Texans #2 WR position

[deucetx]

Cody's cap number in 2012 was $3 million not $1.5. And you misconstrued pretty much every other number I posted. Lestar Jean and his potential have accumulated 6 receptions in 2 years. There's not a doubt in my mind that Kubiak would keep Walter over Jean if the number is close.

And that is the problem and what tru80 is most likely trying to point out. A head coach must make this tough decision and sometimes step outside of his safety box, the status quo, to do something to take his team to another level. Hanging onto Walter takes away snaps and time from the younger receivers. Yeah, Jean barely did much in receiving. He also barely saw the field (105 passing plays to be exact, lowest of all WR's). Who do you think also gets majority snaps in practice? Won't be the young guys if they are barely seeing the field in the game.

If he continues to hold onto Walter he either:

A. Needs to push him down the depth chart and keep him there. In other words, resist the temptation to not turn to him and leaving younger players standing and not engaged.

B. Continues with the status quo where we get a #2 who needs to be schemed to get open too often, can't get even average YAC, and leaves us with only one viable threat from 15+ yards.

The WR position needs to be developed and he has not shown the ability to see that it gets done with Walter around. Will he if he finally pushes the guy to where he should be as a #3 or (in my real opinion) #4? We can't say for certain but past experience tells us no though he seemed to come close toward the end of the season with Posey. Then he turned around and reverted back to Walter in the playoffs who had the worst receiving numbers of everyone during that time. Well, until he realized he needed to spread the field against the Pats and put Posey in and what happens? We get down the field.

Either way this position actually needs to start moving forward except for churning in the mud like it continues to do.

 

[thunderkyss]

If the Texans used an NT in their nickle and dime sets I could see NT being a bigger need, but we don't, and I can't imagine that they think it's 1st round need unless there's a guy there they thought wouldn't be available.

That's a big catch 22. I'm not a big proponent of using a high draft pick (1-3 rounds) on a NT. But if we had a better NT (Ngata, Raji, Wilfork) he'd be on the field on 3rd down. That would allow us to cut Antonio Smith if you're inclined to do so (I'm not, he's had helluvah years back to back & if not for Jj Watt, there'd be more talk about him).

But, the point is we don't use our NT in passing situations because we have Antonio Smith & Shuan Cody. If we had a Ngata type, Smith's snaps would be reduced as he'd probably rotate in & out.

 

[badboy]

One thing is certain, the prospective WR#2 won't ever be Posey. I love his upside and work ethic, but the fact that he wore patella braces throughout college was a sign that his Achilles injury was probably destined.

So where do we draft a receiver? Well, we also need a nose tackle, since Cody will either be cut or won't be in shape by preseason. Since the loss of Posey has only been an opportunity cost, the receiving talent has not regressed. But losing Cody will pose regression, so I think NT will be #1, and WR #2.

Although I agree with you & Wolfe about NT (see my precombine mock), I think it is highly possible, Ric Smith will go for a cheap vet in free agency. I am focusing on Barwin negotiations as off season progresses. If they have not completed a deal or moved on (ala Mario Williams) by draft, I could see another OLB in round one.

To your question on WR, I go in third round as my eliminating roster income allows us to go after a prime WR2 FA.

 

[badboy]

From where is that info coming from? Walter had $11 million in guaranteed money. That was in a $5 million bonus and the first 2 seasons salaries ($6 million total). The salaries have been received, but that bonus didn't hit the cap in one year. There would be $2 million in dead money if Walter is released. If Walter is cut, it's a savings of $1.5 million.

If Walter again agrees to a salary reduction to $2 million,his cap number shrinks to $3 million. Thus, there would only be a $1 million difference in keeping Walter. If that's the case, the Texans would likely keep him. Here's what Kubiak had to say about Walter when he signed the contract:

Even if the Texans sign a FA WR and draft another WR early, Walter likely stays. They won't keep a Lestar Jean over Walter for a cap savings of $500K. And it's very unlikely that Posey makes it on the field in 2013. Even as a 4th WR, I think Kubiak will keep Walter.

I got it from here : http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/

He has received his guaranteed money of $11m: 2010 $3m base + $1m roster; 2011 same ($4m); 2012 reduced salary to $2m + $1m roster or total $11m guaranteed & paid. His roster bonus in '13 &'14 should not be counted against cap imo as not guaranteed or upfront bonus. I don't think it would be dead money as he had to make roster to receive.

After 76 pointed out site does say $5m roster earned year one, I stand corrected.

 

[badboy]

Cody's cap number in 2012 was $3 million not $1.5. And you misconstrued pretty much every other number I posted. Lestar Jean and his potential have accumulated 6 receptions in 2 years. There's not a doubt in my mind that Kubiak would keep Walter over Jean if the number is close.

I'm not arguing for Jean or over Walter but Lestar's 6 catches were for 151 yds & 25.2 per. That + his age may give him an edge, especially if Smith gets a WR2 vet.

 

[76Texan]

I got it from here : http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/

He has received his guaranteed money of $11m: 2010 $3m base + $1m roster; 2011 same ($4m); 2012 reduced salary to $2m + $1m roster or total $11m guaranteed & paid. His roster bonus in '13 &'14 should not be counted against cap imo as not guaranteed or upfront bonus. I don't think it would be dead money as he had to make roster to receive.

BB, it reads "First year roster bonus $5M".

It looks to me he already got that $5M in his pocket; therefore, there will be $2M in dead money if Walter is cut.

 

[tru80texan]

Cody's cap number in 2012 was $3 million not $1.5. And you misconstrued pretty much every other number I posted. Lestar Jean and his potential have accumulated 6 receptions in 2 years. There's not a doubt in my mind that Kubiak would keep Walter over Jean if the number is close.

I don't think I misconstrued anything, I simply stated, as did you, that cutting Walter leads to some savings regardless of if its perceived as small or large it is ultimately money saved that could be easily used to UPGRADE the team as opposed to remaining status quo. Status quo is obviously not progression for a position that has needed an infusion of youth & potential for quite some time. Walter is not the answer nor does he seem to have much more to offer or progress, so, imo, its simply time to take the savings his salary has to offer & allow the younger wr's a TRUE opportunity to get on the field & progress as opposed to being stuck behind a wr who is on the decline.

As far as Jean, I think your portrayal of his stats & potential is quite a bit skewed & unfair to be frank because as most of us know he was placed on the IR for his entire rookie season & he suffered a knee injury in his 2nd season that obviously contributed to his lack of production due to recovery. Omitting those factors & acting as if they don't matter or worth noting hardly paints an accurate or true picture of what Jean is potentially capable of. It's not as if he played & simply disappeared in games similar to Walter is known for. Once again, a player needs an opportunity to prove worth & that is something that is limited w/ Walter in the way. Jean, Martin, & Posey have yet be given that luxury & I would hope, I say that w/ some doubt, that Kubiak would be smart enough keep young cheap potential as opposed to an overpaid vet who is past prime. "Hope" is the key word.

Side note, I was referring to Cody's salary & not his cap number. I was simply showing that a starting players salary could be easily paid for w/ the savings the Texans could be getting by cutting Walter. It's seems to be a small amount, but once again every penny counts when you are trying to progress as a team imo.

 

[tru80texan]

I got it from here : http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/

He has received his guaranteed money of $11m: 2010 $3m base + $1m roster; 2011 same ($4m); 2012 reduced salary to $2m + $1m roster or total $11m guaranteed & paid. His roster bonus in '13 &'14 should not be counted against cap imo as not guaranteed or upfront bonus. I don't think it would be dead money as he had to make roster to receive.

I have read & my understanding is that Walter could be cut this season withOUT any hit to the salary cap. I don't have a link & would need to research it again, but that was my belief & it somewhat seems that is yours as well if I'm understanding your post correctly. Don't want to misconstrued anything. LOL! JK. Honestly, I think any savings is better then retaining Walter & believe it is simply time to move on.

 

[badboy]

BB, it reads "First year roster bonus $5M".

It looks to me he already got that $5M in his pocket; therefore, there will be $2M in dead money if Walter is cut.

Looks like I'm wrong but as site shows it as a roster & prorated I thought it had to be paid each year if he made team. It does say "first year" so he evidently got it already.

 

[badboy]

I have read & my understanding is that Walter could be cut this season withOUT any hit to the salary cap. I don't have a link & would need to research it again, but that was my belief & it somewhat seems that is yours as well if I'm understanding your post correctly. Don't want to misconstrued anything. LOL! JK. Honestly, I think any savings is better then retaining Walter & believe it is simply time to move on.

Go to link posted http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/


and look lower left hand margin and it states his roster bonus of $5m being paid and 2012 salary reduction. This is what Lucky & I are discussing. I thought if a player got an upfront roster bonus it could not be prorated. As his seems to be prorated, it must work as does a regular signing bonus. Not sure why Texans differentiated it as roster rather than signing.

 

[tru80texan]

Go to link posted http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/


and look lower left hand margin and it states his roster bonus of $5m being paid and 2012 salary reduction. This is what Lucky & I are discussing. I thought if a player got an upfront roster bonus it could not be prorated. As his seems to be prorated, it must work as does a regular signing bonus. Not sure why Texans differentiated it as roster rather than signing.

Ok. I see it. Appreciate the info from you & 76, but I still say its time to move on. Take the money & run imo.

 

[bobbeaux]

not sure about walter leaving, but i definitely think he's getting paid too much, imo.

a fa being left out of the discussion is dominic hixon . . . i like him and his production a lot better than barden . . . he starts when nicks is out of the lineup . . . he's had some injury issues, but he has good size/speed and has return game experience . . . i'd be surprised if he gets out of our price range . . .

as far as the draft, i'm still leaning ilb, wr, nt, s and that's by our picks, not by rounds . . . if the quality at ilb isn't there at our #1, but safety is i'd go s, wr, ilb, nt . . . i believe there will be quality nt's to rotate in with campbell in the 3rd . . .

 

[tru80texan]

not sure about walter leaving, but i definitely think he's getting paid too much, imo.

a fa being left out of the discussion is dominic hixon . . . i like him and his production a lot better than barden . . . he starts when nicks is out of the lineup . . . he's had some injury issues, but he has good size/speed and has return game experience . . . i'd be surprised if he gets out of our price range . . .

as far as the draft, i'm still leaning ilb, wr, nt, s and that's by our picks, not by rounds . . . if the quality at ilb isn't there at our #1, but safety is i'd go s, wr, ilb, nt . . . i believe there will be quality nt's to rotate in with campbell in the 3rd . . .

My understanding is the Giants are going to try & keep Hixon. He has a little bit of an injury history, but he does seem to have some potential. I still Luke Barden's upside because of his size & speed.

I would throw OLB in your mix of wants/needs depending on which position they decide to play Reed at. I'm truly hoping Quin is re-signed so that S doesn't become a pressing need next season. I kinda like Pleasant & would like to see what he is capable of over Demps & Keo.

 

[Insideop]

not sure about walter leaving, but i definitely think he's getting paid too much, imo.

a fa being left out of the discussion is dominic hixon . . . i like him and his production a lot better than barden . . . he starts when nicks is out of the lineup . . . he's had some injury issues, but he has good size/speed and has return game experience . . . i'd be surprised if he gets out of our price range . . .

as far as the draft, i'm still leaning ilb, wr, nt, s and that's by our picks, not by rounds . . . if the quality at ilb isn't there at our #1, but safety is i'd go s, wr, ilb, nt . . . i believe there will be quality nt's to rotate in with campbell in the 3rd . . .

I have a hunch that if Keenan Allen is still on the board at #27 the Texans will take him. If he's not there I think they go either ILB or OLB, depending on the Barwin situation.

 

[bobbeaux]

My understanding is the Giants are going to try & keep Hixon. He has a little bit of an injury history, but he does seem to have some potential. I still Luke Barden's upside because of his size & speed.

I would throw OLB in your mix of wants/needs depending on which position they decide to play Reed at. I'm truly hoping Quin is re-signed so that S doesn't become a pressing need next season. I kinda like Pleasant & would like to see what he is capable of over Demps & Keo.

i want quin back too, but at our price and we need depth there anyway . . . quin could possibly go back to cb too . . . a lot rides on what we do in fa especially with our own as to what we should do in the draft . . . but, i wouldn't use our 1st rounder on a wr in this draft as i don't believe we would get any greater value than we could get with our 2nd . . . i could be wrong and someone drop, but i doubt it and still feel we'd be better off waiting . . . even with cushing back, i feel ilb is our greatest need and there are some solid ones to be had . . . if the top 3 are gone, there are some very solid safeties available as well . . . if we don't keep barwin, that should give us room for his replacement in fa too . . .

 

[BullBlitz]

Why are people so afraid of a rookie wr? I mean torrey smith has been making big plays since he's come into the league. He may only catch 50 balls or so, but they eat up a lot of real estate. There will be a wr in the first staring them in the face they should take. They can help themselves by also upgrading the te position since schaub like to throw to that guy a lot. Daniels kills the offense as much as not having a #2 cuz he can't get verticle against lbs any,ore.

We are only afraid of rookie WRs that we draft. We haven't drafted one that has had an impact in 10 YEARS.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

We are only afraid of rookie WRs that we draft. We haven't drafted one that has had an impact in 10 YEARS.

Specifically for rookies that's not Texans thing but an NFL thing, this year there were only four with 50 or more catches (interesting that three were in the AFC south). Even if drafting the right one, few come and impactful. just takes a couple of years in most cases.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receptions

link in case i miss counted

 

[tru80texan]

Specifically for rookies that's not Texans thing but an NFL thing, this year there were only four with 50 or more catches (interesting that three were in the AFC south). Even if drafting the right one, few come and impactful. just takes a couple of years in most cases.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receptions

link in case i miss counted

I realize 50 receptions may not seem like a lot to some, but to me that is more then Walter contributed & thus would be quite an impact for the Texans. Especially if you take into account the yards & TD's that were accumulated w/ those receptions for some of those rookies.

My definition of "impact" is any player who can surpass Walter's production in year 1, which shouldn't be that difficult considering the following rookie wr's were all capable of doing that & have upside & potential to only get better: K. Wright, J. Blackmon, TY Hilton, Josh Gordon, Chris Givens, Michael Floyd, & one TE in Dwayne Allen all outperformed Walter. Some could easily throw Rod Streater in there as well, despite having 2 less receptions then Walter he still surpassed him in yards & TD's. Once all the names are considered you then have to figure in the fact that ALL of them surpassed Walter's production as #2 & most of them as #3 WR's.

For what we need...I think a rookie could & would do fine if given the opportunity because its obvious that our current #2 wr has not set any unattainable standards. Multiple rookies outperformed him this year & some did it while playing in lesser roles as #3 WR's for their offenses. We just need improvement, as far as production, w/ potential for the future as opposed to taking the NFL by storm year 1 imo.

 

[thunderkyss]

I realize 50 receptions may not seem like a lot to some, but to me that is more then Walter contributed & thus would be quite an impact for the Texans. Especially if you take into account the yards & TD's that were accumulated w/ those receptions for some of those rookies.

My definition of "impact" is any player who can surpass Walter's production in year 1...

With the way our offense runs, he'd have to be a really special guy for Schaub to even target him as much as he targets Walter. We've got several options, where many other teams who grab these 1st round WRs don't.

With that in mind, I don't care if he matches or surpasses Walter's production in yards or catches. I'd be happy with 20 to 30 catches with a 14+ yard average. The biggest difference between Torrey Smith & Kevin Walter is that Smith has 14+ yard catches (like a WR) where Walter has numbers that are more like a catching TEs. IMO, Harvin has numbers similar to Walter's, but Harvin is a threat with the ball in his hands where Walter is not.

 

[BullBlitz]

Specifically for rookies that's not Texans thing but an NFL thing, this year there were only four with 50 or more catches (interesting that three were in the AFC south). Even if drafting the right one, few come and impactful. just takes a couple of years in most cases.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receptions

link in case i miss counted

Yes, I agree. There are relatively few instances in which it pays to use a very high draft pick on a WR. I prefer the strategy of bringing in guys who have shown that they can play in the league.

As such, I would consider signing Harvin this year.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

I realize 50 receptions may not seem like a lot to some, but to me that is more then Walter contributed & thus would be quite an impact for the Texans. Especially if you take into account the yards & TD's that were accumulated w/ those receptions for some of those rookies.

My definition of "impact" is any player who can surpass Walter's production in year 1, which shouldn't be that difficult considering the following rookie wr's were all capable of doing that & have upside & potential to only get better: K. Wright, J. Blackmon, TY Hilton, Josh Gordon, Chris Givens, Michael Floyd, & one TE in Dwayne Allen all outperformed Walter. Some could easily throw Rod Streater in there as well, despite having 2 less receptions then Walter he still surpassed him in yards & TD's. Once all the names are considered you then have to figure in the fact that ALL of them surpassed Walter's production as #2 & most of them as #3 WR's.

For what we need...I think a rookie could & would do fine if given the opportunity because its obvious that our current #2 wr has not set any unattainable standards. Multiple rookies outperformed him this year & some did it while playing in lesser roles as #3 WR's for their offenses. We just need improvement, as far as production, w/ potential for the future as opposed to taking the NFL by storm year 1 imo.

I would like to think impact is more than be better than Kevin walter. as a pass catcher nearly anyone who gets the number of snaps as Kevin has can drop 40 catch and 500 yards. as you pointed out several rookies who were technically WR3s matched that 'prodcution. the texans need players who can cut into Andre's production because they offer something that makes the defense accountable to them.

 

[tru80texan]

I would like to think impact is more than be better than Kevin walter. as a pass catcher nearly anyone who gets the number of snaps as Kevin has can drop 40 catch and 500 yards. as you pointed out several rookies who were technically WR3s matched that 'prodcution. the texans need players who can cut into Andre's production because they offer something that makes the defense accountable to them.

I kinda of relate this to the "baby steps" approach that Kubiak & his FO choose to utilize to show progress of any kind. We all have heard how Kubiak thinks Walter is an asset to the offense & considering he has refused to replace him or address the position adequately we can only assume any player that can produce MORE then Walter would most definitely have an impact on the Texans offense imo. I realize the bar isn't set high & "impact" is normally used for greater accomplishments, but this is the Texans led by kubiak. Small steps are glorified in Houston & 60+ receptions w/ 600+ yards would be great in year 1 IF that player shows promise to only get better. Getting Andre's eventual replacement is key, but as you mentioned we won't know that about a player until probably year 2 or 3. Until then we would need them to step in yr 1 & only produce better then Walter has, which shouldn't be difficult, & that would make an "impact" on the Texans imo.

As far as Harvin, the Texans can't afford him nor have they shown the willingness to deal w/ players whom others have deemed headaches. Can't see it happening & I'm not sure if I would want it to considering Harvin's past run ins w/ his organization & his injuries. There are options w/ less baggage imo.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Not only does it take most rookie WRs (exception with some very high 1st round picks) a couple of years to truly develop, but Kubiak expects his WRs to be able to block to a decent extent, something that doesn't seem to be in many WRs' repertoires especially coming right out of college..........that's what's kept Walter here so long.......and may just very well keep him here for another season.

 

[BullBlitz]

As far as Harvin, the Texans can't afford him nor have they shown the willingness to deal w/ players whom others have deemed headaches. Can't see it happening & I'm not sure if I would want it to considering Harvin's past run ins w/ his organization & his injuries. There are options w/ less baggage imo.

....can't afford...willingness to deal with players....baggage....

Yes, same story year after year. The reason they can never afford anything is because they don't spend their money wisely.

 

[thunderkyss]

I kinda of relate this to the "baby steps" approach that Kubiak & his FO choose to utilize to show progress of any kind. We all have heard how Kubiak thinks Walter is an asset to the offense & considering he has refused to replace him or address the position adequately

You only get so many first round draft picks, and so many FA dollars. Kubiak definitely spent those resources to improve the defense. Seeing how the defense has ranked in the lower third of the league for the most part & the offense has been consistently in the upper third, it kinda makes sense.

In other words, I don't think they "refused" or "failed" to address the position "adequately"

Had you said they've done a piss poor job at developing WR talent, I'd agree with you 100%. Kubiak, Dennison, & Larry Kirksey (our WR coach) have done a bad job identifying talented players with high football character in the later rounds or in Free Agency.

 

[tru80texan]

Not only does it take most rookie WRs (exception with some very high 1st round picks) a couple of years to truly develop, but Kubiak expects his WRs to be able to block to a decent extent, something that doesn't seem to be in many WRs' repertoires especially coming right out of college..........that's what's kept Walter here so long.......and may just very well keep him here for another season.

That has to be the most overblown exaggeration of any one ability to justify Walter. I have yet to see ANY of the Texans WR's criticised by anyone for being just piss poor blockers. It's never been noticeable by watching the game, which I normally do w/ most at least twice, nor has it ever been emphasized by any Texan coach or member of the media on how all the other wr's are just so lacking in the blocking dept that none can compare to Walter's out of this world blocking. Needless to say, Walter may be a good blocker but he doesn't outshine the others to a noticeable degree imo. As I said earlier, its an exaggeration to justify one unproductive player who doesn't deserve to be a starter. If blocking is a wr's best asset, that is a problem regardless of someone tries to.spin it. I am just glad McNair is FINALLY making it known that he believes a playmaker is needed, not just a blocker.

Too bad the HC is once again needing to be guided by the owner on what is needed to improve this team, but that's for another thread.

 

[bobbeaux]

I have a hunch that if Keenan Allen is still on the board at #27 the Texans will take him. If he's not there I think they go either ILB or OLB, depending on the Barwin situation.

i'd rather they target a robert woods - usc, justin hunter - tenn or terrance williams - baylor in the 2nd . . .

 

[tru80texan]

You only get so many first round draft picks, and so many FA dollars. Kubiak definitely spent those resources to improve the defense. Seeing how the defense has ranked in the lower third of the league for the most part & the offense has been consistently in the upper third, it kinda makes sense.

In other words, I don't think they "refused" or "failed" to address the position "adequately"

Had you said they've done a piss poor job at developing WR talent, I'd agree with you 100%. Kubiak, Dennison, & Larry Kirksey (our WR coach) have done a bad job identifying talented players with high football character in the later rounds or in Free Agency.

I think BullBlitz answered your dilemma best in the post of above yours. Money not spent wisely. Re-signing Walter & Jacoby would be great indicators of that for starters.

You say the money has been spent to rebuild the defense, but then you have to take into account that Reed, Barwin, Cushing, Watt, Kareem, & Quin were all playing under rookie contracts & starters. Rookie contracts are hardly the most expensive & considering more then half of the starting defense was or is playing under rookie contracts you would think there should be money to spare. That should be a lot of savings but as we all know the Texans have had salary cap issues & still do to some degree. So money not being spent wisely could very easily sum up why other positions have been neglected along the way & once again it all goes back to some degree, Smith is not in the clear on this one, to the HC who has his hands in it all.

 

[thunderkyss]

As I said earlier, its an exaggeration to justify one unproductive player who doesn't deserve to be a starter. If blocking is a wr's best asset, that is a problem regardless of someone tries to.spin it. I am just glad McNair is FINALLY making it known that he believes a playmaker is needed, not just a blocker.

Where Walter excels over the other WRs is on the edges of the OL. Like a TE who traps a DE inside, or delivers a wham block to an unsuspecting DT/LB coming up the middle.

Jacoby was a better blocker on the edge, I think, because he'd pull the DB away from the LOS, the safety would have to pay attention to him, & Jacoby would block the CB on him allowing Foster to break a 30 yard run & Foster could use him to set up the safety.

Andre sucks (at blocking, he was particularly bad against New England in the divisional round).

Walter is a flex player, imo, WR/TE. He's a better Owen Daniels, since OD can't block worth a sht... not that Walter could block a DE head up.

Too bad the HC is once again needing to be guided by the owner on what is needed to improve this team, but that's for another thread.

 

[infantrycak]

Andre sucks (at blocking, he was particularly bad against New England in the divisional round).

OK, go to the optometrist or ophthalmologist because you are blind if you think AJ sucks at blocking.

 

[tru80texan]

OK, go to the optometrist or ophthalmologist because you are blind if you think AJ sucks at blocking.

Kinda let that go because I've already said I have yet to see ANY Texans WR critisized for poor blocking...Andre included. Andre has very few holes in his game imo. Letting an easy pass hit the ground on occasion is probably his lone fault & is erased w/ all the other good aspects of his game...including his blocking imo.

 

[badboy]

I realize 50 receptions may not seem like a lot to some, but to me that is more then Walter contributed & thus would be quite an impact for the Texans. Especially if you take into account the yards & TD's that were accumulated w/ those receptions for some of those rookies.

My definition of "impact" is any player who can surpass Walter's production in year 1, which shouldn't be that difficult considering the following rookie wr's were all capable of doing that & have upside & potential to only get better: K. Wright, J. Blackmon, TY Hilton, Josh Gordon, Chris Givens, Michael Floyd, & one TE in Dwayne Allen all outperformed Walter. Some could easily throw Rod Streater in there as well, despite having 2 less receptions then Walter he still surpassed him in yards & TD's. Once all the names are considered you then have to figure in the fact that ALL of them surpassed Walter's production as #2 & most of them as #3 WR's.

For what we need...I think a rookie could & would do fine if given the opportunity because its obvious that our current #2 wr has not set any unattainable standards. Multiple rookies outperformed him this year & some did it while playing in lesser roles as #3 WR's for their offenses. We just need improvement, as far as production, w/ potential for the future as opposed to taking the NFL by storm year 1 imo.

This is my thought on my pre-combine mock with Kawaan Short replacing Smith and Cody being replaced by Williams. Even if they just perform status quo will be cheaper and younger.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

That has to be the most overblown exaggeration of any one ability to justify Walter. I have yet to see ANY of the Texans WR's criticised by anyone for being just piss poor blockers. It's never been noticeable by watching the game, which I normally do w/ most at least twice, nor has it ever been emphasized by any Texan coach or member of the media on how all the other wr's are just so lacking in the blocking dept that none can compare to Walter's out of this world blocking. Needless to say, Walter may be a good blocker but he doesn't outshine the others to a noticeable degree imo. As I said earlier, its an exaggeration to justify one unproductive player who doesn't deserve to be a starter. If blocking is a wr's best asset, that is a problem regardless of someone tries to.spin it. I am just glad McNair is FINALLY making it known that he believes a playmaker is needed, not just a blocker.

Too bad the HC is once again needing to be guided by the owner on what is needed to improve this team, but that's for another thread.

I'd invite you to back off of me. This is not my opinion........I was simply relating that this is what the Texans have been spouting all along to justify Walter's existence..........not a reason that I share as legitimate for the Texans having made that decision.

 

[steelbtexan]

I think BullBlitz answered your dilemma best in the post of above yours. Money not spent wisely. Re-signing Walter & Jacoby would be great indicators of that for starters.

You say the money has been spent to rebuild the defense, but then you have to take into account that Reed, Barwin, Cushing, Watt, Kareem, & Quin were all playing under rookie contracts & starters. Rookie contracts are hardly the most expensive & considering more then half of the starting defense was or is playing under rookie contracts you would think there should be money to spare. That should be a lot of savings but as we all know the Texans have had salary cap issues & still do to some degree. So money not being spent wisely could very easily sum up why other positions have been neglected along the way & once again it all goes back to some degree, Smith is not in the clear on this one, to the HC who has his hands in it all.

What is Smith/Olson's job and who is screwing up the cap Yr after Yr?

 

[thunderkyss]

What is Smith/Olson's job and who is screwing up the cap Yr after Yr?

whoever it is, they're cheap bastards.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'd invite you to back off of me. This is not my opinion........I was simply relating that this is what the Texans have been spouting all along to justify Walter's existence..........not a reason that I share as legitimate for the Texans having made that decision.

The Texans dont seem to have many legitimate answers for alot of things they do.

Walter/4 yrs of Schaub with a wackedout bonus structure/The bonus structure of Foster etc.... with a known heart problem.

Makes you wonder who's calling the shots in the FO and what they were thinking/drinking.

 

[Uncle Rico]

offer a 2nd rounder for percy harvin. problem solved.

 

[steelbtexan]

offer a 2nd rounder for percy harvin. problem solved.

+ 10 mil, with a fully torn ankle ligament?


PASS

 

[tru80texan]

I'd invite you to back off of me. This is not my opinion........I was simply relating that this is what the Texans have been spouting all along to justify Walter's existence..........not a reason that I share as legitimate for the Texans having made that decision.

Just to be clear, this has nothing to do w/ you personally. My response concerning the SUBJECT of WALTER would've be the same regardless of who posted it. I think it's a BS justification for an unproductive player. Bottom line. So please don't assume that I'm some how targeting or on you because that is far from the truth.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Just to be clear, this has nothing to do w/ you personally. My response concerning the SUBJECT of WALTER would've be the same regardless of who posted it. I think it's a BS justification for an unproductive player. Bottom line. So please don't assume that I'm some how targeting or on you because that is far from the truth.

 

[tru80texan]

What is Smith/Olson's job and who is screwing up the cap Yr after Yr?

Oh I believe Smith is just as much at fault, if not slightly more, then kubiak but kubiak is the one who chooses the players that he wants to obtain or retain & if money is being wasted on ineffective & unproductive players then that's just as much on kubiak IMO. Kubiak simply ok'ing the re-signing Walter & Jacoby puts him at fault to some degree because neither one of them were a legitimate #2 WR nor did they improve the WR position. That was a waste of money once you consider at one point that it costed the Texans 6.5-7M in salary. Smith may have overpaid them, but Kubiak wanted them. It goes hand in hand IMO.

 

[tru80texan]

:

 

[Brisco_County]

I just spoke to a co-worker whose son plays for Lousianana Tech. He said that Quinton Patton has some anger issues that he needs to iron out when he goes pro.

 

[steelbtexan]

I just spoke to a co-worker whose son plays for Lousianana Tech. He said that Quinton Patton has some anger issues that he needs to iron out when he goes pro.

He's probably angry that with his talent he ended up having to go to La. Tech LOL

 

[tru80texan]

I just spoke to a co-worker whose son plays for Lousianana Tech. He said that Quinton Patton has some anger issues that he needs to iron out when he goes pro.

I don't mind a little fire in a player. Our offense could use a player that gets a little fired up as long as it doesn't cost the team. Hopefully that's a lesson he learns quickly, but a little attitude never hurts imo.

 

[Texn4life]

I just spoke to a co-worker whose son plays for Lousianana Tech. He said that Quinton Patton has some anger issues that he needs to iron out when he goes pro.

I said in a previous post I believe in this thread that you can tell he plays with an edge and a chip on his shoulder. Some of the greatest receivers in the game are hot heads so that doesn't concern me. We have a good mix of veterans and young guys so a guy like Andre would be able to keep him under wraps. He hasn't gotten in any off field trouble from what I know and that's all that matters to me. Teams do so much digging when evaluating a player so if he's that much of a problem then reports will come out as draft day approaches. He's probably the one receiver I'd want in this draft outside of Patterson so I'd be happy if his name is called when we pick.

 

[leebigeztx]

I don't care what kind of supposed pressure the fan base implies,you have to build a team capable of long term success. The foundation is good,but can get better and that includes the wr opposite of andre and his successor. I mean we all know how pathetic the offense is minus andre either by injury,double team,or elite corner. They need a guy,a young guy capable of being a top target wthin 2 or 3 yrs as andre fades. That guy can get training this year whether its hunter,williams,or some other guy. For the fan base who wants to pass because of the duration it might or might not take,then that's your choice. Maybe if kubiak and smith had desperation like some think,then maybe they would risk losing cushing to pay this all out wr who was probably drafted where the texans are drafting now. Of the top wrs is the game now,how many were drafted high? In fact,the top free agents wrs this year none were high picks. Jennings,bowe,wallace,nicks, not 1. So why the lack of patience by the fanbase?

 

[tru80texan]

I don't care what kind of supposed pressure the fan base implies,you have to build a team capable of long term success. The foundation is good,but can get better and that includes the wr opposite of andre and his successor. I mean we all know how pathetic the offense is minus andre either by injury,double team,or elite corner. They need a guy,a young guy capable of being a top target wthin 2 or 3 yrs as andre fades. That guy can get training this year whether its hunter,williams,or some other guy. For the fan base who wants to pass because of the duration it might or might not take,then that's your choice. Maybe if kubiak and smith had desperation like some think,then maybe they would risk losing cushing to pay this all out wr who was probably drafted where the texans are drafting now. Of the top wrs is the game now,how many were drafted high? In fact,the top free agents wrs this year none were high picks. Jennings,bowe,wallace,nicks, not 1. So why the lack of patience by the fanbase?

You do realize that list of top FA WR's consist of 2 former 1st round picks, 1 2nd round pick, & 1 3rd round pick? I would consider at least the two 1st rounders & the 2nd rounder "high picks". Some could even make a debate for the 3rd rounder. Posey has been the highest pick used on a WR since Jacoby despite the position needing some help for a few years now & no player of real significance has been brought in via FA to fill the void for lengthy period of time. I think that's where the lack of patience comes from because outside of Andre the position is in need of help & that has been the situation for at least a couple of years now IMO.

 

[badboy]

I don't care what kind of supposed pressure the fan base implies,you have to build a team capable of long term success. The foundation is good,but can get better and that includes the wr opposite of andre and his successor. I mean we all know how pathetic the offense is minus andre either by injury,double team,or elite corner. They need a guy,a young guy capable of being a top target wthin 2 or 3 yrs as andre fades. That guy can get training this year whether its hunter,williams,or some other guy. For the fan base who wants to pass because of the duration it might or might not take,then that's your choice. Maybe if kubiak and smith had desperation like some think,then maybe they would risk losing cushing to pay this all out wr who was probably drafted where the texans are drafting now. Of the top wrs is the game now,how many were drafted high? In fact,the top free agents wrs this year none were high picks. Jennings,bowe,wallace,nicks, not 1. So why the lack of patience by the fanbase?

My lack of patience stems from ignoring the WR position for so long, JJ not working out, and our guys from last draft doing so much less that was expected. Add to the list Jean who has difficulty remaining on field and him not being a high draft pick that I can easily move on from.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Any chance we can make enough cap space to sign 28-year-old Miles Austin if the Dallas Cowboys release him for salary purposes? I'm assuming we can release 31-year-old Kevin Walter and he'll probably end up in Dallas.

That would be funny if we basically swap number two wide receivers with our in-state rivals. Except we would end up with the much more explosive and younger guy to better compliment Andre Johnson.