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Texans and Godsey Mutually Part Ways

DocBar

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Chad O'Shea has been NE's WR coach since 2009. O'Brien has had at least 2 in 3 years. Dante Scarnecchia has been their o-line coach for 16 seasons. How many has O'Brien had? Joe Judge has been NE's ST's assistant coach and now coach for 4 years. O'Brien? Josh Boyer, defensive backs coach has been with Belichick for 8 years, the last 5 in his current position. Ivan Fears, RB coach for the Pats for the last 15. He's been with them for 20 years.

One of the reasons the Patriots are so good is because they have stability throughout their organization. The Texans, under O'Brien do not.
You're only mentioning one team, which happens to be one of, if not the, greatest dynasty in NFL history.

OB is in his 3rd year as HC. He's said that he's going to evaluate every aspect of the team every offseason and make changes that he deems appropriate. I think he'll settle on his position coaches when he gets the production he wants from said position. I wouldn't be surprised at a few more changes this offseason.
 

steelbtexan

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I wasn't clear, let me rephrase. Why would you want Oz as backup to Savage? Particularly, if you do have the authority, and the OK of the front office, to release him? What I'm asking, taking the finances out of it, how many think OB would still chose to keep Oz on the roster?
No chance at all.

I wonder what happens when Savage out performs Os again in next yrs TC/preseason? That will tell you if BOB has final say over who plays andwho doesn't. This yr Savage performed better than Os I TC/Preseason, yet Os was named the starter. That tells you Ricky McNair carried the big stick. We will see what weight little Ricky carries this yr and whether BOB tells little Ricky to go screw himself in order to get out of his contract? This org could become toxic before the regular season even begins.
 

Double Barrel

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According to McClain's reporting of the events that led to signing Brock, it was O'Brien who finger ed Brock.



Rick bought in


& McNair ponies up the mulah
tbh, I don't really care who was behind the Brock signing. I still don't have a problem with the team taking a leap of faith and trying to bring a QB in here to fix the obvious problem.

Where I do find a problem is potentially what they plan on doing with the guy now that they know he sucks. And sucking in fundamental ways that might not be fixable.

So now what happens? This is really where we can get a glimpse of this organization's mentality, regardless of who has what power....what does this franchise do with an obvious albatross around its neck.
 

steelbtexan

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tbh, I don't really care who was behind the Brock signing. I still don't have a problem with the team taking a leap of faith and trying to bring a QB in here to fix the obvious problem.

Where I do find a problem is potentially what they plan on doing with the guy now that they know he sucks. And sucking in fundamental ways that might not be fixable.

So now what happens? This is really where we can get a glimpse of this organization's mentality, regardless of who has what power....what does this franchise do with an obvious albatross around its neck.
If Brock gets outplayed in TC/preseason by Savage we will have our answer to what's most important to Bob/Cal/Ricky.
 

Double Barrel

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If Brock gets outplayed in TC/preseason by Savage we will have our answer to what's most important to Bob/Cal/Ricky.
Yep. We've now seen a small glimpse of what Savage can do...when healthy...so TC/preseason is going to be very interesting in a variety of ways. Just have to wait...6....long....months....ugh...
 
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steelbtexan

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Savage got concussed and Os got starter reps. I was surprised when OB didn't yank Os in the 2nd half of the NE game.
He was healthy for the NE game and it's not like Os tore it up in the Tacks/Oak games.

Something changed.
 

DocBar

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He was healthy for the NE game and it's not like Os tore it up in the Tacks/Oak games.

Something changed.
Os didn't look completely inept in week 17 and defeated the Raiders and looked almost average. Going for a little continuity? I wasn't as surprised by the starting QB as I was the starting QB not getting yanked after poor play in the 2nd half of a winnable game against a superior opponent.
 

thunderkyss

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You may be right.

But you know how crazy that sounds that just this one game - this one time - we will sit Brock and start Savage this game.

Would Brock have sat out the rest of the season or came back in Tennessee?

I don't know but that is some pretty crazy decision making. Unless Bill is a Psychology major and is out thinking Brock and playing mind games. I know Coaches have sat QBs before when they have had a bad day, (I.e.Moon) but man I just don't know about OB to give him that much credit.
I think had Savage not got hurt he would have finished the game against the Titans & been our starter until he couldn't.
 

Number19

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If egoes are involved, he may stay. But if it is a business decision, a fundamental rule is, if you make a mistake, cut your loses. If a coaching decision, I think it leans toward releasing him.

So I'm hoping for a June 1st cut.
 

steelbtexan

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I agree, there is a lot of turnover in the NFL. But you can't deny the reason there's turnover in O'Brien's staff is because he hired the wrong people. It's not like Ligashesky went on to bigger and better things. He's now a college ST's coordinator and TE's coach on a crappy team.
Ligashesky was a holdover from the Kubiak regime.

When filling out his staff it appears the ST spot took on a lower priority for BOB. Not that I agree with this philosophy. I liked the Izzo hire, makes me wonder if the ST's issues have more to do with lack of talent/depth than it does coaching. I mean they are on their 3rd ST's coach in 3 yrs, so it might not be on coaching after all. Who could be at fault for the lack of talent on ST's? They signed the 2nd best punter I've seen in my lifetime. (Guy was #1) and the ST's still aren't even avg.
 

thunderkyss

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BOB did start Savage against the Tacks.

It's not like Os tore up the Tacks or the Raiders, why didn't BOB go back to the QB that he said gave him the best chance to win 2 weeks before? What changed? It certainly wasn't Os great QB play.
I don't know. I think he didn't see a difference between the two.

He may very well thought Savage gave us a better chance to win. Then after seeing him in a real game, realized it wasn't better enough to stick him back in.

I noticed O'b has been pretty consistent acknowledging that Osweiler does a good job getting us into the right play. He criticized Savage for not getting out of the huddle fast enough.
 

steelbtexan

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Os didn't look completely inept in week 17 and defeated the Raiders and looked almost average. Going for a little continuity? I wasn't as surprised by the starting QB as I was the starting QB not getting yanked after poor play in the 2nd half of a winnable game against a superior opponent.
I know you disagree with is but here goes,

BOB was told who to play, hence the rumors that came out before the playoffs started.
 

Number19

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I don't know. I think he didn't see a difference between the two.

He may very well thought Savage gave us a better chance to win. Then after seeing him in a real game, realized it wasn't better enough to stick him back in.

I noticed O'b has been pretty consistent acknowledging that Osweiler does a good job getting us into the right play. He criticized Savage for not getting out of the huddle fast enough.
But did you listen to the Mon morning presser? How do you explain, or what do you think of, the negative tone of his comments on Oz? Or am I hearing something that wasn't there?
 

DocBar

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I don't know. I think he didn't see a difference between the two.

He may very well thought Savage gave us a better chance to win. Then after seeing him in a real game, realized it wasn't better enough to stick him back in.

I noticed O'b has been pretty consistent acknowledging that Osweiler does a good job getting us into the right play. He criticized Savage for not getting out of the huddle fast enough.
If OB couldn't see a difference between the two then he should be fired. The difference was that stark.
I thought the criticism about getting in and out of the huddle faster was a bit petty. I'm not sure of the reason for it and petty is the only thing I think of it.
 

thunderkyss

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No chance at all.

I wonder what happens when Savage out performs Os again in next yrs TC/preseason? That will tell you if BOB has final say over who plays andwho doesn't. This yr Savage performed better than Os I TC/Preseason, yet Os was named the starter. That tells you Ricky McNair carried the big stick. We will see what weight little Ricky carries this yr and whether BOB tells little Ricky to go screw himself in order to get out of his contract? This org could become toxic before the regular season even begins.
I don't think it meant that at all. Of course Savage was going to outperform Brock in TC. He had a two year headstart.

This wasn't a Russell Wilson/Matt Flynn situation where they were both starting from scratch & Wilson was blowing their minds on the field & the classroom.

Savage hadn't played in a regular season football game in over a year & even then, it's not like he was blowing minds.

I have nothing against Savage. I wanted to start Savage & Weeden then groom Connor Cook. But they identified Osweiler as their guy.

Savage is/was in the "have to take advantage of any opportunity he might get protocol & he didn't.
 

DocBar

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I know you disagree with is but here goes,

BOB was told who to play, hence the rumors that came out before the playoffs started.
There's not a shred of verifiable evidence to support that. It very well could be true, but every shred of evidence says that OB has final say on who plays. I live in a world of alpha personalities and huge egos. I would either step down (done that before) or demanded, in writing, that my decision was overridden by a superior (done that many times and my decision was the one we went with). Of course, there are orders of magnitude differences between my career and OB's. He screws up he loses millions. I screw up, my company loses millions and people may die or be injured. I deserve more money, dammit.
 

steelbtexan

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I don't think it meant that at all. Of course Savage was going to outperform Brock in TC. He had a two year headstart.

This wasn't a Russell Wilson/Matt Flynn situation where they were both starting from scratch & Wilson was blowing their minds on the field & the classroom.

Savage hadn't played in a regular season football game in over a year & even then, it's not like he was blowing minds.

I have nothing against Savage. I wanted to start Savage & Weeden then groom Connor Cook. But they identified Osweiler as their guy.

Savage is/was in the "have to take advantage of any opportunity he might get protocol & he didn't.
There was no way Savage was going to start over Os at the beginning of last season, regardless of what Savage did. Os got paid and he was going to play. It's the McNair way.
 
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steelbtexan

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There's not a shred of verifiable evidence to support that. It very well could be true, but every shred of evidence says that OB has final say on who plays. I live in a world of alpha personalities and huge egos. I would either step down (done that before) or demanded, in writing, that my decision was overridden by a superior (done that many times and my decision was the one we went with). Of course, there are orders of magnitude differences between my career and OB's. He screws up he loses millions. I screw up, my company loses millions and people may die or be injured. I deserve more money, dammit.
Who loses those millions makes all of the difference in the world. I cant wait to see what happens next yr when BOB's job will obviously be on the line.
 

thunderkyss

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But did you listen to the Mon morning presser? How do you explain, or what do you think of, the negative tone of his comments on Oz? Or am I hearing something that wasn't there?
I didn't hear it. Seemed like he wanted to stay away from that topic all together. When he talked about how he loves coaching our players, he named dang near the whole defense including bottom of the roster guys like Nelson. I only remember him naming Duane Brown, maybe Fiedorowicz. He did give Mancz & Clark a little love later on.

After I heard we "parted ways" with Godsey I figured he was trying not to bad mouth his friend.
 

DocBar

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I think it's pretty much the NFL way. You spend that much on a QB, he's going to play.
I see things differently. Baseball is a marathon. Hockey and basketball are cross-country races. Football is a sprint. One baseball season is the equivalent of 10 football seasons. You have to win now in the NFL.
 

Number19

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If OB's job is going to be on the line, you pretty much have to give him total control. And we're talking QB.
 

steelbtexan

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I didn't hear it. Seemed like he wanted to stay away from that topic all together. When he talked about how he loves coaching our players, he named dang near the whole defense including bottom of the roster guys like Nelson. I only remember him naming Duane Brown, maybe Fiedorowicz. He did give Mancz & Clark a little love later on.

After I heard we "parted ways" with Godsey I figured he was trying not to bad mouth his friend.
It could be a case of when you don't have something good to say about somebody you don't say anything at all. IMHO Not saying Os was going to be the starting QB next yr says it all.
 

DocBar

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If OB's job is going to be on the line, you pretty much have to give him total control. And we're talking QB.
If my job were on the line and, contractually I had the say, there wouldn't be a question or I wouldn't have a job. Gotta stand on your hind legs for the big decisions.
 

steelbtexan

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I think the specter of week one 2015 really affected OB and he's basing a lot of his decisions off of that. I think it polarized the team as a whole and OB is aware of that. I also think that's why he pulled the plug on Os.
Quite possibly true.

So BOB isn't as hard headed as some on this MB make him out to be.
 

thunderkyss

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If OB couldn't see a difference between the two then he should be fired. The difference was that stark.
I thought the criticism about getting in and out of the huddle faster was a bit petty. I'm not sure of the reason for it and petty is the only thing I think of it.
The difference was miniscule. I know people want to believe it was a stark difference, but considering the opponent & situation... not really.

Everything we saw from Savage we saw at times from Osweiler.
 
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steelbtexan

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So BOB isn't as hard headed as some on this MB make him out to be.
If my job were on the line and, contractually I had the say, there wouldn't be a question or I wouldn't have a job. Gotta stand on your hind legs for the big decisions.
I think you see this, this yr.

His job is on the line and he's going to do what he thinks is best. Ricky McNair be damned.
 

Number19

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Yes, OB was very positive in his remarks on several other player. His not wanting to remark on Oz set a very negative tone for this topic when compared to his other comments.
 

thunderkyss

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There was no way Savage was going to start over Os at the beginning of last season, regardless of what Savage did. Os got paid and he was going to play. It's the McNair way.
He got paid because they thought he was a better prospect.

They never would have signed Brock if they felt Savage could be a franchise QB.
 
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DocBar

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So BOB isn't as hard headed as some on this MB make him out to be.


I think you see this, this yr.

His job is on the line and he's going to do what he thinks is best. Ricky McNair be damned.
I hope I too. I also hope to see OB succeed, but I'm willing to accept a coaching change if he fails.
 

DocBar

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The difference was miniscule. I know people want to believe it was a stark difference, but considering the opponent & situation... not really.

Everything we saw from Savage we saw at times from Osweiler.
Really? I saw much better mechanics, better decision making and a better feeling in the pocket. Maybe we should both rewatch the game.
 

thunderkyss

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So BOB isn't as hard headed as some on this MB make him out to be.


I think you see this, this yr.

His job is on the line and he's going to do what he thinks is best. Ricky McNair be damned.
I'm not getting this. A couple of weeks ago he was prepared to walk. Now, he "needs" this job? Something don't jive.
 

DocBar

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Quite possibly true.

So BOB isn't as hard headed as some on this MB make him out to be.
I think OB is a 3rd yr HC still trying to find his exact formula for winning. I see (hoping and praying) Bill Belichick in his last year with Cleveland. Cleveland lost faith in him and New England took a chance on him. I like OB as a HC. I think he gets the best out of his players that they have. The players seem to love him. I strongly dislike change for the sake of change. Just like that "draft a QB in the 1st round" drivel. You don't just pick "a guy". You pick a specific player who has attributes that you think qualify him for the selection.
 

steelbtexan

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I'm not getting this. A couple of weeks ago he was prepared to walk. Now, he "needs" this job? Something don't jive.
Did he walk?

Very few people will leave 10 mil on the table based on principles. I doubt you/I are those people either.
 

steelbtexan

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I think OB is a 3rd yr HC still trying to find his exact formula for winning. I see (hoping and praying) Bill Belichick in his last year with Cleveland. Cleveland lost faith in him and New England took a chance on him. I like OB as a HC. I think he gets the best out of his players that they have. The players seem to love him. I strongly dislike change for the sake of change. Just like that "draft a QB in the 1st round" drivel. You don't just pick "a guy". You pick a specific player who has attributes that you think qualify him for the selection.
You've been very consistent with this philosophy. We disagreed many times since 2010. I'm glad to see you applying the same standards to BOB that you did to Kubiak. Unlike many on this MB.
 

thunderkyss

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Really? I saw much better mechanics, better decision making and a better feeling in the pocket. Maybe we should both rewatch the game.
Eh... we'll see what we want to see.

Osweiler's mechanics weren't different than they were in Denver. I think O'b picked Osweiler so I don't believe O'b has an issue with Brock's mechanics.

Feel in the pocket, decision making... we're talking about a small sample size with Savage. Brock looked fine in Denver & again later in the season.

He looked really good in New England imo.
 

Speedy

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Brock does have the arm strength to complete the down field passes, it's his accuracy, and other factors that make him ineffective down field. Namely locking in on the WR and not recognizing defensive zones.
Including that long, slow windup.

I had the opposite take. IMO, OB left Os in the NE game so that he had the ammo he needed to not be forced to start Os if OB thought a different QB gave the Texans the best shot at winning.

I'm speaking only on the NE game.
And that worked out so well for him doing the same thing last season.

And not that I think it's true, but if OB sabotages a chance to win a playoff game just to prove a point, that's not the freaking coach I want.
 

DocBar

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Including that long, slow windup.



And that worked out so well for him doing the same thing last season.

And not that I think it's true, but if OB sabotages a chance to win a playoff game just to prove a point, that's not the freaking coach I want.
I see your point.
 

DocBar

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Eh... we'll see what we want to see.

Osweiler's mechanics weren't different than they were in Denver. I think O'b picked Osweiler so I don't believe O'b has an issue with Brock's mechanics.

Feel in the pocket, decision making... we're talking about a small sample size with Savage. Brock looked fine in Denver & again later in the season.

He looked really good in New England imo.
I THINK Kube's offense was more suited to OS, even though IS disagreed and signed with the Texans.
 

Number19

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Eh... we'll see what we want to see.

Osweiler's mechanics weren't different than they were in Denver. I think O'b picked Osweiler so I don't believe O'b has an issue with Brock's mechanics.

Feel in the pocket, decision making... we're talking about a small sample size with Savage. Brock looked fine in Denver & again later in the season.

He looked really good in New England imo.
I have to disagree with you about Oz's mechanics. What I couldn't understand is how OB could have overlooked this flaw in Oz's game. But if you hold this position, I guess OB could also and I have to write it off as a fundamental difference in what one looks for in a QB's game.

I only hope that I'm reading correctly between the tea leaves of OB's comments this past Mon and he's changed his earlier position on Oz.
 

thunderkyss

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Did he walk?

Very few people will leave 10 mil on the table based on principles. I doubt you/I are those people either.
So you were wrong about that narrative a couple weeks ago. Now you're changing your narrative.

Maybe you're wrong about other things as well.

The friction appears to have centered around Godsey, not Osweiler at all. O'b selected Osweiler & it was Smith & McNair that got on board.

Never made sense that O'b would want more personnel power when Smith basically gets him what he wants as best he can.
 

DocBar

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Doesn't change mechanics, feel, or decision making.
It definitely changes decision making and feel. Why would a 6'5" 239 lb Schaub take a sack where a 6'5" 240 lb Roth be almost impossible to sack? Coaches orders, imo.
 

steelbtexan

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So you were wrong about that narrative a couple weeks ago. Now you're changing your narrative.

Maybe you're wrong about other things as well.

The friction appears to have centered around Godsey, not Osweiler at all. O'b selected Osweiler & it was Smith & McNair that got on board.

Never made sense that O'b would want more personnel power when Smith basically gets him what he wants as best he can.
This centers around Os and always has. Os sucking and getting GG fired exacerbated the division between Ricky McNair and BOB. I've remained consistent on this. BOB wanted out, there's very little doubt in my mind. IMHO BOB doesn't like it but isn't about to turn down 10 mil.

That's what is going to make next season so interesting to me, is BOB going to start the QB that Ricky forced on him, or is he going to do what's best for his career/the team and start the QB of his choice? I'm betting on the latter since he already started Savage last yr.
 


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