Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Texans place Franchise Tag on D Rob today.

He's probably asking to not be franchised becasue he knows how much spending money The Texans have. I say tag him, especially if this deal ends up meaning you can't shore up some depth areas for the team or even get a starter because his deal is so big.
 
Mailman said:
Ah, I see. This makes sense and is probably exactly what the team is betting on.

Best case scenario: Dunta agrees to a contract extension before the free agency period begins.

Worst case scenario: Dunta tests the market and gets a big offer from another team

Middle scenario: The Texans engender some good will on Dunta's part by not tagging him and letting him test the market only for him to recognize that the team made him a very good offer, one that he should probably accept.
Click to expand...

Well, if that's the way it's handled...it's nothing short of gambling, IMO. There are some teams who I think would definitely want a guy like Dunta Robinson on their team, even with his prior injury.

Desparate teams do desparate things.

I expected the Texans to tag Dunta, admitting that they wanted him one more year AND with considerable compensation if he still walks away.

This is shaping up to be a gamble, IMO, by the Texans management.
 
El Tejano said:
He's probably asking to not be franchised becasue he knows how much spending money The Texans have. I say tag him, especially if this deal ends up meaning you can't shore up some depth areas for the team or even get a starter because his deal is so big.
Click to expand...

My gut instinct tells me it's partly about the money but mostly about the acknowledgment of the kind of player he is and his desire to be wooed. He'll get paid regardless, but franchising him could sour him on the organization. The front office has its finger on the pulse so I trust they know what they're doing wrt Dunta's mindset. I can't imagine they'd take the risk of letting him walk without anything in return unless they had a good idea that either 1) their offer is the best; and/or 2) Dunta wants to play for this organization but wants to be wined and dined first.
 
b0ng said:
I really think Bob is just a more hands off owner. He may dictate what kind players he wants in the organization, but that seems like the rest of it is handled by his GM.

Just my thoughts really.
Click to expand...

My main reasoning, on this subject, is that Bob desired to keep David Carr for $8 million for one more year JUST to see of Kubiak could indeed turn him around. There's no question that Dunta, at worst, still brings a fairly solid set of skills to the defense each game. How much more would McNair be inclined to keep Dunta a Texans?

Although Dunta is not an ooverall #1 pick, at the QB position, he is still a very valuable piece of this team (and not just as a CB, but also as a mainstay on a defense that he and DeMeco have been holding together).

I can see that Rick Smith is probably getting more slack than he had when he first came here. but I somehow doubt that Dunta Robinson's future as a Texans player rests in the hands of just Kubiak and Smith.

I actually think that it's THIS sort of deal that causes Bob to jump into the fray and get involved from his ownership standpoint with player personnel.

I can see him having a pretty important hand in what's going down with Dunta Robinson. Now, if it's any of the other 50+ players on the roster that's considering walking...I see him poking his nose into it ever-so-slightly but not with the vigor that you would with a David Carr/Matt Schaub, or AJ, or Mario.

What sucks is that some desparate team out there can throw insane dough at Dunta, and it puts our backs against the wall. Which is why tagging Dunta makes the most sense: You gotta' get something for him, no matter what.

What's funny is that I only see a desparate team signing Dunta as long as there are no high-value compensation obstacles in place. But if we slap the ultimate tag on him? Nobody will (A) Pay him a lot of money, and (B) Give up the compensatory picks that's part of the deal.

While he might be at a cross-roads in his own career, as well as his value to us as a player on the Texans, I think we ought to tag him.
 
Last edited:
Mailman said:
My gut instinct tells me it's partly about the money but mostly about the acknowledgment of the kind of player he is and his desire to be wooed. He'll get paid regardless, but franchising him could sour him on the organization. The front office has its finger on the pulse so I trust they know what they're doing wrt Dunta's mindset. I can't imagine they'd take the risk of letting him walk without anything in return unless they had a good idea that either 1) their offer is the best; and/or 2) Dunta wants to play for this organization but wants to be wined and dined first.
Click to expand...

Yep.

It's human nature, after all you've done for a company, that you desire to see just how much you're wanted.

Nothing hurts more than to pop off to your boss that the company down the street wants to hire you away....and your boss shrugs his shoulders and says "Oh. OK. See ya!" You'd like to see your boss pull you into the office and say, "Wow. Well, are you serious about it? Is there anything we're not doing right, or can you give me some ideas on how to keep you here?"

I think we can tag Dunta and STILL make him see the value in it: (1) You're only here one more year, (2) You're going to make the bucks, and (3) Some team might still be willing to steal you away from us...and we're cool with that. As long as it's done with an attitude of "You're being franchised because you mean that much to our team. We don't want to lose you. We think we can show you that this next season has great things lined up for the Texans," etc., then I think he's the type who would understand.

But, yeah, tagging him in an impersonal way (as if he's being punished for even THINKING about leaving) can do some harm.
 
I haven't read through the posts in this thread except for the last page, so forgive me if I'm just repeating others' thoughts.

Dunta Robinson, despite that fact that he might very well be the best corner on the market, is not worth overpaying him. Why? Because though, again, he might be the best on the FA market, isn't saying much in my opinion.

Just pay the man!
Click to expand...

Pay him? Yes. Overpay him? NO!

I guess I could stomach them putting the franchise tag on him, for its only one year, but you pay him the market value on a long term contract, then that's overpayment, and he'll never live up to that overpayment. He never was a shutdown corner even before he got injured. And now, coming off a serious injury, he's asking for money that you would pay a shut down corner?

Again. NO!
 
GP said:
My main reasoning, on this subject, is that Bob desired to keep David Carr for $8 million for one more year JUST to see of Kubiak could indeed turn him around. There's no question that Dunta, at worst, still brings a fairly solid set of skills to the defense each game. How much more would McNair be inclined to keep Dunta a Texans?

Although Dunta is not an ooverall #1 pick, at the QB position, he is still a very valuable piece of this team (and not just as a CB, but also as a mainstay on a defense that he and DeMeco have been holding together).

I can see that Rick Smith is probably getting more slack than he had when he first came here. but I somehow doubt that Dunta Robinson's future as a Texans player rests in the hands of just Kubiak and Smith.

I actually think that it's THIS sort of deal that causes Bob to jump into the fray and get involved from his ownership standpoint with player personnel.

I can see him having a pretty important hand in what's going down with Dunta Robinson. Now, if it's any of the other 50+ players on the roster that's considering walking...I see him poking his nose into it ever-so-slightly but not with the vigor that you would with a David Carr/Matt Schaub, or AJ, or Mario.

What sucks is that some desparate team out there can throw insane dough at Dunta, and it puts our backs against the wall. Which is why tagging Dunta makes the most sense: You gotta' get something for him, no matter what.

What's funny is that I only see a desparate team signing Dunta as long as there are no high-value compensation obstacles in place. But if we slap the ultimate tag on him? Nobody will (A) Pay him a lot of money, and (B) Give up the compensatory picks that's part of the deal.

While he might be at a cross-roads in his own career, as well as his value to us as a player on the Texans, I think we ought to tag him.
Click to expand...

I can easily see him putting his hand in on David Carr (First player ever drafted, franchise QB, bringing in QB coach etc etc), but I don't know about Dunta. It's an obvious possibility that he is saying "Don't you franchise Dunta if he doesn't sign a deal you let him go", but boy howdy I would hope that he listens to a lot of what Rick Smith has to say before he puts out a bottom line like that.

At least we'll know by the end of the week what the scoop is.
 
If we had just gone 9-7 or 10-6, and if we had seen signs of a VERY competitive Texans team all season long, I can see why we would let Dunta walk.

Better teams can do this. Better teams can cast marginal players aside and draft or make free agency adjustments more easily.

I think we're still at a stage in our team's growth whereby we need a guy like Dunta. Someone said it best: I'd hate to be the guy(s) making the decision on how to deal with Dunta--Do you tag him? Do you let him test the waters? Do you let him walk?

But right now, I think we use the tag on him. Who else would we use it on? Probably not on anybody else. So use it if you have to. It's one year.
 
b0ng said:
I can easily see him putting his hand in on David Carr (First player ever drafted, franchise QB, bringing in QB coach etc etc), but I don't know about Dunta. It's an obvious possibility that he is saying "Don't you franchise Dunta if he doesn't sign a deal you let him go", but boy howdy I would hope that he listens to a lot of what Rick Smith has to say before he puts out a bottom line like that.

At least we'll know by the end of the week what the scoop is.
Click to expand...

I would think Rick Smith would be the one being the most stingy with the money.
 
Polo said:
I would think Rick Smith would be the one being the most stingy with the money.
Click to expand...

I think Rick Smith would lean toward the idea of letting Dunta test the market, and to possibly let Dunta walk away.

I would think McNair would be the guy meddling in such an idea, specifically because Dunta is one of those "faces" on our team.

Time will tell, eh?
 
What is the drop dead date the 27th ? Would you trade him straight up for Oakland's Micheal Bush ? Draft a CB early ? Do a sign and trade.
 
threetoedpete said:
What is the drop dead date the 27th ? Would you trade him straight up for Oakland's Micheal Bush ? Draft a CB early ? Do a sign and trade.
Click to expand...

I would personally drive Dunta to the airport and load his luggage if we got Michael Bush out of the deal. But that's not going to happen, IMO. I mean, I think the Raiders wouldn't let Bush go for Dunta. Do you?

I'd sign Dunta for one year, and draft CBs. I am not digging our CB stable right now. Seems very shaky. A lot of questions remaining, and some CBs that are on the verge of just flat out being a non-factor anymore.

But yeah, if I got Michael Bush for Dunta...I'd do that deal yesterday.
 
I wouldn't trade Dunta for M. Bush.

Starting cornerbacks are, IMO, harder to comeby and more valuable that second string RB's.

I'd rather keep Dunta and draft a back-up RB.
 
If we tag him it costs us 10m next year against the cap. I believe we give him what he wants (22m bonus), but load it up front, essentially using what the 2009 tag cost will be for a sizeable piece of the guaranteed money (bonus). For example, make it Chris Gamble-esque - 6 year contract at 50m = and average 8.33m per year:

Year 1 (2009) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 2 (2010) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 3 (2011) - 3m contract + 5m bonus (bonus is eaten)= 8m
Year 4 (2012) - 6.67m contract
Year 5 (2013) - 6.67m contract
Year 6 (2014) - 6.67m contract

We would need to eat up that bonus, in my opinion, in the first three years of the contract due to the following - 2011 is when Mario and Slaton are FAs, Schaub & D. Brown become FAs in 2012, Winston in 2013. This would give us some flexibilty and be able to cut bait and run should Dunta have lingering issues. The math makes sense, it will be whether Mr. McNair wants to pony up the dollars to a fellow USC alum and team leader in my opinion.

Of course who knows what the new CBA will hold, should it even be extended, amended or blown up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GP
I am going to be really pissed if we let him freely go test the FA market. If they've decided/promised him not to franchise him then they need to transition tag him so they have some protection and ability to keep him.

I'm going to be very uneasy and concerned about the decision-making of this franchise if they let him walk!

signed,
the eternal optimist
 
threetoedpete said:
What is the drop dead date the 27th ? Would you trade him straight up for Oakland's Micheal Bush ? Draft a CB early ? Do a sign and trade.
Click to expand...

That's the day the free agency market opens. Teams have until tomorrow (Feb 19th) at 3 PM to declare their tagged players.
 
See jack? Tomorrow at 3. Stop worrying. They are in the thick of the negotiations. Start worrying tomorrow at 2pm. That's a good time to worry. For now, just let the guys do their job. Tomorrow we can judge. Today we can speculate. How lame. Tomorrow, tomorrow, it's only a day a way....
Dun-ta will come out, tomorrow.
Bet McNairs last dollar, tomorrow.
He'll be signed.....

Just thinking about, tomorrow....

(to the theme from annie)
 
Kaiser Toro said:
If we tag him it costs us 10m next year against the cap. I believe we give him what he wants (22m bonus), but load it up front, essentially using what the 2009 tag cost will be for a sizeable piece of the guaranteed money (bonus). For example, make it Chris Gamble-esque - 6 year contract at 50m = and average 8.33m per year:

Year 1 (2009) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 2 (2010) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 3 (2011) - 3m contract + 5m bonus (bonus is eaten)= 8m
Year 4 (2012) - 6.67m contract
Year 5 (2013) - 6.67m contract
Year 6 (2014) - 6.67m contract

We would need to eat up that bonus, in my opinion, in the first three years of the contract due to the following - 2011 is when Mario and Slaton are FAs, Schaub & D. Brown become FAs in 2012, Winston in 2013. This would give us some flexibilty and be able to cut bait and run should Dunta have lingering issues. The math makes sense, it will be whether Mr. McNair wants to pony up the dollars to a fellow USC alum and team leader in my opinion.

Of course who knows what the new CBA will hold, should it even be extended, amended or blown up.
Click to expand...

No fair. You have experience with this stuff.

j/k

Thank you for the insight. Looks good to me. But does it match the thinking of the Powers-That-Be? Gonna' find out pretty soon.
 
barrett said:
See jack? Tomorrow at 3. Stop worrying. They are in the thick of the negotiations. Start worrying tomorrow at 2pm. That's a good time to worry. For now, just let the guys do their job. Tomorrow we can judge. Today we can speculate. How lame. Tomorrow, tomorrow, it's only a day a way....
Dun-ta will come out, tomorrow.
Bet McNairs last dollar, tomorrow.
He'll be signed.....

Just thinking about, tomorrow....

(to the theme from annie)
Click to expand...


I'd like to add that even if they were to let Dunta go and replace him with Asomugha... it would be really sad as a fan to have him leave. He'd be the first player to leave the team that would really hurt as a fan, IMO. You know, I was disappointed when guys like AGlenn walked but Dunta's been a quality player that has had a lot to do with any of the limited success that we've had and he's been with the team for his entire career and almost since the inception of the franchise.

I've decided, we must re-sign him!!
 
Kaiser Toro said:
If we tag him it costs us 10m next year against the cap. I believe we give him what he wants (22m bonus), but load it up front, essentially using what the 2009 tag cost will be for a sizeable piece of the guaranteed money (bonus). For example, make it Chris Gamble-esque - 6 year contract at 50m = and average 8.33m per year:

Year 1 (2009) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 2 (2010) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 3 (2011) - 3m contract + 5m bonus (bonus is eaten)= 8m
Year 4 (2012) - 6.67m contract
Year 5 (2013) - 6.67m contract
Year 6 (2014) - 6.67m contract

We would need to eat up that bonus, in my opinion, in the first three years of the contract due to the following - 2011 is when Mario and Slaton are FAs, Schaub & D. Brown become FAs in 2012, Winston in 2013. This would give us some flexibilty and be able to cut bait and run should Dunta have lingering issues. The math makes sense, it will be whether Mr. McNair wants to pony up the dollars to a fellow USC alum and team leader in my opinion.

Of course who knows what the new CBA will hold, should it even be extended, amended or blown up.
Click to expand...


I like the idea but there is a problem with it. Front-loading a contract makes it very likely that a player will become dissatisfied with his contract and demand a new deal later. Particularly if the player has been in the league and paid well, holdouts can become a tool- or the threat of retirement. I know that looking at the contract as a whole, it would seem obnoxious. But, let's say that in 4 years contracts for top level talent are something like $15 million per year. If Dunta is playing at an elite level but getting only 40% of what other top players are getting, it would be a problem.
 
dalemurphy said:
I like the idea but there is a problem with it. Front-loading a contract makes it very likely that a player will become dissatisfied with his contract and demand a new deal later. Particularly if the player has been in the league and paid well, holdouts can become a tool- or the threat of retirement. I know that looking at the contract as a whole, it would seem obnoxious. But, let's say that in 4 years contracts for top level talent are something like $15 million per year. If Dunta is playing at an elite level but getting only 40% of what other top players are getting, it would be a problem.
Click to expand...

The front load is already there with most contracts--the signing bonus. What I take KT to be saying is the accounting is front loaded more than usual by paying it out as roster bonuses. Don't see how that affects a renegotiation scenario.
 
dalemurphy said:
I like the idea but there is a problem with it. Front-loading a contract makes it very likely that a player will become dissatisfied with his contract and demand a new deal later. Particularly if the player has been in the league and paid well, holdouts can become a tool- or the threat of retirement. I know that looking at the contract as a whole, it would seem obnoxious. But, let's say that in 4 years contracts for top level talent are something like $15 million per year. If Dunta is playing at an elite level but getting only 40% of what other top players are getting, it would be a problem.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with what your saying, but this is solely an exercise based on upon what we know, and what is implied:
- Dunta had an awful injury in 2007
- Dunta is a leader on the field and in the locker room, he is a valued asset
- He and his agent want a Gamble like contract with ~22m guaranteed
- The Texans have money to play with
- The Texans are weak on defense and the new coordinator will need coaches on the field and leaders to convey the message
- McNair and Robinson are USC alums
- Dunta would like to be here
- We have some bog contracts coming up in 2011-2013 (I forgot to include Okoye in 2012, but not holding my breath)
- a Franchise tag will cost the Texans 9.96m in 2009

In the end, does Dunta want to be here at the cost that he and his agent floated? And if so, McNair will need to get his checkbook ready, accounting in order and hold the employee to his contract.
 
So is the end of the line for Marvin ?

Pretty shrewd move by Pollian. The fire boiling the frog just got turned up. 43 million. Y'all better love Robinson to death. I don't wanna see no bitchin' next fall if it don't work out and the sell the farm for him. I wonder how much John McClain is going to pitch in to help McNair out with the contract ?
 
threetoedpete said:
The fire boiling the frog just got turned up. 43 million. Y'all better love Robinson to death. I don't wanna see no bitchin' next fall if it don't work out and the sell the farm for him. I wonder how much John McClain is going to pitch in to help McNair out with the contract ?
Click to expand...

I think he's worth taking a flier on for a one-season deal of about 10 mill. If it doesn't work out, then you know you tried with a player who's given his all and can be elite. I seriously don't think we'll get a CB of Robinson's caliber in free agency ... well, ever.

Now, this all comes fromt he viewpoint that I have, in that I think Robinson can become one of the best CBs in the game. He had very fluid hips, very good recovery speed, and pretty damn good ball skills. He also hits like a Mack truck. He was having a Pro Bowl season in '07 before he got injured. So the question really comes down to: Can he get back to what he was becoming pre-injury? I think the gamble on the upside is worth the franchise tag. In effect, the team would be gambling on the injury issue, rather than injury, performance, and sometimes attitude issues like they have with nearly every other FA they've ever signed.

I do not think a $23 million guarantee is a wise gamble, however.
 
Aj's take

Here we are on franchise tag eve, and not a creature was stirring - except for the crickets chirping in the Texans contract negotiation center.

I'm sure they're all very busy with contracts and combine and draft prep and stuff, but there's not exactly a lot of information coming out of Reliant Park these days.

But not all is quiet around the league.

The latest domino to fall was Colts cornerback Kelvin Hayden, who according to Adam Schefter, just received a new five-year, $43 million contract that includes $22.5 million in guaranteed money. Cha ching.

Just a few days ago, the Colts were talking about franchising Hayden.

Hayden's signing is certainly another (timely) benchmark for the Dunta Robinson negotiating team.

In November, the Panthers signed Chris Gamble to a six-year, $53 million contract that includes $23 million worth of guarantees.

I'm sure Dunta thinks he's worth every bit as much as Gamble and Hayden, even though he wasn't back to his pre-injury form by the end of the 2008 season.

Only time will tell if the Texans think the same. But time is getting very short.

Tomorrow at 3 p.m. CST is the deadline for teams to assign franchise tags to players that will otherwise become unrestricted free agents on February 27.

If the Texans don't tag Robinson tomorrow, then one of two things will happen:

1. The Texans will sign him to a new contract by the February 26th, or
2. He's gone.

I don't think Dunta will be back with the Texans once he gets out there and starts entertaining offers from other teams.
Click to expand...

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houst...ew-deal-another-benchmark-for-Texans-Robinson
 
Glad to hear it. I think this is our best option with Dunta. We get to see how he performs post injury before signing him long term.
 
I know they are now required to pay him just under $10M for next year. If they reach a long-term agreement, does that void the $10M amount for 2009 and would the new contract take over?
 
I just want to know how Dunta feels about that. I'm thinking that they have been negotiating, so something has come up where they agreed to this or possibly we made a promise that if he performed well, we would pay him.

I'm also thinking we are seeing what our remaining cash is after FA.
 
Thank God! I know he wanted a long term deal, and he still may get one. If we would of lost him it would of thrown off our entire offseason priorities. Plus, with this one year deal, Dunta will be going all out (not that he already doesnt). I'm so relieved to know Dunta will be back with us next season.

GO TEXANS!
 
tedr said:
I know they are now required to pay him just under $10M for next year. If they reach a long-term agreement, does that void the $10M amount for 2009 and would the new contract take over?
Click to expand...

I think so.

Dunta still has to sign the 1 year contract that the franchise tag generates, so I quess they coudl continue to negotiate and then Dunta sign a new long term deal.

Another first for the Texans (use of the franchise tag), if I'm not mistaken.
 
tedr said:
I know they are now required to pay him just under $10M for next year. If they reach a long-term agreement, does that void the $10M amount for 2009 and would the new contract take over?
Click to expand...

If he signs a contract then you go by the terms of the contract, the franchise tag is so a player does not become a FA and it just says there is a minimum the team can offer.
 
No team is going to give us TWO first round draft picks. So, we might as well not even start theorizing what teams will want to test us on acquiring Dunta. Had we not tagged Dunta, there would be several teams fighting for him. The two first rounders was the clincher.

Tagging him with the non-exclusive franchise tag just ensured that he will be playing for the Texans this season.

And, I will go ahead and predict right now that this will be Dunta's last season with the Texans. He's going to have to display a Pro Bowl season, with multiple interceptions and big-time stats across the board. He's going to have to be pretty doggone good to warrant top CB money after this season IMO.

This is one of those "Had To Do It" things, such as going to the dentist--You know it sucks, but it has to be done.

Let's see what he can do.
 
It works out for us either way. If someone picks him up then we get two 1st round picks. If not then we can workout a long term deal with him and keep him around.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't understand this, "he was playing at a pro-bowl level before the injury" stuff. I think he was playing at an NFL starter level, but not pro-bowl level. I don't think he's ever been a pro-bowl corner. His coverage skills are very poor. He's our best tackler....... he use to hit like a Mack Truck, and he shut down the outside edge for any running back in the game......

That spells strong safety to me.

But, IMHO, if the Texans are close to giving him $20 million gauranteed, if that's what they think he is worth, I can't see them not closing the deal on $23 million.

If they are still at a stale mate, the Texans have got to be closer to $17 million.
Click to expand...

we need corner backs and he is our best one, people dont throw to him and when they do he makes picks and tackles....
 
WesmanTexanfan said:
we need corner backs and he is our best one, people dont throw to him and when they do he makes picks and tackles....
Click to expand...

He did get picked on a lot more than he usually does last season. He lost his footing quite a few times, let a few recievers go deep on him and lost position more than he has in years past. With all that said, I love Dunta and am glad to have him back. I think this is a smart move by the Texans. Lets see how he performs this season. If he plays like one of the best in the league then we pay him. If it looks like he's still trying to get back to his old form then unfortunatly we will have to let him walk. :texflag:
 
WesmanTexanfan said:
we need corner backs and he is our best one, people dont throw to him and when they do he makes picks and tackles....
Click to expand...

I think Thunderkyss has a point, but I also see the flip side of it: He's the best we got, and we don't need any more holes on defense right now.

Dunta will play here on more season, but he won't get a long-term deal unless he DOES become a Pro Bowl cornerback who has a huge statistical year this season.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top