabbed"? Don't tell me this dude is working through an injury. I'd ******* lose it.
He had or has a hamstring injury, but people speculated he was faking it because he wanted to be traded
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
He had or has a hamstring injury, but people speculated he was faking it because he wanted to be traded
So, let me get this straight. We knowingly draft an injured player in the 3rd round, who pretty much stays injured. Then we give up another 3rd round pick to get another injured player?
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
So, let me get this straight. We knowingly draft an injured player in the 3rd round, who pretty much stays injured. Then we give up another 3rd round pick to get another injured player?
Well at least if he doesn't play 10 games it's only a 4th rounder.

Their coach says he wasn't faking it:

Freddie Kitchens defended Duke Johnson over speculation that his pulled hamstring may have been more about muscling his way out of Cleveland than an actual pulled muscle.

“Do not question Duke’s professionalism,’’ Kitchens said of the injury that’s sidelined him since the third day of camp. “Duke had a pulled hamstring. As an organization, you do not want him come back on a pulled hamstring and he pulls it again he is out for a month.’’


Johnson underwent an MRI on the hamstring recently and it was determined he’d need some time.


“We were trying to get him ready for the season,’’ said Kitchens. “We weren’t trying to get him ready to play tonight. I would not question Duke’s professionalism if I were you.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/08/freddie-kitchens-says-duke-johnson-wasnt-dogging-it-with-the-pulled-hamstring.html?outputType=amp
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Tweet from @PatDStat: Bill O’Brien on the addition of Duke Johnson plus ruling him out for work vs Detroit this coming week. Johnson suffered a hamstring injury day three of Browns camp. #Texans https://t.co/tJl0mwnDz8
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
At a minimum we should have a better than average defense. I haven't the foggiest idea of what to predict for the offense, other than ineptitude.
I think the defense will be above average, but they really haven't invested enough in he secondary because they are trying to fix the dumpster fire of an offense.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Can’t wait for rapping Duke to get his take on 610 about the new Duke in town. Hell we better live it up he is like our 3rd. Pick of the 2020 NFL draft :bravo:
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
For those saying that OB wont use RBs in the passing game... do you remember when he had Arian Foster?

Foster played 13 games in 2014 (OB's first season) and had 38 catches.

2015 he played 4 games and had 22 catches.

http://www.nfl.com/player/arianfoster/79555/careerstats

Obviously the Texans haven't had a RB with Arian Foster's skills as a pass catcher... until now.
Lamar Miller has 47 the year before he came to Houston. One of his positive attributes was supposed to be catching out of the backfield.

In Miami he trended upward in receptions, in Houston he’s trended downward.

But I don’t know if that is necessarily an OB thing.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Lamar Miller has 47 the year before he came to Houston. One of his positive attributes was supposed to be catching out of the backfield.

In Miami he trended upward in receptions, in Houston he’s trended downward.

But I don’t know if that is necessarily an OB thing.

We're not using him in the passing game like that. That's why it seems as if he's trending downward in that area. We all know OB wants him to pound it up the middle. Plus Miller wasn't a 3 down back in Miami. Here in Houston he used as such.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
We're not using him in the passing game like that. That's why it seems as if he's trending downward in that area. We all know OB wants him to pound it up the middle. Plus Miller wasn't a 3 down back in Miami. Here in Houston he used as such.
And that's the perfect example of how OB doesn't put the talent he has in the best position to succeed. That's called coaching better which OB says he has to do after every single game they've ever played with him here, and we're still waiting for him to do.

He's going to win games because some of that talent is really, really good, but he'll continue to be mediocre until he learns how to properly take advantage of his talent's strengths.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
A third round pick in 2020 Draft for Johnson could turn out to be a savvy decision as he'll be 26 at the start of this season so he likely has 4 to 5 years of tread remaining
in his NFL career if he can remain healthy.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Lamar Miller has 47 the year before he came to Houston. One of his positive attributes was supposed to be catching out of the backfield.

In Miami he trended upward in receptions, in Houston he’s trended downward.

But I don’t know if that is necessarily an OB thing.
How many sacks would've been prevented by using Miller that way? Spread the defense out and hit the RB after he chips a DE or S. I mean design plays to hit the RB. Use the spread as a means to get the D in the personnel package you want them in.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
We're not using him in the passing game like that. That's why it seems as if he's trending downward in that area. We all know OB wants him to pound it up the middle. Plus Miller wasn't a 3 down back in Miami. Here in Houston he used as such.
I agree that we're not using LM in the passing game as much as we could, at least to my eyes. However, he was the feature back in Miami except for his rookie year. When he was drafted I believe Reggie Bush was there and Daniel Thomas. It will be interesting to see how they both are used.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
I agree that we're not using LM in the passing game as much as we could, at least to my eyes. However, he was the feature back in Miami except for his rookie year. When he was drafted I believe Reggie Bush was there and Daniel Thomas. It will be interesting to see how they both are used.
Primary or #1 isn't close to feature back. A feature back is a guy who doesn't come out for a 3rd down back. It's a RB in on any down. RBBC is the opposite of feature back. Miller crossed 200 carries one time in Miami. 10.5 attempts per game while there. That ain't feature. For contrast Foster or Emmitt, feature backs, were double that.

Here Miller is 16.3 apg.

Look at it this way, has anyone ever yelled out for Miller to pound it down the field? Other than OB.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
Primary or #1 isn't close to feature back. A feature back is a guy who doesn't come out for a 3rd down back. It's a RB in on any down. RBBC is the opposite of feature back. Miller crossed 200 carries one time in Miami. 10.5 attempts per game while there. That ain't feature. For contrast Foster or Emmitt, feature backs, were double that.

Here Miller is 16.3 apg.

Look at it this way, has anyone ever yelled out for Miller to pound it down the field? Other than OB.
While I see what you are presenting, I just don't agree. Primary/feature is the same in my eyes, its all relative to the offensive philosophy of the team. I don't know the details of the Dolphins situational football to know why his carries were what they were. To me, when you say Foster or Emmitt you are identifying more talented or successful RBs than Miller. In 2011, 1 year from Foster's breakout year, Ben Tate was here and did quite well. That would have made Foster (I think he missed 3 games) whom you identified as an example of a feature back, part of a RBBC. Either way, I'm fine with however Miller and Johnson are used as long as it leads to Ws.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
To me, when you say Foster or Emmitt you are identifying more talented or successful RBs than Miller.
Ta-Da! Miller is not a feature back. No coach will ever change his playcalling affirmatively for Miller. A feature back the coach says, "that's it, hammer X."

Look at it this way, what's the D coaching against?

Miller (1 min) play your roles.

Foster (15 min) ok so watch what folks mean by one cut. Don't try to get ahead of him, at some point he will plant. Someone has to not over pursue, etc. He's not likely to give a spin or a stiff arm but watch for an open field jump cut.

Emmitt (25 min) it's going to look like you're about to hit him square. You're a daisy if you do. You're goal should not be square it should be hit and grab one leg. Watch the shift. Ball hand indicates direction because Emmitt almost only carries left. Ball comes up, he's about to go left... Don't count on anything his right hand can touch. He will move, shift, brace off what you give him... Pick a half yard beyond normal as a goal for your tackle.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
@GrahamBarfield: These teams targeted their RBs on early downs (1st and 2nd) most often last season:

1. Patriots - 33%
2. Lions - 31%
T3. Lions - 29%
T3. Saints - 29%
T5. Giants - 28%
T5. Raiders - 28%
T5. Jaguars - 28%
T8. Bears - 26%
T8. Panthers - 26%
T8. Seahawks - 26%
NFL Average - 22.5%
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
How many sacks would've been prevented by using Miller that way? Spread the defense out and hit the RB after he chips a DE or S. I mean design plays to hit the RB. Use the spread as a means to get the D in the personnel package you want them in.
Oh I agree.

Especially since two of your top three receivers were hurt and you were relying on rookie TEs and the line was bad.

Vet player like Miller who is better in space.

He probably should have had a lot more targets.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
How many sacks would've been prevented by using Miller that way? Spread the defense out and hit the RB after he chips a DE or S. I mean design plays to hit the RB. Use the spread as a means to get the D in the personnel package you want them in.
Part of the long term pass protection strategy last year was for the rb's to chip before they went out. You also know the spread is less effective when your #2 & 3 WR's are out with injury the majority of the year. Apart from that, the chipping strategy was ineffective as a long term strategy mainly b/c the o-line was so bad that by the time the rb's came off the chip, DW4 was already running for his life. Got worse when Fuller went down. Aside from that, Teams blitz the dog hell out of you when you try to leak the rb out like that & make them huge parts of the passing game like that. Their goal at that point is to force you on the offense to keep him in for pass pro. Brady & co. got away with it.....well, b/c he's Brady....& also b/c they had Gronk working the middle of the field & he drew alot of attention by MLB's. To blitz 1 or both of the MLB's was to leave him 1 on 1 with a LB or a safety neither of which is a favorable match up......Plus, you know, their o-line is better.

Chris Carter discusses the defensive strategy here on undisputed.
 

Texan Asylum

Hall of Fame
I don't like trading a future asset to solve a problem that we had all off-season to fix and never made any attempt to do so. I liked Foreman when we drafted him. He tore his achilles. That's a death sentence in my opinion. We had months to do something here and failed and now have to mortgage a small piece of our future to fix that mistake.
Just a thought, but is it possible that they had their sites on Johnson from the get-go and knew that's who they wanted? Maybe that would explain why they did not make a move in the off season...maybe behind the scenes, this WAS the move they were making.
 
Just a thought, but is it possible that they had their sites on Johnson from the get-go and knew that's who they wanted? Maybe that would explain why they did not make a move in the off season...maybe behind the scenes, this WAS the move they were making.
Don't see it, they put to much work into Foremen to be planning on cutting him and bringing Johnson in. I like the move but I think it was very much a 'Geeze this guy sucks just as much now as he did before, we can't go into the season like this. Johnson is unhappy with Cleveland and wants out, call'em up and see what they'll take for him and have security throw Foremen out on his ass."
 

Texan Asylum

Hall of Fame
Don't see it, they put to much work into Foremen to be planning on cutting him and bringing Johnson in. I like the move but I think it was very much a 'Geeze this guy sucks just as much now as he did before, we can't go into the season like this. Johnson is unhappy with Cleveland and wants out, call'em up and see what they'll take for him and have security throw Foremen out on his ass."
Just as probable as well...I would think that they would know that though by now, or maybe they did and only tossed Foreman aside when that pretty when they knew that the deal for DJ was pretty much a done deal. Just speculating...
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
After 2 games, Duke has:

-15 rushes for 88 yards
-4 catches for 33 yards

Worth a 3rd round pick?
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
4 catches for 33 yards
Spending a 3rd for a backup RB I was never a fan of, but my biggest fear was this staff misusing him. Duke Johnson is outstanding in the pass game yet he has 4 catches for 33 yards in 2 games.

Some will say they have a new direction now. Looks like the same ol crap to me. Don’t care much what a player’s strengths are, you do it my way now.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
To be fair, Duke has messed up a little bit on the field. Week One saw him out of position on a handoff that resulted in a busted play. Week Two saw him out of position on another on, but the play was salvaged. Then there was the potential TD throw where he turned around too early. It's pretty clear the talent is there, but he's made some mistakes that have cost him in the production department, and probably in the trust department.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
With Duke on board I bet rb targets go way up.
So far you'd be losing that bet!

After 2 games, Duke has:

-15 rushes for 88 yards
-4 catches for 33 yards

Worth a 3rd round pick?
After 4 games he has 8 rec for 77 yards. TWELVE targets in 4 games.

Spending a 3rd for a backup RB I was never a fan of, but my biggest fear was this staff misusing him. Duke Johnson is outstanding in the pass game yet he has 4 catches for 33 yards in 2 games.
See above response. OB has no clue what to do with this guy.

Incompetent coach has no idea how to use him.
See above response about him having no clue. At this point all I can do is smh. WR's and RB's wide open all over the NFL, but not this team. Maddening.
 

Earl34

Veteran
So far you'd be losing that bet!


After 4 games he has 8 rec for 77 yards. TWELVE targets in 4 games.


See above response. OB has no clue what to do with this guy.


See above response about him having no clue. At this point all I can do is smh. WR's and RB's wide open all over the NFL, but not this team. Maddening.
If OB had a clue, when the running game was struggling against Jacksonville, he would have used Duke in the short passing game. In the Panthers game, instead of sending him out wide on a safety, he should have kept him in the backfield and giving him more option routes against slower LBs. That's the Patriots' way.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If OB had a clue, when the running game was struggling against Jacksonville, he would have used Duke in the short passing game. In the Panthers game, instead of sending him out wide on a safety, he should have been keeping him in the backfield and giving him more option routes against slower LBs. That's the Patriots' way.
They tried that a couple of times.

Watson just struggled last game.
 


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