MSR. Good post. And no, I wouldn't piss on Rick Smith if he ws on fire. I'd pour water on him or use a fire extinguisher. Piss on him? really?? That's racism and racism isn't cool!!!!!
It's an old saying round hereabouts...
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Texans hire Bill O'Brien as HC
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
It's an old saying round hereabouts...
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Prediction: Texan offense will be much better this year. However, People like yourself, instead of acknowledging the wisdom of this move, will still be critical, saying..."imagine how good we would have been if only they didn't let AJ go!"
Consider the correlation, since 2010, between AJ's involvement in the offense and the team's rate of success. His two best seasons were 2010 and 2013- they were 6 and 24. His worst seasons were 2011 and 2014- Texans won 20 in those two seasons. While I don't think AJ contributed to the team losing, those numbers are strong evidence that he is not nearly as vital to the teams chances for success as many of you believe.
Scooter
Funky
O'Brien (Romeo) got a 8-12 win team to 9 wins. That's as far as my opinion goes. Kubiak would've gotten us back to 13, Rex Ryan would get 8, Belichick would get 14. The outstanding performance is based 100% on the lack of knowledge when it comes to 2013's collapse. A 1 in a trillion comet landed on Reliant Stadium in 2013, O'Brien is being credited with a strong defensive staff and not being struck by a comet.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
It can't be overestimated that it was OBrien who assembled that defensive staff. It wasn't dumb luck! He actively pursued those guys- assembling the smaller parts befor Romeo was even on board.
OBrien is the best coach in the game, right now... I honestly believe that. It will be proven true (or false) over the next decade, but I see a focused, great football mind with a championship philosophy offensively and defensively.
OBrien is the best coach in the game, right now... I honestly believe that. It will be proven true (or false) over the next decade, but I see a focused, great football mind with a championship philosophy offensively and defensively.
Scooter
Funky
I give him all the credit in the world for our defensive staff. He assembled an amazing group. Romeo, Kollar and Vrabel are a fierce combination. Are they that more exceptional than Wade, Kollar and Vance?
The second statement is going to take some time to prove one way or the other. I see it going the other. I see complete failure in the future, though I do well to retain optimism.
What are you categorizing his best and worst seasons by? 2010 was in no way his best season. 2011 he got to play in what 7 games? My recollection was he got injured against oakland and had to miss most of the season, tried to come back but coiuldn't make it. Which equated to another 1100 yard season, But wait wasn't it Matt Leinhart throwing to him for what 1/4 until he got injured and then it was TJ Yates handing off to Arian's 1200yd season and Tate put up almost a thousand? Dude your trying to pass yourself off as a blogger and smarter than most, you should at least research before spouting off your nonsensical tripe.
I'm so confused!!!
Why?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Right! He was injured in 2011... And how did the texans perform without him? He was healthy and active in 2013... How did the Texans perform with him? This isn't about Andre. It is about fielding a winning team. Where is the evidence to support the idea that this team will struggle to win without AJs production on the field?
The question is not if they'll struggle without him, but if they'll benefit without him. Nothing so far tells me that they will. Do you think Hopkins will command a double team? One of the tight ends maybe? Damarris Johnson? Right now the Texans are poorer team
Scooter
Funky
2013 was an impossibility. Given the entire scope of NFL players and coaches, if the 2013 season played again towards infinity, I feel we'd be more likely to go 16-0 twice as often as having a 2 win season. We won the lottery - the wrong one. In 2014 we were going to have at worst an 8 win season regardless of who was coaching, all 'coach' had to do was avoid that same lottery. O'Brien's offense in 2014 was on par with with the lowest available coaches, but the defense saved us. Other coaches would've done considerably more with our talent.
I listed a few coaches and what I thought their results would've been with the 2014 Texans roster -with consideration to how pathetic our 2014 schedule was. I predict failure based on how I saw our scheme, talent acquisition, teaching, player management, reliance on the previous regime while eliminating those assets, and numerous other factors. A great comparison is pretty easy right now, we have the Brown's version of Belichick. He's got a favorable chance to be good later on, but O'Brien's going to be an anchor for us.
ok, at least I understand your post now
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Scooter
Funky
assumption.
Lol
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Scooter
Funky
Yeah that response came off stupid lol. The intent was that it's an assumption that we have a plan in motion to replace what we're losing with better talent. IE: we'll let Andre walk because we're going to sign Cobb ... it's foolish to assume that we're the destination and/or high bidder for any player. Likewise it's foolish to assume future draft success capable of filling immediate holes.
Obviously we're going to add players, and we'll draft/sign a receiver or few of varying talent. It's silly to assume the level of player we'll be acquiring however.
Just heard on the radio that Andre has lead the league in catches over the last three years.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
He went for 220/3000 the previous two seasons. Monster production.
Last year at 85/925 was a pretty big drop, so while statistically correct, it is a bit of a disingenuous statement.
Not really. It's like saying Arian Foster was 6th in rushing even though he missed three games.
When was the last time Ryan Fitzpatrick threw 85 catchable balls to anybody?
sandman
Brexit Advisor
My point being is that by saying he led the NFL in receptions the last three years is making the argument that he was the best receiver (or one of) over the entirety of the last three years. He was arguably the best receiver in 2012-13, but there were a whole lot of WR's in the league this last year with 85/900/11.1 yards type of stats.
In your scenario, you are taking the performance of a single season. That is different than consolidating the performance over multiple seasons. Surely we can agree that AJ was not the best receiver in the league this last past year. Fitz or missing a game notwithstanding.
And for the record, Nuk increased his reception rate from 57% to 60% this past season with Fitz with a significantly higher number of targets than his rookie season.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No it's not. What it points to, since we all know last year was down, is that last year was an outlier in recent production. Not going to argue whether that outlier is a trend or an aberration - been done too much.
It contrasts with:
Fitzgerald 216 rec. 2536 yds
AJ 306 rec. 3941 yds
steelb has said Arizona was the best team in the NFL last year and many supported Arians for coach of the year/one of the best coaches. Arians found a "role" for a far less productive player.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
and that is not how O'Brien wants the offense to operate... During that span, the Texans have a losing record and declining offensive productivity each year.
That's two winning seasons. One division title, play off appearance, play off victory... The second winning season, we were competitive... alive for the division as late as week 12, alive for the play offs in week 17.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You had to have been on something when you wrote this. Calling the 2-14 season a meteor hitting Reliant and saying Kubiak would have had the team at 13 wins last season? Normally I'd consider this a troll post, but from you I know you're serious. Just become a Denver fan already. OB is establishing order in this franchise and has been off to a great start. He took your sorry ass 2-14 Texans to 9-7. THat is what Kubiak built and got him canned. OB's results with that same team he had to take over and he over achieved with it. This OB's team now. Either give the guy some support and confidence or get a Denver jersey and roll with it.
Scoreboard, man.
How many rings does Wade have? How many Super Bowls has he coached?
The answer to both questions is zero.
Romeo and Vrabel have 8 rings between them as player / coach.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
And how would you feel if the Texans organization was satisfied with those results. They aren't. Therefore, they are making moves which they believe will be good for the team. This is one of them.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I'm just not a fan of how this is rumored to have gone down. Doesn't send a good message to the rest of the team.
I'm fine with moving him or cutting him, but I'm not a fan of asking him to take s reduced role like that. Just ask him to take the pay it like you really wanted to.
The reduced role stuff would have worked itself out. If you had another wr capable of stealing some reps, then so be it.
The reduced role nonsense is clownish. Could have just said you were resting him more to keep him fresh or something.
I'm fine with moving him or cutting him, but I'm not a fan of asking him to take s reduced role like that. Just ask him to take the pay it like you really wanted to.
The reduced role stuff would have worked itself out. If you had another wr capable of stealing some reps, then so be it.
The reduced role nonsense is clownish. Could have just said you were resting him more to keep him fresh or something.
The message it sends is that Houston has become South Boston and OB is doing his best BB impression. You never see the Pats overpay older players (not named Brady and not saying he's overpaid. Well, they are ALL overpaid...). They cut them or trade them and plug in replacements.
& I'm having a hard time understanding that.
But they usually do it up front. Face to face, man to man. "I want you to take a pay cut, or we're going to trade you." Like they did with Mankins. Not, "Uh.. see, we... um, kind.. kinda... well.. y'know... we envision your role.. y'know, erm.. you're not the player you used to be.... shucks, can you help us out a little bit?"
The way this is said to have gone down, just doesn't make sense, & that's what I have a problem with.
Had one of our insiders said O'Brien wasn't happy with Andre's attitude throughout the season, but to save face they made up the 40 catch story... then I could believe it.
Had we signed a play making TE & Shane Vareen, then they told Andre, "We're going to feature Hop, TE, & Shane... you most likely won't be on the field as often. You might get 40 catches."
Then I can understand, but with what we've seen from the guys on the roster, I can't imagine such a conversation.
But this is like saying, "We offered him $2M/yr guaranteed for the next four years & he said no." I wouldn't blame Andre for saying no & I'd question the Texans' sanity for making such an offer. It's insulting.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Before last season, O'Brien's career highlights were picking up Bellichick's dry cleaning and not enabling child molestation. He did well for having garbage at QB and a bunch of draft picks that were pretty much useless.
My biggest fear is that he will pull the standard Bellichick disciple mistake of thinking he's Bellichick. Arrogant roster moves, abrasive personality, etc that eventually turn the lockeroom against him.
My biggest fear is that he will pull the standard Bellichick disciple mistake of thinking he's Bellichick. Arrogant roster moves, abrasive personality, etc that eventually turn the lockeroom against him.
1 Without the wins
2 Without the wins
There is a lot more to becoming the Patriots than making a salary cap cut of an aging veteran. Such talk is very premature.
You forgot that he also yelled at Tom Brady...which apparently made him a QB guru.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
You place too much weight on the following stats: receptions and total yards, instead of things like yards per catch or yards per attempt. Also, you still believe AJ in 2014 is a similar athlete and player to AJ of 2010. Finally, you underestimate the importance of cap management and impact of his cap number.
I think what he's getting at is not that AJ will be traded or released, but how this news came to us. Reduced role?
How about your employer comes to you and says "we value all you've done, but this year we want you to only work 15 hours a week but you have to be here all the time while only getting paid for 15
No.. no I don't.
I'm not saying keep Aj with a $16M cap number. I love the guy, but don't want to pay him like a top 5 receiver.
But I know he's got more value than a 40 catch guy.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And apparently you put too little into things like 20 rec. behind the LOS.
Try 2013. Gee that just doesn't sound as dramatic though does it.
No he and many others do not. What he, I and others have repeatedly said is could have knocked $8 mil off this year's cap hit with him still on the team. Now that $8.8 mil has to go to replacing AJ not just on upgrading.
Once we get through the first couple weeks of free agency, then we'll know how this move demonstrates the importance of cap management and impact of his number.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
It also clears $16 million from the 2016 books.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
This analogy assumes AJs issue is with the pay cut, not just the reduced role.
The pity AJ is receiving baffles me. He didn't want to be on the Texans anymore. When he signs for much less money on a team where his role is significantly less than it has been in Houston, perhaps that truth will be evident to you. His reaction to the idea of a reduced role strikes me as a guy who doesn't have winning as his top priority.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Which could have been reduced as well. And no it does not. It clears $16 mil minus replacing him. I know you delusionally think 50 guys can easily do that, but it ain't true.
It's not pity. Some folks disagree that this is best for the team.
Of course it's about the money... it's silly to think it's not. Yeah he wants to win and he wants to play. He wants to catch passes. It's what he's paid to do.
I don't understand your thinking. If you don't understand that the "reduced role" is a prelude to "pay cut" I don't know what to tell you
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
He was unwilling to take a pay cut. Therefore, the only way to reduce that cap number would be to extend his contract, which would simply draw this process out and cause them to overspend on a WR in his late 30s.
What makes you think it's not about both? He's a starter in this league and the whole league knows it
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
We don't know that he was unwilling to take a pay cut. We know that he wasn't willing to take a pay cut in line with 40 catches a season. & I don't blame him. If they were talking about designing plays where he's the 2nd/3rd option, or even not being on the field when there's only one WR out there... I'd like to think he was open to the possibility, but we don't know & most likely won't know.
If they said, "Going forward, we project you'll make about 65 caches, 750, 800 yards." He might be open to discussion.
But they were like, "Picture you... picture Darren Sproles.. now you, now Sproles... what do ya say big guy?"
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
A guy that is a lot cheaper, probably... and faster. His replacement doesn't have to match his productivity. The Texans are reallocating resources on offense and attempting to design a more flexible offense, instead of being limited by a lack of depth, speed, quickness at the skill positions.
houstonspartan
All Pro
I don't think anyone is pitying Andre; I think some people just don't agree with this move, that's all.
And, dude, considering the years in which you defended Gary Kubiak, you may want to temper your joy that Andre is leaving, and your slamming his lack of productivity. I put this mess firmly on your boy Kubiak's 2010 extension. I said then that if we extended Kubiak, it would be a mistake, and that we had stars like Andre who were wilting under mediocrity and wasting their careers.
As for Andre, I'll miss the guy a lot, but, I understand that this had to occur. It's kinda strange, it's almost like this team has suddenly grown up, and decided to make "big boy" decisions like this. Sometimes hard decisions are necessary to move forward.
Oh well, just my opinion.