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Texans Schemes?

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I wish that were the case. Definitely a misconception we (fans, myself anyway) had when he was announced as our HC.

But NE was only a small part of BO'bs coaching history. George O'Leary was O'brien's mentor & he's been trying to form the Texans as Georgia Tech/UCF...

Nothing he's done here resembles NE. Far as I can tell.

Please explain to me why are we hiring nothing but ex Patriots coaches and ex players transitioning over to coaching. We are basically trying to run the same type of offensive philosophy.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Please explain to me why are we hiring nothing but ex Patriots coaches and ex players transitioning over to coaching.
We talking about the motivational speaker?

RAC & Vrabel, yeah they're following the New England way & it seems to be working. Offensively, not so much.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
We talking about the motivational speaker?

RAC & Vrabel, yeah they're following the New England way & it seems to be working. Offensively, not so much.

They also hired Wes.

And it did not workout as planned with Vrabel. Defense went from top 3 to last place when he took over DC duties
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
They also hired Wes.

And it did not workout as planned with Vrabel. Defense went from top 3 to last place when he took over DC duties
So first you said we were trying to implement NE here in Houston because we've brought in exPatriots. I agreed defensively because RAC & Vrabel coached the defense pretty much the way they do in NE.

Perhaps the disconnect here is that you believe NE always has a top 3 defense.

So yeah, we brought Welker in. He stayed for a year. We also had Sean Ryan for two or three years, but he left as well. For a lateral move. Guy had the credentials to be an OC... we need an OC, he left.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
So first you said we were trying to implement NE here in Houston because we've brought in exPatriots. I agreed defensively because RAC & Vrabel coached the defense pretty much the way they do in NE.

Perhaps the disconnect here is that you believe NE always has a top 3 defense.

So yeah, we brought Welker in. He stayed for a year. We also had Sean Ryan for two or three years, but he left as well. For a lateral move. Guy had the credentials to be an OC... we need an OC, he left.

Bill O'Brien is trying to run the same offensive philosophy. Those gents were brought in to help Obrien drive in that type of offense.
 

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
The Patriots are cancer and we've willingly injected that cancer into our bloodstream.

It's long past time to radiate that ****.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I wish that were the case. Definitely a misconception we (fans, myself anyway) had when he was announced as our HC.

But NE was only a small part of BO'bs coaching history. George O'Leary was O'brien's mentor & he's been trying to form the Texans as Georgia Tech/UCF...

Nothing he's done here resembles NE. Far as I can tell.
& nothing ever will here or anywhere else in the NFL for that matter unless both Belichick & Brady go to another team..As Jay-Z said that's a "1 of 1, none before it, none to come". So anyone who thought BoB was gonna come close to duplicating that here in NE was delusional.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
& nothing ever will here or anywhere else in the NFL for that matter unless both Belichick & Brady go to another team..As Jay-Z said that's a "1 of 1, none before it, none to come". So anyone who thought BoB was gonna come close to duplicating that here in NE was delusional.
:ok:
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Well darnit the entire Texans brass and it's media heads along with the NFL were delusional as hell. Because they were the main ones pushing that narrative and the Texans brass keeps hiring jokers from that organization.
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Well darnit the entire Texans brass and it's media heads along with the NFL were delusional as hell. Because they were main ones pushing that narrative and the Texans brass keeps hiring jokers from that organization.
FIY, it's dammit, they lead us to believe it would be different this go-around

:tiphat:
 

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
Yeah 6 Superb Owl trophies in the recent past is a cancer, why would the Texans want to emulate that? ..smh
Because we don't have Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, an offensive line or a horseshoe up our asses?

But yeah, ex-Patriots coaches have been super successful yeah. Five years in and we have zero fuckin' identity and do literally nothing like the Patriots except the faux-cutthroat super secretive bullshit Bill O'Brien tries to pull. Yeah I'm sure it'll happen sometime.


And "duplicating that here" is the entire ******* rationale for why the ******* guy was hired and fellated and continues to be fellated by some people to this day. What a crock of revisionist, gaslighting bullshit.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Because we don't have Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, an offensive line or a horseshoe up our asses?

But yeah, ex-Patriots coaches have been super successful yeah. Five years in and we have zero fuckin' identity and do literally nothing like the Patriots except the faux-cutthroat super secretive bullshit Bill O'Brien tries to pull. Yeah I'm sure it'll happen sometime.


And "duplicating that here" is the entire ******* rationale for why the ******* guy was hired and fellated and continues to be fellated by some people to this day. What a crock of revisionist, gaslighting bullshit.
Your comment I quoted was that the Patriots were a cancer, not an OB rant. What you really meant was that the Texans are a cancer in your eyes. Fair enough I guess, but don't act like it's the Patriots fault as you did in your "Patriots are a cancer" comment. You could have said OB sucks and I wouldn't have bothered to quote you. I don't agree with you that the Patriots are the cause of the Texans current woes, or that the Texans need to stop trying to be successful. Maybe you should quit beating round the bush and say what you really mean.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
I think runs the Erhardt-Perkins offense, or at least tries to. But what has always confused me is how OBrien is run first despite belichick not having been run first in a long time. Even when OBrien had a good OL when he first got here he was run first.

From Wikipedia:


The Patriots run a modified "Ron Erhardt-Ray Perkins" offensive system[1] first installed by Charlie Weis under Bill Belichick. Both Ron Erhardt and Ray Perkins served as offensive assistant coaches under the defensive-minded Chuck Fairbanks while he was head coach of the Patriots in the 1970s.[1] This system is noted for its multiple formation and personnel grouping variations on a core number of base plays. Under this system, each formation and each play are separately numbered. Additional word descriptions further modify each play.

Running gameEdit
The Erhardt-Perkins system traditionally had a reputation[citation needed]of being a smash-mouth offense that maximizes a team's time of possession and does not frequently call upon its running backs to serve as receivers.[2] Erhardt often said, "throw to score, run to win."[3]This may have been especially true during the years Bill Parcells ran this system as the head coach of the New York Giants.[4] This system was thought[by whom?] to be particularly well suited for teams playing in harsh outdoor weather conditions of the northeast of the United States.[citation needed]

An example of a running play under this system is Zero, Ride Thirty-six. Zero sets the formation. Thirty indicates who will be the ball carrier running with the ball. Six indicates which hole between the offensive linemen the ball carrier will attempt to run through (see Offensive Nomenclature).[citation needed]

Passing gameEdit
This offense traditionally used the run to set up the pass via play-action passing, faking the run in order to throw deep downfield when the defense is least expecting it. Despite its earlier reputation, this system is no longer a run first offense. Erhardt commonly ran the system in his later years spread wide open with multiple receivers (earning the moniker "Air Erhardt"), as NFL rules evolved to benefit the passing game. As a result of this influence, the Patriots will frequently run this offense with five potential receivers and an empty backfield should a favorable matchup present itself or as a function of available personnel. With the addition of Randy Moss and Wes Welker to the Patriots offense in 2007, the Patriots placed an emphasis on a wide open passing attack (with record setting results).[5] As rules of the NFL have loosened to favor the offense, the Patriots have increasingly adopted a wide open approach, to the point that they are often now thought of as a short pass first team. The Patriots have also made good extensive use of the non huddle offense to tire out defensive personnel and to disallow substitutions.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
I checked back into this thread because I haven't received ANY PM's on this. I read through it and just what I thought....nope, no scheme!
The scheme was to get you to check this thread again - it worked.

On a side note and completely unrelated to your post - there are some folks on here that seriously need to evaluate if being a fan of anything is worth the amount of stress and angst it seems to cause them.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I think runs the Erhardt-Perkins offense, or at least tries to. But what has always confused me is how OBrien is run first despite belichick not having been run first in a long time. Even when OBrien had a good OL when he first got here he was run first.
The stats as shown here in several gameday threads and elsewhere in other ways show that he is more of a balanced playcaller that actually leans more towards the pass than the run. This falls in line with 2 guys that he's gone on record and said he learned alot of his offensive stuff from in George O'leary & Ralph Friedgen at GT/Maryland..the latter being legendary for his balanced attack-type playcalling. He spent just as much time there as he did with Belichick in NE.

As for the Pats, it hasn't been Brady just dropping back 30+ times a game for the last 15 years. they have been run heavy/1st.......whatever when they've needed to be. That's why guys like Steven Ridley & Legarette Blount can come out of nowhere for them 1 year & rush for 1400 yards and double digit TD's on 300 attempts as recently as 2016 and be noone the next year. why an off-brand dude like Jonas Gray can run for 4 TD's in a game & never be heard from again.

They run a modified E-P scheme that is heavily influenced by what Brady can do & the match up nightmare Gronk presented.

Reid runs a modified WCO scheme & is known as a "genius" playcaller/designer. His scheme looked ok with Alex Smith. It absolutely exploded with a Mahomes level talent running it & the talent all over it.
 

Earl34

Rookie
It’s a nebulous mixture of the original E+P scheme, with a dash of the modified version being run by the Patriots, with a sprinkle of concepts from O’Leary’s Georgia Tech offenses.

At the end of the day, it’s a multiple formation offense designed to disguise a run up the middle with WRs winning their one on one matchups with minimum combination routes or pick plays to take advantage of the modern NFL passing rules.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
It’s a nebulous mixture of the original E+P scheme, with a dash of the modified version being run by the Patriots, with a sprinkle of concepts from O’Leary’s Georgia Tech offenses.

At the end of the day, it’s a multiple formation offense designed to disguise a run up the middle with WRs winning their one on one matchups with minimum combination routes or pick plays to take advantage of the modern NFL passing rules.
Lots of ISO routes for the WRs
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
Those are some excellent posts, thank you, Gentlemen. Maybe you can comment on something I've been wondering. With an ever-growing number of NFL players with extensive experience in and suitability for wide open College offenses, why don't we see more of that in the NFL? Is it because guys like BoB are older guys sticking to old ways?
Sorry, I'm not sure what specifically to call those College offenses...spread? ...but I know they have names and different concepts. I guess that's why guys like Kliff Kingsbury are getting HC jobs. Can't BoB adapt and adopt?
 
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Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Those are some excellent posts, thank you, Gentlemen. Maybe you can comment on something I've been wondering. With an ever-growing number of NFL players with extensive experience in and suitability for wide open College offenses, why don't we see more of that in the NFL? Is it because guys like BoB are older guys sticking to old ways?
Sorry, I'm not sure what specifically to call those College offenses...spread? ...but I know they have names and different concepts. I guess that's why guys like Kliff Kingsbury are getting HC jobs. Can't BoB adapt and adopt?
I think the NFL dreads the turnover, and wide open seems more risky. Also can hurt your TOP and tire out your defense, so they go wide open in spots. In the NFL, guys are not near as open, and wide open also means your franchise QB may be getting whacked with minimal protection. So probably TOP, turnovers, and QB lifespan
 

Earl34

Rookie
I think the NFL dreads the turnover, and wide open seems more risky. Also can hurt your TOP and tire out your defense, so they go wide open in spots. In the NFL, guys are not near as open, and wide open also means your franchise QB may be getting whacked with minimal protection. So probably TOP, turnovers, and QB lifespan
Agree with your comments. Also, Chip Kelly tried it with his offense, a nutrition program and even sports science. It didn't matter because NFL rosters do not have the depth of college rosters. The 16 game schedule, the defensive speed and the ability of opposing defenses to adjust. It's just not sustainable.

It will be interesting to see what Kingsbury incorporates into the Cardinals offense
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
Knowing that Watson will learn and expand his skillset, I still want the offense to incorporate what he does best and what comes most naturally. Modify it a bit, tweak it here and there, but too much too fast will be counter-productive. I wonder how wise and adaptable...maybe even innovative...BOB will prove to be.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
So, will BOB copy and borrow and adapt what works with Mahomes and a few others, along what will be tried by Kingsbury? Our scheme obviously needs a lot of work. I also wonder if BOB is already inclined to try new ideas but has been held back by personnel limitations. I guess we'll find out. I can hardly wait to see what the newly drafted players will allow BOB to do with the scheme...if he's so inclined. The buck does stop at his desk, right?
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
So, will BOB copy and borrow and adapt what works with Mahomes and a few others, along what will be tried by Kingsbury? Our scheme obviously needs a lot of work. I also wonder if BOB is already inclined to try new ideas but has been held back by personnel limitations. I guess we'll find out. I can hardly wait to see what the newly drafted players will allow BOB to do with the scheme...if he's so inclined. The buck does stop at his desk, right?

No he is not about to run what's being ran in KC. He is hell bent on running his version of the E+P.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
To be clear, I'm not advocating for O'Brien to be fired right now, because that's not going to happen no matter what this MB has to say. I am advocating that he grows as a coach and takes his scheme forward with him.
I guess I've kicked that horse enough for now. But tomorrow is a new day and I like stating the obvious with great authority. That's why my MB name is what it is.
 

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
I don't know why everyone wants a set scheme... OB told us when he was hired that he was going to run a 'game plan' offense that would change every week depending on opponent. Most seemed to like it at the time, but now they want consistency?
The Texans could run the wing-T or the veer and if the Texans put up 30 points a game most fans (even on this board) would not be worried about the darn scheme. There is the naive negative crowd always find something bytch about, but that's their problem.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
What scheme?
Coach OB has a plan in his mind, but because we can't categorize it, we're just not sure what it is. He knows what he wants to do week to week, based on the opponent and what he sees as the Texans strengths and weaknesses. All of those things shift at least a bit from week to week. But he does have conceptual ideas he wants to implement, and that constitutes a bag of schemes, a hodge-podge of schemes, so to speak, from which he picks and chooses. He thinks being flexible gives his team an advantage. The results of that approach have been hit or miss, for sure. Only time will tell if he gets better at it.

As many here have said, much better than I can, I'd really like to see more 3 step drops with quick releases to crossing patterns, RBs, and WRs before the defense locks in. But he has a scheme...a plan...in his mind... it's just not what most of us on this MB want to see.
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Coach OB has a plan in his mind, but because we can't categorize it, we're just not sure what it is. He knows what he wants to do week to week, based on the opponent and what he sees as the Texans strengths and weaknesses. All of those things shift at least a bit from week to week. But he does have conceptual ideas he wants to implement, and that constitutes a bag of schemes, a hodge-podge of schemes, so to speak, from which he picks and chooses. He thinks being flexible gives his team an advantage. The results of that approach have been hit or miss, for sure. Only time will tell if he gets better at it.

As many here have said, much better than I can, I'd really like to see more 3 step drops with quick releases to crossing patterns, RBs, and WRs before the defense locks in. But it doesn't mean he doesn't have a scheme because those things aren't high on his list.
I think he depends on everyone on the offense seeing the same thing (the defense) is doing a bit too much and we have never had consistent players across the board to grow together. E-P is not simple to learn when pieces are changing year to year and sometimes game to game. Everyone has to see the same and think the same, and that clearly has not been happening... ie. Hopkins failing to look for the quick pass on an obvious blitz, or Watson not recognizing an obvious free blitzer from the CB/S position. He can call great plays, but if all 11 don't do their job it fails and looks worse than high school offense
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Knowing that Watson will learn and expand his skillset, I still want the offense to incorporate what he does best and what comes most naturally. Modify it a bit, tweak it here and there, but too much too fast will be counter-productive. I wonder how wise and adaptable...maybe even innovative...BOB will prove to be.
Don't know why people think OB is going to change after 5 years.

I don't know why everyone wants a set scheme... OB told us when he was hired that he was going to run a 'game plan' offense that would change every week depending on opponent. Most seemed to like it at the time, but now they want consistency?
Can't say I ever thought much of that idea. Do something, be good at it and make teams adjust to you. This game plan bullshit is just that, bullshit. Sure, you tweak things depending on your opponent, try to exploit their weaknesses, but identify with something, get good at it, and be that.

For 5 years, whatever "scheme" OB is trying to run he either hasn't brought in the personnel to run it and/or the personnel he does bring in doesn't fit what he's trying to do. So afraid Watson's career will be wasted away because OB won't adapt to what Watson does well and instead forces him to run this game plan no identity bullshit that he's determined as **** to run.

OB is crap for innovation, adaptability, and design. And he hasn't proven to be much better in talent evaluation either. How this guy got a freaking 4 year extension just blows me away.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Don't know why people think OB is going to change after 5 years.


Can't say I ever thought much of that idea. Do something, be good at it and make teams adjust to you.
Yes, but the Lombardi days of having 3 basic run plays are over. Colleges now-a-days aren't preparing players for the NFL offense as they used to and OB is complicating the issue
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Yes, but the Lombardi days of having 3 basic run plays are over. Colleges now-a-days aren't preparing players for the NFL offense as they used to and OB is complicating the issue
Yes, he absolutely is complicating the issue by having his offensive mindset set in stone. No innovation, no adapting. And I don't care if all you have is 3 running plays, if defenses aren't stopping it, then that's what you do. Kubiak would play-action you to death, but it worked.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
I'm hoping the new QB coach (who really is new to the Texans and hopefully will be a breath of fresh air) and the new OC (who may be more stale air than fresh) will influence OB into more successful "schemes" and the players into more success running those "schemes". Improved schemes, improved coaching, better players...I'm excited by the prospects and expect a lot of entertainment value out of this season.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Yes, he absolutely is complicating the issue by having his offensive mindset set in stone. No innovation, no adapting. And I don't care if all you have is 3 running plays, if defenses aren't stopping it, then that's what you do. Kubiak would play-action you to death, but it worked.
As we all know, OB is no Kubiak
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
I'm hoping the new QB coach (who really is new to the Texans and hopefully will be a breath of fresh air) and the new OC (who may be more stale air than fresh) will influence OB into more successful "schemes" and the players into more success running those "schemes". Improved schemes, improved coaching, better players...I'm excited by the prospects and expect a lot of entertainment value out of this season.
Hope you're not holding your breath
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
I choose to hold out hope and look for the good, for the silver lining in dark clouds. That's my scheme. It works for me.
I anticipate OB's game planning and the play calling (the scheme, if you will) will adjust this year. That will be fun to watch for and think about as it unfolds week to week, and no, I'm not holding my breath.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
I choose to hold out hope and look for the good, for the silver lining in dark clouds. That's my scheme. It works for me.
I anticipate OB's game planning and the play calling (the scheme, if you will) will adjust this year. That will be fun to watch for and think about as it unfolds week to week, and no, I'm not holding my breath.
How refreshing!
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
Back to OB's scheme, it might be described as "Expect the Expected". If I can often predict the next play, the opponent's DC surely can. It would help a lot if OB's play-calling incorporated real surprises, enough to change the description to "Expect the Unexpected".
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Back to OB's scheme, it might be described as "Expect the Expected". If I can often predict the next play, the opponent's DC surely can. It would help a lot if OB's play-calling incorporated real surprises, enough to change the description to "Expect the Unexpected".
That comes back on the players imo
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What scheme?
The Watson, Hopkins, Fuller, & Coutee better stay healthy scheme.

I don't know why everyone wants a set scheme... OB told us when he was hired that he was going to run a 'game plan' offense that would change every week depending on opponent. Most seemed to like it at the time, but now they want consistency?
I'm not looking for consistency. Just evidence that our game plan attacks our opponents weakness.
 


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