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Texans Defense is terrible. Absolutely terrible!

banned1976

All Pro
It's possible that the guys on defense I wanted gone yesterday just don't fit the scheme/design and the new coaching staff will be able to coax as much potential out of these guys as humanly possible. I'm just not hopeful that this is true. Mercilus has always been the guy that vanishes for long periods of time. He's barely showing up on that stat sheets this year. Cunningham has always been a shoulder tackler. McKinney has always been a one dimensional linebacker in a game that has evolved the TE position. Eric Murray is a $20 million JAG that couldn't stick with last years terrible Browns team. Every CB not named Roby are fringe practice squad players.
 

banned1976

All Pro
I'd rather the next GM make these decisions, anyway. Easterby can just hold prayer meetings, or something, from here on.
I'd rather a consultant (someone who has zero ties [emotional or otherwise] to anyone in the org) come in now, evaluate the entire organization and recommend who to keep, who to trade, and who to cut ties with. The Texans have a head start in their search of any other team that will be trying to rebuild next year, and they should use that head start wisely.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I dont think the defense will take as long as most think to rebuild.

Get a big DT and go to a hybrid 3-4.

Hankins would be my NT. I would also sign Avery Williamson who is a good coverage LB. Then draft a good coverage LB like Jabril Cox in the draft. Even if I had to trade up into the 2nd rd to get him. Watt would be traded in this scenario.

Front 7

Blacklock Rankins Omenihu (Reserve Hall/Dunn/Late Rd draft pick I Like Brown III from A&M)

J. Martin/Williamson/Cox/Cunningham. (Reserves Mercilus/Cole/Greenard/Adams)

The rest of he season would be spent finding out if LoJo can play FS. Even if he can I would spend one 4th/5th rd pick bringing B.J. Foster home.

The rest of the draft would be focused on finding a 4th rd RD RB. I like Robinson, Harris backup at Alabama. That dude is very talented. An OG (Moving Fulton to C) A WR Stephenson from UH should be there in the 4th/5th Rd.

Trades of Watt/WFV should bolster the draft pick options.
 
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I'd try to extend Fuller to a one year deal. That's probably all he'd get this offseason anyways. No one is going to commit long term to Will Fuller, especially this COVID offseason.
Why bother to extend him? The guy hasn't finished a season yet and isn't cut out to be a #1 WR. Let his rookie contract play out then let him walk and get what you can in comp picks for him.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I think it would be a crime to let any player walk or have to cut them in the off-season. I believe the Texans biggest move was to ditch OB as the GM/HC. This is a signal to all NFL teams that this organization could be preparing for an overhaul......they need to take advantage of this opportunity so they can get the best possible something for these players versus the off-season when teams will just wait for them to be cut. That could be another black eye for the organization.

This is the same situation the Astros found themselves in when they were looking to sale the team. The Texans, unfortunately, aren't looking for a new buyer but they are looking for a new GM and HC and at the moment, their current situation may not attract the right folks. Really sucks when the team lacks cap space, draft picks, and talent. So, move the requisite contracted players who could give the team any kind of return versus a nothing return. Young players, picks (probably RD3, 4, and 5's), and cap relief could at least give the "potential" leadership team something to work with while making the Texans a better looking option and not such a lost case.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It's possible that the guys on defense I wanted gone yesterday just don't fit the scheme/design and the new coaching staff will be able to coax as much potential out of these guys as humanly possible.
Listening to the coaches show Monday, Anthony Weaver said it's more mental issues, new players, new positions & things like that. Sounds like he think it's something they can definitely fix.
 

banned1976

All Pro
Listening to the coaches show Monday, Anthony Weaver said it's more mental issues, new players, new positions & things like that. Sounds like he think it's something they can definitely fix.
They don't have many new starters on defense. Only a hand full (starters and backups) are new to the Texans. If it's mental lapses from the front 7, that started in the Baltimore game last year. The secondary sucked basically all of last season.

Maybe the "mental issues" are some of those guys just don't want to play football anymore. Can't coach that.

I guess we'll find out against GB if the mental issues are fixable. Because if they aren't fixed real quick, the Texans are going to be 1-6. At that point, might as well play Greenard, Blacklock and John Reid the rest of the season. If the Texans are going to wait until the offseason to try and work on moving some vets out, I'd like to see the rookies out there sooner rather than later.
 

Decim8

Waterboy
It hasn't been said as much but the dumb move was trading the 2nd rounder for Cooks when the last draft was one of the deepest WR drafts ever and you trade for someone with a high salary and concussion issues.
I think some here were defending the trade and used covid and the lack of training camp as an excuse that drafting any rookies this year would be a mistake and wouldn't be up to par compared to veterans lol

And if you want to feel better about the trade just remember, with OB whatever WR we wouldve drafted this year......wouldve been in the doghouse some how lol
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Listening to the coaches show Monday, Anthony Weaver said it's more mental issues, new players, new positions & things like that. Sounds like he think it's something they can definitely fix.
LMAO

Can they make the Lab's faster or teach Murray how not to try to make slide tackles?
 
I think it would be a crime to let any player walk or have to cut them in the off-season. I believe the Texans biggest move was to ditch OB as the GM/HC. This is a signal to all NFL teams that this organization could be preparing for an overhaul......they need to take advantage of this opportunity so they can get the best possible something for these players versus the off-season when teams will just wait for them to be cut. That could be another black eye for the organization.

This is the same situation the Astros found themselves in when they were looking to sale the team. The Texans, unfortunately, aren't looking for a new buyer but they are looking for a new GM and HC and at the moment, their current situation may not attract the right folks. Really sucks when the team lacks cap space, draft picks, and talent. So, move the requisite contracted players who could give the team any kind of return versus a nothing return. Young players, picks (probably RD3, 4, and 5's), and cap relief could at least give the "potential" leadership team something to work with while making the Texans a better looking option and not such a lost case.
You're not going to get any value for a guy like Fuller who, again, hasn't finished a season without injury. Extending him is throwing good money after bad because what good is another year going to do? Even if we hire a GM and HC in the off season they're not going to be able to do anything with the team for at least a year or two. You'd most likely get more from a comp pick then any team would be willing to trade for him. As far as other teams go we are 1-5, have no first round pick, are in cap hell and just fired our HC and GM. You really think any team is going to take us serious at the bargaining table right now? Plus we, again, don't have anybody of real value except for Watson and maybe Watt.

Also again we come to this narrative of "We can't attract the right people to hire" as if anybody that wants to coach in the NFL can be picky about where they go. Not sure why the idea that there are only 32 of this job in the entire world is hard for people to wrap their heads around but every NFL coach and want-a-be NFL coach is a living example of "beggers can't be choosers". Nobody who has ever actually coached an NFL team was able to say "I will only coach a team that has plenty of draft picks, cap space and a good roster" and the reason is because those kind of teams aren't looking to hire a HC. Plus do we really want a coach that isn't willing to take on the challenge of turning a team around? Only thing a possible new HC could say is "I'll need 2-4 years to really turn the team around and get all the pieces in place because I'll be starting behind the eight ball." That they can say and on that they have a legitimate argument but saying "Nope I won't work there because it would be to much of a challenge." means they either have no real interest in being a HC or they have the completely wrong mind set for it. Either way it would be a bullet dodged for us.
 
Listening to the coaches show Monday, Anthony Weaver said it's more mental issues, new players, new positions & things like that. Sounds like he think it's something they can definitely fix.
He's a first time DC that knows he most likely only has one season and is trying to build a resume for his next job. What's he suppose to say "Yeah we just suck and I have no clue how to fix it and RAC is to being sitting in O'Brien's old office with his feet on the desk laughing to help."
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Why bother to extend him? The guy hasn't finished a season yet and isn't cut out to be a #1 WR. Let his rookie contract play out then let him walk and get what you can in comp picks for him.
Because I think we'd be able to sign him for 2021 for cheap. Fuller has a lot of talent. If he can prove he can survive a whole season and gain over 1000 yards, he could make some pretty good money.

I would try to extend him now for one more year. Roll the dice he survives.

I just don't like selling low on players. If we trade him now, we're selling low.

But of course, if he's looking for a long term extension now, then trade his azz
 
Because I think we'd be able to sign him for 2021 for cheap. Fuller has a lot of talent. If he can prove he can survive a whole season and gain over 1000 yards, he could make some pretty good money.

I would try to extend him now for one more year. Roll the dice he survives.

I just don't like selling low on players. If we trade him now, we're selling low.

But of course, if he's looking for a long term extension now, then trade his azz
Or just let him walk and see what we’d get in comp picks. Fact is in our current situation having Fuller for a year, even if he stays healthy, doesn’t help us because we are in full rebuild mode.
 

banned1976

All Pro
Roby only looks good to Texan fans because the other CB's are so bad.

There is an argument to the Hopkins deal but there is no excuse not get a first rounder in the deal. It hasn't been said as much but the dumb move was trading the 2nd rounder for Cooks when the last draft was one of the deepest WR drafts ever and you trade for someone with a high salary and concussion issues.
Don't forget, they gave up a 3rd round pick for Gareon Conley, who will have played about half a season for them (they declined extending him so he's a FA in 2021) before he bids adios, and a 3rd round pick for Duke Johnson, whom they have rarely used at all. There are just too many dumb moves to classify one of them as "the dumb move".

Damn this team is screwed up. And this is the year before the really bad year!
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Don't forget, they gave up a 3rd round pick for Gareon Conley, who will have played about half a season for them (they declined extending him so he's a FA in 2021) before he bids adios, and a 3rd round pick for Duke Johnson, whom they have rarely used at all. There are just too many dumb moves to classify one of them as "the dumb move".

Damn this team is screwed up. And this is the year before the really bad year!
Don’t forget basically a 2nd for Kenny Stills too.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
why oh why is Hargreaves starting at outside CB, while Johnson Jnr. seems to be having some kind of try out at safety.

Let Lonnie sink or swim at outside corner now, see if he can get it.

I also wonder if there’s any hope of Conley returning this season. Terrible timing for his injury as we needed this season to see what we had in him.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
why oh why is Hargreaves starting at outside CB, while Johnson Jnr. seems to be having some kind of try out at safety.

Let Lonnie sink or swim at outside corner now, see if he can get it.
Crennel thinks LoJo is better suited at safety
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
You're not going to get any value for a guy like Fuller who, again, hasn't finished a season without injury. Extending him is throwing good money after bad because what good is another year going to do? Even if we hire a GM and HC in the off season they're not going to be able to do anything with the team for at least a year or two. You'd most likely get more from a comp pick then any team would be willing to trade for him. As far as other teams go we are 1-5, have no first round pick, are in cap hell and just fired our HC and GM. You really think any team is going to take us serious at the bargaining table right now? Plus we, again, don't have anybody of real value except for Watson and maybe Watt.

Also again we come to this narrative of "We can't attract the right people to hire" as if anybody that wants to coach in the NFL can be picky about where they go. Not sure why the idea that there are only 32 of this job in the entire world is hard for people to wrap their heads around but every NFL coach and want-a-be NFL coach is a living example of "beggers can't be choosers". Nobody who has ever actually coached an NFL team was able to say "I will only coach a team that has plenty of draft picks, cap space and a good roster" and the reason is because those kind of teams aren't looking to hire a HC. Plus do we really want a coach that isn't willing to take on the challenge of turning a team around? Only thing a possible new HC could say is "I'll need 2-4 years to really turn the team around and get all the pieces in place because I'll be starting behind the eight ball." That they can say and on that they have a legitimate argument but saying "Nope I won't work there because it would be to much of a challenge." means they either have no real interest in being a HC or they have the completely wrong mind set for it. Either way it would be a bullet dodged for us.
Fuller is healthy right now and that’s pretty much what counts. If healthy, he’s an asset to the receiving team.

As I mentioned in another post, package Watt and Fuller to the Packers for RB, DJ Dillon and a 2021 RD3 or a 2022 RD2.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
If he walks, do you think he'll get a good offer somewhere?
If so, will that bring a comp pick?
I agree with Corrosion but I don't see any significant FA being signed here so in that aspect we should get comps for Fuller and Stills, perhaps a third and a 7th if Stills morphs into a top three NFL wide receiver. He was decent 2019 but he must have drank out of same bottle of "fall apart juice" that Howard and Scharpie did.
No matter whom we cut or trade where do we get cap space under 175 m to sign these one or two year deals? Clearing space is important but not to use in free agency. Getting draft picks is important.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Can we franchise tag him?

This years tag for a WR is $17.865m .... Next years will likely be in that same ballpark , too high for WFV.

I'd try to extend Fuller to a one year deal. That's probably all he'd get this offseason anyways. No one is going to commit long term to Will Fuller, especially this COVID offseason.

For how much ?

This might be one of the few offseasons where FA's are willing to take one year deals because the money is going to be so tight. Otherwise they want the security of longer term deals , particularly a guy with the injury history of a WFV.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I'd try to extend Fuller to a one year deal. That's probably all he'd get this offseason anyways. No one is going to commit long term to Will Fuller, especially this COVID offseason.
I think Fuller may agree to team friendly extension ala Roby with high dollars late and not GTD.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
For how much ?

This might be one of the few offseasons where FA's are willing to take one year deals because the money is going to be so tight. Otherwise they want the security of longer term deals , particularly a guy with the injury history of a WFV.
I don't have an exact number as I don't know the going rate for receivers... but more of a one year, team friendly, prove it deal. I would do this now, so that if WFV finishes 2020 with 16 games and 1000+ yards, then his trade value is high.

I'm willing to take that gamble, rather than let him walk or trade him now. I feel if we trade him now, 6th rounder is probably what we're looking at.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Listening to the coaches show Monday, Anthony Weaver said it's more mental issues, new players, new positions & things like that. Sounds like he think it's something they can definitely fix.
Do you think Weaver in six games has progressively improved his players in basics such as tackling, blocking and remaining in their lanes? If not and same for Kelly, should they be terminated immediately?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Can we franchise tag him?

This years tag for a WR is $17.865m .... Next years will likely be in that same ballpark , too high for WFV.
I'd rather the next GM make these decisions, anyway. Easterby can just hold prayer meetings, or something, from here on.
In the case of guys like Fuller who are expiring after this season , you either move them now or potentially lose them for nothing via FA - tho there is the possibility of gaining a comp pick.
This boils down to which pick is going to be more valuable ... Can you pry a 3rd away from a team for him ? Anything less and you may as well lose him in FA , as long as you don't plan on signing a bunch of "qualifying FA's" this offseason to offset the losses.

The problem this coming offseason is that the definition of "qualifying FA" is going to be unclear .... I expect 25 teams to be forced to cut players to fill out their rosters so the free agent market is going to me loaded with good players.

IF they can create the space , this is probably the best offseason ever for teams to play in the FA market but that means no comp picks so .... maybe you do pull the trigger on these players and take advantage of the bargains in FA to set your cap up for the next 3 years. , if you can get them to commit to those lower figures for multiple years.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Corrosion (I'm learning that you're the one to ask) - why do we have a crappy runningback who can't even be successful behind the highest paid tackle ever, MORE debt, no #1 receiver, no assets, and a wealth of #3 receivers? I only ask because Hopkins and a heavier interest in FOOTBALL (I'm screaming expletives at our former coach/gm) might have helped to build the real world necessities of a franchise like nose and ILB positions.
Instrgram



and




Drama
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
9 million 2020 and 11 m next two years was great for starting CB. No one has any idea how a player will perform. I'm not huge fan of Roby and thought he would be gone but almost all thought it was a good deal when signed. Little Monday morning quarterbacking?
It's what he does best.

You wont ever see him making predictions.
 
Fuller is healthy right now and that’s pretty much what counts. If healthy, he’s an asset to the receiving team.

As I mentioned in another post, package Watt and Fuller to the Packers for RB, DJ Dillon and a 2021 RD3 or a 2022 RD2.
We’re only 6 games in, not even half way through and this year he doesn’t have Hopkins to do the heavy lifting.

As far as the Packers go they didn’t use their last pick for a stud WR on a rookie deal why would they trade for an injury prone one that is eligible for vet min now? Don’t get me started on Watt, we love him around Houston but any other team knows his best days are behind him and he could retire anytime now.

It always amazes me how highly people on this board value our players when there is zero evidence to back it up. It’s Clowney all over again, everyone said he was worth the money and teams would be falling over themselves to sign him. He hits FA and barely finds a team at the 11th hour.

Fuller is a game changer when he is healthy but he hasn’t been healthy a single season and CnD can correct me if I’m wrong but as far as I know guys get more injury prone as they age not kess.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
We’re only 6 games in, not even half way through and this year he doesn’t have Hopkins to do the heavy lifting.

As far as the Packers go they didn’t use their last pick for a stud WR on a rookie deal why would they trade for an injury prone one that is eligible for vet min now? Don’t get me started on Watt, we love him around Houston but any other team knows his best days are behind him and he could retire anytime now.

It always amazes me how highly people on this board value our players when there is zero evidence to back it up. It’s Clowney all over again, everyone said he was worth the money and teams would be falling over themselves to sign him. He hits FA and barely finds a team at the 11th hour.

Fuller is a game changer when he is healthy but he hasn’t been healthy a single season and CnD can correct me if I’m wrong but as far as I know guys get more injury prone as they age not kess.
The Pack needs a Wr, if they don't trade for WFV I could see them trading for Cooks
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
We’re only 6 games in, not even half way through and this year he doesn’t have Hopkins to do the heavy lifting.

As far as the Packers go they didn’t use their last pick for a stud WR on a rookie deal why would they trade for an injury prone one that is eligible for vet min now? Don’t get me started on Watt, we love him around Houston but any other team knows his best days are behind him and he could retire anytime now.

It always amazes me how highly people on this board value our players when there is zero evidence to back it up. It’s Clowney all over again, everyone said he was worth the money and teams would be falling over themselves to sign him. He hits FA and barely finds a team at the 11th hour.

Fuller is a game changer when he is healthy but he hasn’t been healthy a single season and CnD can correct me if I’m wrong but as far as I know guys get more injury prone as they age not kess.
Don't even to argue about Clowney's performance.

But the thing about his situation was the Texans not handling things earlier and let him leave with little in return and still had to pay a big chunk of money.

They had to pay $7M of his 2019 salary while taking on Mingo's salary of $4.2M.
 
Don't even to argue about Clowney's performance.

But the thing about his situation was the Texans not handling things earlier and let him leave with little in return and still had to pay a big chunk of money.

They had to pay $7M of his 2019 salary while taking on Mingo's salary of $4.2M.
You are making two different arguments. One argument of the Texans screwing up is very much true because while I wasn't sorry to see him leave anytime you have to pay a player to play for another team you've made a bad deal. As to the other argument on his performance there was nothing he did in 2019, or really before that, which impressed teams as clear by the fact that he almost went into the season unsigned.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Then they should get busy on that proposal with someone and then package those picks to get further up in the draft and/or more picks.
Two 3rds,4ths/5ths and you have the ammo to move up into the 2nd a couple of times if there is somebody you really like.

Plus, imagine adding even more picks by trading say Cooks back to New England or Philly who just lost D. Jackson.
 


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