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Texans Acquire Gareon Conley DB from the Raiders for a Third round pick
- Thread starter jshabang
- Start date
Not if there's a TE on the board.
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Too little too late. Secondary is so decimated that we are doomed to be a run-of-the-mill average team at best this year. Why sink more draft picks into it? Let's try to recover some good picks for the future. See what we can get for Fuller. He's too injury prone to do us any good and we are ok at the position with Stills at wideout and Coutee in the slot.
badboy
Hall of Fame
It is one thing for someone to agree on a player with minimal comment but to be negative on a player without saying why and supporting that POV makes one look ill informed. Saying Conley is a poor tackler but ignoring he didn't miss a tackle in the few games he played 2018 is silly. I could post some interesting stats like he was only targeted 17.6% (11th best) and only 9.9 yards per target. To be transparent he did allow 15.6 per catch but I thin that is due to the zone scheme of Raiders forcing him to allow separation of just over one yard which should improve greatly in our man coverage.
He fits my desires for corner at 6 foot 195 lbs and 4.44 speed. He is a bit stiff as others have noted but I think he will loosen some as he get more confident is a system he should excel in. The film shows me he progresses with time on field. Just a feeling but I think he could be our replacement if Roby leaves with Crossen taking over for Joseph and Lonnie being even better in nickle than outside where he has done much better than I had hoped. I'm hoping Midget can help Crossen, Johnson, Gaines and Conley as he really helped safety Eddy Pleasant at safety along with Reid.
Conley could be what Duke Johnson has turned out to be so far and each for a third.
He fits my desires for corner at 6 foot 195 lbs and 4.44 speed. He is a bit stiff as others have noted but I think he will loosen some as he get more confident is a system he should excel in. The film shows me he progresses with time on field. Just a feeling but I think he could be our replacement if Roby leaves with Crossen taking over for Joseph and Lonnie being even better in nickle than outside where he has done much better than I had hoped. I'm hoping Midget can help Crossen, Johnson, Gaines and Conley as he really helped safety Eddy Pleasant at safety along with Reid.
Conley could be what Duke Johnson has turned out to be so far and each for a third.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
The Texans just need to tell #55 not to plow his own player .
badboy
Hall of Fame
yeah I cringe when I saw his foot roll but groaned when on replay I saw McKinney hit him.
Salary cap going forward .... not to mention - What first round pick are you giving away ?! We don't have one for the next two years.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Duke Johnson 7 games 44/273 at 6.2 per rush. 13/127 at 9.8 per catch and 1 TD.
Rico this is why you get so little respect..you just throw stuff out there with seemingly no idea what you are saying. IF anything you should be posting Johnson should get more snaps with ball in his hands. You could be right on Conley but why not wait a game or two to see how he does in our coverage before calling him a bust?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
He was always a man press cover corner in college and was originally picked as such by the Raiders. He was out injured in his 2017 rookie year. When he came back, the Raiders hired Gruden, who brought in his DC Guenther who converted the entire D into his zone based 4-3 defensive scheme with the existing players consisting of many players who had never played in such a scheme (Conley included).........basically fish out of water...........when Gruden came in, as is not atypical, he and his DC started getting rid of most of the "hold over" players there before him, meanwhile playing Conley only sparingly because he wasn't his pick...........again in strict zone scheme............until he finally got rid of him.
As long as we can get one other man press corner to stay healthy..........and in Lonnie Johnson's case gain more experience, we may end up with another set of decent "bookends."
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
You have literally said this about every player they have traded for this season. Makes me wonder how you value players. “BoB got Zeke and Hill for a 7th each? To expensive, he’s wasting this team’s future.”
No I said the clowney trade was too cheap
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Not sure I would use duke as an example, he hasn’t done **** here. Very disappointed in him so far. Last week was his best hopefully he’ll keep improving.
I only know what I’ve read here about Connolly. I love that he’s a man coverage DB. I’ve been screaming for us to stop this zone 12 yards off crap forever. I hate it! Now the question is, will RAC use him to his strengths or will he expect him to play like we’ve been playing? Everyone always says we have to ply this way because we don’t have DBs that can play man. Now we will see if that was correct or if RAC just has his system and won’t budge from it.
ROO
Tweak the offense already!
Haha, you got me. I read the first few sentences and thought, "damn TK, why the hate?" And since I am optimistic about this trade and anxious to see how it plays out, and because I respect your evaluations, you kinda put me in a funk about Conley. Then I kept reading and was "oh, haha, good one!"
BOBdaFRAUD
Waterboy
Soup Bowl here we come
I know nothing about him but am fine trading away a 3d round pick for a CB that makes us better. What I am wondering? Why didnt we go for Peters. Peters is a difference maker and his price was cheap... I would be willing to give him a big contract next season and ink him in as our #1 CB. He is not a shutdown guy, but a playmaker that will get us interceptions and be good enough otherwise...
Oh well, I am interested in seeing what we get out of Conley...
Oh well, I am interested in seeing what we get out of Conley...
Peters is supposed to be a turd. That’s why he’s on his third team. It’s too bad because he’s a great player
Who should get less targets?
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Peters is a known locker room cancer and for every big play he makes he gives up another 2. NFL teams hate giving up big plays more than they enjoy making them... and they definitely don't like locker room cancers.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Rams traded him for a linebacker that has done nothing in Balt. and a pick believed to be around a 5th. That tells me there was something else there and they wanted rid of him in the same way we did Clowney. This is also assuming they even made the offer to other teams and it wasn't just something they offered to the ravens for whatever reason. Last rumor i had heard was they wanted a 1st and some change for him. Not only that but he's going to want a big money contract and we have enough of those over the next two years. In many ways Peters is like a CB version of AB. Unbelievably talented but you never know what he is going to do and he has a habit of showboating and costing his team big just as much as he does make difference making plays.
I like your take C&D.
We have so many injuries on the back-end of the D we've got to get somebody like Conley who's got starting experience and so he and Johnson could be our corners over the longer term. We will get a look-see at Conely soon enough as he's almost certain to play some this Sunday.
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Texas Jake
Rookie
I disagree, but that's because I haven't given up on this season yet. The CB (former fist round pick) they traded for has the potential to become a very good player for years to come. If that is the case, he would be well worth a third round pick.
I was thinking Clowney.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I'm not a Clowney fan but I will say he never really showboated or went off script to do his own thing like Peters is said to do. Likewise he doesn't chase WR down after they have scored a touchdown. Locker room cancer part maybe true I don't know.
markn
All Pro
I think this trade makes sense and he could represent good value if changing back to a predominantly man-coverage scheme works as anticipated for him.
In fact, I'm broadly in favor of all the trades that we've made post-Gaine. Tunsil, Stills and Conley are all potentially high quality players in positions of need, albeit perhaps slightly expensive which goes hand-in-hand with the apparent 'win-now' attitude.
Where I'm less happy is the nature of the trades and how they fit within this team's mission. We don't appear to have a clever strategy designed to optimize our acquisitions against our draft capital, instead we look like a panicky shopper making a mad trolly-dash around the supermarket just before closing time. And while slightly overpaying to save our season is expected, I have this horrible feeling that by the time the powers that be finally realize that the mad, all-powerful, emperor-BOB strategy isn't going to work, we'll have put ourselves in a very poor spot for the next regime to build on. I just don't buy that we're a team on the cusp of a super bowl barring a few injuries.
In fact, I'm broadly in favor of all the trades that we've made post-Gaine. Tunsil, Stills and Conley are all potentially high quality players in positions of need, albeit perhaps slightly expensive which goes hand-in-hand with the apparent 'win-now' attitude.
Where I'm less happy is the nature of the trades and how they fit within this team's mission. We don't appear to have a clever strategy designed to optimize our acquisitions against our draft capital, instead we look like a panicky shopper making a mad trolly-dash around the supermarket just before closing time. And while slightly overpaying to save our season is expected, I have this horrible feeling that by the time the powers that be finally realize that the mad, all-powerful, emperor-BOB strategy isn't going to work, we'll have put ourselves in a very poor spot for the next regime to build on. I just don't buy that we're a team on the cusp of a super bowl barring a few injuries.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Gareon Conley overall PFF grade - 55.6
Kareem Jackson overall PFF grade - 84.5
Bradley Roby overall PFF grade - 67.1
Aarón Colvin overall PFF grade - 27.4
Jonathan Joseph overall PFF grade - 58.9
Lonnie Johnson overall PFF grade - 33.7
Chris Harris overall PFF grade - 74.9
Tashaun Gipson - 54.3
Justin Reid - 66.9
Jahleel Addai - 49.6
putting a band aid on a bullet hole and giving away picks in the process.
This is where I get to say the defense doesn’t have the talent to be competitive - you guys want to run straight up man on the islands then you better get CBs that can cover, and Gareon freakin' Conley isnt the answer there, and not for the price tag. YOu dont have the bodies up front to consistently apply pressure, and more importantly apply that pressure at the most necessary times. RAC has been forced to blitz more often this year to account for that and it has led to plenty of 'pants down' moments in the secondary.
Should have gone best CB in draft instead of project lineman. (its working out - i get that woo hoo, but in all honesty Tytus Howard wasnt the only answer for you RT/LG problems and could have been solved later - I digress)
I have more faith in the defensive coaches to bring the most out of Conley but it’s been 3 years. He is who he is. Not all great college CBs translate (and he wasn’t THAT great in OSU anyway) or is he only a viable option when running man? Its confusing to label a CB that way. RAC employs a cover 4 zone, its what he does. So now he's going to change what he's done for 40 years because he has Bradley Roby and Gareon Conley? LMAO. OKAY. He runs out amoeba/psycho fronts out of the dime package a ton too. He has morphed the 4-3/3-4 into his own making. Saying an NFL CB is not good at playing a 'zone' scheme, but is tailor made for a 'man' scheme isnt really helping the argument.
https://www.battleredblog.com/2019/5/20/18619188/the-texans-coverage-schemes-wont-change
Kareem Jackson overall PFF grade - 84.5
Bradley Roby overall PFF grade - 67.1
Aarón Colvin overall PFF grade - 27.4
Jonathan Joseph overall PFF grade - 58.9
Lonnie Johnson overall PFF grade - 33.7
Chris Harris overall PFF grade - 74.9
Tashaun Gipson - 54.3
Justin Reid - 66.9
Jahleel Addai - 49.6
putting a band aid on a bullet hole and giving away picks in the process.
This is where I get to say the defense doesn’t have the talent to be competitive - you guys want to run straight up man on the islands then you better get CBs that can cover, and Gareon freakin' Conley isnt the answer there, and not for the price tag. YOu dont have the bodies up front to consistently apply pressure, and more importantly apply that pressure at the most necessary times. RAC has been forced to blitz more often this year to account for that and it has led to plenty of 'pants down' moments in the secondary.
Should have gone best CB in draft instead of project lineman. (its working out - i get that woo hoo, but in all honesty Tytus Howard wasnt the only answer for you RT/LG problems and could have been solved later - I digress)
I have more faith in the defensive coaches to bring the most out of Conley but it’s been 3 years. He is who he is. Not all great college CBs translate (and he wasn’t THAT great in OSU anyway) or is he only a viable option when running man? Its confusing to label a CB that way. RAC employs a cover 4 zone, its what he does. So now he's going to change what he's done for 40 years because he has Bradley Roby and Gareon Conley? LMAO. OKAY. He runs out amoeba/psycho fronts out of the dime package a ton too. He has morphed the 4-3/3-4 into his own making. Saying an NFL CB is not good at playing a 'zone' scheme, but is tailor made for a 'man' scheme isnt really helping the argument.
https://www.battleredblog.com/2019/5/20/18619188/the-texans-coverage-schemes-wont-change
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
To point to Conley's PFF score is to ignore his history and subsequent poor choice of his use in the NFL.
And whether he does or doesn't, there is nothing stopping a DC like RAC from playing one side man while he plays the other side zone, if that serves players' strengths.
And whether he does or doesn't, there is nothing stopping a DC like RAC from playing one side man while he plays the other side zone, if that serves players' strengths.
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Yep, if a dude like Peters cant play for Wade he's truly a cancer. Wade usually finds a way to relate and get the best out of guys like Peters.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
ahhh yes the new hot topic of discrediting PFF analytics, yet never offering up an alternative. So hip!
Yeah lets just keep living in the ether of possibility with this team, has worked marvelously for 2 decades.
"this player hasnt really been any good, but its only because the coaches who drafted him didnt know how to get the most out of him, then they changed coaches, and those coaches couldnt get the most out of him, but its only because he's the best man CB on earth and those dummy coaches should have adapted their schemes to fit his playing style, and the best coaches to ever live here with the Fightin' Houston Texans are going to coach him up something fierce even though for 40 years Romeo Crennel has relied on a Cover 4 shell, but just for Gareon Conely he's going to change!!"
Get that champagne ready boys!!
Yeah lets just keep living in the ether of possibility with this team, has worked marvelously for 2 decades.
"this player hasnt really been any good, but its only because the coaches who drafted him didnt know how to get the most out of him, then they changed coaches, and those coaches couldnt get the most out of him, but its only because he's the best man CB on earth and those dummy coaches should have adapted their schemes to fit his playing style, and the best coaches to ever live here with the Fightin' Houston Texans are going to coach him up something fierce even though for 40 years Romeo Crennel has relied on a Cover 4 shell, but just for Gareon Conely he's going to change!!"
Get that champagne ready boys!!
but will he? We need to run press man coverage and be more aggressive up front. I’d rather give up a few big plays here and there than a few 9 plus play clock eating drives that end up scores anyway.
I want opposing QBs to feel the heat and want to get rid of the ball fast. That’s where most make mistakes.
Allowing long clock eating drives just wears down our defense. Hopefully RAC figured that out in the last game. When RAC turned up the pressure in the second half Brisset was a different QB.
If the panicky shopper keeps trading for guys like Tunsil/Stills then they should keep shopping. I also really like the Conley trade. All of these guys are under contract for multiple yrs. The Texans are finally starting to do business like the Pats org does. Look at last yrs Pats as a guide, the Gordon/Trent Brown trades are kinda like what BOB did with Conley. The Tunsil trade cost so much because he's a 10 yr starting LT and those kinda guys dont come cheap.
I dont think the Texans are going to win a SB this yr because their QB is too inconsistent. Doesn't mean he cant learn and get better, but this ain't the yr. I cant wait to see the flaming I'm going to get for that sentence. But sometimes the truth hurts. Hopefully the process can be sped up where he can become consistent enough to play at a high level against the best teams for 4 games in a row, because he has to be able to do this if the Texans are ever going to win a SB and yes BOB needs to improve too. I'm just glad BOB finally changed the offense to better fit Watson's skillset.
Enough of that tangent, truth is you either have to believe in how the Pats do business and believe in what BOB's doing or not. I get why some on here dont trust BOB's vision for this team because for some if he cured cancer they would find something wrong with how he did it or he didn't do it fast enough.
I cant wait for Caserio to get here and take a load off of BOB and Kelly's getting the experience he needs to take over playcalling duties so BOB can concentrate more on big picture things in games. His situational football skills regarding simple things such as math/TO/Challenges are flat out horrible right now and I expected much more from an Ivy League graduate in this regard. But over all I like where the franchise is headed.
Clowney freelanced a lot. Not as bad as Jj but a lot. I don't think he was a cancer in the locker room. Just didn't fit what O'Brien is trying to build.
Not exactly the same as Peters, but the same kind of dynamic.
I said the same thing when Roby signed in FA and regardless of his PFF s score he's played surprisingly well. I trust RAC's judgement on who is a good fit for HIS defense much more than I do yours. If Conley doesn't work out will you comeback to this thread and dog on all things RAC like you do BOB? Nope didn't think so.
I wouldn't count on Conley looking like an all pro on Sunday because he will have only been here less than a week. Although I'm sure some on here will be griping about the trade/All things BOB etc....
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Two seasons ago Conley was at 72 on PFF, last season 64. When players are utlized wrong their play suffers - we can see that all the time. Especially for a young guy, that already has played for multiple coached with different schemes, that all didn't fit his strenghts... Only problem, I am not sure we will play him to his strength either, but I wouldn't mind stop seeing those big cushions on passing plays and some more man-coverage.
Texan Asylum
Hall of Fame
zshawn10
All Pro
Raiders writers were just calling Gareon Conley "elite" just two months ago.
https://www.silverandblackpride.com...ers-raiders-cb-gareon-conley-is-already-elite
https://www.silverandblackpride.com...ers-raiders-cb-gareon-conley-is-already-elite
Conley is talented but that's never been his issue. He plays so, so, so soft. Maybe with better talent around him and in a better scheme for his game he will prove to be a good asset, but he has been terrible this season. Burned left and right and shies away from contact all over the field. See play below from last Sunday.
https://twitter.com/MattWaldman/status/1186084506505285632
Conley struggled elsewhere during the Packers game and hasn't been good in 2019. As the closest defender in coverage, the NFL's Next Gen Stats suggest the Ohio State product has allowed opposing quarterbacks to go 21-of-29 for 389 yards with five touchdowns against a lone pick this season. That's a 139.7 passer rating. The only cornerback who has been targeted at least 20 times who has given up more yards per attempt than Conley's 13.4 yards per throw is the Chargers' Desmond King.”
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27897346/barnwell-2019-nfl-trade-grades-tracking-every-deadline-deal
https://twitter.com/MattWaldman/status/1186084506505285632
Conley struggled elsewhere during the Packers game and hasn't been good in 2019. As the closest defender in coverage, the NFL's Next Gen Stats suggest the Ohio State product has allowed opposing quarterbacks to go 21-of-29 for 389 yards with five touchdowns against a lone pick this season. That's a 139.7 passer rating. The only cornerback who has been targeted at least 20 times who has given up more yards per attempt than Conley's 13.4 yards per throw is the Chargers' Desmond King.”
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27897346/barnwell-2019-nfl-trade-grades-tracking-every-deadline-deal
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Maybe he has been “Brad Lidge-d” and needs a change of environment.
They have plenty of draft picks and the cap is going to go up 20 mil with the new CBA.
You're nothing more than trolling.
How has he looked in man coverage and he should also be much better with the Texans since they have a much better front 7. He looks like a pretty sure tackler to be labeled as soft.
Watch the film, you only need to go back as far as last Sunday. If you're looking for a physical CB he's not the guy. But you're right he could be better with a better d-line helping him out. But what CB isn't? Lol.
Toro Bravo
Rookie
I like this trade. IMO, it makes the Clowney trade seem not as terrible as it once did. Conley, Mingo and Martin account for 2 first round picks and a sixth rounder.
The odds of a 3rd round pick at DB becoming a starter (for half their career) is only 24%, according to SB Nation; https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015...e-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round
This is actually good analytics on BOB's part.
I also don't think the price for Tunsil and Stills is as bad as I initially did. I prefer a young known commodity over an unkown draft pick POTENIAL in most situations.
The odds of a 3rd round pick at DB becoming a starter (for half their career) is only 24%, according to SB Nation; https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015...e-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round
This is actually good analytics on BOB's part.
I also don't think the price for Tunsil and Stills is as bad as I initially did. I prefer a young known commodity over an unkown draft pick POTENIAL in most situations.