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Texans Acquire Gareon Conley DB from the Raiders for a Third round pick

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Watch the film, you only need to go back as far as last Sunday. If you're looking for a physical CB he's not the guy. But you're right he could be better with a better d-line helping him out. But what CB isn't? Lol.
I looked at the highlights from last week and Conley had a bad game. (No doubt) But he was mostly playing in off coverage. Go back and check out his college tape and how well he's tackled in the pros.

I do worry about his love of the game.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Yikes.

No wonder Oakland dumped him
Watch the technique he is playing. Remind you of any preferred "defensive philosophy"?? How is a guy who is that bad in the very same scheme that is played here going to come here and somehow make the same scheme better! INSANITY!



Lets also further this discussion on "scheme" and who plays what, and what player is more suited for this, that and the other (not aimed at you K - just expanding a thought from earlier) now Im not sure that there are any metrics for defensive personnel groupings so far this year, instinct and feel tell me that RAC has deviated from the norm somewhat to try and get a semblance of pressure on the QB (hasnt materialized into a consistent and winning formula) but all this talk about man vs zone and red vs blue and wet vs dry is crazy. An NFL CB is expected to be able to fulfil their assignment on every single play ESPECIALLY a 1st round pick right! So what Im being sold is that the TExans picked up a man specialist when they hardly run a man cover scheme. So then in turn this would imply that the Texans and RAC are going to CHANGE what they do now that they have this lock down corner, and play more base defense and really GET AFTER THAT QB right?

WRONG.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-defensive-personnel-analysis

Correlate the defensive line alignments from last year and again take into account that currently the Texans "HORRIBLE" defense stands about dead middle of the pack in almost every defensive efficiency metric available.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/pressure-number-pass-rushers-2018

( I tried to use another metric based site other than PFF for you "football purists")


you can see from that link that the Texans were not very successful even last year WITH Clowney in generating pressure from base DL sets (4-5 men), so therein they were among the leaders in rushing 2-3 men and dropping 8 in a dime hybrid. THIS IS WHAT ROMEO CRENNEL LIKES TO DO!!!

I wish folks were more upfront about their personal opinion on Conley and offer up their commentary that way and I would appreciate the optimism and bust out the "I HOPE IM WRONG" card, but then you have guys here who intentionally make up stuff like Deshaun Watson only throwing to one side of the field, or only analyzing one side of the field, or that the offensive receiving sets have always been some modern installment, or that Watson should be able to diagnose every single progression on every single play regardless of pressure or faulty play call. Its misleading and does NOTHING to move the conversation further in a positive way. Base your comment or opinion in a subjective way and explain why you feel that way COOL i'll listen and try to add to, but if you try to tell me the sky is purple, well then we wont be seeing eye to eye.

If you want to discredit a piece of data - COOL!! Point it out, remain civil, offer and alternative for inspection and we can further the discussion and actually get past the pissing contests that dominate this landscape.

TLDR??? - we are not going to be playing more "man" cover scheme, philosophy, alignment or whatever else you want to call it just because we have attained Gareon Conley.
 

zshawn10

All Pro
The Texans trading for Gareon Conley barely registered for most NFL fans, but I think it's one that could have a dramatic effect on Houston's season. https://t.co/II8ibwVYqn

— Steven Ruiz (@theStevenRuiz) October 22, 2019

Conley’s charting stats aren’t great — playing behind a punchless Oakland pass rush has not help — but his tape tells a different story, especially when he was able to play press man. I watched all 52 of his man coverage snaps this season and came away impressed. The 24-year-old showed the ability to run with speedsters like T.Y. Hilton, Stefon Diggs and Sammy Watkins on vertical routes…But Conley is at his best when pressed up on the receiver, where he’s able to use his physicality to disrupt routes…He also does a good job of sticking tight to receivers and mirroring their routes…Per Sports Info Solutions, Conley had given up just 1.38 yards and 0.19 targets per man coverage snap heading into Week 7. Both of those numbers rank ahead of guys like Marshon Lattimore, Jaire Alexander and Jalen Ramsey, whom the Rams just gave up two first-round picks for so they could play more man coverage.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Conley balled out in college. Just weird how the Raiders couldn’t find a way to utilize him though. I hope he balls out here if RAC allows him to play to his strengths.
Shouldnt be too hard to improve on his line of 18 catches on 26 targets for 266 yards and 4 TDs given up so far this year in pass defense. His peripheral teammates here should help insulate him and hopefully this talent he has can mature, but he's not being asked to blend in, he's being tasked with being the best CB on the roster right now, and that is exactly what he was tasked with in OAK. Cautiously optmistic, but in the end he cant be worse than Philip Gaines can he?
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Conley balled out in college. Just weird how the Raiders couldn’t find a way to utilize him though. I hope he balls out here if RAC allows him to play to his strengths.
Lots of people ball out in college and don’t amount to much beyond that.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
I wouldn't count on Conley looking like an all pro on Sunday because he will have only been here less than a week. Although I'm sure some on here will be griping about the trade/All things BOB etc....
Maybe get a chance to see the guys generic athleticism, see how he moves, check out his feet ? I have no high expectations for young Mr. Conley this Sunday.
Young Cal has apparently given O'Brien an ultimatum this year: you have a free hand in using the house's money but you've got to deliver now, this year ! And I dunno what the definitive accomplishment would but for delivering, but I'm sure it's not just getting into the P/Os and then going one and done.
So with with respect to these trades (the "House Money"), I'm OK with them so far with the exception of what received O'Brien got for Clowney.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I know nothing about him but am fine trading away a 3d round pick for a CB that makes us better. What I am wondering? Why didnt we go for Peters. Peters is a difference maker and his price was cheap... I would be willing to give him a big contract next season and ink him in as our #1 CB. He is not a shutdown guy, but a playmaker that will get us interceptions and be good enough otherwise...

Oh well, I am interested in seeing what we get out of Conley...

.

The Salary cap - They are going to have to give Watson $30m+ and don't forget about Tunsil's looming payday , Mercilus is gonna get a fat raise as is DJ Reader. They are going to be in cap hell sooner than later.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
ahhh yes the new hot topic of discrediting PFF analytics, yet never offering up an alternative. So hip!

Yeah lets just keep living in the ether of possibility with this team, has worked marvelously for 2 decades.

"this player hasnt really been any good, but its only because the coaches who drafted him didnt know how to get the most out of him, then they changed coaches, and those coaches couldnt get the most out of him, but its only because he's the best man CB on earth and those dummy coaches should have adapted their schemes to fit his playing style, and the best coaches to ever live here with the Fightin' Houston Texans are going to coach him up something fierce even though for 40 years Romeo Crennel has relied on a Cover 4 shell, but just for Gareon Conely he's going to change!!"

Get that champagne ready boys!!
PFF has been suspect...I’ve heard pros themselves pretty much dismissing it as bogus. only fools solely rely on it as the end all be all. Anyone who has paid attention to Roby’s play this year will tell u he’s been playing pretty damn well.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Why did the Raiders move on from CB Gareon Conley?
Marcus Mosher
3 hours ago


On Monday afternoon, the Raiders decided to make the somewhat puzzling move to trade cornerback Gareon Conley in his third year in the NFL. The price? A likely late third-round pick from the Houston Texans via the Seattle Seahawks.

Conley was allegedly on the trade block during the 2018 season, but Oakland decided to hold onto the former Ohio State cornerback, and that proved to be the right move. Conley quickly developed into one of the better cornerbacks in the league, having massive games against the likes of Antonio Brown and Tyreek Hill.

Unfortunately, Conley just hasn’t been able to replicate that play this season. He had the worst game of his career on Sunday against the Packers, and the team decided to move on while he still had value.

Outside of poor play, it’s important to remember that Jon Gruden and Mike Mayock did not draft Conley. And while that might not be an excuse to trade away a good player, we see this happen too often in the NFL. Front offices just aren’t loyal to players they didn’t draft or sign in free agency.
THE REST OF THE STORY
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
.

The Salary cap - They are going to have to give Watson $30m+ and don't forget about Tunsil's looming payday , Mercilus is gonna get a fat raise as is DJ Reader. They are going to be in cap hell sooner than later.
All good teams get there sooner or later. Brady re-did his contract for Patriots. I don’t think Rogers has and that’s affects the talent on the team.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
GAREON CONLEY TO THE HOUSTON TEXANS
Defensively, the Houston Texans have really struggled on the back end this year, with their secondary allowing the league’s most receiving yards (1,654), the most combined first downs and touchdowns (82) and the league’s seventh-highest passer rating (112.1), all en route to a combined coverage grade of 35.9 — the worst mark among the NFL’s 32 secondary groups. Thus far, not a single member of the Houston secondary has earned a coverage grade above 70.0, while defensive backs Phillip Gaines, Keion Crossen and Lonnie Johnson Jr. have all stumbled to sub-30.0 coverage grades through seven weeks. Long story short, The Texans needed secondary help, badly.

Now three years into his career, Conley hasn’t wowed like many thought he would, but he’s almost certainly going to provide an upgrade for the Houston secondary simply due to the fact that it can’t get much worse. He’s played 356 total snaps through seven weeks, and though he has graded below 70.0 in five of his six games, he did show the kind of impact he can have on the back end in his team’s Week 4 game against Indianapolis when he allowed just two completions from five targets, coming away with an interception and an elite single-game coverage grade in the process.

There are certainly reasons to believe that Conley’s acquisition would be good for all involved, not least is the coverage scheme in which he’s set to play. Seven games in, the Houston Texans have played a man coverage shell on 50.3% of their snaps, which is the fourth-highest rate among teams and a 19% increase from the Raiders’ use. This so happens to play right into Conley’s strengths, as the former Buckeye has earned a coverage grade of 62.3 in his snaps in man coverage, forcing an incompletion on 21.7% of his targets. On his snaps in zone coverage, where he’s played the majority of his snaps over the last three years, Conley has earned a 61.2 coverage grade and forced an incompletion on only 15.4% of his targets.

It’s a hefty price for the Texans and Bill O’Brien to pay, and it’s almost certainly a gamble given that Conley has earned just seven single-game grades north of 70.0 over his entire career, but there is no doubt that a change of scenery is just what Conley needs to finally realize his first-round pedigree.


https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-reacting-to-gareon-conley-mohamed-sanu-trades
 

LikeMike

Veteran
.

The Salary cap - They are going to have to give Watson $30m+ and don't forget about Tunsil's looming payday , Mercilus is gonna get a fat raise as is DJ Reader. They are going to be in cap hell sooner than later.
I don’t know about him being a locker room cancer - but judging his on the field play I would much rather pay him than Mercilus - and maybe even Reader. Merciless is getting up there in age and had as many down as up seasons... Reader is great but I value CB higher than NT. In my perfect salary cap scenario I pay top dollar for QB, LT, pass rusher and CB. We have three of those covered, Peters would have been my CB. Pass rusher would be next biggest need since Watt gets up there in age as well...
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
GAREON CONLEY TO THE HOUSTON TEXANS
Defensively, the Houston Texans have really struggled on the back end this year, with their secondary allowing the league’s most receiving yards (1,654), the most combined first downs and touchdowns (82) and the league’s seventh-highest passer rating (112.1), all en route to a combined coverage grade of 35.9 — the worst mark among the NFL’s 32 secondary groups. Thus far, not a single member of the Houston secondary has earned a coverage grade above 70.0, while defensive backs Phillip Gaines, Keion Crossen and Lonnie Johnson Jr. have all stumbled to sub-30.0 coverage grades through seven weeks. Long story short, The Texans needed secondary help, badly.

Now three years into his career, Conley hasn’t wowed like many thought he would, but he’s almost certainly going to provide an upgrade for the Houston secondary simply due to the fact that it can’t get much worse. He’s played 356 total snaps through seven weeks, and though he has graded below 70.0 in five of his six games, he did show the kind of impact he can have on the back end in his team’s Week 4 game against Indianapolis when he allowed just two completions from five targets, coming away with an interception and an elite single-game coverage grade in the process.

There are certainly reasons to believe that Conley’s acquisition would be good for all involved, not least is the coverage scheme in which he’s set to play. Seven games in, the Houston Texans have played a man coverage shell on 50.3% of their snaps, which is the fourth-highest rate among teams and a 19% increase from the Raiders’ use. This so happens to play right into Conley’s strengths, as the former Buckeye has earned a coverage grade of 62.3 in his snaps in man coverage, forcing an incompletion on 21.7% of his targets. On his snaps in zone coverage, where he’s played the majority of his snaps over the last three years, Conley has earned a 61.2 coverage grade and forced an incompletion on only 15.4% of his targets.

It’s a hefty price for the Texans and Bill O’Brien to pay, and it’s almost certainly a gamble given that Conley has earned just seven single-game grades north of 70.0 over his entire career, but there is no doubt that a change of scenery is just what Conley needs to finally realize his first-round pedigree.


https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-reacting-to-gareon-conley-mohamed-sanu-trades
OH WOW look! a PFF article that is positive of Conley, is PFF now an accepted source for data and material??

We will see soon enough if RAC can finally unveil the true Cover 4 defense that he loves if he has the outside guys he needs to fulfil the scheme.

You know kinda how the Pro O'Brien troupe cried about not having enough talent on the offensive line, QB, TE, waterboy, jockstrap cleaner etc...

Well now you have the flip side. Now the defense is in shambles. Its a marvel that they get stops at opportune times actually, and a testament to the methodology that RAC employs. Good coach. He gets the best out of the marginal guys.

Staying grounded here is a grading chart for PFF:

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/652583704800444416?s=20

The Player Grading Scale:
100-90 Elite
89-85 Pro Bowler
84-70 Starter
69-60 Backup
59-0 Replaceable
Hopefully we are getting more than a backup for a 3rd round pick. We'll see. I HOPE IM WRONG!!!
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
All good teams get there sooner or later. Brady re-did his contract for Patriots. I don’t think Rogers has and that’s affects the talent on the team.

I was simply answering the question as to why they didn't go after a "game changer" at the position.
They simply don't have the financial ability going forward …. nor do they have the draft capital after dealing for Tunsil. No first round picks in the next two drafts.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
OH WOW look! a PFF article that is positive of Conley, is PFF now an accepted source for data and material??

We will see soon enough if RAC can finally unveil the true Cover 4 defense that he loves if he has the outside guys he needs to fulfil the scheme.

You know kinda how the Pro O'Brien troupe cried about not having enough talent on the offensive line, QB, TE, waterboy, jockstrap cleaner etc...

Well now you have the flip side. Now the defense is in shambles. Its a marvel that they get stops at opportune times actually, and a testament to the methodology that RAC employs. Good coach. He gets the best out of the marginal guys.

Staying grounded here is a grading chart for PFF:

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/652583704800444416?s=20



Hopefully we are getting more than a backup for a 3rd round pick. We'll see. I HOPE IM WRONG!!!
Positive? Sounds relatively negative to neutral.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I was simply answering the question as to why they didn't go after a "game changer" at the position.
They simply don't have the financial ability going forward …. nor do they have the draft capital after dealing for Tunsil. No first round picks in the next two drafts.
Agree on draft capital.

Financial disagree.

Money gets spread out and prorated.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
There is no question we needed help.
Conley will be an upgrade over most of the DBs we currently have on the roster.
We have to roll the dice here - no doubt about it.
Don'tknow why you quoted me
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Not sure I would use duke as an example, he hasn’t done **** here. Very disappointed in him so far. Last week was his best hopefully he’ll keep improving.

I only know what I’ve read here about Connolly. I love that he’s a man coverage DB. I’ve been screaming for us to stop this zone 12 yards off crap forever. I hate it! Now the question is, will RAC use him to his strengths or will he expect him to play like we’ve been playing? Everyone always says we have to ply this way because we don’t have DBs that can play man. Now we will see if that was correct or if RAC just has his system and won’t budge from it.
I am not going to even link stats showing how wrong you are about Duke Johnson. Many here hoped he would be the main guy to replace Lamar Miller not knowing how good Carlos Hyde would turn out to be. Johnson has earned his spot and as I said earlier my only complaint is him not getting enough snaps.

I do agree with your comments on Conley and RAC.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
.

The Salary cap - They are going to have to give Watson $30m+ and don't forget about Tunsil's looming payday , Mercilus is gonna get a fat raise as is DJ Reader. They are going to be in cap hell sooner than later.
They don't have to do anything next year but they can give Watson and Tunsil 30 million each and reader and merciless 15 each without touching any rollover from this year. No one thinks reader would get anywhere near 15 million
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
They don't have to do anything next year but they can give Watson and Tunsil 30 million each and reader and merciless 15 each without touching any rollover from this year. No one thinks reader would get anywhere near 15 million
Capspace for next year is around $90m including rollover.

Why don't you think reader could get around $15m?

They also need to find two starting corners (and Conley will cost $10m in his fifth year) plus the starting TE and RB are free agents too.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Man yall acting like man coverage is our bread and butter on defense . He will press some and play 10 yards off some. Therefore, you have to grade how he does all around.

How does he play the run?
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
A fresh start might be just what Conley needs to get going. Clearly things were not working out in Oakland and he likely has a chip on his shoulder after being shown the door as the marquee CB coming into the season.

A little research shows just how the Raiders felt about Conley.... not good.

https://raiderforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15867
It is very fishy they would give up on him like this. He must really suck like the fans say
 

Bulldog

Practice Squad
It is very fishy they would give up on him like this. He must really suck like the fans say
Again, the talent is there. But he obviously needs someone to kick him into gear.

To the person above asking about how he plays the run - that is the worst aspect of his game and there isn’t anyone out there who will contend otherwise.

Again for reference;

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattWaldman/status/1186084506505285632

later in the game last weekend, he’s on Valdes-Scantling here


https://www.packers.com/video/can-t-miss-play-wr-marquez-valdes-scantling-takes-74-yard-catch-and-run-in-for-t
 
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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Agree on draft capital.

Financial disagree.

Money gets spread out and prorated.

Watson's gonna get $30m+ average.

Tunsil will probably get $17-18m average.

Mercilus is gonna cost more than the $12m he's getting now. Probably 16-17 and will have earned it.

DJ Reader will get something between 5-7 average.

What gets spread out is "Bonus Money".

Still have to sign a CB or two ….

A lot depends upon what they do with Watson and Tunsil - Do they take the 5th year options and extend beyond that or do they just extend them without that 5th year option - That could give them a one year window to splurge on other positions before they have to pay those two.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Watson's gonna get $30m+ average.

Tunsil will probably get $17-18m average.

Mercilus is gonna cost more than the $12m he's getting now. Probably 16-17 and will have earned it.

DJ Reader will get something between 5-7 average.

What gets spread out is "Bonus Money".

Still have to sign a CB or two ….

A lot depends upon what they do with Watson and Tunsil - Do they take the 5th year options and extend beyond that or do they just extend them without that 5th year option - That could give them a one year window to splurge on other positions before they have to pay those two.
It is hard to splurge for one year though, as most guys are looking for multi year deals
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
.
They don't have to do anything next year but they can give Watson and Tunsil 30 million each and reader and merciless 15 each without touching any rollover from this year. No one thinks reader would get anywhere near 15 million

I'm thinking the floor for Reader is about 7m …. no clue about the ceiling.

Mercilus 15-17 and I think that's pretty good value assuming he keeps up his level of play.

Still a lot to do roster wise - not having draft picks isn't going to help.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
It is hard to splurge for one year though, as most guys are looking for multi year deals

Absolutely …. people complaining that they got this guy instead of Peter just aren't looking at the big picture. You cant pay everyone and their uncle too , you have to have players outperform contracts when your QB / WR / LT / DE / OLB are all making big money.

The way the cap and contracts are - those 3rd - 5th years of the rookie deals on those premium positions are when you can put your best teams on the field.


Really going to be interesting how they handle Watson & Tunsil on extensions - do they get them on the 5th year of rookie deals or not ?
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Absolutely …. people complaining that they got this guy instead of Peter just aren't looking at the big picture. You cant pay everyone and their uncle too , you have to have players outperform contracts when your QB / WR / LT / DE / OLB are all making big money.

The way the cap and contracts are - those 3rd - 5th years of the rookie deals on those premium positions are when you can put your best teams on the field.


Really going to be interesting how they handle Watson & Tunsil on extensions - do they get them on the 5th year of rookie deals or not ?
Or give them a moderate bump next year, which neither player has to accept of course
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
.



I'm thinking the floor for Reader is about 7m …. no clue about the ceiling.

Mercilus 15-17 and I think that's pretty good value assuming he keeps up his level of play.

Still a lot to do roster wise - not having draft picks isn't going to help.
Is mercilis worth that much? I'm not sure he's that good. Probably not a pro bowler
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Is mercilis worth that much? I'm not sure he's that good. Probably not a pro bowler

I think he is …. at least based upon the impact he's had so far this year. He's been really solid.

While Clowney was here Mercilus was playing out of position.

Take into account he's making 12m currently. Maybe they get him for 15 ….
 
A fresh start might be just what Conley needs to get going. Clearly things were not working out in Oakland and he likely has a chip on his shoulder after being shown the door as the marquee CB coming into the season.

A little research shows just how the Raiders felt about Conley.... not good.

https://raiderforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15867
It is very fishy they would give up on him like this. He must really suck like the fans say
Pretty sure I can find a thread or series of posts about every player on our roster that looks the same, including Watson. Maybe JJ and Hop wouldn’t have one but anybody else, yeah pretty sure it could be done. Of course the same could be said about every team and every player after a loss.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Why did the Raiders move on from CB Gareon Conley?
Marcus Mosher
3 hours ago


Conley was allegedly on the trade block during the 2018 season, but Oakland decided to hold onto the former Ohio State cornerback, and that proved to be the right move. Conley quickly developed into one of the better cornerbacks in the league, having massive games against the likes of Antonio Brown and Tyreek Hill.


THE REST OF THE STORY
I'm just gonna hold on to that and leave the rest to RC.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Pretty sure I can find a thread or series of posts about every player on our roster that looks the same, including Watson. Maybe JJ and Hop wouldn’t have one but anybody else, yeah pretty sure it could be done. Of course the same could be said about every team and every player after a loss.
True. Although in the situation of trading for someone else's first rounder (rather than drafting our own) I think the bust rate is unusually high
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Maybe get a chance to see the guys generic athleticism, see how he moves, check out his feet ? I have no high expectations for young Mr. Conley this Sunday.
Young Cal has apparently given O'Brien an ultimatum this year: you have a free hand in using the house's money but you've got to deliver now, this year ! And I dunno what the definitive accomplishment would but for delivering, but I'm sure it's not just getting into the P/Os and then going one and done.
So with with respect to these trades (the "House Money"), I'm OK with them so far with the exception of what received O'Brien got for Clowney.
This is where I am

But I dont expect a long playoff run. Right now they're the 3rd best team in the AFC, but can beat anybody but probably the Pats. They just have to figure out a way to play consistently well for 4 straight weeks in the playoffs. So far that hasn't happened but it's asking a lot to ask a young QB to play consistent for 4 straight weeks. It happens to the best. Moon couldn't do it, hence no AFCCG in his career.
 


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