Vinny
shiny happy fan
It doesn't hurt that he can actually hit a WR in stride or over the top in the end zone.
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"Texans' QB Case Keenum earns Chiefs' respect with Poise, Big Plays"
- Thread starter IDEXAN
- Start date
yeah, but can Keenum throw a 7 yard pass on a 3rd & 10? That is a crucial play for QBs in Kubiak's scheme.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
yeah, but can Keenum throw a 7 yard pass on a 3rd & 10? That is a crucial play for QBs in Kubiak's scheme.
OK, that made me LOL
By signing Schaub, you open the door for Keenum. If the Texans went out to get another QB they most likely would have drafted another QB who would have also been ahead of Keenum on the depth chart.
Schaub won 12 games last year & we won a play-off game. Worth the money to me.
That contract said, "I can get Case ready for 2014 if Schaub doesn't win a Super Bowl before that."
There's no way Tj would have been our starter had we not signed Schaub. There's no way Keenum would have been our starter, or our #2 if we had not signed Schaub.
If we signed a Veteran, then drafted a 1st day QB, that's position 1 & 2 right there. Maybe Keenum beats Tj for the scout team job, but I doubt it.
That's some cold sh!t, DByeah, but can Keenum throw a 7 yard pass on a 3rd & 10? That is a crucial play for QBs in Kubiak's scheme.
(hehehehehehehe)
On the other hand, my humble strategy was to take two among Wilson, Cousins, and Keenum (preferrably Keenum and Wilson).
Wilson played in both the pro and WCO; Cousins played in a hybrid version if the two systems. But I like Keenum's moxy.
Let them two duke it out with Schaub and Yates.
I don't dislike Yates, but I have always thought that Wilson and Keenum are better.
We might be able to strike a more team-friendly deal with Schaub.
I would trade Yates in that off-season.
It didn't matter to me whether Wilson or Keenum becomes the eventual starter; I'm no UH homer. I let it be known that I would be in euphoria if the Texans take them two.
Lord Bills
Destruction
It was a huge mistake. Considering they chose Schaub over Manning.
You are just looking at it from your perspective. If we didnt resign matt schaub maybe we go after Peyton and make the necessary roster moves to do so. Maybe we draft a qb like Russell Wilson instead of wasting another year hoping schaub can lead us.
Seeing as how Keenum basically won or at the very least had a draw vs Yates this preseason, maybe Keenum starts the season instead of schaub and we find our new future qb and instead we use that money we used on schaub on other parts of the team.
Based on Keenum's play in the chiefs and preseason, he would have played either way. To say signing schaub opened the door for keenum is a stretch.
absolutely agree. but then again, Wilson would have outplayed schaub or yates and still be relegated to #3 qb.
Duane brown still wants Schaub. He made that clear.
Dre didn't say who he wanted, but I think he wants keenum. After the game, the way he sounded and the way he talked about him. And he even re-iterated: "like I said, it's just something about him"
That's pretty strong coming from Dre.
Dre didn't say who he wanted, but I think he wants keenum. After the game, the way he sounded and the way he talked about him. And he even re-iterated: "like I said, it's just something about him"
That's pretty strong coming from Dre.
Lord Bills
Destruction
Dre is done with schaub. You can figure that out just reading between the lines on what Dre is saying. You can see it when stephen a smith was clowning schaub in front of dre's face when dre did a segment on first take.
Dre is done with schaub and so are a lot of players who just dont want to admit it publicly. If fans who dont really have any real stake in the team is fed up with schaub, what do you think about players who put their lives on the line, who put in the work relentlessly, who actually have real stakes on the line?
They maybe towing the company line but you can bet more than a few feel the same way about schaub.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Heard the sound bite on 610 yesterday. He didn't say he wanted him exactly. Just said he deserves to be the starter for what he has done in the past. Basically Kubiak speak
I saw it on csn last night. He said, case played great and he has a bright future but I think Schaub is the guy to lead this team. You can't ignore how good he's been for us in the past. Schaub is the right guy for the job and it's who I think should lead this team going forward.
Or something pretty close. But yeah, it was very clear that he preferred Schaub be the guy and wasn't jumping on the keenum train just yet.
I agree just based on how the team played with Keenum under center.
Even though they lost, it appeared to me that they were playing with a passion that we have not seen in the first 6 games, comeback wins included.
Nobody can tell me that they "believe" in a gimpy QB that just set an NFL record with pick 6's. Company line aside, it's just not human nature to want to keep an obvious weak link that is hurting the cause.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Look no further than the Seattle game.
With Schaub, many players believe the season is done. With Keenum, there's a shred of hope.
I remember a point that Texans Chick made a while back: For an organization to maximize its potential, everyone from the owner to the player has to be on board with the team philosophy. If a single player isn't buying into it, that player is a weak link. I believe that also happens when a player doesn't buy into the quarterback.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I recall her not buying into our current QB. She's not commented on him since his start in KC, near as I can tell.
I think she said she wasn't surprised by the game he had, but it's strange because before the season she said in camp he didn't do anything special.
She was pissed when the article about case grabbing an early edge came out.
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speedfreek
All Pro
Something doesn't jive with her knocks on Keenum..
It's understandable to be skeptical about him last year, or
during the preseason -- but at this point he's the best thing
we have to roll out in the QB position.
I'd wager "TexansChick" is a Texas alumna who has a latent
hate for all of the local hero love Keenum gets and is probably
bitter that VY never got his turn in a Texans uni.
Just my "freud-ish" take on it..
TJ
It's understandable to be skeptical about him last year, or
during the preseason -- but at this point he's the best thing
we have to roll out in the QB position.
I'd wager "TexansChick" is a Texas alumna who has a latent
hate for all of the local hero love Keenum gets and is probably
bitter that VY never got his turn in a Texans uni.
Just my "freud-ish" take on it..
TJ
If anything I'd bet she was an Aggie.
I don't think she was in favor of drafting Young though..... she'd have taken Young over Reggie Bush, I would too, but she was "real" about the situation & knew the Texans were going to stick with Carr.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I disagree with her take.. while it's true this isn't "Schaub vs Keenum", it is past vs possible future, as in who can possibly be the future "captain" of this team. The fact that the titanic already has hit the iceberg is irrelevent as Keenum wasn't at the wheel when it hit.. we need to find out if he's capable of navigating the next ship through icy waters and this is a conversation i find very engaging, because the future of our team depends on finding that guy. The season might be "over", but there's still things that need to be done, like player evaluation and it's important we get it right.
I also don't see how people can criticize Keenum for 5 sacks when the chiefs do that to everybody and it didn't start happening to the kid until his running threat all, but disapeared and the chiefs were free to pin their ears back.
I also don't see how people can criticize Keenum for 5 sacks when the chiefs do that to everybody and it didn't start happening to the kid until his running threat all, but disapeared and the chiefs were free to pin their ears back.
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Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I'm not picking on her, I just said I don't agree with this take... there's been plenty others I have agreed with though.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I think AJ about had a heart attack when he was hit in FULL STRIDE without having to slow down on the ball last Sunday. I for one am sick of all the sit down routes and come backs that Schaub seemingly has to have to be successful. The heart of the wco is hitting guys in stride....not a Schaub strength.
Kubiak said that on the long aj reception it was supposed to be a three step drop. He said keenum didn't like his initial read and so he started moving around. Dre stuck his hand up to say he was breaking off and going deep...case found him.
I think there were several things that happened on that play that aj wasn't used to....LOL.
I can't remember the last time aj got to break a route off, go deep and get hit on the money.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Keenum had the highest QB rating in that stadium this season. That defense pinned 10 sacks on a "duel threat" QB the week before. If Kubiak goes with Schaub for the Indy game, he will lose any remaining support from the fanbase. Even if Schaub wins. The fans were already dissatisfied with Schaub's ceiling, but this year they've had the unfortunate experience of witnessing a worse attribute: the depth of his floor.
I bet it's the most fun AJ has had in a long time. If we can't get AJ a ring, we should at least get him a QB that enables him to enjoy the game.
OzzO
.. and then?
It did seem like AJ was having some fun out there. Seem to recall more positive emotion and a few smiles on his face during the game.
houstonspartan
All Pro
I have accused Texans Chick of being too "pro-Kubiak" (even though I do think she's very, very smart).
In this piece, however, I agree with her. If you read the whole thing, she was saying that we need to take a step back and look at the "big picture" of the future of this team, and - if you do that - things look grim.
Yes, we're all into the Keenum love this week. But, taking a step back and looking at the overall team, things look pretty rough. If we don't make the playoffs this year, we will have to make hard decisions about our coach and GM, AND, we will likely have to let several players walk, AND - and here's the big one - we're right up against the salary cap and will be for the next few years.
So her point was, we have to win NOW. If we don't win now, which doesn't look like it's going to happen, we are screwed - regardless of who we have under center.
Keeping Kubiak after 2010 was a grave, massive mistake that has backed this team into a corner.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think people are going to be very disappointed and the only "big" change will be at QB.
Texans chick is one the 5-10 most consistently objective posters on this board. Unlike you she would have never made a lazy she's a Horn so she does not like Keenum post.
That's basically what Texans Chick said. She admitted that Schaub was done, which surprised me coming from her.
And what really surprised me was that she openly questioned whether Smithiak should be brought back. The "right conversation" is whether McNair stays status quo or goes a new direction. If a new organization is brought in, they may bring in their QB, and the Keenum experiment is moot.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
If Schaub gets sacked four times in the fourth quarter while only getting one first down, irregardless of the RB situation, in a one point loss where the defense allowed only 17 points... he would be crucified.
Keenum does it and he is hailed as having an amazing game and crowned the franchise QB of the future. Lots of leniency being given to Case with the RB injuries, the KC crowd, the KC defense being able to go off on the passing game, etc.
In the end it was still a loss, with multiple opportunities in a close game that were not realized. Twice got inside the 30 and settled for FG's. Once got down to the 3 yard line and settled for a FG. Negative yards in the fourth quarter.
Moral victories don't count, and he didn't get it done any more than Schaub has been getting it done. Nice stats, and some decent long throws and footwork, so we all feel good about the same result with a different QB.
I remember when everyone here thought that TJ was going to push Schaub for the starting job last year. Now it's all about Case. The franchise QB for the Texans is not on this roster, we just want to believe he is so that we can move away from Schaub. That, and the Cougar homerism. IMHO, none of our three current QB's will be the starting QB next season.
Keenum does it and he is hailed as having an amazing game and crowned the franchise QB of the future. Lots of leniency being given to Case with the RB injuries, the KC crowd, the KC defense being able to go off on the passing game, etc.
In the end it was still a loss, with multiple opportunities in a close game that were not realized. Twice got inside the 30 and settled for FG's. Once got down to the 3 yard line and settled for a FG. Negative yards in the fourth quarter.
Moral victories don't count, and he didn't get it done any more than Schaub has been getting it done. Nice stats, and some decent long throws and footwork, so we all feel good about the same result with a different QB.
I remember when everyone here thought that TJ was going to push Schaub for the starting job last year. Now it's all about Case. The franchise QB for the Texans is not on this roster, we just want to believe he is so that we can move away from Schaub. That, and the Cougar homerism. IMHO, none of our three current QB's will be the starting QB next season.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Then lets let Keenum start a few more times to prove that correct. Right now we know Schaub and Yates aren't, but Keenum has yet to absolutely prove that point either way.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I don't disagree. But you could say that about any backup or PS guy or off the street guy. He's not special just because he is a local kid or doing it for our team. The odds are stacked well against him, and while I want him to be successful because I want the team to win, I'm not drinking the koolaid about a short UDFA QB from a gimmick offense and ready to hail him as the face of the franchise after one game like some people are around here.
speedfreek
All Pro
"If Schaub gets sacked four times in the fourth quarter while only getting one first down, irregardless of the RB situation, in a one point loss where the defense allowed only 17 points... he would be crucified."
..Is a specious argument.
Total fallacy to believe Schaub would have been within one point and even have a chance at a game winning drive.
Anyone that believes that did not pay enough attention during the Rams game.
TJ
..Is a specious argument.
Total fallacy to believe Schaub would have been within one point and even have a chance at a game winning drive.
Anyone that believes that did not pay enough attention during the Rams game.
TJ
sandman
Brexit Advisor
You must have missed the end of the only two victories the Texans have this year. Pretty sure that was Schaub leading two end of game scoring drives for the win.
Technically he was down more than one point in both games, so the explicit "one point" in your straw man argument still has validity, even if the overall tone of your post holds no merit.
Like Keenum, you get a moral victory!
First I'll say I was behind the get rid of Kubiak after 2010...
Second, I disagree. We'll be up against the cap next season, but 2015 the cap will finally go up. The players got screwed on the CBA, especially where the cap is concerned. The Texans made an assumption, they gambled & it bit them in the butt.
But we're up against the cap because we've got good players & they're being paid accordingly. We'll be up against the cap next season, because we've got a few more contracts due.
& I don't care what anybody says, $10M a year for a starting QB is a good deal. Prior to 2013 Matt Schaub was easily comparable to Flacco, Ryan, & Romo, all of which got $100M (~ $16-$20M/yr) deals & if you're objective about it, you'll admit Matt has looked healthier & more mobile than he has in years.
Matt Schaub hasn't performed to expectation, Brown hasn't played up to expectation, Antonio & Jjo hasn't played up to expectations, Wade hasn't played up to his contract, & while the Texans' plans for RT & LG looked promising in the preseason, neither panned out. OLB... a couple more gambles that didn't pan out.
2011 & 2012 were Kubiak's best years as a coach... both years presented challenges that should have kept us out of the play-offs, but we found a way to win, get in, & win... so what it was the Bengals (who were in the same situation we were in), you play who's on your schedule.
This year, he's woefully underperformed, there's no reason we shouldn't have looked as good as the Broncos but while they are 6-1, we're 2-5 (with a 5 game losing streak) & have underperformed on both sides of the ball.
But, he's got 9 games to make it right. & as bleak & grim as it looks, we've got the talent & I believe the coaching to make something special happen. All we've got to do is make the play-offs, then it's a whole new season.
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HJam72
Hall of Fame
That is not true. He'd just have his jersey burned at the stake with him in it.
Regarding TJ a couple years ago, there were plenty of us that never really thought he had what it took. He did a good job of not throwing int.'s, by not even trying to pass downfield much, until the Ravens game where he finally had to....and we all saw what happened. We were proud of what a 3rd stringer managed to do, but very few actually wanted TJ over Schaub.
Keenum, on the other hand....look, it's like the TD pass to DeAndre last Sunday; dude has an arm, has the guts to use it, AND has some SERIOUS ability to just drop that sucker right in a WR's hands on the long over-the-shoulder throws. We saw it in the preseason & we saw it last Sunday. Throwing that kind of pass that well is something I've never really seen a QB do (with any consistency) who wasn't a successful starter. That pass is a hallmark for superstar QB, & I've seen him do it too many times in the NFL already. Yeah, he could still turn out to suck, but he's got "I'm a leader; gimme the damn ball, coach!" written all over 'im right now.
Precision bombing. Some can and many can't.
& rightfully so. This "system" has been tweaked & customized for him from play selection to personnel selection. They threw in routes, protections, & scheme in 4 days for Keenum.... apples & oranges.
All good points & I agree whole heartedly. We're overreating to what we saw. Plenty of opportunity for Case to do something amazing, put this team on his shoulders & will us to victory the way Russell Wilson, RG3, & Andrew Luck did as rookies & Kaepernick did as a first time starter.
Didn't happen, but what I saw was a guy who could easily replace Schaub as Kubiak's next paper tiger. As long as we've got a dominant run game & a dominant defense around him.... we're a contender.
The only problem is if he can't take care of the ball (ala Schaub2013) he's going to make it difficult for this team to realize it's potential. & fumbling twice a game isn't much different than throwing INTs... fumbling inside the 10, recovered by the other team with 1:42 left in the game & no timeouts is no different than a pick 6; only looks different on the score board.
I remember when the team talked about Tj's Aura.
& after watching Keenum play in a real game, I can get on board with the theory that the team laid down on Schaub. They thought they had something in Tj, then they're watching Keenum make plays against our 1st team defense in practice... then they get chastised every time Schaub scores 6+1 for the other team.....
Or anyone believing that didn't watch the Seattle game. Schaub dismantled the best secondary in the NFL outside the Texans. From within the system. Case played streetball against the 3rd best secondary & won. After last Sunday though, no one is going to be sleeping on Case Keenum.
To me this is a six in one hand & half a dozen in the other situation. Both guys are going to need this team to step up in a big way if we're going to get to where we want to go. The second year upstart has the same odds of doing it as the 10 year vet (a 10 year vet that has played very well in this system).
I've been saying all year, the perception of Matt Schaub was going to change... & it has. Could have been a hero, turned out to be a zero. Going forward, the same can still happen, for either..... this is a damn talented team. However, betting that Schaub will turn into that hero (after six years) is a sucker's bet.
& Kubiak ain't that sucker.
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
I get what you're saying. But if you saw Matt Barkley come in and play for Philly you saw what a 3rd string QB is supposed to look like. A steaming pile of dog $hit. Keenum looked like an actual QB in the NFL.
Not saying he is the answer either, however, really wish people would stop downplaying what everyone clearly saw last week.
People downplaying that sounds a lot like the Iraq'i guy who claimed there were no US troops in Iraq....
Schaub has been in the league since keenum was fresh out of middle school.
Also, it's the potential keenum showed. The playmaking ability that has people excited about his future. He did positive things that we have not seen around here out of a QB. No one is saying he can fail to read blitzes and make hot reads for the rest of his career and be considered successful.
If you step back and look at it objectively you'd understand why people like what case did.
Don't you think Schaub setting the dubious NFL record of four pick 6's in four games might have something to do with fan attitude toward him?
yeah, Keenum looked like a rookie at the end of the game. Perhaps the rest of the VETERANS on the team should have stepped up their game to make up for it. Newton should be ashamed to put on a Texans uniform. I blame him for some of those sacks as much as anyone else.
Keenum did not throw a pick at KC. I honestly do not believe Schaub would have gotten out of that game without throwing a pick, much less have a 110 QBR in the end.
There is no "moral victory" to me. They lost, in spite of one of their best games this season, to a better team. However, that does not mean we cannot analyze the performance in order to objectively reach a conclusion.
Exactly. The kid showed composure and an obvious ability to extend plays that Schaub simply cannot make due to severe physical limitations. Give Case more experience - and maybe a line that can protect him when it really matters - and we have yet to see how high his ceiling can be.
Some folks seem to believe that Schaub can be the 2010-1011 version. But, he's not and will never be. His already bad immobility is getting worse, and now he seems mentally broken. At some point, we just have to admit what our eyes are seeing out there.
Anybody watch Mike Glennon lead the Bucs to a "We really need to find a QB" loss?
That's what I consider an expected performance from a 3rd string QB, who had a lot of the same issues against him as Keenum did. #3 total defense, top 10 against the pass & the run. The 6'7" QB from NCState threw the ball 41 times for 275 yards, 5.4 yards per attempt, 1 TD, 0 INTs & really his game could have been a lot better if his receivers didn't drop a ton of catchable balls.
Glennon did nothing to to lose that game for the Bucs...... just didn't win it. Nobody is looking at Glennon thinking they've got their future QB, even though he was poised, played well within their system, bought time, made plays, etc.. etc.. etc...
Good, not great.
Keenum's stats were more impressive. 6 plays of 25+ yards, 10.8 ypa, 110.6 rating versus a comparable defense (Glennon had an 80.1 passer rating against the Panthers). But, imo (& that's all it is, my opinion) the two fumbles turn an otherwise excellent performance into a "meh" performance. Especially when one effectively ended the game.
Yup, one "Awe sht" erases a whole bunch of "Atta boys"
Granted, Keenum's performance points to hope. That was his first start, vs Glennon's 4th.
speedfreek
All Pro
>You must have missed the end of the only two victories the Texans have this year. Pretty sure that was Schaub leading two end of game scoring drives for the win.
So you are putting forth the contention that Matt Schaub, in his current mental state, with no Daniels, no Foster (for most of the game),
Tate with broken ribs, no Manning, and no Cushing in the 4th -- would
have been in the game enough to rally on to victory in the final drive?
Interesting..
TJ
So you are putting forth the contention that Matt Schaub, in his current mental state, with no Daniels, no Foster (for most of the game),
Tate with broken ribs, no Manning, and no Cushing in the 4th -- would
have been in the game enough to rally on to victory in the final drive?
Interesting..
TJ
Neither San Diego Chargers or Tennessee Titans are not the undefeated Kansas City Chiefs.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Lord Bills
Destruction
i just love it how some posters dont want to give case keenum any rope or benefit of the doubt yet these same posters i bet gave mat schaub 7 years of patience but cant do the same for a kid despite all the factors against him in that game showed great potential, played well, and got the respect of chiefs players but cant get the same respect from his own fan base.
Schaub had six pro bowlers on offense last year and stunk up the joint yet it took him setting dubious records this year for most of the people to finally wake up.
Keenum goes on short notice with half the weapons schaub had last year and cant even get any leniency from some posters.
Very sad and very hypocritical.
Schaub had six pro bowlers on offense last year and stunk up the joint yet it took him setting dubious records this year for most of the people to finally wake up.
Keenum goes on short notice with half the weapons schaub had last year and cant even get any leniency from some posters.
Very sad and very hypocritical.
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
MSR
To reiterate.....go back and watch Matt Barkley...who went to big time program and was drafted and was also a 3rd string QB....go back and watch how he diarrhea'ed his pants for the Eagles last week. THAT is what you EXPECT a 3rd stringer to bring.
Case Keenum was light years better than that and frankly light years better than Schaub, Yates and probably half the NFL with all the $hitty QB'ing going on this year but yeah.....keep telling us how he was average to below average.
