leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Thats what I wanna know. Im sure people thought alex smith was good enough until we saw 1 for 13 on 3rd downs in the nfc championship game
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Tennessee Titans @ Houston Texans. 9/15. Noon. CBS. **Official Liberty White Thread**
- Thread starter ThaShark316
- Start date
Thats what I wanna know. Im sure people thought alex smith was good enough until we saw 1 for 13 on 3rd downs in the nfc championship game
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Give Tom Brady the protection Matt Schaub had today and he'd look equally ****ty.
I understand the whole "Great QBs overcome" platitude but that's just that--a platitude. You can't be a great QB unless you have fantastic protection. Just like the whole "great teams overcome bad officiating" utopian garbage. No, sometimes bad calls are bad calls and those calls are detrimental and devastating to your attempt to win the game.
We won. If we sort out the line issues, Schaub will be fine and the team will be fine. If we don't, Schaub won't be fine and the team won't be fine. There's a reason the whole "the game is won in the trenches" thing is a thing. It's because it's true.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Good enough for us to win a Super Bowl.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Of course he's good enough. "Can" and "will" shouldn't be confused. Lesser quarterbacks have won championships and better quarterbacks haven't.
I'm not sure why this argument is happening now. He is the quarterback and nobody who is intellectual honest believes either Texan backup gives them as good of a chance to win this year. I am all for critical analysis, but I find this a peculiar time (week two and undefeated with two comeback wins through the air) to discuss potential, future roster upgrades, which is really where this argument leads.
Can we all agree that the Texans will need Schaub to play much, much better than he did the last six weeks of last season?... Also, can we agree that Schaub has played long stretches of very good football as a Texan?
I agree with your assessment of Schaub's limitations (arm and feet). Schaub has a good release but is a long strider which gets him into problems when he has pressure in his face. I don't think, however, that his limitations are greater than his assets as a QB. Sure, there are 5-6 Qbs I would much rather go into the playoffs with and another 4-5 I'd prefer looking at the long term health of the franchise. So be it. I'm not sure what can be done about that.
I am very encouraged by what I have seen from Schaub so far. Even today, I thought he looked very poised given the number of issues the team had in pass protection as well as getting separation downfield. I am a well known Kubiak apologist- but I thought Greg Williams destroyed him today... It took a series of great, athletic plays to pull that game out. I think most of the offensive woes today should be attributed to scheme- particularly Kubiak's predictable protection schemes and reluctance to go max protect on blitzing downs.
Schaub appears fresher, stronger, quicker, and more confident that I have seen him since 2009. If we get the 2009-10 Matt Schaub throughout this season, we have a very good chance of reaching the Superbowl, IMO.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Hard to say if it was legal or not, they aren't very consistent with that call. It's still not a dirty hit.
How about the fact that the defense gave up 21 pts (I'm giving them a pass on the tipped ball INT/short field score) in the SD game before waking up to stop them. Or the fact that they let Jake Locker - not Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees but Jake freakin' Locker
- march NINETY NINE YARDS to retake the lead after we went up 16-10. But I guess that's Schaub's fault too.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Kareem Jackson was terrrrrrrrrrrible on that long drive. Ugh.
I'm not a Matt Schaub fan, but last year we started horribly against the Broncos. Then Matt Schaub went nutts & kicked their a55.
Peyton's no different. He had beautiful pockets to throw from yesterday (from what I saw of the high-lights). Our game plan is to get in Manning's face & disrupt his game.
Brady's no different... try watching some of his games. Our game plan against him, is to get in his face & disrupt his game.
Eli is 0-2 despite his great feet. RG3 is 0-2 despite being very athletic.
Maybe there's more to this whole winning QB thing than feet.
You missed the point.
If frogs had wings...
We won the game. Schaub was a big part of that.
MSR...
I was watching the game with a bona-fide Schaub hater, but yesterday he had no complaints. The Titans only recorded 2 sacks yesterday because of penalties, there were a few others that didn't count. After that roughing the passer penalty, one of those Titans laid Schaub out, of a free release.
Well, he did complain about the throws short of the sticks, but other than that he was more upset with the OL (especially DBrown76) than he was with Schaub.
I'd like to see the all 22 on that first play where they said he let the receiver go. I'm suspecting he fell down, or slipped... but it's possible he was pushed.
I like that hit he put on Kendal Wright.... illegal as hell, he'll most likely get fined, but receivers need to know. He was jawing with Delanie Walker after that hit, then he goes high to try to stop Walker from getting into the endzone.... that didn't make sense.
Neither Wright or Walker was his assignment on those plays though. He came off his guy to make those plays. So I don't know if we can say he was terrrrrrrrrrrible. Not smart, sure. But they didn't throw the ball to the guy he was covering on the final two plays of that drive.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Schaub looked like crap for most of the game. I don't give a damn what the stats say. He sailed balls high, threw short of the sticks, and looked like crap in the pocket. However, at the end of the game, he nutted up and played great. The sideline throws to Hopkins were great. The fade to Hopkins on the left side of the EZ that Hop didn't bring in was a great throw. Of course, the flip side to the comeback argument is that a comeback wouldn't have been necessary if he hadn't looked like **** for about 55 minutes of the game.
The tip ball INTs are not on him so much. I guess all QBs have some responsibility for choosing a clean passing lane, but if you want to ding Schaub for those, then don't give JJ Watt credit for them on the other end. Just blame the opposing QB, right?
The tip ball INTs are not on him so much. I guess all QBs have some responsibility for choosing a clean passing lane, but if you want to ding Schaub for those, then don't give JJ Watt credit for them on the other end. Just blame the opposing QB, right?
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
The Chargers and Titans are better than folks thought at the beginning of the year, IMO. Schaub's limitations, against pressure, were evident again - if he is throwing off his back foot bad things happen. However, he did stand strong in the pocket manyt times, took some big hits and got back up. Kubiak needs to figure out what do with Schaub's roll-outs should he see/feel pressure. There is more downside to these roll-outs than upside at this moment.
I saw adjustments being made on the both sides of the ball, and new players and expected stars contributing to the comeback.
In my honest critique - that win was the type a team needs on the path to a Super Bowl. We got better yesterday.
I saw adjustments being made on the both sides of the ball, and new players and expected stars contributing to the comeback.
In my honest critique - that win was the type a team needs on the path to a Super Bowl. We got better yesterday.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I'm not sure being down 5-0 halfway through the first quarter is exactly what he means by "If they get down". We took a 7-5 lead on the Broncos with slightly more than 6 minutes left in the first quarter, and led by as many as 20 points before Denver got their first TD in the 4th quarter.
With that said, I think the idea that this offense isn't built to come back is a myth that somebody started, and then it just kind of caught on. It is built to come back if the need is there - it's just not run that way very often when the need isn't there.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Keep going by the stat line. That'll make more goat cheese.
Stats don't tell the real story or the whole story. Schaub has looked shakey for long stretches in both games. Yes, he has led comebacks, but that doesn't make him Joe Montana. If Schaub hadn't thrown pick 6's in each game, neither one would've been as close as they were.
He threw a pick 6 in each game?
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
There were a few ugly plays and performances yesterday. The one that bothers me most is the play of the Oline. Two weeks in a row they've been beaten by blitzes and the titans were bringing it. Wade had a rough outing yesterday, DB got beat a few times as did Newton.
Definitely things that are correctable, but the big nasty's were supposed to be one of our strong points
Definitely things that are correctable, but the big nasty's were supposed to be one of our strong points
Allstar
Bona fide
He gave them a +15 for that hit in a 6 point ball game when they were gaining momentum. Terrible. He missed a TD saving tackle. Very bad. That 99 yd drive made me feel like I did when he was a rook.
I thought the O-line play was adequate, not great, but not bad, against the Titans.
Some blitzes and stunts are the responsibility of the QB.
Schaub didn't play great, but he played well enough for the offense to score that many points, even with the 3 missed FGs.
The Titans secondary played physical; the refs let them play, and sometimes that doesn't help the QB.
It was a very good game overall, and the whole team, except for Bullock, deserve the game ball, IMO.
Ok... I disagree.
Not smart to take off Kendal Wright's head. He was not covering Wright, so it wasn't his terrible play for Wright to get open... wide open. He should have played through Wright's body, hit him in the kidney or something. That wasn't a terrible play, it was a stup1d play (semantics).
The poor tackle... maybe he's thinking about Swearinger getting fined for going low on Dustin Keller... again, stup1d. He's not going to keep Walker out of the endzone going high.
I don't see it that way, Allstar.
I rewatched the game, and the hit was lower than the one Pollard put on AJ.
KJax actually made contact with the receiver a chest area with his shoulder.
It was the violent impact that made the hit look bad.
Pollard's forearm and shoulder hit AJ head and the neck area.
That one was much more clear as an illegal hit.
I still would like for KJax to go in a little lower, but I don't know if I want to take away his aggressiveness.
This was in a four-deep, three-under zone with both JJo and KJax dropping back along with Manning and Keo.
KJax had to account for the outside receiver first.
That was his only chance on Walker.
He couldn't make a great play, but the offense had the upper hand here.
I wouldn't blame KJax on this one either.
I think DJ could play it better here.
When there are two receivers threatening the outside deep zone, he needed to stretch his (zone) further back and to the outside to help out.
Allstar
Bona fide
Alright, I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt. I watched it live and intoxicated, maybe things weren't as bad for him as it looked at first glance. Either way, it feels a whole lot better arguing about this after a win than a loss!
I haven't got the chance to look at the All-22; they are usually not available until noon or later on Monday.
It was cover two man under on the play that the receiver got past KJax on the side line.
I'm not sure if the D call here yet, but there was a good possibility that KJax dropped his coverage to play underneath due to the route patterns of all the receivers on his side.
With only one receiver running a vertical, Manning should probably be in better position to defend that route (similar to Pollard).
Some coaches teach the CB to follow the receiver deep, and if that's the case, then KJax blew the coverage.
But since we can't be sure what the D call is in this instance, we really can't tell.
If only somebody can pose this question to Wade directly.
At any rate, one poor play does not describe a player, especially when he made several nice plays throughout the game.
It was cover two man under on the play that the receiver got past KJax on the side line.
I'm not sure if the D call here yet, but there was a good possibility that KJax dropped his coverage to play underneath due to the route patterns of all the receivers on his side.
With only one receiver running a vertical, Manning should probably be in better position to defend that route (similar to Pollard).
Some coaches teach the CB to follow the receiver deep, and if that's the case, then KJax blew the coverage.
But since we can't be sure what the D call is in this instance, we really can't tell.
If only somebody can pose this question to Wade directly.
At any rate, one poor play does not describe a player, especially when he made several nice plays throughout the game.
Was swearinger fined? I don't remember him getting fined for that.
I didn't like it when I watched it live either, except for the hit.
I thought the hit was good, but I also understand that the ref can call it the way they did.
And that makes a tough situation for the CB.
Tony Dungy made a point on this play as well.
He doesn't like the rule, and he said it can force the CB to go low; the result is a greater chance for bad injuries to the receivers.
You can't be sure of what the d call is in any instance.
And even if you do think you know what the call is, there is a thing called game planning where coaches will deviate from the norm or what's commonly seen and give particular instructions based on the opponent/situation.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
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Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro
Nick Mathews ‏@Nick_Mathews
Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro
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Nick Mathews ‏@Nick_Mathews
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
PapaL
Loose Screw
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
eriadoc
Texan-American
He's on pace for 5,152 yards, 48 TDs, 24 INTs....
& 16 wins.
And that would probably put him middle of the pack if you also extrapolate everyone else's stats.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
He is who he is...good protection, he's damn near surgical. Bad protection, he's a liability.....at times.
But once again, tell me how's that different from 28-29 other starting qb's in the league.
Colin Kaepernick has everything Schaub lacks...Seattle made him look like Christian Ponder last night.
But once again, tell me how's that different from 28-29 other starting qb's in the league.
Colin Kaepernick has everything Schaub lacks...Seattle made him look like Christian Ponder last night.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
And that would probably put him middle of the pack if you also extrapolate everyone else's stats.
He is 4th in TD and ints and 8th in yards certainly not middle of the pack
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
DANG IT, ROOK! THIS IS HOW HIGH SCHAUB EXPECTS YOU TO JUMP NEXT TIME!!!!!
burro
probably drunk
I was referring specifically to the game winner, but yes. Something to say for our offense Sunday was that we were making it into the Titan's half of the field for most of the game and a fat kicker made it all moot.
1st drive - (1Q) Matt Schaub passes for a TD
2nd drive - (1Q) Reached Titans 32 yard line (FG No good)
3rd drive - (2Q) Reached own 47, Punt.
4th drive -(2Q) Reached Titans 31 yard line (FG No good)
5th drive (2Q) Reached Titans 42, Punt.
6th drive (2Q) Interception. Without knowing the actual design of that play, we can't say for sure whether it was on Hopkins or Schaub. Either way, both had a good game (actually, Hopkins had an amazing game...but you get the point
7th drive (3Q) Reached own 35, Punt.
8th drive (3Q) Matt Schaub passes for a TD
9th drive (3Q) Reached own 36, Punt.
10th drive (3Q) Reached own 44, Punt.
11th drive (3Q) Reached own 41, Punt.
12th drive (4Q) Reached Titans 40, Punt. Kubiak didn't even think about the 57 harder because Bullock sucks.
13th drive (4Q) Matt Schaub throws for a TD.
14th drive (4Q) Ends on own 9, Punt. This was a complete melt down by the offensive line. Schaub didn't even have time to "assume the fetal position" as people around here like to say.
15th drive (4Q) Running TD. Schaub and Hopkins were destroying it on this drive. Schaub completed 3 passes to Hopkins for 64 yards on this drive.
16th drive (4Q) Ends on Titans 28. I'll give you two guesses...
17 drive (OT) Matt Schaub throws game winning TD pass to Hopkins, having previously set it up with a really sweet 25 yard pass to Hopkins.
As you can see, with the exception a brief dry spell in the 3rd Quarter and an unlucky interception, the offense was moving the ball quite well. 11/17 drives ended in Tennessee territory.
eriadoc
Texan-American
The knock on the Texans offense, and Schaub in particular, isn't whether they can move the ball. Most of us that are Schaub "haters" have pointed out many times how he gets his stats between the 20s. Eight punts and an INT means your offense sucks on that day. Do that often enough and it just means your offense sucks.
burro
probably drunk
We've scored 61 points (54 if you take away Cushing's pick 6) in 2 games and are 4th in total offense. That doesn't suck at all - regardless of how you get there.
Also, Lechler has only punted 10 times this season. Less than Allen (NE), Colquitt (DEN), Koch (BAL) - do these offenses suck as well?
I guarantee you the coaches & players are working on "fixing" this offense. We've done some good things, done some bad things. This offense is not what we like to see (The TDs are good).
maybe some of us are a tad dry in our delivery.... but we're all fans. We all want the same things.
Yes, New England's & Baltimore's offenses suck right now.
Malloy
Hall of Fame
Pollard hit with a 42k fine for the hit on AJ.
So was Kareem Jackson.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...rd-pollard-fined-42k-for-hit-on-andre-johnson
So was Kareem Jackson.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...rd-pollard-fined-42k-for-hit-on-andre-johnson