badboy
Hall of Fame
I have to think Texans knew about Fuller's suspension when they cut Stills. Only five games left so I don't see him coming back; probably get more elsewhere.
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Texans cut WR Kenny Stills!
- Thread starter Mangler
- Start date
You think maybe they didn’t trade him because they knew?
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
Did you study the English language? that is called knowing more is involved. Also called the "understood you". I should not have to list everything but the kitchen sink. You can have the best team ever but IF the QB doesn't have the ability to lead... you have nothing. You never hear anyone say that the DE won the SB. You always here "QB X has taken his team to the big game and won it".
Bottom line is he has to improve. Leadership, choices with the ball and even the things he is considered "good" at already have to get better. Flaco won a SB, not with the gifts of Watson. But, with the ability to know what to do with the ball and when. Having a football IQ that allowed him to learn how to do it. True, reading a D and having a good arm helped.
texanhead08
All Pro
The local media won't break negative stories about the Texans for fear of their credentials being pulled.
National media doesn't have that concern .... What about league media sauces and the 4 letter network ? Are they afraid too ??!
texanhead08
All Pro
They don't care because nationally no one gives a **** about the Texans. There is a reason we always play the first playoff game on Saturday. Its because that is the game with the worst tv ratings every year.
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Then they should be pointing the internet or national guys in the right direction instead of running cover for the Texans or circling the wagons.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
You no more know what Watson’s leadership capabilities are than picking a name from a phone book blind folded and then discussing everyone in the immediate family by name.
All you and everyone else knows is what Watson has been doing with this shite-show known as the Texans. He does possess a winning record while being straddled with a horrible this team but no one knows what his impact would be with a better organization b/c he’s never got to do that.
Halls of justice painted green .... money talking.
I don't recall steel ever going to Watson's house, with intent of arson.
I lived in the area near Schaub's house at the time. He was harassed incessantly.
I lived in the area near Schaub's house at the time. He was harassed incessantly.
The point was then, it was all about Rick Smith. Since he’s been gone, it’s all about Watson.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I would’ve said some wild stuff but I’m going to ignore ole buddy. Everyone on this forum knows he always attacked Rick Smith back then. Then once he was gone he turn his energy on Watson.
Seth Payne said they tried to trade Stills but nobody wanted to pay his current salary.
Hopefully, Coulter and Reid can actually play
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I don’t know about Coulter, IR and all, but with as crappy as this secondary has been, Reid not being able to get on the field says something.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
First: Von Miller says hi.
Second: Eagles won a SB and it wasn't because they had Foles as their QB even if he won MVP and Manning was a name but his only job on the 2015 Broncos was to not turn the ball over and give the defense time to rest and he knew it. Can you even tell me who the QB was for the 2000 Ravens without looking it up? You are basing your statement on the last 20 years or so in the Brady/Belichick era where it has almost always been about the QB because the QB is/was the GOAT. Rodgers has always kept the Packers in the hunt but has only gotten a ring once and the biggest reason is because they never give him a team, Big Ben has won it three times but do the "Killer B's" ring any bells? (No pun intended).
Third: You want to talk Ravens and Joe Flacco ok I'll talk Ravens and Flacco with you.
Flacco came into the NFL as a stop gap QB or luxury backup except that he had two things going for him, the fact he actually was very good in bad weather conditions, something important in Baltimore seeing as it's an outdoor stadium in Maryland, and that he had a first time HC by the name of John William Harbaugh. Now the Harbaugh's are to football coaching what the Manning's are to QBs and he had a GM, Ozzie Newsome, that knew it. Newsome had been with the Ravens literally since they were in Cleveland and working with Belichick he knew the best way to win is to pick the right HC and then get them the team they want. Harbaugh knew the best way to win is to build a complete team and then custom design your scheme around that team.
Flacco was a decent QB but he was also a prime example of coaching matters because you see after the 2012 SB, and his big pay raise, Flacco started to believe his own hype and that started the downhill slide. He did have a pretty good arm but he couldn't read a D to save his life, Harbaugh could read a D. It also didn't hurt that in that SB Flacco was throwing to Bolden and Jones, had Ray Rice as a RB and on defense he had Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. If you want further proof look at how good the Ravens are doing with Jackson, a QB that is just Newton 2.0, and its because again Harbaugh rebuilt the team around Jackson. God if the Ravens had drafted Mahomes or Watson they would be the new football dynasty instead of KC.
I can't think of an offense out there that Watson couldn't run and I don't buy into the idea of having an offense designed around a particular QB. IMO, and it's only my opinion, I think it's more of where and how teams allocate resources for a QB more so than having a special offensive system just for that QB. Exceptions being Baltimore and Arizona. I've never thought Baltimore's offense would be more than a flash in the pan and Watson could've put up similar numbers to Jackson during his MVP campaign and I'm still trying to figure out just what Arizona is trying to do. I, admittedly, have watched very little of Arizona, though. Other than that, Watson can make any throw from the pocket or on the move and appears to be comfortable doing either. Maybe he would be more likely to scramble than Brees is but, aside from that, what does any other team do that is so special that Watson couldn't do it as well?
My opinion, again it's only my opinion, on the Gaine fiasco is that Gaine tried very hard to stay away from high $$ FA signings (being fiscally responsible imo), tried to get the best value possible with lower tier FAs and treaded very lightly around the Clowney situation. I think that Gaine was in a lose-lose situation with all of it. I got the feeling that he was being asked to do the job without a full understanding, from OB, of what was wanted and/or expected. That situation also provided OB the cover to take over the GM position, so he could show the NFL world how a real GM operates, and the Texans now find themselves in one helluva mess that will take a couple of years to get past.
Like every other Texans fan, I wish the Clowney situation had been handled differently, but how much did OBs dislike for Clowney (not a big participant in practice; injury concerns) affect Gaine's decision making?
Agree to disagree about DW4.
Gaine was let go for HR reasons.
Gaine stayed away from because it's the Texans way. So did BOB and RS for that matter. I agree with your take on the Clowney situation. BOB certainly didn't want to re-sign Clowney particularly at 20 mil per yr for multiple yrs.. Gaine wanted to re-sign Clowney. I will let you make the call on who got this right. As of right now Clowney's on IR and headed for yet another surgery. I will let CnD weigh in on Clowney's future as a NFL player.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Honestly I can't think of anyway to say this except you're wrong. Offenses are designed around star players all the time and if you don't buy that then frankly you haven't paid much attention to the NFL period. I get that its just your opinion and you are fully entitled to it but I can't for the life of me understand what you are basing that opinion on. He had an offense designed for him at Clemson and all the scouting reports said that he would be a great QB but he would need an offense designed for him in the NFL. There is nothing wrong with that as most QBs do but to say Watson can run any offense there is zero evidence to back that up. Being able to make any throw is miles different from being able to run any offense. You ask what does any other team do that Watson couldn't, which I'm not sure I understand the question itself, and I would say they play to their QBs strengths and don't try to make them something they're not.
Now to be clear by designing a scheme I don't mean a coach goes it and creates an entirely new playbook for a QB but they do adjust and sometimes those are big adjustments. You think BB is running the same offense with Cam that he did with Brady? Harbaugh actually did throw out the book when he went from Flacco to Jackson and it made Jackson an MVP. I've said all along OB's biggest mistake was trying to change the QB to fit the system rather than change the system to fit the QB.
As far as Gaine goes again you can believe what you want but frankly your bias and hatred for Bill O'Brien is clouding your judgement. OB isn't the reason Gaine got fired and, you really won't believe this, wasn't after the GM job. Now I grant you he didn't turn it down when it was offered but news flash most coaches wouldn't turn down the authority to make all team decisions. Again believe what you want and I'm not here to try and change your mind but I will say you are missing a lot of facts when it comes to Gaine and that whole thing.
badboy
Hall of Fame
That was probably a part although I do think Watson was a part of that. What better way to bond with him and his teammates by keeping Fuller and looking for wins?
Can anyone recall a player getting traded and getting immediately suspended for PEDs? Could it simply be teams were aware of the failed drug test and low balled the Texans?
Also, when you consider there is an appeals process, I wonder if any team who was interested in trading for Fuller would have been informed of his appeal.
Also, when you consider there is an appeals process, I wonder if any team who was interested in trading for Fuller would have been informed of his appeal.
Meaningless wins while hampering their cap situation (No rollover) and having less draft capital? (This not only goes for WFV but Watt/N.Martin etc...) It was time to look to the future and how to best position the Texans for the future. Another test Cal and his merry band of committee members utter failed.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Again you have your opinion but others have theirs. I can see more W's and players like Watt being a positive for coaches. You know I have long mocked trades to gain picks and lower cap but I can understand CAL's POV as it seems to be. It may take more than he is willing to give to admit mistakes and start over.
You're really not understanding what I have said. I lament your inability to read. Merry Christmas.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
And I lament your inability to carry on a civil discussion without resorting to insults. Merry Christmas to you as well.
Why do I get the feeling that if they were losing these same games, you would have kept your "DW4 bad game counter" going and complaining they should trade Watson because he cannot even beat bad teams and defenses? My point? Regardless if they are winning or losing games, you would consider it a failure.
I would,
Because I dont consider beating up on the dregs or seriously compromised teams to be a great accomplishment. You feel differently and that's alright. Agree to disagree.
Les see how he performs against the Colts twice and the Bears defenses before we pass judgement. I understand losing WFV is a built in excuse.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
So anyway, this was a nothing move imo. Whether Stills stayed on for the rest of the season or not, he was gone after the season anyway..everyone knew it. So they didn’t get another day 3 pick for him, big deal. that pick was most likely gonna wind up a practice squader anyway.
but truthfully, the crying on this MB about draft picks & value is getting beyond unbearable at this point. If you paid even half attention to this team over the last 2 years, you knew the day was coming when BoB would be fired and we’d have to deal with the wreckage of what he created. I guess from my POV when that day came, I was already counting we were going to be down 1 year off the coaching change transition year. It takes about 2 years for a incoming HC to change things for a team to become a true contender. It can be shorter, but the team has to be well positioned, which rarely happens.
but truthfully, the crying on this MB about draft picks & value is getting beyond unbearable at this point. If you paid even half attention to this team over the last 2 years, you knew the day was coming when BoB would be fired and we’d have to deal with the wreckage of what he created. I guess from my POV when that day came, I was already counting we were going to be down 1 year off the coaching change transition year. It takes about 2 years for a incoming HC to change things for a team to become a true contender. It can be shorter, but the team has to be well positioned, which rarely happens.
A fair reply
Although I disagree with you about the value of late rd picks. You can package say a 5th and a 6th acquired in a trade to move up into the 4th rd and draft say a talented guy like Tyreke Hill. Or a DL like Reader.
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SnakeEyes
Under NRG
Interpret it how you want. But what you posted is not what I was talking about. Only how you decided to read and interpret it.First: Von Miller says hi.
Second: Eagles won a SB and it wasn't because they had Foles as their QB even if he won MVP and Manning was a name but his only job on the 2015 Broncos was to not turn the ball over and give the defense time to rest and he knew it. Can you even tell me who the QB was for the 2000 Ravens without looking it up? You are basing your statement on the last 20 years or so in the Brady/Belichick era where it has almost always been about the QB because the QB is/was the GOAT. Rodgers has always kept the Packers in the hunt but has only gotten a ring once and the biggest reason is because they never give him a team, Big Ben has won it three times but do the "Killer B's" ring any bells? (No pun intended).
Third: You want to talk Ravens and Joe Flacco ok I'll talk Ravens and Flacco with you.
Flacco came into the NFL as a stop gap QB or luxury backup except that he had two things going for him, the fact he actually was very good in bad weather conditions, something important in Baltimore seeing as it's an outdoor stadium in Maryland, and that he had a first time HC by the name of John William Harbaugh. Now the Harbaugh's are to football coaching what the Manning's are to QBs and he had a GM, Ozzie Newsome, that knew it. Newsome had been with the Ravens literally since they were in Cleveland and working with Belichick he knew the best way to win is to pick the right HC and then get them the team they want. Harbaugh knew the best way to win is to build a complete team and then custom design your scheme around that team.
Flacco was a decent QB but he was also a prime example of coaching matters because you see after the 2012 SB, and his big pay raise, Flacco started to believe his own hype and that started the downhill slide. He did have a pretty good arm but he couldn't read a D to save his life, Harbaugh could read a D. It also didn't hurt that in that SB Flacco was throwing to Bolden and Jones, had Ray Rice as a RB and on defense he had Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. If you want further proof look at how good the Ravens are doing with Jackson, a QB that is just Newton 2.0, and its because again Harbaugh rebuilt the team around Jackson. God if the Ravens had drafted Mahomes or Watson they would be the new football dynasty instead of KC.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I won’t deny that talent can be found in those later rounds and that those later picks can be used to move up into the higher rounds. but whether u stay put, or package picks together to move up, you still have to hit with the pick. and if the success rate on 1st rounders is say 40% (guess on my part) what do you think the success rate is on a 4th, 5th and 6th?
I say all that to say the amount and value of picks means dick if you don’t hit on them. yes I know it’s obvious, but the belly aching about not having the high picks or more picks this year is making the assumption that we’d hit & draft pro bowlers with them just b/c the chances are incrementally higher.
There are just too many sports organizations over the years that subscribed to that way of thinking and failed horribly.
Agreed
Good orgs hit orgs like K.C. hit on those picks at a fairly high rate. Look at their team and where a lot of those guys were drafted. Of course the Chiefs put winning 1st and dont have to abide by the Not Texans worthy rules, so you're probably right history shows they would blow the picks anyways so it really doesn't matter.
I guess I was thinking of how things could've been if the Texans org was a competently run org. We both know this isn't the case. (Just dreaming)
Foles got hot and carried that Eagles team in the playoffs/SN which he was awesome in.First: Von Miller says hi.
Second: Eagles won a SB and it wasn't because they had Foles as their QB even if he won MVP and Manning was a name but his only job on the 2015 Broncos was to not turn the ball over and give the defense time to rest and he knew it. Can you even tell me who the QB was for the 2000 Ravens without looking it up? You are basing your statement on the last 20 years or so in the Brady/Belichick era where it has almost always been about the QB because the QB is/was the GOAT. Rodgers has always kept the Packers in the hunt but has only gotten a ring once and the biggest reason is because they never give him a team, Big Ben has won it three times but do the "Killer B's" ring any bells? (No pun intended).
Third: You want to talk Ravens and Joe Flacco ok I'll talk Ravens and Flacco with you.
Flacco came into the NFL as a stop gap QB or luxury backup except that he had two things going for him, the fact he actually was very good in bad weather conditions, something important in Baltimore seeing as it's an outdoor stadium in Maryland, and that he had a first time HC by the name of John William Harbaugh. Now the Harbaugh's are to football coaching what the Manning's are to QBs and he had a GM, Ozzie Newsome, that knew it. Newsome had been with the Ravens literally since they were in Cleveland and working with Belichick he knew the best way to win is to pick the right HC and then get them the team they want. Harbaugh knew the best way to win is to build a complete team and then custom design your scheme around that team.
Flacco was a decent QB but he was also a prime example of coaching matters because you see after the 2012 SB, and his big pay raise, Flacco started to believe his own hype and that started the downhill slide. He did have a pretty good arm but he couldn't read a D to save his life, Harbaugh could read a D. It also didn't hurt that in that SB Flacco was throwing to Bolden and Jones, had Ray Rice as a RB and on defense he had Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. If you want further proof look at how good the Ravens are doing with Jackson, a QB that is just Newton 2.0, and its because again Harbaugh rebuilt the team around Jackson. God if the Ravens had drafted Mahomes or Watson they would be the new football dynasty instead of KC.
Flacco was acquired by Ozzie trading up into the middle of the 1st rd with the Texans of all teams. (Texans drafted DB/Slaton with those picks.) Flacco was considered the QB of the future for the Ravens from the time he was drafted. He began starting as a rookie.
I'm actually glad DW4's here.
That decision lead to 4-12 and that meant the end of RS incomptence. Little did I know the real incompetence was in Cal hiring another GM. That issue exists today and with the stellar committee thats been formed I expect to see that incompetence rear its ugly head well into the future. This is why I call this the lost decade. BTW, I wasn't the one comparing how Schaub was treated to how DW4's being treated. I just pointed out where TB was wrong in his thought pattern. Schab was treated like crap in Houston and DW4's treated with kid gloves and put on the hiring committee. Ever ask yourself why this is the way it is?
I have no idea how the OL will hold up against a stout defensive front. I don't expect any contributions from the running game. I have little to no expectations of the defense being able to stop Hilton. If they win, it will be because of coaching, DW4 and the players around him making plays on offense and defense.
When the Texans are favored in a game against an elite defense, we can pass judgement. However, based on the state of this roster, their current record and personnel, I don't have any expectations except to watch a football game and hopefully, I'm pleasantly surprise by the outcome.
Yes they do. By that I mean ownership.
For this the pain will be extended (The lost decade.)
The Texans operate things with marketing in mind, not the on the field product in mind.
Wow, so they're not the Houston Watson's in your eyes.
Too bad you didn't feel this way when they were beating up on the Jags/Lions.
I'm just glad to see you coming around some. Are you already setting up the narrative that if the Texans lose then it's the OL's fault. Are you with TB in that only 1% of what's wrong with the Texans is DW4?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
scripts not written yet though dude. As of now, the Texans have 8 total picks, 3 mid round, 5 late round. Hitting on any 3 of those picks.... combined with the development of 2 of either Blacklock, Greenard & Coulter, this team can be competitive next year & can be ready to contend in 2022. Legion of Boom secondary had 1 early round guy in it. The rest were either mid round guys or in the case of Browner, weren't even drafted. Defense as a whole didn't even have but like 2 early round guys in it. Thomas & Wagner. Bruce Irvin was a rookie, playing a limited role
Do you think the McNair's would even consider letting a GM draft the type of guys that made up the Legion of Boom? Exhibit 1 : Browner
For the record I wouldn't have a problem if the Texans drafted 2 CB's and a S with their 1st 3 picks.
Rd.3 Caden Stearns
Rd.4 Josh Jobe
Rd.4 Kendall Joseph
You aren't going to be able to fix all of the holes in this draft. So give me talented young S/CB's and fix one of the main things that are wrong with the Texans.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Foley’s did get hot but he was also surrounded but a very good team. We are seeing just how good because since then, and after that team was broken up, neither he nor Wentz has looked good since.
Flacco was the “QB of the future” almost by default because the only two QBs worth mentioning in that draft were Flacco and a Matt Ryan and neither were considered sure fire hits. Yes Houston traded the 18th pick to Baltimore but before that Baltimore traded the 8th pick to Jacksonville and even at 18 Flacco was still considered a reach. He began starting as a rookie for the same reason Watson did, because Ravens didn’t have a QB seeing as McNair retired in the off season.
Has this ever happened? A fire sale at the trade deadline?
The Jags sold off Ramsey at the deadline.
Even if it hasn't happened that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I’m mixed. I’d like to see something done from 1 of the interior o-line positions.
1st pick: Guard/Center BPA
2nd Pick:CB/ WILB BPA
3rd Pick: DE/OLB BPA
And Flacco was there for a decade.
Tb74 wasn't talking about the way the board or the miscreants who visited Schaub's home treated Schaub compared to the way they treat DW4.
He was talking about how you focused primarily on Rick Smith during that time. Then when Rick was gone it was all on DW4.
Personally I see no duplicity in the matter. Your ability to form educated conclusions is the same now as it was then.
If you want to get better right away, but not be a championship quality team. Then you migh want a draft that goes something like this.
3rd. Daniel Faalele OT Minnesota (Howard moved to OG
4th Tamorrion Terry WR FSU
4th Jimmy Morrisey C Pitt
5th Rhamondre Stevenson RB Oklahoma
Just build up a badazz offense and worry about fixing the defense in 2022.
This way DW4 can have no excuses for being successful and it would be a much more exciting team to watch.
So no? Only in Madden?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
He was but after 2012 he was buying his own hype and going down hill but still, with Harbaugh, he was good enough to keep the Ravens in limbo. To good to justify spending the draft capital to get a new QB but not good enough to take them all the way.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Exactly
There have been other teams that have made trades at the deadline, I just cant think of them off of the top of head.
I believe I've also focused on N.Martin's play this yr as an example. Hargreaves/Murray/Cunningham/Mercilus etc.... If what you are implying is true then you're truly blinded by me and I apologize for renting space in your head.
I noticed how you have somehow managed to somehow shift the debate from how Schaub was treated vs DW4 is treated to this BS.
Great job, houdini act at its best.