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Texans Trade for Duke Johnson

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
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jradMIT

Veteran
Way too steep of a price, for a guy who is making a lot for a RB in 2020, 2021. 4-5M Who is 26 with minimal upside. For those saying they will have an extra 3rd next year, the price is still the price as if there aren’t plenty of holes on this team that don’t need to be filled. RB is the most plentiful least scarce position, and more than likely there would be someone cut and/or a PS that wouldn’t have cost this much draft stock and salary. This smacks of a desperation move, BOB already wears too many hats as it is, now he’s the wheeling and dealing GM. What I don’t understand is that when they didn’t draft an RB, most people were like well they must have some confidence in Foreman, well that was wrong, and now instead of adding a cheaper player with some upside, they’ve spent precious draft capital on a guy who contract puts him 11th highest paid RB on an average year basis.


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ghostlight

Veteran
Ok, all things considered we put ourselves in this position. Again the pain of not drafting a serious running back and now having to give up a precious draft spot to fill a need. NowI see it as a good thingy that we were able to add a RB that can really help our team.
 

ghostlight

Veteran
Ok, all things considered we put ourselves in this position. Again the pain of not drafting a serious running back and now having to give up a precious draft spot to fill a need. NowI see it as a good thingy that we were able to add a RB that can really help our team.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
We could have had Damien Harris in third round instead of NE getting him. Based on tonight's game only Higdon might be real deal eliminating Duke Johnson in 2020 saving 4 million dollars cap space. Also Crockett looks good to replace Lamar Miller after season. Still early let's see.
 

EllisUnit

Trump 2020
Well glad to see we did help improve our running/passing game. I wonder what we could get if we put Bill Obrien on the market, hell I'd take Mr irrelevant in next years draft.... :barman:
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
We could have had Damien Harris in third round instead of NE getting him. Based on tonight's game only Higdon might be real deal eliminating Duke Johnson in 2020 saving 4 million dollars cap space. Also Crockett looks good to replace Lamar Miller after season. Still early let's see.
Here is some real optimism.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Lol..some of you guys i swear man.. We needed some rb depth & a guy that would enable us to pass it more to the rbs, & we went out & got 1 of the best available...the type of trade many of these same folks said wasn't going to happen b/c of supposed incompetence or just flat out conservatism. The "5 headed monster" just wasn't going to do it. Then, it happens. Now the talking point for these negative nancy's is " we gave up too much!...........the value is off etc"...

Listening to the morons on 97.5 this morning saying this exact thing..."the browns were gonna trade him anyway...why give up a 3rd/4th...the value was around a 4th -5th & we could've had him, i don't understand why they gave up what they gave up..".wah, wah, wah.

hey idiots, the value of something is whatever someone was willing to give up for it... & if the Pats or some other org got into an injury situation & had paid the exact same price to get him, these same idiots panning what we gave would've been up in arms b/c we needed the depth but we just weren't "aggressive" & too stupid...or whatever.

Furthermore, we've had 2-3 very experienced....& inexperienced GM's in the past...& none of those guys were exactly killing it with trades either.

All the draftniks talking about "well we could've gotten this rb in the draft... or that rb in the draft instead of giving up what we did to get Duke" Yeah well we did that already with Deonta Foreman... didn't pan out so great...Plus, none of those guys had played a down of NFL football. At least with Johnson we know that he can play & be very damn good in this league.

Dude could be very well worth what we gave up for him considering the absymal 3rd-4th round draft history of the Texans....Nix....Devier Posey, Brennan Williams...Jaeleen Strong, Deonta Foreman, Braxton Miller...Antwan Molden...Lol do i need to continue?
 

jradMIT

Veteran
Just because a team has missed in the third doesn’t mean the value of the pick is in any way diminished. So if this team had whiffed on 1st rounders should they start throwing them out like last weeks meat loaf? There’s a reason this is the highest pick paid for a RB since Richardson, RBs don’t carry that much value, BoB over paid period, it was a panic move because they poorly planned for the position, put too much stock in Foreman, didn’t draft an RB or sign a guy. Now you pay a third, and on top of that the guy is gonna make big money for a RB.

You only have your picks and your salary to build your team, a finite set of resources, over paying for a player means you have less of these resources to fill other holes, and this team has some holes. Vastly overpaying in both aspects for a guy with little upside isn’t a smart move for long term success.


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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Lol..some of you guys i swear man.. We needed some rb depth & a guy that would enable us to pass it more to the rbs, & we went out & got 1 of the best available...the type of trade many of these same folks said wasn't going to happen b/c of supposed incompetence or just flat out conservatism. The "5 headed monster" just wasn't going to do it. Then, it happens. Now the talking point for these negative nancy's is " we gave up too much!...........the value is off etc"...

Listening to the morons on 97.5 this morning saying this exact thing..."the browns were gonna trade him anyway...why give up a 3rd/4th...the value was around a 4th -5th & we could've had him, i don't understand why they gave up what they gave up..".wah, wah, wah.

hey idiots, the value of something is whatever someone was willing to give up for it... & if the Pats or some other org got into an injury situation & had paid the exact same price to get him, these same idiots panning what we gave would've been up in arms b/c we needed the depth but we just weren't "aggressive" & too stupid...or whatever.

Furthermore, we've had 2-3 very experienced....& inexperienced GM's in the past...& none of those guys were exactly killing it with trades either.

All the draftniks talking about "well we could've gotten this rb in the draft... or that rb in the draft instead of giving up what we did to get Duke" Yeah well we did that already with Deonta Foreman... didn't pan out so great...Plus, none of those guys had played a down of NFL football. At least with Johnson we know that he can play & be very damn good in this league.

Dude could be very well worth what we gave up for him considering the absymal 3rd-4th round draft history of the Texans....Nix....Devier Posey, Brennan Williams...Jaeleen Strong, Deonta Foreman, Braxton Miller...Antwan Molden...Lol do i need to continue?
I swear, the Texans could pull an Astros like turn-around and win 3 of 4 superb-owls and Houstonians in general and this board in particular gonna b!tch because things aren't done their way. Talking heads as bad as any. Team has lots to complain about, but we should throw in the towel before a real down of real football is played? FK this bshit!
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I swear, the Texans could pull an Astros like turn-around and win 3 of 4 superb-owls and Houstonians in general and this board in particular gonna b!tch because things aren't done their way. Talking heads as bad as any. Team has lots to complain about, but we should throw in the towel before a real down of real football is played? FK this bshit!
Texans are nowhere close to the Astros. That's funny
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I swear, the Texans could pull an Astros like turn-around and win 3 of 4 superb-owls and Houstonians in general and this board in particular gonna b!tch because things aren't done their way. Talking heads as bad as any. Team has lots to complain about, but we should throw in the towel before a real down of real football is played? FK this bshit!
I've already heard it from a few people on the radio as it pertains to the Astros..."are they peaking too early?"....."They are the clear prohibitive favorites now with the Grienke trade..is the pressure going to be too much now?"

Its like they actively look for reasons to be disappointed.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
And recently the Astros were nowhere near the Texans... your point?
I was really critical of how McLane ran the Astros to the ground at the end. But when the new regime came in with a plan, it was great even if it took some years of losing to rebuild. That's the change the Texans need now.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
With their 3rd rd draft record I dont have a problem with this trade.
Though that may be true, it’s still a pretty high price to pay for guy who isn’t beating out Isaiah Crowell and Carlos Hyde. Again, much like Howard, I don’t have a problem with the player, it’s the value you’re getting that is out of whack. OB has difficulty evaluating talent, now he’s in charge of assessing value in trades?

This organization is whacked out of their minds right now.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Lol..some of you guys i swear man.. We needed some rb depth & a guy that would enable us to pass it more to the rbs, & we went out & got 1 of the best available...the type of trade many of these same folks said wasn't going to happen b/c of supposed incompetence or just flat out conservatism. The "5 headed monster" just wasn't going to do it. Then, it happens. Now the talking point for these negative nancy's is " we gave up too much!...........the value is off etc"...

Listening to the morons on 97.5 this morning saying this exact thing..."the browns were gonna trade him anyway...why give up a 3rd/4th...the value was around a 4th -5th & we could've had him, i don't understand why they gave up what they gave up..".wah, wah, wah.

hey idiots, the value of something is whatever someone was willing to give up for it... & if the Pats or some other org got into an injury situation & had paid the exact same price to get him, these same idiots panning what we gave would've been up in arms b/c we needed the depth but we just weren't "aggressive" & too stupid...or whatever.

Furthermore, we've had 2-3 very experienced....& inexperienced GM's in the past...& none of those guys were exactly killing it with trades either.

All the draftniks talking about "well we could've gotten this rb in the draft... or that rb in the draft instead of giving up what we did to get Duke" Yeah well we did that already with Deonta Foreman... didn't pan out so great...Plus, none of those guys had played a down of NFL football. At least with Johnson we know that he can play & be very damn good in this league.

Dude could be very well worth what we gave up for him considering the absymal 3rd-4th round draft history of the Texans....Nix....Devier Posey, Brennan Williams...Jaeleen Strong, Deonta Foreman, Braxton Miller...Antwan Molden...Lol do i need to continue?
While I do agree with you on some of your posts, there are other parts that I do not. Duke Johnson could tear his Achilles as did Foreman as could Damien Harris. Draftnik or not Damien Harris has as much upside as does Johnson. The latter does not have terms of NFL experience either. Sidebar, if we had selected Harris that would have taken him away from the Pats. I am always willing to up grade roster and like you think Johnson will do that. I am also hopeful as I said "after 2019 Higdon and Crockett can replace Miller and Johnson plus create cap space. "
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Just because a team has missed in the third doesn’t mean the value of the pick is in any way diminished. So if this team had whiffed on 1st rounders should they start throwing them out like last weeks meat loaf? There’s a reason this is the highest pick paid for a RB since Richardson, RBs don’t carry that much value, BoB over paid period, it was a panic move because they poorly planned for the position, put too much stock in Foreman, didn’t draft an RB or sign a guy. Now you pay a third, and on top of that the guy is gonna make big money for a RB.

You only have your picks and your salary to build your team, a finite set of resources, over paying for a player means you have less of these resources to fill other holes, and this team has some holes. Vastly overpaying in both aspects for a guy with little upside isn’t a smart move for long term success.


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2 million for this year is not too much for a good running back even the backup. 2020 is a year away. Time for Johnson to prove his worth or not.
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
While I do agree with you on some of your posts, there are other parts that I do not. Duke Johnson could tear his Achilles as did Foreman as could Damien Harris. Draftnik or not Damien Harris has as much upside as does Johnson. The latter does not have terms of NFL experience either. Sidebar, if we had selected Harris that would have taken him away from the Pats. I am always willing to up grade roster and like you think Johnson will do that. I am also hopeful as I said "after 2019 Higdon and Crockett can replace Miller and Johnson plus create cap space. "
I will take things that will never happen for $1000 Alex.
 
While I do agree with you on some of your posts, there are other parts that I do not. Duke Johnson could tear his Achilles as did Foreman as could Damien Harris. Draftnik or not Damien Harris has as much upside as does Johnson. The latter does not have terms of NFL experience either. Sidebar, if we had selected Harris that would have taken him away from the Pats. I am always willing to up grade roster and like you think Johnson will do that. I am also hopeful as I said "after 2019 Higdon and Crockett can replace Miller and Johnson plus create cap space. "
While everything you said about Harris is true is also has the benefit of hindsight. At the time of the draft we thought we had two serviceable RBs in Foremen and Miller. Reports were that Foremen was looking pretty good pre season wise so if they weren't going Jacob's in the first then there wasn't much reason to take one in the third.

You could make a great case for not taking Warring, especially without using hindsight of how Warring is shaping up, but is what it is and if Foremen had worked out then you got the best of both worlds. As it is the situation changed and they adjusted fairly well in my book.

As for Johnson getting injuries again that is always possible but at the same time in his whole NFL career Johnson has missed like 2 games. That's amazing for any player and a RB in particular. So while the possiblity is there history is, for once, on the Texans side.
 

bah007

Hall of Fame
A third round pick (which is what it will eventually be) is a ton to give up for a backup RB. But beggars can't be choosers. When you've put your depth chart in a shitty situation you're only going to get shitty offers. Cleveland had no reason to negotiate. One look at what we currently have at that position and they knew they had us by the balls.

I also have a huge problem with a coach, seemingly on the hot seat to some degree, trading future assets to fix short term problems that he helped create. One of the reasons few coaches have this kind of power is because their goals will always be short-term, and there has to be someone above them looking out for the future. I'm not really a fan of trading next year's draft to patch holes that you didn't fix in this year's off-season.

My biggest problem with the trade is that Duke Johnson is an even worse fit for this offense than Lamar Miller is. I like the player (quite a bit, actually). But I have zero confidence in this staff's ability to use him correctly. I think this would be a really good trade if we used our personnel in a manner that actually suited their skills.

We would have been better off trading a late pick for a battering ram, because that's all a RB seems to be to OB.
 

jradMIT

Veteran
2 million for this year is not too much for a good running back even the backup. 2020 is a year away. Time for Johnson to prove his worth or not.
His contract is for 4M 2020 and 5M 2021, or are you suggesting giving up a 3rd for one year of service of a backup RB?


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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
While I do agree with you on some of your posts, there are other parts that I do not. Duke Johnson could tear his Achilles as did Foreman as could Damien Harris. Draftnik or not Damien Harris has as much upside as does Johnson. The latter does not have terms of NFL experience either. Sidebar, if we had selected Harris that would have taken him away from the Pats. I am always willing to up grade roster and like you think Johnson will do that. I am also hopeful as I said "after 2019 Higdon and Crockett can replace Miller and Johnson plus create cap space. "
1 of the things i've seen folks say about him is that he couldn't beat out Crowell or Hyde. & what i say to that is that that dude has had 3 head coaches (4 if you count greg williams short tenure last year) & 3 different general managers in his 4 years since he arrived in Cleveland & Its very probable that the guy never really was given a chance to show what he could do as a feature guy. So he doesn't have a lot of NFL experience, but hes still more experienced than any person we would've drafted this year. Further, at a minimum, what he has shown is that he can play and there is a place for him somewhere in this league as more than just what Cleveland was using him as.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I also have a huge problem with a coach, seemingly on the hot seat to some degree, trading future assets to fix short term problems that he helped create. One of the reasons few coaches have this kind of power is because their goals will always be short-term, and there has to be someone above them looking out for the future. I'm not really a fan of trading next year's draft to patch holes that you didn't fix in this year's off-season.
Very well put. So while the HC and GM should certainly work together, it seems there should also be a slight degree of tension for the sake of checks & balances and also like you say the coachs goals are shorter term than the GMs.
Those folks on the Board who want the Texans to trade for Trent Williams even if the price involves the 2020 1st round pick my be closer to having their way today as Bill O'Brien after the game last night in GB may feel the same way because he needs to win in 2019, this year, now.
 

Dejaview

Rookie
Lol..some of you guys i swear man.. We needed some rb depth & a guy that would enable us to pass it more to the rbs, & we went out & got 1 of the best available...the type of trade many of these same folks said wasn't going to happen b/c of supposed incompetence or just flat out conservatism. The "5 headed monster" just wasn't going to do it. Then, it happens. Now the talking point for these negative nancy's is " we gave up too much!...........the value is off etc"...

Listening to the morons on 97.5 this morning saying this exact thing..."the browns were gonna trade him anyway...why give up a 3rd/4th...the value was around a 4th -5th & we could've had him, i don't understand why they gave up what they gave up..".wah, wah, wah.

hey idiots, the value of something is whatever someone was willing to give up for it... & if the Pats or some other org got into an injury situation & had paid the exact same price to get him, these same idiots panning what we gave would've been up in arms b/c we needed the depth but we just weren't "aggressive" & too stupid...or whatever.

Furthermore, we've had 2-3 very experienced....& inexperienced GM's in the past...& none of those guys were exactly killing it with trades either.

All the draftniks talking about "well we could've gotten this rb in the draft... or that rb in the draft instead of giving up what we did to get Duke" Yeah well we did that already with Deonta Foreman... didn't pan out so great...Plus, none of those guys had played a down of NFL football. At least with Johnson we know that he can play & be very damn good in this league.

Dude could be very well worth what we gave up for him considering the absymal 3rd-4th round draft history of the Texans....Nix....Devier Posey, Brennan Williams...Jaeleen Strong, Deonta Foreman, Braxton Miller...Antwan Molden...Lol do i need to continue?
Yes....for the Mario comp pick...Sam Montgomery. Here is the dynamic with the negative morons. Before the trade it was all about how our current GM status is completely incapable of making trades, afraid to do so, all staffed by idiots, etc., nobody knows who to call on in our FO if they wanted to trade, etc and we completely botched the Foreman pick and even botched our first round draft pick by not picking a RB. Surprise. Trade made. Got the guy many here wanted. Furthermore it was started weeks ago when everyone said our FO didn’t have a clue or capacity to do so. Now, despite lunatic trade proposals to get Williams the morons are in panic mode. So the rhetoric now has to change to we paid too much and OB doesn’t know how to play him anyway. Just pathetic. Why get Williams then from that rhetoric. We will overpay and OB won’t know how to use Williams right? Take what they spew to its logical conclusion. Did we or did we not upgrade that position? The lunatics want to run this asylum and will stop at nothing to lie about and ridicule any poster or coach or even owner to solidify their bogus status based somehow on cynical negativity and number of posts to prove what great fans they are. No, you post that kind of crap for years you got issues that don’t stop at the keyboard. I wont be intimidated for pointing out their bullying bs and the shape shifting that can’t even provide a train of thought that holds for five minutes.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
A third round pick (which is what it will eventually be) is a ton to give up for a backup RB. But beggars can't be choosers. When you've put your depth chart in a shitty situation you're only going to get shitty offers. Cleveland had no reason to negotiate. One look at what we currently have at that position and they knew they had us by the balls.

I also have a huge problem with a coach, seemingly on the hot seat to some degree, trading future assets to fix short term problems that he helped create. One of the reasons few coaches have this kind of power is because their goals will always be short-term, and there has to be someone above them looking out for the future. I'm not really a fan of trading next year's draft to patch holes that you didn't fix in this year's off-season.

My biggest problem with the trade is that Duke Johnson is an even worse fit for this offense than Lamar Miller is. I like the player (quite a bit, actually). But I have zero confidence in this staff's ability to use him correctly. I think this would be a really good trade if we used our personnel in a manner that actually suited their skills.

We would have been better off trading a late pick for a battering ram, because that's all a RB seems to be to OB.

How is drafting a back up RB in the 3rd (Foreman) any different than trading for a back up RB............... with a 3rd?idonno: b/c see that's what this trade ultimately came down to.

The only possible thing anyone can say when they're making their case for the value being out of whack on this trade is by saying Foreman had the potential to be a bell cow back. But even then, the case is still flimsy in light of Foreman's questionable work ethic, injury and everything else. Aside from that, the only thing you can really base that on is him being bigger than Johnson weight wise. Nothing else he had or showed says that Foreman...or any of the other potential draft picks we could've had in Damien Harris or Josh Jacobs says that they would become anything other than a back up in the league. The other guys will certainly be given more of an opportunity to become more, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be.

Value is relative..

If we remain relatively healthy on offense & the offensive line is even a modicum better than they were last year, i'm calling it now, i think many are going to be surprised with our offense this year. This addition only adds to the intrigue for me. & yes i'm aware that this is a big if.

Some of what was done on offense last year was done out of pure necessity.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Just because a team has missed in the third doesn’t mean the value of the pick is in any way diminished. So if this team had whiffed on 1st rounders should they start throwing them out like last weeks meat loaf? There’s a reason this is the highest pick paid for a RB since Richardson, RBs don’t carry that much value, BoB over paid period, it was a panic move because they poorly planned for the position, put too much stock in Foreman, didn’t draft an RB or sign a guy. Now you pay a third, and on top of that the guy is gonna make big money for a RB.

You only have your picks and your salary to build your team, a finite set of resources, over paying for a player means you have less of these resources to fill other holes, and this team has some holes. Vastly overpaying in both aspects for a guy with little upside isn’t a smart move for long term success.

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Lol so b/c some outdated ass draft chart says the value should be this, thats it eh? Silly thinking especially in light of rbs being taken in the 1st round damn near every single year. No matter how much ya'll try to act like this is a big deal, it ain't. They basically swapped a 3rd round pick in Foreman for a 3rd round pick in Johnson.

Further this is just another example of only looking at the negative side. Lol at "big money". Dude is on a 3 year deal that will top out at 5 million a season. Hardly big money until the last year of the contract & you've given absolutely no thought to this guy maybe outperforming that contract with a good season or 2..o 3....which given his role already...which could possibly expand if injury strikes, that could actually happen. That contract would look like a bargain then, never mind a restructure that would lower his cap hit. You guys are just so caught up in your draft value chart, you don't realize that we may just have gotten a great bargain with this kid.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Tweet from @riversmccown: RB Targets by year for the Texans under Bill O'Brien:
2018: 67
2017: 86
2016: 83
2015: 114
2014: 90

RBs with more than 2.5 receptions per game: Arian Foster 2014, 2015 (four-game sample)

Duke Johnson has averaged 3.7 receptions per game in his career.
 

bah007

Hall of Fame
How is drafting a back up RB in the 3rd (Foreman) any different than trading for a back up RB............... with a 3rd?idonno: b/c see that's what this trade ultimately came down to.

The only possible thing anyone can say when they're making their case for the value being out of whack on this trade is by saying Foreman had the potential to be a bell cow back. But even then, the case is still flimsy in light of Foreman's questionable work ethic, injury and everything else. Aside from that, the only thing you can really base that on is him being bigger than Johnson weight wise. Nothing else he had or showed says that Foreman...or any of the other potential draft picks we could've had in Damien Harris or Josh Jacobs says that they would become anything other than a back up in the league. The other guys will certainly be given more of an opportunity to become more, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be.

Value is relative..

If we remain relatively healthy on offense & the offensive line is even a modicum better than they were last year, i'm calling it now, i think many are going to be surprised with our offense this year. This addition only adds to the intrigue for me. & yes i'm aware that this is a big if.

Some of what was done on offense last year was done out of pure necessity.
I don't like trading a future asset to solve a problem that we had all off-season to fix and never made any attempt to do so. I liked Foreman when we drafted him. He tore his achilles. That's a death sentence in my opinion. We had months to do something here and failed and now have to mortgage a small piece of our future to fix that mistake.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I don't like trading a future asset to solve a problem that we had all off-season to fix and never made any attempt to do so. I liked Foreman when we drafted him. He tore his achilles. That's a death sentence in my opinion. We had months to do something here and failed and now have to mortgage a small piece of our future to fix that mistake.
Also rookies are cheaper. More unproven as well of course, but a consideration.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
How is drafting a back up RB in the 3rd (Foreman) any different than trading for a back up RB............... with a 3rd?idonno: b/c see that's what this trade ultimately came down to.
Players are valued by ability not place on the depth chart. Foreman was widely expected to become the starter quickly, moving miller into a 3rd down role. Johnson may become starter when Miller's contract expires.[/QUOTE]

Lol so b/c some outdated ass draft chart says the value should be this, thats it eh?
Haven't actually run the numbers have you? I have on a ton of trades and the chart is still on.
 

jradMIT

Veteran
Lol so b/c some outdated ass draft chart says the value should be this, thats it eh? Silly thinking especially in light of rbs being taken in the 1st round damn near every single year. No matter how much ya'll try to act like this is a big deal, it ain't. They basically swapped a 3rd round pick in Foreman for a 3rd round pick in Johnson.

Further this is just another example of only looking at the negative side. Lol at "big money". Dude is on a 3 year deal that will top out at 5 million a season. Hardly big money until the last year of the contract & you've given absolutely no thought to this guy maybe outperforming that contract with a good season or 2..o 3....which given his role already...which could possibly expand if injury strikes, that could actually happen. That contract would look like a bargain then, never mind a restructure that would lower his cap hit. You guys are just so caught up in your draft value chart, you don't realize that we may just have gotten a great bargain with this kid.
Nothing outdated about it, this isn’t draft chart, this is the highest compensation for a running back since the Trent Richardson trade. They over paid period, back up running backs making the 11th highest average salary at the position in the league don’t warrant a 3rd round pick. The Texans process is all over the place, they didn’t properly address this in the off season like they should have, the fact that they didn’t know who Foreman was shows the utter lack of competence in the FO and/or direction.

There are a lot ifs here, if there is injury, if he out performs, etc, yet there is no if, that if he stays you will be paying a high salary for a RB. There is no if that the pick is gone. This guy is 26, does he have value ?absolutely, but is his value anywhere near what they paid? Definitely not. He’s been in the league for 4 years, it’s unlikely he’s gonna significantly improve his game. If you are paying him like a top 15 Rb and it cost a 3rd, the guy should be a bona fide 3 down RB who should be the unquestioned starter.

But that’s not what any of the people on here who are applauding this move are saying. Its if there’s injury, nobody is even suggesting he’s gonna take Millers job.

This was a panic move from OB, those who fail to plan, plan to fail, and make no mistake about it, this move is a short term move at the expense of the future, and even the most optimistic fan doesn’t think we are a Duke Johnson away from taking the next step.


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TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
In case no one has looked, Duke has averaged around 350 yards rushing and 600 yards receiving the past 3 years.

I like him but skeptical of this profile in this system at that price
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
Isnt it crazy that some folks think this guy is the next big thing but Cleveland saw him as totally expendable because they have not one but two guys better than him.

He is what he is, a really shiny band aid.

And we still dont have an effin thing at LT

Doesnt the line have to hold a block or two for a RB to get into the flat or slip through the line

Just sayin.....
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
His contract is for 4M 2020 and 5M 2021, or are you suggesting giving up a 3rd for one year of service of a backup RB?


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No I am saying his 2019 contract of GTD $1.8m is cheap for RB if he brings what he supposedly brings. While I am ok giving up 3rd round I would not have. Having said that I look to what would better the roster and that would be if Higdon can surpass Johnson allowing us to perhaps trade DH to recoup something and use DH's savings in 2020 of $ 4 million. IMO for DH to be on roster after this season he will have to be extremely productive and not just a filler for Miller when he rests. No way do I see LM in future seasons. Can DH be the feature back going forward with a Crockett type behind him? Most will say yes. I will say maybe.
 

jradMIT

Veteran
No I am saying his 2019 contract of GTD $1.8m is cheap for RB if he brings what he supposedly brings. While I am ok giving up 3rd round I would not have. Having said that I look to what would better the roster and that would be if Higdon can surpass Johnson allowing us to perhaps trade DH to recoup something and use DH's savings in 2020 of $ 4 million. IMO for DH to be on roster after this season he will have to be extremely productive and not just a filler for Miller when he rests. No way do I see LM in future seasons. Can DH be the feature back going forward with a Crockett type behind him? Most will say yes. I will say maybe.

I think this move all but says, he is replacing LM after this season. Spending a 3rd for depth at the RB for only one season doesn’t make sense. I think they expect him to play out the contract.



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Porky

Hall of Fame
I guess this is the spot for putting our thoughts on the record so here are mine.

Do I like the trade? Yes. So there's that but not without some caveats.

BOB and this team (as usual) had their head stuck up their ass this off-season and failed miserably. The best time to buy an umbrella is on a sunny day. The Texans bought theirs in a rain storm. The umbrella salesman always has the upper hand on a rainy day. How many RB's on the FA market that were freely available did they bring in or even attempt to sign? Bueller? Anyone? I mean the list was extensive and they didn't even try to sign anyone by all account. Then you had the draft and their idea of addressing the position was a couple of UDFA's.

Brilliant plan! If you plan is to fail that is.

But with the above stated and out of the way, if I judge the trade on where things stand now, and forget about the prior incompetence I like it.

We'll very likely have a couple of extra 3rds. Duke was originally a 3rd himself and how likely were we to find someone both better than Warring and better then Duke in the 3rd this year? Not too likely if you ask me.

And I like the idea of purchasing a known quantity. If y'all remember the old game show let's make a deal - they would put out a room full of furniture or something and then have a curtain. Monte Hall would say ok, you can have the new living room furniture (what you know), or you can take what's behind curtain #3 (what you don't know). Inevitably, the guy would say I'll take what's behind the curtain. They open the curtain and there's a freaking milk cow behind the curtain. Essentially, we're taking the furniture. Maybe there is a car behind the curtain - sure it's possible. But it's just as likely it's a cow. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

So just analyzing the trade itself - I'm fine with it under the circumstances. We waited for a rainy day and we bought the damn umbrella. So be it.

My fear is that this staff, and specifically buttchin, won't know how to use his new chess piece to the max. He's going to do what he always does and try to fit a round piece into a square hole and then everyone will raise hell saying he sucks, he's over-rated. No he doesn't suck but the coach employing him does. I truly hope I'm wrong, but history has a way of repeating itself.

All we can do is buckle in and enjoy the ride because Cal loves him some BOB.

Last thought - if the Texans aren't on the horn every day talking to the Redskins and doing whatever it takes to pry Trent from the Skins, then they are the most incompetent dopes on the planet.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I don't like trading a future asset to solve a problem that we had all off-season to fix and never made any attempt to do so. I liked Foreman when we drafted him. He tore his achilles. That's a death sentence in my opinion. We had months to do something here and failed and now have to mortgage a small piece of our future to fix that mistake.

Fair enough, But that’s a personal thing. Fact of the matter is it’s only a future "asset"b/c it has not yet been used. All the Texans did was use it now instead of in 2020. Doesn't necessarily change its value all it really does is sort of limit the pick's potential...but even that isn't a certain.

Players are valued by ability not place on the depth chart. Foreman was widely expected to become the starter quickly, moving miller into a 3rd down role. Johnson may become starter when Miller's contract expires.
[/QUOTE]

Nothing outdated about it, this isn’t draft chart, this is the highest compensation for a running back since the Trent Richardson trade. They over paid period, back up running backs making the 11th highest average salary at the position in the league don’t warrant a 3rd round pick.
Which is precisely why its outdated. If what you're saying is true, then there wouldn't be as much uproar around here. Fact is, his "ability" has been limited b/c of his situation..even still his production with what little time he's been able to get has been good. Furthermore, his ability should be based on what the players potential is/can be in your system, on your depth chart, not what it was where he was at. When i buy a stock, i'm not buying it thinking that's just where its going to stay, i'm buying it with an eye on where it can potentially rise. In this case, you mean to tell me that had we traded Arian Foster in 2009 when he was just a back up to Slaton/Moats/Brown that his "value" was only a 4th, 5th rounder? Of course you wouldn't & he obviously proved that it was much higher than that in subsequent seasons with us.

Also rookies are cheaper. More unproven as well of course, but a consideration.
Nothing to do with nothing really. I personally would want the proven commodity over the unproven even if it costs a little more in the short term.

There are a lot ifs here,
You're right, there are lots of ifs...................... on both sides of this though. Ya'll are assuming "if" we don't give up the 3rd, we get better value with a drafted player or trade it elsewhere for someone else........"if" he didn't/couldn't beat out Crowell/Hyde he must not be a 3 down back & therefore not worth a 3...well smaller guys like Brian Westbrook, MJD & Darren Sproles all say that a guys value isn't always tied to how often he carries a ball from out of the backfield.
 
Last edited:

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I guess this is the spot for putting our thoughts on the record so here are mine.

Do I like the trade? Yes. So there's that but not without some caveats.

BOB and this team (as usual) had their head stuck up their ass this off-season and failed miserably. The best time to buy an umbrella is on a sunny day. The Texans bought theirs in a rain storm. The umbrella salesman always has the upper hand on a rainy day. How many RB's on the FA market that were freely available did they bring in or even attempt to sign? Bueller? Anyone? I mean the list was extensive and they didn't even try to sign anyone by all account. Then you had the draft and their idea of addressing the position was a couple of UDFA's.

Brilliant plan! If you plan is to fail that is.

But with the above stated and out of the way, if I judge the trade on where things stand now, and forget about the prior incompetence I like it.

We'll very likely have a couple of extra 3rds. Duke was originally a 3rd himself and how likely were we to find someone both better than Warring and better then Duke in the 3rd this year? Not too likely if you ask me.

And I like the idea of purchasing a known quantity. If y'all remember the old game show let's make a deal - they would put out a room full of furniture or something and then have a curtain. Monte Hall would say ok, you can have the new living room furniture (what you know), or you can take what's behind curtain #3 (what you don't know). Inevitably, the guy would say I'll take what's behind the curtain. They open the curtain and there's a freaking milk cow behind the curtain. Essentially, we're taking the furniture. Maybe there is a car behind the curtain - sure it's possible. But it's just as likely it's a cow. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

So just analyzing the trade itself - I'm fine with it under the circumstances. We waited for a rainy day and we bought the damn umbrella. So be it.

My fear is that this staff, and specifically buttchin, won't know how to use his new chess piece to the max. He's going to do what he always does and try to fit a round piece into a square hole and then everyone will raise hell saying he sucks, he's over-rated. No he doesn't suck but the coach employing him does. I truly hope I'm wrong, but history has a way of repeating itself.

All we can do is buckle in and enjoy the ride because Cal loves him some BOB.

Last thought - if the Texans aren't on the horn every day talking to the Redskins and doing whatever it takes to pry Trent from the Skins, then they are the most incompetent dopes on the planet.
It actually sounds like he excels in the slot receiver role which would mean some overlap with Coutee
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Isnt it crazy that some folks think this guy is the next big thing but Cleveland saw him as totally expendable because they have not one but two guys better than him.

He is what he is, a really shiny band aid.

And we still dont have an effin thing at LT

Doesnt the line have to hold a block or two for a RB to get into the flat or slip through the line

Just sayin.....
Yep, when you sign Hunt Duke became obsolete.

The difference in an org that tries to put the best players possible on the team vs what the Texans org does
 


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