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Texans @ Chiefs AAR

austins23 said:
Exactly ! He runs those stupid condensed formations then splits em wide 2 x 2 and it’s so obvious the play that’s coming! When they are split wide like that it’s an impossible ask for the tackles to get out there that fast and block a defender that already knows what play is coming! It’s maddening!
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I remember at the end of the Kubiak yrs, people were making the same complaints. Offense was too predictable. Same with the BOB yrs, Kelly yrs.

The WCO is a very predictable offense. But just for the sake of conversation, what type of formations would you like to start seeing them use.
 
Speedy said:
but to say refs don't have an impact or don't influence a game is not a true statement. I don't know if the end result of that game yesterday would have been different, but I do know it's a completely different football game if it weren't for some of the bullshit calls and non-calls over the course of that game.
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I completely understand your frustration—when officiating feels inconsistent or one-sided, it’s incredibly hard not to question its impact on the game. The missed calls and questionable penalties you pointed out are definitely moments that could swing momentum, and it's fair to feel upset about them.

That said, I think it’s important to step back and recognize that, despite these challenges, teams still have the power to control their execution and discipline. Referees aren’t perfect, and while we’d like them to start every game with a completely unbiased perspective, human nature can make that difficult. But I don’t think this necessarily means they’re unfit to officiate at the NFL level.

I also believe games are rarely decided by officiating alone. Teams that execute well and avoid putting themselves in situations where flags are more likely to be thrown usually find ways to win despite questionable calls. It’s not about excusing poor officiating but rather acknowledging that there are usually multiple factors at play.

At the end of the day, we’re all fans who want to see fair, competitive games, so I definitely respect where you’re coming from, even if we see this a little differently.
 
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steelbtexan said:
I remember at the end of the Kubiak yrs, people were making the same complaints. Offense was too predictable. Same with the BOB yrs, Kelly yrs.

The WCO is a very predictable offense.
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Part of that is by design. All the plays are supposed to look the same. The success comes with REPS. Well executed reps and getting in sync with players and coaches.

Part of why I suspect these WCOs aren’t as successful this year is the NFLPA taking away more opportunities for quality reps each CBA. Making a more sloppy on-field product.

And defenses getting plenty of opportunities to gameplan for it with so many coaches having been hired off the Mcvay/Lil Shanny tree in recent years.
 
steelbtexan said:
I remember at the end of the Kubiak yrs, people were making the same complaints. Offense was too predictable. Same with the BOB yrs, Kelly yrs.

The WCO is a very predictable offense. But just for the sake of conversation, what type of formations would you like to start seeing them use.
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When is the last time slowick attacked the middle of the field?
Attacked the LBers with quick slants over the middle?
I’d like to see more FB. I know he was involved a bit yesterday.
Kubiak was a master at scheming guys open! I mean geez guys like Walter and OD were wide ass open a lot!
This team needs a TE that is a game changer.
As far as the WCO being predictable…. It is when this coach doesn’t do anything different. He never has any tendency busters. It’s all the same.
 
Speedy said:
Realistically it shouldn't be an issue at all. Maybe if you're some Pee Wee ref or something but NFL refs are supposed to be the best there is. If these guys aren't starting each game with a clean slate and are holding players/teams accountable for something in past games, then they don't need to be refs. PERIOD!!

Amazing all the bullshit penalties on the Texans when something went wrong for KC. The bullshit holding on Stingley when princess Pat got sacked. The phantom OPI on Dell. The non-call DPI against Dell. The too many to count holding by the Chiefs OL that didn't get called including the hold by Taylor on the scoop and score for the Texans that was called an incomplete pass and eventually roughing the passer. And even if you're on the "yeah, he hit him in the facemask" side, it still should have been offsetting penalties. Freaking ridiculous and it's exactly why these conspiracy theories (right or wrong) are so prevalent. THE CHIEFS HAD 2 FUCKING PENALTIES CALLED ON THEM THE ENTIRE DAY!! That's total horseshit!!

We keep saying so and so team didn't lose because of the refs, and 99% of the time I'm on board with that, but to say refs don't have an impact or don't influence a game is not a true statement. I don't know if the end result of that game yesterday would have been different, but I do know it's a completely different football game if it weren't for some of the bullshit calls and non-calls over the course of that game.
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They have the most long drives for a reason. No penalties called on them, and when anything really bad happens, whena 3rd down conversion fails, hold on defense. Simple formula. I don't blame the chiefs, they know they are going to get gifts, so good strategy
 
banned1976 said:
That's not what I wrote, or it certainly wasn't my intention for my words to be interpreted that way.

I completely understand your frustration—when officiating feels inconsistent or one-sided, it’s incredibly hard not to question its impact on the game. The missed calls and questionable penalties you pointed out are definitely moments that could swing momentum, and it's fair to feel upset about them.

That said, I think it’s important to step back and recognize that, despite these challenges, teams still have the power to control their execution and discipline. Referees aren’t perfect, and while we’d like them to start every game with a completely unbiased perspective, human nature can make that difficult. But I don’t think this necessarily means they’re unfit to officiate at the NFL level.

I also believe games are rarely decided by officiating alone. Teams that execute well and avoid putting themselves in situations where flags are more likely to be thrown usually find ways to win despite questionable calls. It’s not about excusing poor officiating but rather acknowledging that there are usually multiple factors at play.

At the end of the day, we’re all fans who want to see fair, competitive games, so I definitely respect where you’re coming from, even if we see this a little differently.
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It is hard to pressure Pat when guys can put their arms around your neck and clamp down
 
austins23 said:
When is the last time slowick attacked the middle of the field?
Attacked the LBers with quick slants over the middle?
I’d like to see more FB. I know he was involved a bit yesterday.
Kubiak was a master at scheming guys open! I mean geez guys like Walter and OD were wide ass open a lot!
This team needs a TE that is a game changer.
As far as the WCO being predictable…. It is when this coach doesn’t do anything different. He never has any tendency busters. It’s all the same.
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Stroud threw an int on an over route yesterday. He threw to Dell in the middle of the field yesterday too. Agreed about the TE position. It's why I hope Warren falls to the Texans in the 1st rd.

Posters were complaining about Kubiak's version of the WCO being predictable. It was predictable. What I wonder is why didn't Kubiak take as much heat as the rest of the HC's/OC's? His offense was scoring less than the other HC/OC's offenses at the end of Kubiak's run here.
 
banned1976 said:
I completely understand your frustration—when officiating feels inconsistent or one-sided, it’s incredibly hard not to question its impact on the game. The missed calls and questionable penalties you pointed out are definitely moments that could swing momentum, and it's fair to feel upset about them.

That said, I think it’s important to step back and recognize that, despite these challenges, teams still have the power to control their execution and discipline. Referees aren’t perfect, and while we’d like them to start every game with a completely unbiased perspective, human nature can make that difficult. But I don’t think this necessarily means they’re unfit to officiate at the NFL level.

I also believe games are rarely decided by officiating alone. Teams that execute well and avoid putting themselves in situations where flags are more likely to be thrown usually find ways to win despite questionable calls. It’s not about excusing poor officiating but rather acknowledging that there are usually multiple factors at play.

At the end of the day, we’re all fans who want to see fair, competitive games, so I definitely respect where you’re coming from, even if we see this a little differently.
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Like I said, I'm 99% in not saying you win or lose because of the refs. But whether it's simply human error or whatever, there is impact by the refs calls and non-calls and timing of them. The defense does it job to get off the field but the drive gets extended on a questionable holding call. Then that team goes on to score a TD. At most that's a 14 point swing. Sure, the D could have made another play or 2 to stop them again, and you can blame whoever that they had a blown coverage on that extra play, but it shouldn't have come to that.

And I understand that happens all over week in and week out, but when there's blatant calls that don't get made or very questionable calls that do, and it's one-sided, that creates suspicion that's worthy of a conversation at the very least.
 
steelbtexan said:
Care to show/tell us about these route trees?

This is what I hate about these twitter scouts. They can take 4-5 plays where the DC calls a play that stops what a OC is trying to do and make it seem like things are a lot worse than they are. With this said, until Hutch proves he can block for a screen pass that play should never be run again. I thought blocking was supposed to be a strength of Hutch's. LMAO, dude is avg at best and some posters are wanting to give him more playing time and think he's a suitable replacement for Tank.
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Isn't that a great example of the 2024 offensive struggles? How many times do you have to see Hutch prove he cannot block on that screen pass before you don't call it? How many times do you see Schultz trying to block a DE before you stop putting him at FB or on an island with a DE? How many times do you see Mason is not fast enough to be a pulling OG before you stop calling plays requiring him to pull?

The majority of posters recognize that Kenyon Green was imitating a turnstile. It took an injury to get him off the field. My concern is the offensive staff keeps doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
 
austins23 said:
When is the last time slowick attacked the middle of the field?
Attacked the LBers with quick slants over the middle?
I’d like to see more FB. I know he was involved a bit yesterday.
Kubiak was a master at scheming guys open! I mean geez guys like Walter and OD were wide ass open a lot!
This team needs a TE that is a game changer.
As far as the WCO being predictable…. It is when this coach doesn’t do anything different. He never has any tendency busters. It’s all the same.
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Same here. I don't know if Beck is a great blocking FB, but he has to be a better blocker than Schultz and Stover. Hell, I wouldn't even mind seeing Pierce and Mixon in the backfield at the same time. Every time I see Schultz line up at FB, I cringe because I know he will clog the running lanes.
 
austins23 said:
Take that TD away from the Chiefs that was gifted to them, it’s a 1 point game. Texans play it differently.
Even after the phantom “roughing” call, the defensive holding call was garbage.

Like you said, they could call it on any team at any time. How convenient that they call two drive extending penalties , one of them took 6 points away from the Texans, and the holding (bs as well) penalty on third down…
It’s garbage and you know it.

They didn’t get out coached. They got out reffed
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I'm not going to blame the loss solely on the referees because that is ridiculous. This team didn't execute when they needed to. Dropped passes, making the wrong decision in the heat of the moment (Nico ran inside on the screen w/ Hutch, Mixon cut back inside when he could have gone outside for a big gain), injuries to key positions, and even some of the play calling contributed to this loss. Slowik was ok, no play caller is going to get every call correct. He should use that WR screen no more than one time a game, if at all (will discuss below).

Having said that, it's impossible that the refs calls didn't seriously change the season for the Texans. Whether it's sheer ineptitude (or intentionally fixing the game) the result is the same. The Mahomes fumble turned incompletion with the roughing call, changed the complexion of the season. Would our team be calling a deep shot play that injured Tank if the Texans were leading? I don't think so. Again, hindsight is always 20/20. Just "funny" how these little things that happen in games potentially change the course of the season for some teams.

austins23 said:
View attachment 14997
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I think a major point of frustration with the play calling is stuff like this. If the Texans stayed on schedule and just tried to make sure they even got 2-3 positive yards every series, they wouldn't have to rely on CJ's improv on 3rd downs. Inexcusable to me, but maybe Slowik doesn't understand the WCO the way that Shanny and Kubes did? Kubes could scheme guys open because he is a master of that offense. I don't think that the disciples of Shanny/Kubes are there yet (and may never get there). It's the reason that the Vikings were able to destroy us on offense, because that ability to make in game adjustments just isn't there. It should be noted that part of the failure of these plays not working is poor execution by the players. Ultimately, this falls on Slowik because if he doesn't know that his personnel can't execute it, they shouldn't be running it.

PS - I still think these plays are keeping DCs up at night. 😉
 
Earl34 said:
Same here. I don't know if Beck is a great blocking FB, but he has to be a better blocker than Schultz and Stover. Hell, I wouldn't even mind seeing Pierce and Mixon in the backfield at the same time. Every time I see Schultz line up at FB, I cringe because I know he will clog the running lanes.
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I think a big part of this is the Texans are semi-delusional in regards to their offensive evaluation. They want to be a run-first team, but then try to have Schultz block DEs and we know his blocking is ****. He's not here for that. You can use him to chip a blocker in tandem with someone else, but he's there to drop passes, I mean, catch passes.

You want to be a running team? Put Beck in. Put 2 backs in the back field. But don't keep trying the same BS and think it's going to work. Alternatively, if you want to pass more, spread them out and find mismatches and get rid of the ball quick. One of the other posters here talked about quick slants to attack the middle of the field and the LBs--Great idea. I never see them do this.

I would love to know who is evaluating the talent on offense. Shaq Mason has been a stiff all year and he goes down and Kendrick Green did a slightly better job than Mason. I didn't see free runners to CJ coming from that side like I've seen just about every game this year. As much as I have to give Caserio his due when it comes to his drafting and his defensive FA pickups, I got to crush him on his non-skill player offensive evaluations.
 
Speedy said:
And I understand that happens all over week in and week out, but when there's blatant calls that don't get made or very questionable calls that do, and it's one-sided, that creates suspicion that's worthy of a conversation at the very least.
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To add to your sentence -

It happens consistently week after week with opposing teams.
 
steelbtexan said:
Stroud threw an int on an over route yesterday. He threw to Dell in the middle of the field yesterday too. Agreed about the TE position. It's why I hope Warren falls to the Texans in the 1st rd.

Posters were complaining about Kubiak's version of the WCO being predictable. It was predictable. What I wonder is why didn't Kubiak take as much heat as the rest of the HC's/OC's? His offense was scoring less than the other HC/OC's offenses at the end of Kubiak's run here.
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I remember we all gave Kubes the business for turtleing and sittin on the lead and making games too close for comfort
 
steelbtexan said:
I remember at the end of the Kubiak yrs, people were making the same complaints. Offense was too predictable. Same with the BOB yrs, Kelly yrs.

The WCO is a very predictable offense. But just for the sake of conversation, what type of formations would you like to start seeing them use.
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West coast offense/ running a passing game from empty mixed with a man power scheme. The same offense Rodgers ran from 2007-2011. Joe Philbin as offensive coordinator (2007–2011), the Packers' offense ranked in the top 10 of the NFL for points scored and total yards each season, including their 2010 Super Bowl-winning season
 
TheRealJoker V2 said:
Part of that is by design. All the plays are supposed to look the same. The success comes with REPS. Well executed reps and getting in sync with players and coaches.

Part of why I suspect these WCOs aren’t as successful this year is the NFLPA taking away more opportunities for quality reps each CBA. Making a more sloppy on-field product.

And defenses getting plenty of opportunities to gameplan for it with so many coaches having been hired off the Mcvay/Lil Shanny tree in recent years.
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We were executing on that wide receiver screen with Nico earlier this season before the injury. My thing is why want you mix it up a bit. Brother we were calling out that play by looking at the formation on yesterday at the Christmas party I hosted at the house. The Texans telegraphs that play along with several others.
 
steelbtexan said:
Maybe they hire Philbin in an Alex Gibbs role. OL/Run game coordinator.
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That might create another problem. Rodgers, Joe Philbin, Jon Gruden and even Mike McCarthy were running the Bill Walsh WCO. Even Andy Reid was running the WCO but with Mahomes, he implemented more spread concepts into the WCO and it's a hybrid and not the pure WCO that those guys ran. In fact, Reid basically merged the Texas Tech offense that Mahomes ran in college into his version of the WCO. Reid does not get enough credit for how flexible he has been in taking the structured WCO and adapting it to Mahomes' skillset.

On the other hand. Kyle Shanahan is on record that his dad didn't run the WCO and wasn't part of the Bill Walsh tree. Remember, Kyle Shanahan, Mike McDaniel, Matt LaFleur, and Sean McVay all learned from Mike Shanahan, Kubiak or both. They basically grew up in this offense and seem to be able to adapt and make on the fly adjustments quicker than some of their proteges. Chris Simms said the Texans are running the basic version of this offense.

So, now that defenses had an offseason to scout the Texans version. It's now up to Slowik, Stroud and even DeMeco to make the adjustments. Is Slowik simply a copycat or an innovator? Is he able to tailor the offense to his personnel? Will he be able to make quick in-game adjustments that are based on the ebbs and flows of the game? I think the jury is still out.

Robert Saleh was also on those Kubiak and Shanahan staffs. He hired Mike Lafleur as the Jets OC and after two years, he had to fire a friend he had known for over twenty years. I guess he found out that Mike was not Matt. Hopefully, Slowik can figure it out or DeMeco is going to have to make a similar decision.

Here is a good article on Kyle Shanahan and having to make adjustments:

Kyle Shanahan explains how he'll reinvent 49ers offense in offseason
 
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Speedy said:
Wouldn’t need to know how the defense sets up every play if you had route trees with actual branches on it taking advantage of the entire field rather than a tree that looks like a walking stick having entire sections of field empty or routes running into each other.
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We've seen them all (X, Y, Z, & the RB) occupy that space ar one time or another so we know it's there. The receiver must have decided not to. Maybe it was a business de ision.
 
austins23 said:
Exactly ! He runs those stupid condensed formations then splits em wide 2 x 2 and it’s so obvious the play that’s coming! When they are split wide like that it’s an impossible ask for the tackles to get out there that fast and block a defender that already knows what play is coming! It’s maddening!
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Are the Tackles the only ones on this team who can block?

I hate the play with a passion, but the Texans have been pretty productive with it when Nico is healthy. I wouldn't have called it 4 times, but it seems the team is only comfortable with a handful of plays.
 
austins23 said:
This team needs a TE that is a game changer.
As far as the WCO being predictable…. It is when this coach doesn’t do anything different. He never has any tendency busters. It’s all the same.
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With everything that happened yesterday the Texans still had an opportunity to win the game. Better play calling, better execution, better blocking, DBs & LBs putting in time with the Juggs machine, this team can still go a long way.
 
thunderkyss said:
With everything that happened yesterday the Texans still had an opportunity to win the game. Better play calling, better execution, better blocking, DBs & LBs putting in time with the Juggs machine, this team can still go a long way.
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Even if all this happens, nothing changes if the OC can’t make changes
 
Harris is back to playing full time snaps. Texans opted tor Okudah with Jimmie Ward out. Not a coincidence that Samaje Perine had 3 receptions for 50 yards all after Ward left. Lots of miscommunication defending the short passing game without both Ward and Pitre in the nickel.


texanswire.usatoday.com

Chiefs-Texans Week 16: Offense, defense and special teams snap counts

The Houston Texans fell short of securing a 10-win season on Saturday against the Kansas City Chiefs on the road.
texanswire.usatoday.com texanswire.usatoday.com
 
from the link above:
The Texans lost receiver Tank Dell on Saturday, to a dislocated knee. On Sunday, coach DeMeco Ryans was asked whether the team will be adding another receiver.

“A little early right now for me when it comes to that,” Ryans told reporters. “But we’re always exploring everything we have to do to improve our team.”

A little early to be asking that question and a little baiting involved
 
badboy said:
Check the grade for the offensive line..

sports.yahoo.com

Texans Report Card: Grading Week 16 loss against Chiefs

The Houston Texans took a shot at the champ and left after a kick in the backside. The Kansas City Chiefs dominated
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com

The Houston Texans took a shot at the champ and left after a kick in the backside. The Kansas City Chiefs dominated
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Agree with the assessment except with the “Patrick Mahomes, who was on a bum ankle” obviously that wasn’t the case
 
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