Difference is Caley being a former TE coach will know how to use the TE property. This is the reason they've visited with so many of the TE.
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Texans General Draft discussion
- Thread starter steelbtexan
- Start date
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yeah but we still don't know if that's going to matter. The picture of the steak on the menu Looks good but I'm going to wait and see before I tell people how good it is.
Just because they draft a TE doesn't mean that they won't draft a wr. In fact if Caserio drafted like this I would be very happy.
1-25 Loveland
2-58 Kyle Williams
It's going to be hard to buy a steak if the restaurant doesn't have a steak to sell you. Although I'm sure it looks good in the picture.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Ah but the draft has many steaks er tight ends just not many good ones.
I don't really know what we are talking about anymore? Beef or Tight Ends?
That's why I'm advocating for getting the best one not named Tyler Warren
badboy
Hall of Fame
And I am advocating for Harold Fannin who brings more than just blocking.
I'm thinking they're looking for a better blocking TE. If they wait until the 3rd/5th rd, then guys like Arroyo/Ferguson/Fidone etc... will probably be on board above Fannin because they're better blockers.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I understand but you are looking for blocking and I am looking for scoring and yardage and none of those guys come close to Fannin. As you used to say difference makers.
Porky
Hall of Fame
You don't think Loveland is a good candidate to work down the seams in the passing game?
badboy
Hall of Fame
You want a 600 yd tight end when you could have a thousand yards?
Porky
Hall of Fame
That's in a vacuum and not how it works. Fannin is a decent prospect, but he's not Loveland. Not close imho. Fannin is probably a TE2 on most teams. Loveland is an instant TE1 on some teams and at worst a high level TE2 on the teams with a sure starter.
Fidone and Arroyo are fine players and difference makers. They just have injury histories. Arroyo would be a late first or early second rd pick without his injury history. Even with it there's a good chance he goes before 3-79. Dude's really talented.
Yes he is and he's a great RZ threat.
TheRealJoker V2
Veteran
When deciding who/what to pick in the draft, here are some things the team will have to take into account:
1) Need relative to team: Has this need been satisfactorily filled via trade or free agency? EX: Is Cam Robinson a good enough bandaid at LT to not have to trade up to get a day 1 starter like Banks? Is Speed a good enough option at LB to take this position off the board day 1 and 2?
2) Contract situation of existing players: Are there players with contracts up for renewal that will be too expensive to keep? EX: Tunsil. Traded a year before the team would have to let him walk for nothing or pay him a new market resetting contract. How many players will be under contract next season? EX: DT position I think only Mario Edwards on roster past next season (2 year contract for him).
3) This one is least discussed… Value of the second contract: Looking at the contracts being handed out, which positions have the most significant spike on their second contract? If the team views comparable talents at WR vs TE for example… which position will cost more to retain the player for their second contract? This will cause the WR to be rated ahead of the TE if all other things are equal.
Trey Mcbride just signed a 4 year 76 million dollar contract making him the league’s highest paid tight end. His rookie contract was 4 years 6.2 million. His cap number this past season was 1.7 million and he caught over 100 passes for 1100 yards. Great value during his rookie contract! Now he’s gotta continue providing that production to justify his salary. But the numbers he put up justify the salary he’s getting and you can expect he’ll do it again if he did it before.
Tee Higgins just signed a 4 year 115 million dollar contract which comes in as the 9th highest WR contract. He provided 900 yards and 10 tds. Good numbers but a disappointing return on investment if that’s the top end of his production. IMO the Bengals will not be able to gain a significant enough contribution from Higgins with Chase and his 40 million per year league leading contract siphoning targets. This would have been an area i’d say draft his replacement and get a rookie contract.
1) Need relative to team: Has this need been satisfactorily filled via trade or free agency? EX: Is Cam Robinson a good enough bandaid at LT to not have to trade up to get a day 1 starter like Banks? Is Speed a good enough option at LB to take this position off the board day 1 and 2?
2) Contract situation of existing players: Are there players with contracts up for renewal that will be too expensive to keep? EX: Tunsil. Traded a year before the team would have to let him walk for nothing or pay him a new market resetting contract. How many players will be under contract next season? EX: DT position I think only Mario Edwards on roster past next season (2 year contract for him).
3) This one is least discussed… Value of the second contract: Looking at the contracts being handed out, which positions have the most significant spike on their second contract? If the team views comparable talents at WR vs TE for example… which position will cost more to retain the player for their second contract? This will cause the WR to be rated ahead of the TE if all other things are equal.
Trey Mcbride just signed a 4 year 76 million dollar contract making him the league’s highest paid tight end. His rookie contract was 4 years 6.2 million. His cap number this past season was 1.7 million and he caught over 100 passes for 1100 yards. Great value during his rookie contract! Now he’s gotta continue providing that production to justify his salary. But the numbers he put up justify the salary he’s getting and you can expect he’ll do it again if he did it before.
Tee Higgins just signed a 4 year 115 million dollar contract which comes in as the 9th highest WR contract. He provided 900 yards and 10 tds. Good numbers but a disappointing return on investment if that’s the top end of his production. IMO the Bengals will not be able to gain a significant enough contribution from Higgins with Chase and his 40 million per year league leading contract siphoning targets. This would have been an area i’d say draft his replacement and get a rookie contract.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Again you're focusing on just what you want a blocking tight end. In my opinion, Fannin would be TE 1 on this team. We have not used TE correctly for years and probably would not use Fannin as he was in college. Go on dreaming about what you want in a blocking tight end.
Porky
Hall of Fame
B- for Connelly - I see too much Tunsil in him, and I’m sorry but I don’t see a rookie LT starting right away. I think they want an instant plug and play guy. On the plus side, he could be a cheaper Tunsil once he does step in and start. Not totally opposed, but I’m meh on this pick especially for this season.
B for Noel - I like him but again there is a guy in front of him for 2025. What are you doing for the giant hole at X. Like Connelly, I like it better long term, but I don’t think Noel is an X receiver, and for 2025…that’s where the giant hole is.
B for Noel - I like him but again there is a guy in front of him for 2025. What are you doing for the giant hole at X. Like Connelly, I like it better long term, but I don’t think Noel is an X receiver, and for 2025…that’s where the giant hole is.
Porky
Hall of Fame
You must have me confused with another member. I wouldn’t be opposed to a blocking TE on day 3 - there are a couple that I like in that role, but Imho Loveland does not fit that description. Apparently you do. I see Loveland as a seam pass catcher. You call him a blocking TE. Agree to disagree. But the fun part will be when the season unfolds. Let’s see who has the better passing stats. My money is on Loveland if both are fully healthy - team fit and depth chart will have some say so not placing a wager…too many variables!
cland
Rookie
The "McVay TEs" are used in the classic, old-school, in-line blocker/pass-catcher role, as opposed to the more "modern" hybrid TE/WR type, and the TEs are expected to block as well as they catch. So arguing how many yards (by itself) they'll get is missing the point of one of the TEs primary function. As Caley has said, the key to a running game is having strong blocking TEs, and the advantage of going against the NFL grain, is that you should be able to pick up that type of player later in the draft.
Now of course the McVay offense is starting to take over the league, so we won't be "going against the grain" for very long, but I still feel like that type of player can be found later in the draft.
Now of course the McVay offense is starting to take over the league, so we won't be "going against the grain" for very long, but I still feel like that type of player can be found later in the draft.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Let's try this another way. Fannin blocking at 56% compared to Loveland's 50%. They're not even in the same universe with receiving yardage.
badboy
Hall of Fame
But as I have said, Fannin is a better blocker than Loveland. So.. if you're going to take a tight end, why not get the better blocker and the better receiver? Seemingly, it would be better to say that Fannin may have been blocking DBs and Loveland perhaps linebackers?
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Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
I'm not sure about either of those statements.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Just my opinion from what I watched and from rankings from others such as nfldraftbuzz
Porky
Hall of Fame
What does this even mean? I'm lost.
I don't think either guy is much of a blocker, but Loveland probably has the edge from what I've seen, with more runway to improve in that area.
As far as pass catching, if you're going strictly by college stats, I've got news for you.....they don't mean that much when projecting to the NFL.
Fannin might be good, but there's a reason he is projected late on day 2 or day 3 as opposed to late on day 1 or early on day 2 for Loveland.
Michigan vs. Bowling Green also might have some impact on draft status.
Watch Loveland's 2023 tape, he's a good blocker. He was playing hurt last yr (Shoulder) and that affected his blocking. You cant have a TE that cant block and have Corum run for as many yds as he did. Loveland will be long gone by 1-25 IMHO, so this will be a moot point. But if he's there Caserio should thank his lucky stars and run the pick up to God'ell.
Is this why McVay was trying very hard to trade up for Bowers? Parkinson isn't known as a blocking TE. Neither was Mundt or Higbee.
He was? I know better than to ask you for a link, but where did you hear this?
TheRealJoker V2
Veteran
A cautionary tale regarding Kenyon Green. We know what he is now… but in college the tape looked really good. He was a 2x All American in the SEC including his final season where he started at 4 different positions due to team need and played well at all of them. Fast forward to his awful combine and people were saying, “Who cares about the underwear olympics, put the film on!”
His tape got him drafted 15th overall and we saw glimpses why early in his career. Then the injuries happened and a change in blocking scheme didn’t help. Now he’s gone and we are back to draft season.
There was also the medical red flag at the combine but I digress… we don’t know about that stuff as fans until after the fact most of the time. I wonder if the Texans knew as well and rolled the dice anyway?
Tyler Booker scares me as a prospect more than any other in this draft. Looks great on tape (like Kenyon) in the SEC. Similar measurables but even worse numbers at the underwear olympics than Kenyon!
Part of me hopes he gets taken before 25… then another part of me thinks Nick is gonna say, “Trust the process” and roll the dice again on getting that bully on the interior.
His tape got him drafted 15th overall and we saw glimpses why early in his career. Then the injuries happened and a change in blocking scheme didn’t help. Now he’s gone and we are back to draft season.
There was also the medical red flag at the combine but I digress… we don’t know about that stuff as fans until after the fact most of the time. I wonder if the Texans knew as well and rolled the dice anyway?
Tyler Booker scares me as a prospect more than any other in this draft. Looks great on tape (like Kenyon) in the SEC. Similar measurables but even worse numbers at the underwear olympics than Kenyon!
Part of me hopes he gets taken before 25… then another part of me thinks Nick is gonna say, “Trust the process” and roll the dice again on getting that bully on the interior.
Geez, I hope he stays away from Booker! Give me Jackson even if it costs 1-25
TheRealJoker V2
Veteran
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Jackson and Zabel over Booker
Porky
Hall of Fame
I will be the contrarian. I like Booker a lot. He is a bully in the run game, nasty demeanor, swarm for miles. I think he is a considerably better better prospect then Green plus (Doc can correct me if I’m wrong) he is injury free. Green came into the league already with recent injury history. I am slightly leery at 25 but not totally opposed…but if he is in the second round floating around,let’s trade up and grab him if Zabel and Jackson are gone. He is clearly one of the top 3 guards. And your Risk is reduced in the 2nd.
That said, if both are available when we pick, I would take Jackson. Safer choice, very polished, would be an instant starter.
That said, if both are available when we pick, I would take Jackson. Safer choice, very polished, would be an instant starter.
I don't think Booker looks that good outside a small box. You don't see him downfield on screens. Or moving out to pickup blitzers. Booker can manhandle the college players in front of him. I do think he can compete man on man in the NFL. So I'm not saying Booker will bust.
I would comp Booker to Bills OG O'Cyrus Torrence. Torrence was selected 2.59 in the 2023 draft and has started 33 of his 34 games. Like Booker, Torrence was an All SEC lineman. Like Booker, he is massive. Like Booker, he did not test well at the combine. But the Bills have been happy with Torrence blocking for Josh Allen and James Cook. Just know what you're getting with a Booker or a Torrence. A guy that can beat up on the guy in front of him, but is of little help downfield or in space.
Let me paraphrase the legendary Bum Phillips. There are two types of players. Them that's been injured. And them that's gonna be injured. I don't like the post injury prognosis of a player that is as physically limited as Booker.
We're thinking alike.
Conerly is now my favorite for 1-25. I'm passing on the iol for Conerly. The only guy that might be there that I would pick over Conerly would be Loveland at 1-25, but I don't think he will be there.
Not if Conerly, Banks or Jackson were available
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
TheRealJoker V2
Veteran
Conerly is my #2 OT that might be available at 25 behind Kelvin Banks. I am still firming up what positions I want taken where for my final mock.
Honestly don’t think the Texans stick and pick at 25. Could see a trade up or down depending on Caserio’s opportunity. He will not Brian Gaine the selection and let someone hop in front of him (even though it worked out in favor or Houston for someone else to take Dillard).
TheRealJoker V2
Veteran
Pick 25 is a prime trade up spot for a team looking to get their QB. Really pick 20 (ahead of Steelers) is where I could see some movement. But if more than one first round prospect falls then maybe Nick can engineer a trade down.
Lots of similarly rated prospects in that second half of the first round. Where do you cut the tiers and stop considering a trade up for a particular player?
I wouldn’t trade up more than five or so spots for a prospect this year. But I could see Nick doing it for a guy like Tyler Warren, Kelvin Banks or one of the many first round DTs. Also heard chatter on Golden but i’m not interested in trading up for a WR2 for this team.
A guy like Warren will make less than a WR2 even with top end TE money the way contracts are looking if both “hit” while providing as good or better production… See: Trey Mcbride and Tee Higgins.
Lots of similarly rated prospects in that second half of the first round. Where do you cut the tiers and stop considering a trade up for a particular player?
I wouldn’t trade up more than five or so spots for a prospect this year. But I could see Nick doing it for a guy like Tyler Warren, Kelvin Banks or one of the many first round DTs. Also heard chatter on Golden but i’m not interested in trading up for a WR2 for this team.
A guy like Warren will make less than a WR2 even with top end TE money the way contracts are looking if both “hit” while providing as good or better production… See: Trey Mcbride and Tee Higgins.
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After seeing how Howard has played since he suffered this injury, I would pass. I can't believe any Texans fan would advocate for drafting Simmons.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Same. I want no part of Simmons at this point.
Porky
Hall of Fame
At first I was on him because they said the "right things" - ahead of schedule, expected to recover, etc etc.
But the last couple of weeks, based on feedback from Doc Jean, as well as other things I've seen and read, he's off "my board," such as it is, which is totally meaningless other than in my head.
That is to say...if I were making the big bucks like tricky Nicky...he would 100% NOT be a Texan.
cland
Rookie
I wouldn't take him at 25, but if he slips to the 2nd round I go with the ole "You gotta risk it for the biscuit."
calishung7717
Waterboy
1.25 = 720
2.33 = 580
The Browns could come close the 140 point difference with their 3rd at 3.94 (124 pts) +their 6th round at 6.192 (15 pts).
This deal makes sense as the Rams may covet Dart at 1.26.