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Teddy Bridgewater
- Thread starter revan
- Start date
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not sure how having a lot of crap adds up to anything really good. You can pile it as high as you want and it is still crap. Quantity means jack when you need one of quality.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
We should only take a QB if we are sure but since we have the chance to fix the QB position we should do it even if superior talent is available?
I'm so confused
Coincidently, the last defensive player in Clowney's stratosphere was Suh, who went No. 2, behind Sam Bradford -- a player Bussell feels is the closest recent comparison for Bridgewater. So far, Bradford has underwhelmed while Suh, despite occasional lapses in judgment, has proved to be one of the most disruptive interior players in the league. In other words, Detroit seems to have gotten the better end of that pair of selections.
Clowney possesses the type of talent to make any team who passes on him look inept.
Read More
I like how you use Suh as a comparison. I'm not blaming Suh but that Detroit team has been mediocre for years. No matter how dominant they are one defensive player can only do so much. Julius Peppers' Bears are mediocre, Mario Williams' Bills have been terrible and Watt didn't help stop Houston's 14 game losing streak this year. A franchise caliber QB would be so much more effective if you want to turn around this team faster.
Well no ****. My point was of one of these three isn't a franchise QB you don't force it. Take the best player. I would rather have two dominant defensive players that only one with an average QB.
We should only take a QB if we are sure but since we have the chance to fix the QB position we should do it even if superior talent is available?
I'm so confused
Coincidently, the last defensive player in Clowney's stratosphere was Suh, who went No. 2, behind Sam Bradford -- a player Bussell feels is the closest recent comparison for Bridgewater. So far, Bradford has underwhelmed while Suh, despite occasional lapses in judgment, has proved to be one of the most disruptive interior players in the league. In other words, Detroit seems to have gotten the better end of that pair of selections.
Clowney possesses the type of talent to make any team who passes on him look inept.
Read More
Well, let me explain my thoughts for you: we should only take a QB if we are sure he could he our QB for the future. But if there is one, that could be that for us we absolutely need to take him, even if there is a player with more talent available.
So even if Clowney is going to be a hall of famer in our book and Bridgewater just a really good QB - we should take Bridgewater. Simply because the QB position is that much more important.
TexansFTW
Veteran
We should only take a QB if we are sure but since we have the chance to fix the QB position we should do it even if superior talent is available?
I'm so confused
Coincidently, the last defensive player in Clowney's stratosphere was Suh, who went No. 2, behind Sam Bradford -- a player Bussell feels is the closest recent comparison for Bridgewater. So far, Bradford has underwhelmed while Suh, despite occasional lapses in judgment, has proved to be one of the most disruptive interior players in the league. In other words, Detroit seems to have gotten the better end of that pair of selections.
Clowney possesses the type of talent to make any team who passes on him look inept.
Read More
Detroit also has a 1.01 QB, and a 1.02 WR that have a lot to do with their team success.
In the last 4 years the Lions have had 21, 23, 13, and 16th ranked defense. One man didn't make the defense great.
Am I arguing that Bradford is a better player? No way, I hate Bradford (even though in his defense you can't totally close the book because of injuries although I kind of have), but the impact of Suh on total team success is arguable at best.
Yep. I am starting to feel like I've been here before, somewhere in the last 76 pages...
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I feel the exact same way. I honestly don't think bridgewater is that far behind luck as a prospect.
And I think if he goes to the right situation he could be better as a young player than luck. I think houston would be the perfect fit for bridgewater. The city would fall in love with him.
I honestly think he's head and shoulders above every prospect I've watched in this draft.
That's why I keep saying it'll sting to pass on him....but I will remain hopeful if we do. It's not that I hate the other prospects. I just love what I see when I watch teddy. I think in houston he would be a great, great player.
Well, let's look at the 2012 QBs & the success they've had early.... Ryan Griffin & Russell Wilson had better rookie seasons. Russell Wilson had a better sophomore season. Ryan Tannehill had a comparable rookie season & not far behind as a sophomore (imagine Tannehill had Hilton instead of that bust Wallace).
& Luck was the highest graded QB?? Either the grading was flawed, or the game is changing. I haven't decided which yet.
But the fact that Bridgewater is reading defenses & calling plays against the ACC doesn't really sell me on him when guys are coming out of the Pac-12 or the Big-12 & doing it in year 1 with no problems.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Ryan Griffin? I assume typo.
Imagine if Wallace had Luck instead of that bust Tannehill. It can go both ways. Wallace didn't put up $60 mill numbers, but he wasn't a bust either, same way Tan isn't a bust yet. Wallace has shown he can make it rain in the NFL though and Tan hasn't done that for me yet.
AAC actually, which is even worse to help your argument.
I'm not saying this happened, but one might be able to say the league caught up to RG3, and he will need to take his game to the next level to stay in front. So now you've got Luck, who is obviously a better prospect and Wilson, who has 'arguably' the greatest defense of all time on the other side of the ball.
I hear you though and you do raise some valid points. TB won't be Luck, but he can be a damn good TB.
Whoops......
Good point..... however, did you watch Wallace play in 2013? Ugly stuff.
Thanks
Well, that's the league changing thing. He was put in a position to succeed, a custom designed offense to take advantage of what he can do & hide what he can't do... but yes, he needs to gravitate towards the norm, towards what has been successful for a long time.
They all do.
Sorry, I can't agree with you there. Based on there first two seasons, it's hard to imagine Luck being a better pro.
Somebody likened Bridgewater to McNabb the other day. I got excited. I'd be more than happy if Bridgewater were to have a McNabb like career. I went back & rewatched all my Bridgewater stuff... I'm just not seeing it.
I think I've already said I disagree with all your takes.
This one is no different. I'm just stating my opinion and reading others. Not really interested in old re-hashed debates.
So having just a really good QB is more important than having a hall of fame defender? That's insane. Here's why. You can find "really good" QB's in the second and third round. You do t get many chances to draft potential hall of famers.
And if he disagrees with your take, he can reply as he did. You expected no rebuttal to "your" take?
Where did you read in what I posted that he shouldn't reply to my post?
I simply replied that I disagreed and wasn't going to expound.
If my posting style is an issue for you, there is an ignore feature.
Your missing the point. What impact they have had is another argument all together. Who knows if sue would of made a bigger impact On the rams? The point is he's a way better player. You do t draft a QB first just because you need one. You draft QB first because you are sure he is a huge difference maker.
If Obrian feels one if these guys are a huge difference maker then fine I'm good with it. But if he has doubts the. Why take the chance? Go with the player ranked the highest. **** I don't care if it's an OT like Robinson. High first round picks need to be long term impact players. You don't risk wasting the pick because of need. Obviously there is risk with any player in the draft. Which is even more reason to not gamble anymore than you have to.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Is Bridgewater a Bill O’Brien QB?
See all video cutup comparisons here: http://draftbreakdown.com/is-bridgewater-an-obrien-qb/
Better quality videos at above link, as well.
Being able to deliver intermediate throws with accuracy is critical, especially as windows get smaller in the NFL. Bridgewater regularly shows the ability to do so.
Here, we see basic play calls on both accounts but with very difficult throws. In Brady’s situation, he has to touch-pass it over top of the two Bills defenders, while Bridgewater must rocket it into a small window to his WR. The intermediate range of the field is used in a variety of ways in O’Brien’s offense, much of which requires throws of this caliber...
See all video cutup comparisons here: http://draftbreakdown.com/is-bridgewater-an-obrien-qb/
Better quality videos at above link, as well.
I think when obrien looks at the film and gets these guys on the chalk board he's going to lean towards bridgewater. With the way it seems obrien likes to run his offense, tb seems like a sure thing to be the top pick IMO.
TexansFTW
Veteran
I'm all about Bridgewater, but it's definitely a viable argument. I hope you don't get 10 people disagreeing with you now and we do another 6 page loop around about this topic.
You can find NFL QB prospects from big schools that have both failed and succeeded and you can find the same from small school guys.
It's still a viable argument, but one cannot completely dismiss because of this, especially when they played against big schools and dominated with their small school teams. So I hear you there.
Ah yes, another newbie trying to tell me how the board works.
Perhaps you should take your own advice when it comes to TK's posts...just a thought.
So what's the three best arguments we can make?
If you can answer that question, you've got NFL scouting down.
My three would be:
Accuracy
Arm Strength
Decision-making
Ah yes, another newbie trying to tell me how the board works.
Perhaps you should take your own advice when it comes to TK's posts...just a thought.
Ah, joined date complex. Got it now.
What advice should I take?
Ignore feature? I didn't give any advice to TK. That was for you.
You quoted me, I responded. I didn't engage you.
Gotta Know
Practice Squad
I don't get it.
I count two potentially great players on the D. Does drafting Clooney force JJ to retire? It's a lot easier to game plan against one great player. Much more difficult with two in the front seven.
Nobody would argue that a great franchise QB would be better than a second great defensive player. Are there any in this draft? I don't know. The Texans will have to make that determination. One thing is certain, jobs will be on the line.
Glad I'm not a scout or GM. It's a lot easier to play one on the internet.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
If you can answer that question, you've got NFL scouting down.
My three would be:
Accuracy
Arm Strength
Decision-making
Intangibles are more important than those things in the opinion of Drew Brees.
He reckons if a QB gets drafted he has the physical tools.
What exactly are intangibles?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I tend to agree..Many NFL scouts and mock drafters/talent evaluators tend to make too much out of who a guy has played & the player doesn't have any control over that. Personally, competition is one of the last metrics i use when evaluating a guy largely b/c it tells you next to nothing of what a guy is gonna do on the next level.
That's what's going on with Manziel right now & a little bit of the reason why folks seem to be overlooking Bridgewater. People see Manziel's numbers & who he played against & are overrating him quite a bit imo. Why? Largely b/c he did what he did in "The mighty SEC".
The reality of it is, while the SEC has had more talent drafted into the NFL over the last several years, That talent isn't really translating into them being the most dominant players in the NFL year in & out. Just this past year, If you look at the top 5 of every statistical list in the regular season, there aren't many SEC guys up there.
Qb's by passing yardage = Peyton Manning, Matt Stafford
Rb's by rushing yardage = 0 from the SEC
WR by recieving yardage = AJ Green
Oh but you say the SEC is known for defense...well
defensive players by tackles = 0 from the SEC
defensive players by sacks = 1, Greg Hardy
defensive players by ints = 1, Brandon Boykin
Even if you drop down to top 10 of all statistical categories, you're not adding very many more names of guys from the SEC.
In all honesty, The ACC seems to be putting more premium talent in the NFL.
Qb's by passing yardage = 2, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers
Rb's by rushing yardage = 0
WR by recieving yardage = 2, Calvin Johnson, Demaryius Thomas
defensive players by tackles = 1, Luke Keuchly
defensive players by sacks = 2, Robert Quinn, Mario Williams
defensive players by ints = 1, Antrelle Rolle
The Pac 12 isn't doing to shabby either...better than the SEC anyway.
Obviously, there's a little more depth to it than just this, but i confirms what i've felt for a while now & have thought that the competition/NFL talent thing in regards to the SEC has been overplayed for a minute now b/c of their run of BCS championships.
You can also do the little exercise of going up & down our roster & see how many SEC guys are actually making a positive impact on our team....not many if any at all.
J-Jo
K-jax
Swearinger
..I ain't impressed
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
Ah, joined date complex. Got it now.
What advice should I take?
Ignore feature? I didn't give any advice to TK. That was for you.
You quoted me, I responded. I didn't engage you.
Nope, no complex at all. You tried to be condescending, I decided to write it off to ignorance.
Advice - Ignore TKs posts if you don't wish to engage in debate. (as you yourself suggested)
You did give advice to TK - you told him you weren't interested in debate.
You keep quoting me, I respond as well.
Is today's lesson over?
If you don't mind, can you tell us which conference the top 10 QBs from last year came from? & which rounds they were selected?
Please?
That's not advice. That was a statement. Wasn't attempting to be condescending either. That's in your head. Part of the complex you have.
Funny that you had a such a big issue with it when the person who was actually involved didn't feel the need to reply. Conversation was over.
But your complex is semi-amusing/interesting so what the hell. I'll play. Pm the next reply so we don't further muck up the thread.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
By what standard though? if we use statistics (total offense) from reg season:
Manning -SEC
Brees - Big 10
Stafford - SEC
Ryan - ACC
Rivers- ACC
Brady - Big 10
Dalton - Big 12
Palmer - Pac 12
Rothlisberger - MAC
Tannehill - SEC
All those guys were top 15 1st round guys except Brees (2nd) Brady (6th) & Dalton (2nd-3rd i believe)
If you're talking top guys by consensus best...in no specific order:
Manning -SEC
Brees - Big 10
Brady - Big 10
Rodgers - Pac 12
Luck - Pac 12
Rivers - ACC
Wilson - Big 10
Kaepernick - WAC
Rothlisberger - MAC
Ryan - ACC
Most of these are top 15 1st round guys as well. except again Brees & Brady & then add in Wilson & Kaep as 3rd rounders
Honestly, you could take Kaepernick off & put any number of guys in his place (Flacco-Colonial athletic...something, Stafford-SEC, Newton-SEC ...Romo - some Div. II conference not even worth mentioning.)
TexansFTW
Veteran
I randomly did this pretty recently making a debate with someone, lol. This is based on Yards FYI.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I just wanted to add another obscure analyst to the enjoyable argument thus far I particularly like the bolded. I know, I know Matt Miller is a bum, he probably said that Jamarcus Russel would be the GOAT and hence he should be selling womens underwear, regardless ENJOY! =)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...page/11#ooid=9ydnh3ajrhl6UiBvk0r84nm8BxcE98g2
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...page/11#ooid=9ydnh3ajrhl6UiBvk0r84nm8BxcE98g2
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Peter King barely knows more about football than crap, but it's hard to know for sure since his articles center around airports, starbucks and traffic.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Please don't spend the #1 pick on somebody named Clooney.
But Rosemary had such a lovely voice!
See, this is where I disagree. How many real good QBs are in the NFL? I´d say 10, maybe 12 tops. Sure, there are several mid to late rounders in that list, but most were taken in the first round. Oh, and I wouldn`t call guys like Dalton or Schaub a really good QB.
And then look at how many QBs were selected in total in the last 10 years... I´d guess easily over 100. In the first 3 rounds? Probably around 50?
It is hard to find a very good QB - really hard. You usually can`t get one via trade or free agency and the draft is a lottery. If you pick first your odds are the best.
So yeah, a real good QB is worth more than a hall of fame defender - at least in my book. Simply because they are a lot harder to get and influence the game a lot more. And by the way, we already have a hall of fame defender on our team (probably at least) - and he already has a lot of talent by his side. And our defense will get more help in the draft, probably a pass rusher, an inside LB and a safety.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
It is much easier to find a good QB than an elite one. I would say you average about one elite QB every other year while seeing a couple of good QBs each year. Probably a similar number of backup quality QBs in any given year.
The question with using a #1 pick is whether any QB is an Elite QB prospect. I don't see any. If not, then you either go with BPA or trade down where you don't leave too much talent on the table to fill your need.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
and somehow he was the sportswriter of the year 3 years ago.
Salty?
So some folks are alluding that Clowney is already on his way to Canton? LOL
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I wonder how much that award cost him?
Well, I guess the question is what is an elite QB. If you are talking about Manning, Brady, Brees and Rodgers - well then I have to disagree. There are a lot more QBs worthy of being taken with the first pick. Now let`s include guys like Luck, Wilson, RG3 (maybe), Eli, Big Ben. Maybe even guys like Cam Newton, Kaepernick and Flacco, Matt Ryan.
That`s 13 QBs right here. None of these will be easily available and none other of their quality will be available to us. Of course it is debatable if a guy with the quality of like Flacco, Ryan or Kaepernick would be worth the number 1 pick, but if you could get one of the other 9 mentioned, I don`t think there is a question that you take them (note: I am not saying take Eli - I am saying investing a draft pick in a young player that posesses the sames qualities as Eli).
And the other hand to look at it: those are 13 "quality" QBs - some of them in the league for 16 years. So with that criteria, in the last 16 years we only got 13 quality QBs, which doesn`t add up to a couple each year. And of those 13, 9 were picked in the first round. So only 4 quality QBs that are still in the league were picked outside of round 1.
You can argue with the players I picked (Foles? Rivers? Stafford?), but I think it is clear, that the hardest thing in building a football roster is getting your quality QB. So if you think there might be one available to you, you take him.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
But once again, picking a mid first quality QB with the 1-1 doesn't make him a better QB. They are what they are and you don't overpay just because you need one if they aren't one.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Guy walks up to you in the desert with a gallon of water, do you tell him no because he wants $10? Even if he will sell you a $500 Kobe steak for the same $10, you take the water.
Yeah, I agree. Like I said, the question is how good does a QB have to be to pick him #1. To get back to my list, I´d say he`d need to be at least as good as one of the 13 QBs I´ve listed. Simply because I think you need a QB that is at least that good to win a superbowl and you don`t have any other chance to get them other than the draft (and you have a much better shot at 1.1 then at 2.1).
Of course if you don`t think Bridgewater, Manziel or Bortles can be that, don`t take them. Don`t reach for a QB just because we need one.
But if you think one of those guys could be at least as good as one of the 13 I`ve listed it is worth it to pass on superior talent just because the QB position is so important and so difficult to fill.
And about the round value - that is hard to put a finger on. If that means when a player will probably be taken, well then Bridgewater has a clear top 5 value right now. If you are talking about the quality of a prospect, you can`t really decide that before the draft. Wilson was severely underrated, Gabbert was severly overrated. Is the prospect Bridgewater under or overrated - there are a lot of oppinions, but we can`t know for sure until he sets foot on an NFL field (and even then it might take a couple of seasons before we really know).
But to stay with Bridgewater: most scouts have him in the top 10 of their big board (most even in their top 3), so he is rated at least as an early first rounder.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Unless the water is poisonous. We have a QB. We want improvement. Just naming another to start doesn't make them better. They have to BE better and substantially better for 1-1.