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Texans #2 WR position

Bulls on Parade said:
Any chance we can make enough cap space to sign 28-year-old Miles Austin if the Dallas Cowboys release him for salary purposes? I'm assuming we can release 31-year-old Kevin Walter and he'll probably end up in Dallas.

That would be funny if we basically swap number two wide receivers with our in-state rivals. Except we would end up with the much more explosive and younger guy to better compliment Andre Johnson.
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I like Miles Austin...........when he's healthy. He had some decent numbers, but if he comes back this year with recurrent injuries of what he suffered through last year........hip, hamstring and ankle.........his numbers may not be so acceptable. I wouldn't break the bank.
 
badboy said:
[/B]My lack of patience stems from ignoring the WR position for so long, JJ not working out, and our guys from last draft doing so much less that was expected. Add to the list Jean who has difficulty remaining on field and him not being a high draft pick that I can easily move on from.
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11 years with only 1 consistently dependable receiver during that time? I would say that the fan base has been more than patient when it comes to the receiver position. I wouldn't go the Atlanta route to get a dynamic number 2 because there's no Julio Jones in this draft from what I can see, but its a weakness on our team. A good franchise should always look to improve weaknesses.
 
leebigeztx said:
I don't care what kind of supposed pressure the fan base implies,you have to build a team capable of long term success. The foundation is good,but can get better and that includes the wr opposite of andre and his successor. I mean we all know how pathetic the offense is minus andre either by injury,double team,or elite corner. They need a guy,a young guy capable of being a top target wthin 2 or 3 yrs as andre fades. That guy can get training this year whether its hunter,williams,or some other guy. For the fan base who wants to pass because of the duration it might or might not take,then that's your choice. Maybe if kubiak and smith had desperation like some think,then maybe they would risk losing cushing to pay this all out wr who was probably drafted where the texans are drafting now. Of the top wrs is the game now,how many were drafted high? In fact,the top free agents wrs this year none were high picks. Jennings,bowe,wallace,nicks, not 1. So why the lack of patience by the fanbase?
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Other than being wrong about when those receivers were drafted....who the heck has been touting we want them? I think most fans know we can't afford none of the high dollar guys you listed and haven't said much about that. We're talking someone that can give us more flexibility whether it means they are capable of getting YAC off our forever running quick slants or that can run deep instead of Dre being the only one. We're talking Ramsen Barden type or Steve Breaston. Affordable in other words.

A future #1 will most likely need to be developed for long term. But right now we need someone that can contribute and give this offense a playmaking weapon. You don't have to be a top tier guy to do this.
 
deucetx said:
Other than being wrong about when those receivers were drafted....who the heck has been touting we want them? I think most fans know we can't afford none of the high dollar guys you listed and haven't said much about that. We're talking someone that can give us more flexibility whether it means they are capable of getting YAC off our forever running quick slants or that can run deep instead of Dre being the only one. We're talking Ramsen Barden type or Steve Breaston. Affordable in other words.

A future #1 will most likely need to be developed for long term. But right now we need someone that can contribute and give this offense a playmaking weapon. You don't have to be a top tier guy to do this.
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breaston's recent release is a nice addition to the list of possibilities . . . still would like to see the texans at least make an offer to hixon and see if he can be pried away from the giants . . . ;)
 
tru80texan said:
You do realize that list of top FA WR's consist of 2 former 1st round picks, 1 2nd round pick, & 1 3rd round pick? I would consider at least the two 1st rounders & the 2nd rounder "high picks". Some could even make a debate for the 3rd rounder. Posey has been the highest pick used on a WR since Jacoby despite the position needing some help for a few years now & no player of real significance has been brought in via FA to fill the void for lengthy period of time. I think that's where the lack of patience comes from because outside of Andre the position is in need of help & that has been the situation for at least a couple of years now IMO.
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I never knew the 23rd,29,and 52 were considered high picks. A high pick to me is at least top 15. Dwane bowe was picked right around wherethe texans are drafting. There will be some high quality,impactful wr right there. In fact, jennings who was drafted at 52, there will also be a few high quality wrs sitting right there.

My point is, the texans can draft not only a short term answer,but also a long term answer at wr. The texans not only need a #2,but they need a future #1 type also. You can't short change the process.
 
leebigeztx said:
I never knew the 23rd,29,and 52 were considered high picks. A high pick to me is at least top 15. Dwane bowe was picked right around wherethe texans are drafting. There will be some high quality,impactful wr right there. In fact, jennings who was drafted at 52, there will also be a few high quality wrs sitting right there.

My point is, the texans can draft not only a short term answer,but also a long term answer at wr. The texans not only need a #2,but they need a future #1 type also. You can't short change the process.
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Well...I guess now you know. I think most consider the round that a player is selected, not necessarily the pick position when judging if it was a "high pick". 1st & 2nd rounders are considered "high picks" IMO & most expect those players to be contributors. Not everyone can have a top 15 pick & frankly most prefer not to have a top 15 considering you had to have a lackluster season to obtain one. I agree the Texans could fulfill their need at WR where they are drafting(27th), BUT the 1st step for them would actually be drafting a quality player w/ a quality college career early w/in the 1st round or 2 which is not what they have done over the years. This helps explain why the WR position has reached it's current state. Drafting a, for the most part, unknown player out of Lane College & another player who sat out a whole season in college is not necessarily addressing the position in the best possible way IMO.
 
Welp, you can probably pencil Swope in as one of our mid to late round picks. A&M alum and buddies with Kubiaks kid = Shoe in the door

Nick Scurfield‏@NickScurfield

Ryan Swope said he texts weekly with Gary Kubiak’s son Klint, a GA who coached WRs at Texas A&M #Texans #NFLCombine
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*edit* And NO, I'm not saying he will or will not be an option as a #2 WR. Didn't want to create a new thread
 
last year andre finally stayed healthy all season "knocks on wood: i this this year he has alot more left in the tank he will do good things
 
HOU-TEX said:
Welp, you can probably pencil Swope in as one of our mid to late round picks. A&M alum and buddies with Kubiaks kid = Shoe in the door



*edit* And NO, I'm not saying he will or will not be an option as a #2 WR. Didn't want to create a new thread
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I think Swope is gonna be a good receiver in the league. I've heard some people mention him being small but he weighed in at 6 ft even today. Played running back in the past so he has good instincts running after the catch, and he's tough as nails. Don't think we'll draft him even though he'd probably fit better in this offense than Martin.
 
Texn4life said:
I think Swope is gonna be a good receiver in the league. I've heard some people mention him being small but he weighed in at 6 ft even today. Played running back in the past so he has good instincts running after the catch, and he's tough as nails. Don't think we'll draft him even though he'd probably fit better in this offense than Martin.
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Swope wants to be a Texan and is Texans fan. I always welcome a player that is Texans fan. He is likely to play extra hard for the team.
 
Norg said:
last year andre finally stayed healthy all season "knocks on wood: i this this year he has alot more left in the tank he will do good things
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One thing I do worry about, we're going into the season again hoping Matt & Andre don't miss significant time. I know most fans hope their QB & #1 WR don't miss significant time, but we don't have a good history.

I feel good that another year in the system & our OL is going to help Foster dominate & control games, which will help in the event we lose Matt. If we're talking 2 or 3 games, I don't have a problem with Tj Yates waiting in the wings. Like most people on this board, if Matt misses more than that I don't have a lot of confidence with our current "plan" but who, in the NFL, does?

Andre... I'd feel better if Posey hadn't suffered an achilles rupture. I do not feel good with our coaching staff to get a rookie up to speed by December, much less anytime Andre may miss before that.
 
SAMURAITEXAN said:
Swope wants to be a Texan and is Texans fan. I always welcome a player that is Texans fan. He is likely to play extra hard for the team.
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Swope was productive at A & M and has put up a good athletic profile at the combine. EVen if a some nepotism, he is comes off as a kevin walter with legitimate athletic ability.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
Swope was productive at A & M and has put up a good athletic profile at the combine. EVen if a some nepotism, he is comes off as a kevin walter with legitimate athletic ability.
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I think Swope has helped himself to be honest. I honestly didn't think he was as big or as fast as he has measured up to be at the combine. Combined w/ his YAC ability & toughness that I've seen him play with...I'm kinda impressed. Outside of the color of their skin I don't believe him & Walter are anywhere similar to each other. Walter is bigger in size, but outside of that Swope seems to have more potential then Walter ever has.
 
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tru80texan said:
I think Swope has helped himself to be honest. I honestly didn't think he was as big or as fast as he has measured up to be at the combine. Combined w/ his YAC ability & toughness that I've seen him play with...I'm kinda impressed. Outside of the color of their skin I don't believe him & Walter are anywhere similar to each. Walter is bigger in size, but outside of that Swope seems to have more potential then Walter ever has.
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yeah, there was a bit of lazy with KW comp, but considering the size/speed of Swope the Aggie seemed to use him on more short/intermediate stuff. but yeah Swope could be a legitimate WR2 or very good guy out of the slot.
 
Well I like Marquis Goodwin as an option too. He can stretch the field and he would be useful in the reverses we like to run.
 
Hunter or Rodgers in the 1st

Swope or Tavarres King in the 4th

The WR corps would be set for the next decade or so. This is the way I would draft, even at the expense of other positions. The value is certainly there.
 
El Tejano said:
Well I like Marquis Goodwin as an option too. He can stretch the field and he would be useful in the reverses we like to run.
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I like Goodwin, but w/ his size I think he truly is a slot WR. His speed is great, but his size might make most think he his too small to play on the outside. I think the Texans believe they have that type of player in Martin minus the exceptional speed.
 
steelbtexan said:
Hunter or Rodgers in the 1st

Swope or Tavarres King in the 4th

The WR corps would be set for the next decade or so. This is the way I would draft, even at the expense of other positions. The value is certainly there.
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I don't see Swope making it to the 4th round much less the late portion of the 4th. Like I said earlier, I think he helped his stock enough to get himself into the 3rd.

I do like Hunter though.
 
Wowsers! I had no idea Swope was that fast. A 4.34 is haulin ass. I have always kinda blown off the Combine field exercises (although, I still watch), but this kid had to have helped himself with his 40 time. No way he makes it past the 2nd day, imo. Props to the dude
 
tru80texan said:
I like Goodwin, but w/ his size I think he truly is a slot WR. His speed is great, but his size might make most think he his too small to play on the outside. I think the Texans believe they have that type of player in Martin minus the exceptional speed.
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I believe that Goodwin will have better hands then Martin.
 
El Tejano said:
I believe that Goodwin will have better hands then Martin.
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That may be. I like Goodwin, I'm just not sure if the Texans would be willing to put Martin, or even Jean to be honest, on the backburner after 1 season. If Goodwin looks to be something special, the so be it but I don't think Goodwin would the #2 because of his size & that would still need to be addressed imo.
 
Tavon Austin is the most special talent matched to Texan 1st rd draft slot. I would now say with respect to my fellow peers, Texans F/O, coaches & players BPA @ position of need.

He is NFL ready. Impact player. Field stretcher. Dynamic playmaker. In short a shot in the offensive arm :texflag:
 
beerlover said:
Tavon Austin is the most special talent matched to Texan 1st rd draft slot. I would now say with respect to my fellow peers, Texans F/O, coaches & players BPA @ position of need.

He is NFL ready. Impact player. Field stretcher. Dynamic playmaker. In short a shot in the offensive arm :texflag:
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ZERO chance he makes it to our spot.

He's the darling of the combine thus far. Speed and hands, he won't be there for us.
 
tru80texan said:
I don't see Swope making it to the 4th round much less the late portion of the 4th. Like I said earlier, I think he helped his stock enough to get himself into the 3rd.

I do like Hunter though.
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Then I would trade back into the 3rd and pick him.

You could then get an OT like Fragel, ILB Klein/Swope in the 3rd. That's 3 potential impact players due to the depth of this draft.

Hunter/Swope WR problem taken care of

Brandon Williams NT in Rd.2

Klein- ILB taken care of

Fragel- OT taken care of, Fragel reminds me of a better version of Winston.


Would everybody be happy adding 5 guys that can play in one draft? A draft like this would rival the 2006 draft. IMHO
 
Overall, early in my draft view, I am much more encouraged by this group of WRs than I was with last year's group. Last year, I really tried to find players I thought would be great fits for the Texans, but there was always some this or that that didn't make various options good values for development at the top of the draft.

Ultimately, I try to find positives out of negatives, and if there is any positive about the disappointment of the end last season, I think it creates more urgency on the offensive side of the ball. And if as McNair has clearly said that they want more offensive playmakers, this might be a handy draft for that.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Welp, you can probably pencil Swope in as one of our mid to late round picks. A&M alum and buddies with Kubiaks kid = Shoe in the door



*edit* And NO, I'm not saying he will or will not be an option as a #2 WR. Didn't want to create a new thread
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Swope is going to go a lot higher than mid or late rounds. I think he's gone by the time the Texans get to their compensatory pick in the 3rd.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Wowsers! I had no idea Swope was that fast. A 4.34 is haulin ass. I have always kinda blown off the Combine field exercises (although, I still watch), but this kid had to have helped himself with his 40 time. No way he makes it past the 2nd day, imo. Props to the dude
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b0ng said:
Swope is going to go a lot higher than mid or late rounds. I think he's gone by the time the Texans get to their compensatory pick in the 3rd.
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Yezzir, I acknowledged I might've underestimated him earlier today. I wouldn't have a problem using a 3rd on him.

Plus, he has a cool name. :winky:
 
GP said:
ZERO chance he makes it to our spot.

He's the darling of the combine thus far. Speed and hands, he won't be there for us.
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There is always a chance. Combine is just one facet in the process. His size & weight will continue to hold his stock in check, there are also plenty of WR's with intriguing story's to tell. A real strong OT & DT class, not to mention teams covet & reach for QB' every year.

I've seen him mocked to Texans for months, now I see why.
 
If the Texans look at what the Patriots are doing then there would be plenty of cap space to add a legitimate number two wide receiver during free agency. It's on you, RICK SMITH! But he pays Matt Schaub more money than Tom Brady is now making. When he didn't even have to give Schaub that extension that fast. It should have waited until now but that's another topic for another day.

Unless we're talking about a can't miss "Randy Moss or Julio Jones" type guy, I find it far fetched that we're going to add an impact player right away at the position. We need somebody who can compliment Andre Johnson right now. Not two or three years down the road, which is a reasonable time frame it takes most rookie wideouts to develop into a legit two if not a pro bowler. By then Andre Johnson will already be washed up and near retirement.

Our window of opportunity to win a Super Bowl, at least with Andre Johnson still performing at an elite level, is likely 2013, 2014 and 2015. Three more seasons at best. I can't imagine he'll still be as good nearing 35 years old going into 2016 with 13 years of NFL experience under his belt.

We need a big free agent signing if we expect to find that immediate help at the number two wide receiver position. It sucks we failed to sign Reggie Wayne last off-season -- after Andre Johnson tried to recruit his fellow Miami Hurricane friend, but now we need to try and land the big name wideout in free agency this off-season. Whoever it may be.

Another rookie wide receiver isn't going to do "JACK" for us. And I'm only being nice when I say that. We need an established difference maker if we expect to compliment a still productive Andre Johnson.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
If the Texans look at what the Patriots are doing then there would be plenty of cap space to add a legitimate number two wide receiver during free agency. It's on you, RICK SMITH! But he pays Matt Schaub more money than Tom Brady is now making. When he didn't even have to give Schaub that extension that fast. It should have waited until now but that's another topic for another day.

Unless we're talking about a can't miss "Randy Moss or Julio Jones" type guy, I find it far fetched that we're going to add an impact player right away at the position. We need somebody who can compliment Andre Johnson right now. Not two or three years down the road, which is a reasonable time frame it takes most rookie wideouts to develop into a legit two if not a pro bowler. By then Andre Johnson will already be washed up and near retirement.

Our window of opportunity to win a Super Bowl, at least with Andre Johnson still performing at an elite level, is likely 2013, 2014 and 2015. Three more seasons at best. I can't imagine he'll still be as good nearing 35 years old going into 2016 with 13 years of NFL experience under his belt.

We need a big free agent signing if we expect to find that immediate help at the number two wide receiver position. It sucks we failed to sign Reggie Wayne last off-season -- after Andre Johnson tried to recruit his fellow Miami Hurricane friend, but now we need to try and land the big name wideout in free agency this off-season. Whoever it may be.

Another rookie wide receiver isn't going to do "JACK" for us. And I'm only being nice when I say that. We need an established difference maker if we expect to compliment a still productive Andre Johnson.
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Very solid post & agree with everything (would love to add a Greg Jennings) but its simply not true that a rookie WR can't do jack for this team @ a clear position of need like receiver. Austin, as discussed would impact this offense immediately with his speed alone. He can create separation underneath or over the top. Like his character too, nothing seems to big for the moment, just execute.
 
beerlover said:
Very solid post & agree with everything (would love to add a Greg Jennings) but its simply not true that a rookie WR can't do jack for this team @ a clear position of need like receiver. Austin, as discussed would impact this offense immediately with his speed alone. He can create separation underneath or over the top. Like his character too, nothing seems to big for the moment, just execute.
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I'm sure you can find a lot more instances of rookie wideouts having a big impact in their rookie season. I forgot to mention A.J. Green in my last post along with guys like Randy Moss and Julio Jones. I was just naming guys off the top of my head. But most of the time you're not going to find a wide receiver, especially late in the first round, who will come in and light the world on fire.

Dez Bryant from the Dallas Cowboys, for example, if you look at his production during his first three years in the NFL... That's usually the norm when it comes to a wide receiver developing in the pros. It's going to take two or three years before we know if we hit a home run or not with our rookie wideout. And like I said, by then we'll be in the market for a new number one because Andre Johnson will already be on the decline.

But my point being is that it generally takes two or three years for most rookie wide receivers to flourish into a good player. Gary Kubiak mentioned a few days ago that he believes players make their biggest leap from year one to year two, and he is hoping Keshawn Martin becomes a more consistent playmaker next season.

We already have too many young wide receivers on our roster. I know it's unfortunate DeVier Posey is injured at the moment, but I'd rather give Lestar Jean or Jeff Maehl a good and hard look going into next season.

If I were the Texans GM (and I know many of us would love to trade jobs with Rick Smith), I would release Kevin Walter and try to find the cap space to add a good and proven veteran wide receiver in free agency. I would even consider trading our 27th pick in round one if it could land us a good wide receiver via a trade.

I wouldn't even spend one draft pick on any wide receiver in this draft. In any round. Perhaps sign a couple undrafted rookie wideouts at best. To come to camp and compete with the other young guys we already have. And by that I'm only talking about 3-6 on the depth chart. We can probably keep a few on the practice squad.

We need immediate help right now at the number two wide receiver position to compliment Andre Johnson (while he's still a beast). If the Texans make the right moves this off-season we can definitely win the Super Bowl next year. But if they think they're going to land a difference maker at wide receiver with the 27th overall pick -- they're setting themselves up for disappointment yet again. We may as well just give the AFC to the Patriots right now...
 
I don't really see the Texans' guy here if they still want a WR, an "outside" guy who can truly "spread" the field and still be of sufficient size & physicality to be a downfield blocker as Kubiak expects his WRs to be in his offense. Two early favs were Clemson's DeAndre Hopkins & Baylor's Terrance Williams, but both were unable to crack 4.5, so that's an issue for a receiver you want to possess the kind of long-speed needed to attract over-top coverage from a safety for assisting the corner on deep routes.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
We need a big free agent signing if we expect to find that immediate help at the number two wide receiver position. It sucks we failed to sign Reggie Wayne last off-season -- after Andre Johnson tried to recruit his fellow Miami Hurricane friend, but now we need to try and land the big name wideout in free agency this off-season. Whoever it may be.
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Reggie Wayne was never on the market.
The Colts drafted Reggie Wayne in the first round of the 2001 NFL Draft. After an 11-year career, it appeared that Wayne would be hawking his wares eleswhere in free agency. Turns out, he's not leaving Indianapolis: after being without a team for roughly five hours, he signed a three-year contract with the Colts Tuesday night, ESPN's Adam Schefter reported via Twitter.
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He was never really a FA. You can't really say "we failed" when he was never really available.
 
thunderkyss said:
Serious Question. Has OD ever performed at Shannon Sharpe's level? I mean SS is a HOFer
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Eh, maybe 2008 and this season going on receptions/yards but they don't compare to Sharpe's best seasons, just his good ones. He went over 1k a few times (which OD never did) and routinely found the endzone too which of course is something we kind of wish we had around here. Seemed a magnet for touchdowns back then.
 
VTexan said:
Mike Wallace would be an amazing compliment. Then I remember Matt Schaub probably can't out throw him.
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While I highly doubt it can happen due to cap and blah, I don't think we should look at a speed receiver and only think 'Schaub can't get it to him' (which he probably can't, heh). But guys like Wallace are playmakers who can take that slant and make 5 yards into 10 yards. They can get open quicker on these short/intermediate patterns meaning Schaub could get the ball out that much quicker and do something after the catch. That is something that has been severely lacking.
 
deucetx said:
Eh, maybe 2008 and this season going on receptions/yards but they don't compare to Sharpe's best seasons, just his good ones. He went over 1k a few times (which OD never did) and routinely found the endzone too which of course is something we kind of wish we had around here. Seemed a magnet for touchdowns back then.
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While OD has some YAC capability, he's nothing compared to Sharpe. That man had burst & speed & strength. He would score from 25 & 30 yards out on the regular. OD isn't in that class.


In OD's defense, nobody is. Not even Gronk or Jimmy Graham.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
I'm sure you can find a lot more instances of rookie wideouts having a big impact in their rookie season. I forgot to mention A.J. Green in my last post along with guys like Randy Moss and Julio Jones. I was just naming guys off the top of my head. But most of the time you're not going to find a wide receiver, especially late in the first round, who will come in and light the world on fire.

Dez Bryant from the Dallas Cowboys, for example, if you look at his production during his first three years in the NFL... That's usually the norm when it comes to a wide receiver developing in the pros. It's going to take two or three years before we know if we hit a home run or not with our rookie wideout. And like I said, by then we'll be in the market for a new number one because Andre Johnson will already be on the decline.

But my point being is that it generally takes two or three years for most rookie wide receivers to flourish into a good player. Gary Kubiak mentioned a few days ago that he believes players make their biggest leap from year one to year two, and he is hoping Keshawn Martin becomes a more consistent playmaker next season.

We already have too many young wide receivers on our roster. I know it's unfortunate DeVier Posey is injured at the moment, but I'd rather give Lestar Jean or Jeff Maehl a good and hard look going into next season.

If I were the Texans GM (and I know many of us would love to trade jobs with Rick Smith), I would release Kevin Walter and try to find the cap space to add a good and proven veteran wide receiver in free agency. I would even consider trading our 27th pick in round one if it could land us a good wide receiver via a trade.

I wouldn't even spend one draft pick on any wide receiver in this draft. In any round. Perhaps sign a couple undrafted rookie wideouts at best. To come to camp and compete with the other young guys we already have. And by that I'm only talking about 3-6 on the depth chart. We can probably keep a few on the practice squad.

We need immediate help right now at the number two wide receiver position to compliment Andre Johnson (while he's still a beast). If the Texans make the right moves this off-season we can definitely win the Super Bowl next year. But if they think they're going to land a difference maker at wide receiver with the 27th overall pick -- they're setting themselves up for disappointment yet again. We may as well just give the AFC to the Patriots right now...
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See this is where we disagree, Rodgers/Hunter/Hopkins would be better than any WR on the roster excluding AJ.

Also you are trying to say that Posey/Matin/Jean are better than the trio I listed above?

Matin is a 4/5th WR/KR-PR on a good team. He has his place on the team. Posey probably wont play and Jean is very overrated on this MB. He's proven nothing and has trouble getting separation. I think the current WR corps is young, but there isn't a difference maker in the bunch.

I'm for drafting 2 WR's Hunter/Swope in rds 1-4. This will help provide competition within the WR group and the young guys can learn the tricks of the trade from AJ. When is the last time the Texans had a legitimate threat at WR2? It's time to fix that.

I see Hunter/Rodgers/Hopkins as potential difference makers next yr. You dont?

PS, as long as the Texans have Schaub and the Pats have Brady the Texans will always be at a disadvantage.
 
If drafting two WRs, I'd like Rogers and Stedman Bailey for slot; despite his size he can play outside also.
 
badboy said:
If drafting two WRs, I'd like Rogers and Stedman Bailey for slot; despite his size he can play outside also.
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This is also why I suggested drafting Swope.

If a WR is picked in rd 1 would you pick Bailey/Swope type in Rd 3?
 
steelbtexan said:
You're that high on A.J. Klein? Me too, How high do you think Klien goes? Comp 3rd IMHO

I do like Jake Knott in the 4-5th too.
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Followed Klein all year but kept putting others before him. Hard to ignore his production; he's rated 5th
round #166 but should be there in our 4th. Excellent value and possible starter. OLB is what is giving me trouble
 
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