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Texans and Godsey Mutually Part Ways

mussop

Hall of Fame
If he's cut June 1st he only counts 19 million next year and 6 million the following year. If he stays next year he counts 25 million for the year. He's gone.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
If he's cut June 1st he only counts 19 million next year and 6 million the following year. If he stays next year he counts 25 million for the year. He's gone.
This needs tweaking. I'm asking, if he's cut June 1st or later(?) he counts $19M in 2017 and $6M in 2018? If he remains on the roster for 2017, he counts $25M in 2017? If he's cut before June 1st, does he count $25M in 2017?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If he's cut June 1st he only counts 19 million next year and 6 million the following year. If he stays next year he counts 25 million for the year. He's gone.
It's $19M if he plays. $25M if cut.

$19M on 2017 cap & $6M on 2018 cap if designated a June 1st cut.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
For all the talk about McNair being all about the money, some of you guys have convinced yourself that he is going to pay the man the rest of his guaranteed money AND take a $19M cap hit this next season, inhibiting the ability to sign other players.

There is no way that he pays the money and doesn't get services rendered. There is no way he is taking a cap hit that large just to make a statement by cutting the guy.

Brock is on the roster next season. Brock is at worst in a competition with Savage, more than likely the favored going in because the organization knew they were vesting 2 years into him and are not willing to give up.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but some of you guys are hoping against the obvious handwriting on the wall.
 

texanhead08

All Pro
I think Brock is back next year, but I don't think he will be the starter all season. I think the leash will be much shorter than it was this year.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
For all the talk about McNair being all about the money, some of you guys have convinced yourself that he is going to pay the man the rest of his guaranteed money AND take a $19M cap hit this next season, inhibiting the ability to sign other players.

There is no way that he pays the money and doesn't get services rendered. There is no way he is taking a cap hit that large just to make a statement by cutting the guy.

Brock is on the roster next season. Brock is at worst in a competition with Savage, more than likely the favored going in because the organization knew they were vesting 2 years into him and are not willing to give up.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but some of you guys are hoping against the obvious handwriting on the wall.
Spoken or unspoken publicly, there is a mandate: fix the offense.

Now the debate here on this forum is : Is McNair and Smith dictating to OB who he plays at QB? This may have been partly true last year, we'll never know, but how likely will this be the case going into the 2017 season?

If OB has control over his QB and let's it be known to the front office that's he's had it with Oz and that it will be Savage and Weeden 1&2 going into training camp, the question then is : What do we do with Oz?

So it probably comes down to the question : What does OB think about Oz and does he want to bet next season on Oz improving? As OB said, once he returns from his short vacation, he'll be evaluating and making decisiions.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
Spoken or unspoken publicly, there is a mandate: fix the offense.

Now the debate here on this forum is : Is McNair and Smith dictating to OB who he plays at QB? This may have been partly true last year, we'll never know, but how likely will this be the case going into the 2017 season?

If OB has control over his QB and let's it be known to the front office that's he's had it with Oz and that it will be Savage and Weeden 1&2 going into training camp, the question then is : What do we do with Oz?

So it probably comes down to the question : What does OB think about Oz and does he want to bet next season on Oz improving? As OB said, once he returns from his short vacation, he'll be evaluating and making decisiions.
Don't disagree to anything that you said. Just stating that McNair wrote a check for $32M for two seasons worth of Brock. In my very humble opinion, Mr. McNair will be mighty passionate about giving Brock that second year to make it or break it. If that is McNair dictating who gets to play and who doesn't, then so be it. I'm under no illusion that O'Brien didn't realize going in that Brock was getting two years to prove his worth. To me this was settled when the contract was signed because of the way it was structured.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
It's $19M if he plays. $25M if cut.

$19M on 2017 cap & $6M on 2018 cap if designated a June 1st cut.
Per the June 1st cut, it's $19 million against the cap whether he stays or goes. The difference is that if cut, the Texans won't give Brock $16 million in salary.

Maybe cutting Osweiler isn't as unlikely as we thought?
 

Sigma

Veteran
Per the June 1st cut, it's $19 million against the cap whether he stays or goes. The difference is that if cut, the Texans won't give Brock $16 million in salary.

Maybe cutting Osweiler isn't as unlikely as we thought?
so you are saying that, if cut after june 1st, we have to pay him 19M this year and 6M next year

instead if we keep him we have to pay him 19M + 16M this year, and then 6M next year?

doesn't seem right
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
so you are saying that, if cut after june 1st, we have to pay him 19M this year and 6M next year

instead if we keep him we have to pay him 19M + 16M this year, and then 6M next year?

doesn't seem right
The $19M is broken down as $16M base salary and $3M signing bonus carried over from last year. Play, sit or trade, this is his paycheck for 2017. If cut, he's due an additional $6M. If cut June 1st, the $6M will will carried forward to 2018.

Hope I have this correct.
 

Sigma

Veteran
The $19M is broken down as $16M base salary and $3M signing bonus carried over from last year. Play, sit or trade, this is his paycheck for 2017. If cut, he's due an additional $6M. If cut June 1st, the $6M will will carried forward to 2018.

Hope I have this correct.
that's what I thought.

so the only difference between cutting him june 1st or at the end of next season, would be that cutting him june first we get an open spot in the roster.

honestly, I don't think they'll pay that much money just to cut him. I expect he will be the backup qb and savage the starter.

unless there is some big move to get a starter qb, in which case I expect savage to be traded as part of that "big move"

either way, Os is our backup next year

this is what I think will happen, not necessarily what I want to see happen (just to be clear)
 

paycheck71

Hall of Fame
No chance Brock is cut this offseason. Too expensive. We're stuck with him for another year, hopefully as a backup. After that he's either cut or gets his salary renegotiated to backup level. If he starts next season, that's another wasted year.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The $19M is broken down as $16M base salary and $3M signing bonus carried over from last year. Play, sit or trade, this is his paycheck for 2017. If cut, he's due an additional $6M. If cut June 1st, the $6M will will carried forward to 2018.

Hope I have this correct.
Close.

The $6M would be the prorated signing bonus he already has, just needs to be counted on the books.

Brock gets $16M this year whether he plays or not.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
OB and the team is doubling down on Brock. They are joined at the hip with success and failure.
I'm not so sure. During his Monday morning news conference, he made a comment that seemed to indicate that Weeden was still very much a part of the QB equation; and the tone of his words and voice was noticeably negative when Oz was discussed, as opposed to a noticeably positive tone when speaking of other players.

At best, I think Oz is in OB's dog house.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Then he's staying. Brock+Savage+Draft Pick (hopefully) next season.

I don't blame O'Brien for taking over the offense. It's his arse on the line. If he can't fix this, he shouldn't be here.
From an offensive coordinator position, you have to consider that Savage and Oz cannot execute the same playbook. Savage has the arm to take advantage of the speed we drafted last year. Oz averages less than 5 yds per completion. The game plan with Oz is built around short check down passes.

If OB has been given complete control over the QB's for this next season, I think Oz's future with the team is very much in question.

Oz's contract is already factored into the cap. If a June 1st cut, there is no additional cap hit, this year.

There is a mandate to improve the offense. Savage has shown a propensity for injury. Why would you go into the season with a backup QB you have limited confidence in?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Then he's staying. Brock+Savage+Draft Pick (hopefully) next season.
I'd rather Weeden. I'd hate to bench Brock, go to Savage, then have to go back to Brock due to injury.

If Brock even earns the starting gig to begin with.

Start Brock. But if you bench him, it's over. Start Weeden until the rookie is ready. We'll be able to pick up Savage if we need to at anytime during the season.
 

Brandon420tx

Flounder
From an offensive coordinator position, you have to consider that Savage and Oz cannot execute the same playbook. Savage has the arm to take advantage of the speed we drafted last year. Oz averages less than 5 yds per completion. The game plan with Oz is built around short check down passes.

If OB has been given complete control over the QB's for this next season, I think Oz's future with the team is very much in question.

Oz's contract is already factored into the cap. If a June 1st cut, there is no additional cap hit, this year.

There is a mandate to improve the offense. Savage has shown a propensity for injury. Why would you go into the season with a backup QB you have limited confidence in?
Brock does have the arm strength to complete the down field passes, it's his accuracy, and other factors that make him ineffective down field. Namely locking in on the WR and not recognizing defensive zones.

As for Savage, I also have limited confidence in his availability throughout a season.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Brock does have the arm strength to complete the down field passes, it's his accuracy, and other factors that make him ineffective down field. Namely locking in on the WR and not recognizing defensive zones.

As for Savage, I also have limited confidence in his availability throughout a season.
I don't disagree.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
Savage has shown a propensity for injury. Why would you go into the season with a backup QB you have limited confidence in?
If Godsey hadn't called that ridiculous QB sneak in the Titan game, Savage would have been the QB throughout the playoffs. He'll win this job in the offseason.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
If Godsey hadn't called that ridiculous QB sneak in the Titan game, Savage would have been the QB throughout the playoffs. He'll win this job in the offseason.
I wasn't clear, let me rephrase. Why would you want Oz as backup to Savage? Particularly, if you do have the authority, and the OK of the front office, to release him? What I'm asking, taking the finances out of it, how many think OB would still chose to keep Oz on the roster?
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
OB and the team is doubling down on Brock. They are joined at the hip with success and failure.
How do you figure this? OB sat Os once. OB is doubling down on OB and I bet he starts who HE thinks is the best QB on the team in 2017.
I'm excited to see how it's all going to turn out. I'm hoping for a glorious run to Super Bowl LII, but I wouldn't be shocked at dismal failure and a coaching change.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
How do you figure this? OB sat Os once. OB is doubling down on OB and I bet he starts who HE thinks is the best QB on the team in 2017.
I'm excited to see how it's all going to turn out. I'm hoping for a glorious run to Super Bowl LII, but I wouldn't be shocked at dismal failure and a coaching change.
I think OB was a bigger part of bringing Brock. Sat him when he didn't do well, but could have easily gone to Savage who he said give the team the best chance to win against the Patriots. Then he played as a learning experience for Brock. I think Godsey was the sacrificial lamb, and saved him and "his system" another year.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I think OB was a bigger part of bringing Brock.
According to McClain's reporting of the events that led to signing Brock, it was O'Brien who finger ed Brock.

Immediately after the season, according to McClain, Bill O'Brien immersed himself in film of Texans players and potential free agents. He came away believing Osweiler was "the right guy."
Rick bought in
The tape GM Rick Smith watched before free agency only reinforced O'Brien's beliefs about Osweiler.
& McNair ponies up the mulah
When it came down to money, the Texans simply offered more. Which is how owner Bob McNair understood things would operate if he wanted to steal someone else's quarterback.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I think OB was a bigger part of bringing Brock. Sat him when he didn't do well, but could have easily gone to Savage who he said give the team the best chance to win against the Patriots. Then he played as a learning experience for Brock. I think Godsey was the sacrificial lamb, and saved him and "his system" another year.
I had the opposite take. IMO, OB left Os in the NE game so that he had the ammo he needed to not be forced to start Os if OB thought a different QB gave the Texans the best shot at winning.

I'm speaking only on the NE game.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
...but could have easily gone to Savage who he said give the team the best chance to win against the Patriots.
O'b said he believed it was best for the team to start Savage for the Bengals' game. He never said anything like that after that game.

For all we know, he threw Tom in to see if Brock was holding Godsey back. That the offense looked exactly the same, he may have made up his mind then that Godsey was gone.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
I wasn't clear, let me rephrase. Why would you want Oz as backup to Savage? Particularly, if you do have the authority, and the OK of the front office,to release him? What I'm asking, taking the finances out of it, how many think OB would still chose to keep Oz on the roster?
The money is the only reason. But, it is a reason. Maybe they'll surprise us all and cut Brock?
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
The money is the only reason. But, it is a reason. Maybe they'll surprise us all and cut Brock?
It wouldn't surprise me if they cut him. We all know what a distraction he would be and Weeden has shown that he is a capable back up if Savage's frailty issues show back up.

I'd look into trading him and offer to pay half or more of his salary. I believe that would eliminate the $6M from next year.
 

banned1976

All Pro
I'm glad this move was made but this, and many other of O'Brien's staff members fired ("mutually parted ways") over the last 2 years signals to me this team is very unstable. And now they've totally reshuffled the deck. This coach moves here, that one moves there, that one gets canned, lets just keeping throwing things at the wall until something sticks. That's not how successful franchises are run.
 
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DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I'm glad this move was made but this, and many other of O'Brien's staff members fired ("mutually parted ways") over the last 2 years signals to me this team is very unstable. And now they've totally reshuffled the deck. This coach moves here, that one moves there, that one gets canned, lets just keeping throwing things at the wall until something sticks. That's not how successful franchises are run.
I think that's fairly constant with position coaches, isn't it?
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
I'd look into trading him and offer to pay half or more of his salary. I believe that would eliminate the $6M from next year.
I don't think you can do that in the NFL. In MLB, you can.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I had the opposite take. IMO, OB left Os in the NE game so that he had the ammo he needed to not be forced to start Os if OB thought a different QB gave the Texans the best shot at winning.

I'm speaking only on the NE game.
I am not sure if OB is playing the long game or the short game or if he can distinguish between the two.

As more details and leaks come in it seems he is a short fuse kind of guy that makes impulse decisions.

Not saying you are right or wrong.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
O'b said he believed it was best for the team to start Savage for the Bengals' game. He never said anything like that after that game.

For all we know, he threw Tom in to see if Brock was holding Godsey back. That the offense looked exactly the same, he may have made up his mind then that Godsey was gone.
You may be right.

But you know how crazy that sounds that just this one game - this one time - we will sit Brock and start Savage this game.

Would Brock have sat out the rest of the season or came back in Tennessee?

I don't know but that is some pretty crazy decision making. Unless Bill is a Psychology major and is out thinking Brock and playing mind games. I know Coaches have sat QBs before when they have had a bad day, (I.e.Moon) but man I just don't know about OB to give him that much credit.
 

banned1976

All Pro
I think that's fairly constant with position coaches, isn't it?
Chad O'Shea has been NE's WR coach since 2009. O'Brien has had at least 2 in 3 years. Dante Scarnecchia has been their o-line coach for 16 seasons. How many has O'Brien had? Joe Judge has been NE's ST's assistant coach and now coach for 4 years. O'Brien? Josh Boyer, defensive backs coach has been with Belichick for 8 years, the last 5 in his current position. Ivan Fears, RB coach for the Pats for the last 15. He's been with them for 20 years.

One of the reasons the Patriots are so good is because they have stability throughout their organization. The Texans, under O'Brien do not.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
O'b said he believed it was best for the team to start Savage for the Bengals' game. He never said anything like that after that game.

For all we know, he threw Tom in to see if Brock was holding Godsey back. That the offense looked exactly the same, he may have made up his mind then that Godsey was gone.
BOB did start Savage against the Tacks.

It's not like Os tore up the Tacks or the Raiders, why didn't BOB go back to the QB that he said gave him the best chance to win 2 weeks before? What changed? It certainly wasn't Os great QB play.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I am not sure if OB is playing the long game or the short game or if he can distinguish between the two.

As more details and leaks come in it seems he is a short fuse kind of guy that makes impulse decisions.

Not saying you are right or wrong.
It's a well known fact that OB has a temper. His nickname in NE was teapot cuz you knew he was gonna blow at some point. I don't equate that with impulse decisions, though. I watched the 2016 QB situation through the prism of game 1 of 2015, so I wasn't surprised that he stuck with Os as long as he did.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm glad this move was made but this, and many other of O'Brien's staff members fired ("mutually parted ways") over the last 2 years signals to me this team is very unstable. And now they've totally reshuffled the deck. This coach moves here, that one moves there, that one gets canned, lets just keeping throwing things at the wall until something sticks. That's not how successful franchises are run.
There's turnover on most staff each yr. Even the Pats, Patricia/McDaniels were up for HC positions this yr.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
BOB did start Savage against the Tacks.

It's not like Os tore up the Tacks or the Raiders, why didn't BOB go back to the QB that he said gave him the best chance to win 2 weeks before? What changed? It certainly wasn't Os great QB play.
Savage got concussed and Os got starter reps. I was surprised when OB didn't yank Os in the 2nd half of the NE game.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The money is the only reason. But, it is a reason. Maybe they'll surprise us all and cut Brock?
They can cut Brock or Savage, I wouldn't be surprised unless we didn't draft a QB or two.

If we go to camp with Weeden, Barkley, & McGloin, I'll be shocked & pissed & disillusioned & a terror to all the puppies in the neighborhood.
 

banned1976

All Pro
There's turnover on most staff each yr. Even the Pats, Patricia/McDaniels were up for HC positions this yr.
I agree, there is a lot of turnover in the NFL. But you can't deny the reason there's turnover in O'Brien's staff is because he hired the wrong people. It's not like Ligashesky went on to bigger and better things. He's now a college ST's coordinator and TE's coach on a crappy team.
 


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