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Texans doubters

Dutchrudder

King of the Potato People
Jesus christ you guys are literally like mouthpieces for sports radio around here.

Lol, lets just play this leverage thing out to the end shall we..............

the Texans...... if they were real a-holes and intent on sticking it to Clowney, could've franchised the hell out of him for 2 years, let him leave after that for a 3rd compensatory pick, kept all their future picks in the process.... and would've saved at minimum 10+ million in the process.......That is, if they were real a-holes...but under no circumstances do they lose with JD holding his "leverage". Even if he comes back & "lays like a rug" for 2 years on the tag, Clowney's doing more damage to himself with other teams around the league than he is to the Texans FO.

Clowney's "leverage" was not signing the tender until he was traded to a place he wanted to go.......which if he played that out all the way to the end under the Texans FO a-hole scenario would've either cost him upwards of 20+ million for 2 years ............that he wasn't going to recoup. even if he comes back week 10, he's likely not putting up substantial numbers for anyone to pay a significant amount of anything for him....he's also 2 years older & closer to that knee eventually blowing out on him. Where is the "leverage" in that stance lol?

Fact is, neither of these scenarios plays well for either party. The Texans capitulated & lost, but lets not act like JD's "leverage" was a significant factor in that...His greatest leverage if you call it that was that the FO didn't care too much about losing him.....but that's more apathy than anything lol.
You must not understand what "leverage" means. Clowney could decline any trade he wanted by not signing the tender, which he was rumored to have done for the Dolphins proposed trade. Whether that's true or not, the scenario is still the same, he was able to dictate the destination team of any trade involving him because he never signed his tender. His "leverage" was that he could essentially tell the Texans the few teams he would be willing to go if they were intent on trading him. That narrows his market, reduces his value and forces the team to play a bad hand. That is absolutely significant to the situation.

The leverage the Texans had was as you stated, lost salary, veteran years accrued and potentially image issues when marketing himself to a new team. That's why I said the Texans should have waited it out this game of chicken. If the money, playing time, etc is worth that much to him, (I think it is) then he would definitely come back to the team at some point. Nobody expects him to quit on the team and play half-assed in a contract year; if he did that, he would only be hurting his future value, which was the entire point of this situation for him. Him leaving next year in free agency likely nets them a 3rd comp pick anyways. I think the Texans caved too early because they had some leverage to exert too, but instead they paid 11.2 million for a definite 3rd round pick, Mingo (who was going to be cut by Seattle that evening) and 2nd year OLB Martin. That's not a good return no matter how you slice it.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
My biggest doubt is on defense and the fact that Mercilus is not good enough to set edges against the run. He and Scarlett will be easy to contain and wall. Im hoping that RAC is going to involve Cunningham more as his elephant this year. If the defensive rating can hold around 15th I would be surprised. Our secondary is going to burn. But hey thats what the next draft is for, and the next and the next!! YAY!

OBrien did get his wish though, no more excuses for the offense ... NONE!

Im looking forward to Fairbairn dominating the kicking game again this year and hopefully the other units can at least be average.
 
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Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
You must not understand what "leverage" means. Clowney could decline any trade he wanted by not signing the tender, which he was rumored to have done for the Dolphins proposed trade. Whether that's true or not, the scenario is still the same, he was able to dictate the destination team of any trade involving him because he never signed his tender. His "leverage" was that he could essentially tell the Texans the few teams he would be willing to go if they were intent on trading him. That narrows his market, reduces his value and forces the team to play a bad hand. That is absolutely significant to the situation.

The leverage the Texans had was as you stated, lost salary, veteran years accrued and potentially image issues when marketing himself to a new team. That's why I said the Texans should have waited it out this game of chicken. If the money, playing time, etc is worth that much to him, (I think it is) then he would definitely come back to the team at some point. Nobody expects him to quit on the team and play half-assed in a contract year; if he did that, he would only be hurting his future value, which was the entire point of this situation for him. Him leaving next year in free agency likely nets them a 3rd comp pick anyways. I think the Texans caved too early because they had some leverage to exert too, but instead they paid 11.2 million for a definite 3rd round pick, Mingo (who was going to be cut by Seattle that evening) and 2nd year OLB Martin. That's not a good return no matter how you slice it.
This ^^^^^

Except that the Texans had all of the leverage. They had all of it. Clowney just had the short term leverage of the Texans looking bad if they had a horrible start to the season. All they had to do was hold onto him as he would have come back and played strong for the next part of the season and we could have marketed him a lot better going into next off season still holding the option to franchise him again if we wanted to. Clowney was literally our hostage as long as we wanted him to be.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
That's what O'Brien is best at (awesome at, really) is grinding wins out through the middle of the season after being unprepared at the beginning and before choking at the end.
Best way to describe his best seasons and exactly how you expect them to go with him at helm.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You must not understand what "leverage" means. Clowney could decline any trade he wanted by not signing the tender, which he was rumored to have done for the Dolphins proposed trade. Whether that's true or not, the scenario is still the same, he was able to dictate the destination team of any trade involving him because he never signed his tender. His "leverage" was that he could essentially tell the Texans the few teams he would be willing to go if they were intent on trading him. That narrows his market, reduces his value and forces the team to play a bad hand. That is absolutely significant to the situation.

The leverage the Texans had was as you stated, lost salary, veteran years accrued and potentially image issues when marketing himself to a new team. That's why I said the Texans should have waited it out this game of chicken. If the money, playing time, etc is worth that much to him, (I think it is) then he would definitely come back to the team at some point. Nobody expects him to quit on the team and play half-assed in a contract year; if he did that, he would only be hurting his future value, which was the entire point of this situation for him. Him leaving next year in free agency likely nets them a 3rd comp pick anyways. I think the Texans caved too early because they had some leverage to exert too, but instead they paid 11.2 million for a definite 3rd round pick, Mingo (who was going to be cut by Seattle that evening) and 2nd year OLB Martin. That's not a good return no matter how you slice it.
We know what they "should've" done. No dispute there. But as I said, the only way Clowney had any leverage is by the Texans FO handing it to him by capitulating like they did. But don't confuse the FO's gaffe with him having actual leverage b/c they just as easily could've played hard ball and watched JD squirm for 2-3 years or retire....... like Mike Brown did with Carson Palmer.
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
This ^^^^^

Except that the Texans had all of the leverage. They had all of it. Clowney just had the short term leverage of the Texans looking bad if they had a horrible start to the season. All they had to do was hold onto him as he would have come back and played strong for the next part of the season and we could have marketed him a lot better going into next off season still holding the option to franchise him again if we wanted to. Clowney was literally our hostage as long as we wanted him to be.
you assume O'Brien had the discipline to wait Clowney out. Firing Gaine should have shown you he doesn't
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Im looking forward to Fairbairn dominating the kicking game again this year and hopefully the other units can at least be average.
Thought it was funny on NFLN this morning they did their top five "start 'em" & top 5 "sit 'em" for this weekend.

They said sit the defense. They said start Ka'imi.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
It's that easy?
It's not easy, but it can be done.

Good orgs find a way.

Plus if they need a 1st rd pick to get a CB they have the ammo to trade into the 1st if they choose too. I'm optimistic, they found Reid in the 3rd for goodness sakes.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
So tell me, did how many picks did a good org like the Saints have in last yrs draft?
They didn't have a first last year, but they had first every other year going back to 2013, and they had TWO firsts in 2017 and 2015. No wonder they are contending now. They had multiple 2nds and 3rds.

If the argument is that Saints waste picks as much as the Texans do, I believe that's wrong.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
They didn't have a first last year, but they had first every other year going back to 2013, and they had TWO firsts in 2017 and 2015. No wonder they are contending now. They had multiple 2nds and 3rds.

If the argument is that Saints waste picks as much as the Texans do, I believe that's wrong.
Never mind those 3 consecutive sub .500 seasons during that same time....
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
What about them?
It illustrates how long it took for them to get back to contending status...Lots of wasted picks in that time frame as well. You can also argue that the most important player on their team outside of Drew isn't even a 1st or 2nd round pick.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
It illustrates how long it took for them to get back to contending status...Lots of wasted picks in that time frame as well. You can also argue that the most important player on their team outside of Drew isn't even a 1st or 2nd round pick.
So then they got back to contenders buy using their draft capital smartly
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Their RT was a 2017 first rounder.

Their RB was a 2017 third rounder.

Their best wr was a 2017 second rounder.

One CB was a 2017 first round pick

One DE was a 2018 first round pick

Their DT was a first round pick in 2016

Their SS was a second round pick in 2016.


Another DT was a 2015 first round pick.

Sometimes they do trade. They got another CB who was a former first rounder by trading a 4th and a 7th, not getting ripped off.

Notice a lot of these guys are on cheap
rookie contracts letting them spend money elsewhere.

You build through draft. It has been known forever. Seattle won the super bowl the same way by hitting on a lot of high picks and then having extra money to spend elsewhere.

The Texans are doing the opposite
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
They didn't have a first last year, but they had first every other year going back to 2013, and they had TWO firsts in 2017 and 2015. No wonder they are contending now. They had multiple 2nds and 3rds.

If the argument is that Saints waste picks as much as the Texans do, I believe that's wrong.
They traded two 1sts to move up for Davenport, they also traded extra picks to move up for Kamara and a 3rd for Apple.

This conversation is done because I think you're trolling me.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
They traded two 1sts to move up for Davenport, they also traded extra picks to move up for Kamara and a 3rd for Apple.

This conversation is done because I think you're trolling me.
They traded one first for Davenport. And they are clearly in win now mode. You don't do it in year 2 of a 3 year rebuild.

For kamara it was a 2nd and a 7th.

For apple it was a 4th and a 7th.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Texans are in a much better position to win a super bowl this year than they were a week ago. It’s all about getting better. It’s about this season and it’s wide open. When we get to next season than we will focus on it

They are better than they were a week ago …. but they aren't better enough to beat the teams they have to beat in the playoffs to reach that superb owl. They're the 4th best team in the conference …. but the difference between #4 to #1 or #2 is vast , mainly due to coaching.

I expect them to win 11 games …. then get curb stomped in the 2nd round of the playoffs by one of KC , NE or SD.
 
Bill O’Brien’s Laremy Tunsil trade:
- landed a franchise LT
- fixed the offensive line
- cleaned up Brian Gaine’s mess
- saved Deshaun Watson
- saved the Texans season

Was it expensive? Sure. But was it worth it? Not even a question. When you have generational talent at qb. Youre suppose to make mistakes finding players to protect him and surrounding him with talent. We can’t have the perfect coach or gm like lucky New England but draft picks won’t even matter for 2 years if Deshaun is really a championship qb. Which I don’t doubt, but Ob knows he needs to start off hot or he’s gone mid season.

wow hes like jesus
Thx
 
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Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back might want to remember one thing. If BoB hadn't completely changed the scheme, or let someone else call still not sure on that one, we would have been right back where we were last year with Watson on track to get 60+ sacks again. To give you an idea, Watson has not taken a single sack in the last two games yet he is still the 5th most sacked QB. I like the Tunsil trade and most of the moves made in the off season but lets not kid ourselves about what the biggest difference maker was and its the system switching
 
blah blah blah

We'll find out soon enough who's right and who's not.
Wow, you really need to stop drinking the battle red kool-aid. Or do you work in the Texans PR dept.?
Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back might want to remember one thing. If BoB hadn't completely changed the scheme, or let someone else call still not sure on that one, we would have been right back where we were last year with Watson on track to get 60+ sacks again. To give you an idea, Watson has not taken a single sack in the last two games yet he is still the 5th most sacked QB. I like the Tunsil trade and most of the moves made in the off season but lets not kid ourselves about what the biggest difference maker was and its the system switching
That’s funny because I was one of the few that said the scheme would have to change before the season even started. After the Tunsil trade. I also said the line would start to gel around week 5. Week 5 was the 0 sack game. I’m not here to pat my self on the back if that’s what you think. I get that I haven’t really been wrong with my predictions where ever I post them but I just try to help you guys see the clear picture. A lot of you guys have great football iq. Not taking away from that when I make my predictions and although some of them may sound crazy. I can’t recall the last time I was off, that’s how long it’s been. A lot of folks were mad about giving up draft picks to get a star lt. I just thought it was ridiculous and it’s too many people on here that expects the worst
 
That’s funny because I was one of the few that said the scheme would have to change before the season even started. After the Tunsil trade. I also said the line would start to gel around week 5. Week 5 was the 0 sack game. I’m not here to pat my self on the back if that’s what you think. I get that I haven’t really been wrong with my predictions where ever I post them but I just try to help you guys see the clear picture. A lot of you guys have great football iq. Not taking away from that when I make my predictions and although some of them may sound crazy. I can’t recall the last time I was off, that’s how long it’s been. A lot of folks were mad about giving up draft picks to get a star lt. I just thought it was ridiculous and it’s too many people on here that expects the worst
You were one of the few? :lol::corrosion:lol:lol:

Kid most of us have been calling for BoB to change the scheme since......well I actually don't recall a time someone wasn't calling for him to change it. In particular since Watson was drafted. Ah the arrogance of youth.
 
You were one of the few? :lol::corrosion:lol:lol:

Kid most of us have been calling for BoB to change the scheme since......well I actually don't recall a time someone wasn't calling for him to change it. In particular since Watson was drafted. Ah the arrogance of youth.
I get called delusional because I make unfavored predictions that later on become accurate and I’m called arrogant when I bring it up. I just can’t win man but it’s cool. Call me arrogant or w.e makes you smile. It’s nice seeing doubters like yourself get choked up.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
That’s funny because I was one of the few that said the scheme would have to change before the season even started. After the Tunsil trade. I also said the line would start to gel around week 5. Week 5 was the 0 sack game. I’m not here to pat my self on the back if that’s what you think. I get that I haven’t really been wrong with my predictions where ever I post them but I just try to help you guys see the clear picture. A lot of you guys have great football iq. Not taking away from that when I make my predictions and although some of them may sound crazy. I can’t recall the last time I was off, that’s how long it’s been. A lot of folks were mad about giving up draft picks to get a star lt. I just thought it was ridiculous and it’s too many people on here that expects the worst
I'm just glad that many agree that the offensive scheme has changed. Unlike some on this MB.

BTW, I gave them until week 6 for the OL to come together. Does that make me wrong? I wonder how the OL is going to look against a competent Colts defense this weekend.
 
Good for you but how about you take your stupid **** somewhere else. You called me arrogant because I came back to my prediction thread.. That’s the whole point of making a prediction thread to see whose right. I don’t have the tolerance to go back and forth with people who act like kids so have a good day, god bless lol
You want to know what is so fun, you completely blow up when someone calls you a kid, fyi in real life I call most everyone kid when I'm talking to them, and the only ones who do that are people sensitive about it. You know who those people are, kids. It just gets all the better when you then tell me to F off and all the other stuff further proving my point.

So you predicted that BoB needed to change the scheme, no **** Sherlock, we were all saying that, the question was why did he need to change it. Was it because of BoB or Watson or the EP system itself. So you predicted Tunsil would be good, yeah most of us knew that it was just a question of how good and was it worth the price. So you predicted that the line would start to gel week 5, again anyone that has watched football knows it takes awhile for young lines to learn each other and I remember Steel in particular saying week 5 or 6 would be when we would start to see it. Also doesn't hurt that the last two teams have got some of the worse defenses in the NFL right now.

Your great predictions were things pretty much everyone knew and we just didn't see the need to point it out because it was common knowledge. Let me guess you have also predicted the sun will rise in the east and you have never been wrong.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Everybody on here has agreed the offensive schemes has changed.

Some thinks ( 2 members) we are running Clemson's offense.

While others believe we're running the true EP system with some RPO action sprinkled into it.

And Watson was not confused like one member keep trying to drive home . If that's the case, well Brady was confused against the Bill's a few weeks ago huh.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
BTW, I gave them until week 6 for the OL to come together. Does that make me wrong? I wonder how the OL is going to look against a competent Colts defense this weekend.
It would probably look better with a healthy Howard in there. You going to hang your hat on the results this week, now that we're a major piece down?
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
There is three reasons why the line looked better in week 5/6.

1. We started getting the ball out a lot quicker. Recievers started running MORE shorter routes, tight ends are used more up the middle and the backs are swinging out for passes. You are starting see more crossing routes as well. Watson is not holding onto the ball.

2. The defenses we've faced were atrociously bad. Neither one of those teams are getting after the quarterbacks like that.

3. Coach Obrien finally got out of his own way.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
It would probably look better with a healthy Howard in there. You going to hang your hat on the results this week, now that we're a major piece down?
I like RJo alot. He's better than most swing OT's. He's improved to the point where he's atleast as good as Davenport was last yr, if not better. So I do expect some drop off do to the quality of the Colts defense in addition to the fact that Howard was really improving quickly.

I just hope RJo can stay healthy for 6 weeks because there's no more depth at OT behind him and on the OL in general as we saw when Fulton got hurt and was replaced by Mancz.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I'm just glad that many agree that the offensive scheme has changed. Unlike some on this MB.

BTW, I gave them until week 6 for the OL to come together. Does that make me wrong? I wonder how the OL is going to look against a competent Colts defense this weekend.
Lol. You are starting to annoy people by being right.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Lol. You are starting to annoy people by being right.

Some people are annoyed with things totally different than what you are saying right now.

He is not right about Watson and what offense we ran during these last two games.

These quick hitters, better known as the dink and donk is why Watson hasn't been sacked in week 5/6. This type of offense is also helping the offensive line out as well.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Lol. You are starting to annoy people by being right.
People see what they want to see.

I just ask those people to go back and look at how every other team runs the EP compared to what BOB's currently running.

Doesn't really matter though, at the end of the day the changes have been for the better.
 


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