If Sam Bradford was our QB, I wonder who they would be projecting to us.
If Wisnehunt was our coach would Bortles be in the conversation?
If the Cleveland Browns want Johnny Manziel... That can't be a good decision can it?
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Teddy Bridgewater
- Thread starter revan
- Start date
If Sam Bradford was our QB, I wonder who they would be projecting to us.
If Wisnehunt was our coach would Bortles be in the conversation?
If the Cleveland Browns want Johnny Manziel... That can't be a good decision can it?
It really depends upon how you have them graded.
If they are all very close , you can afford to move back & take what's left while securing other assets.
If you have one significantly better than the others , you take that player.
The reason we are talking about a trade down scenario is that many of us just haven't been able to separate them by a whole lot. Even if we have a favorite among them , most realize they are very close , even with diverse talents.
I like that tb has t been mentioned much by "sources". Maybe if teams think we are really going to take one of the other guys they'll trade up and we can still get the guy we want...or that I hope we want...bridgewater.
That would be sweet if some team jumped up for clowney or manziel and we still got him. Kind of risky. I probably would chance it...but if it happened like that if be ecstatic.
That would be sweet if some team jumped up for clowney or manziel and we still got him. Kind of risky. I probably would chance it...but if it happened like that if be ecstatic.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
TB at IMG as well. (This kid had 41 rushing TDs in 2013!)
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/...y-0205-20140204,0,1952565.story#ixzz2sm73ENAk
In a word...yes. similar training goes on (or is at least available) for non-athletes through most colleges in America. Too many of 21 year olds, really don't know to leave the phone in the car for an hour, look people in the eye, not tell the interviewer that he/she was a leader because they organized parties every weekend.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Only if you want to maximize your draft position.
"Man, Imma gonna win me like 10 Super Bowls and buy me like 10 Rolls Royces and get me like 10 supermodel girlfriends and hang out wif strippers & rappers and blow weed all night and all day" probably doesn't represent the best answer to, "What do you hope to accomplish in your life?"
Not every one of these student-athletes are held to highest standards of "student" or taught how to do Life 101 off the field, unfortunately. You have to be taught how to interview properly. You have to learn how to play the media game. You need to learn to showcase your leadership qualities in the best light. And you need to demonstrate a flawless, quick-minded football IQ.
None better that I've seen than this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IbYoeSf6Gk Watch his eyes. Listen to his mastery of the game. This the guy you hire as CEO of your organization.
Unless you can get a really good QB like Smith/Murray in the 3rd rd. Really good isn't hard to find. Bradford/Stafford/Smith were all 1-1's/ Sanchez/Manuel/Flacco/Rivers in the AFC were all highly rated, then you have the Gabbert/Lockers of the world who were supposed to be really good.
Then you've got Brees/Kaep/Wilson/Romo/Foles/ etc.... who turned out to be better than the above mentioned QB's.
It's a crapshoot, if it comes down to picking a QB that can only be good at 1-1. I will pass on the QB. Especially with odds being just as good at finding a successful QB in Rd2-3 of this yrs draft. Give me Smith or Murray + Clowney over any of the top 3.
That ought to cover most 20 yr-old football players.
Most of us interview and we either get / don't get the job.
These guys interview and it can make millions of dollars of difference. I'd sure want any edge I could get.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You say this as if you can't or don't find great pass rushers in 2nd or 3rd rd. For every scenerio you have for taking clowney,and smith or murray,I can say give me TB ad dee ford or markus smith.
If you want to be stuck in mediocrity for the next decade.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Completely nonsensical response. You aren't following the conversation you quoted from.
I just don't think any of the top 3 QB's will amount to more than Cutler/Rivers/Romo.
Perpetual mediocrity.
Perpetual mediocrity.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's fine. My comment wasn't about any of these particular QBs.
I personally think you miss the mark including Rivers there but that's a different matter.
That would still be the best QB the Texans ever had (at least vintage Cutler). I don`t know, if the pick were justified if we were only getting this type of player. But people are acting as if this type of player would be easy to get. It is not. Look at teams like the Texans, the Titans, the Jaguars, the Browns, the Cardinals, the Jets and several other teams. They have been trying to get this type of QB for years without any success. And they have been picking early in the draft for years...
It is not like we can wait till the second round to get a QB like that. If we could, it would be an upset just like Kaepernick was - and those are a lot fewer than early first rounders, that are successful.
I am not saying we have to take a QB at 1.1. Sure, if our drafting department doesn´t think a QB is worth it, don`t take him. I am just saying this: hey we can get our QB of the future easily in round 2 or 3 or next season is dangerous. Because the odds of getting one later are a lot worse and the odds of us getting a number 1 pick again next season are pretty low as well...
I don't agree. I think, & I've been saying this all along, guys who will be there in the 2nd (especially at 2-1) are probably going to be as good as Cutler/Rivers/Romo. This draft is deep in QB. Don't have any Peyton Mannings, or Tom Bradies, or "Andrew Lucks" but a lot of Rivers & Ryans & maybe even a Flacco.
& in my mind "they" are saying Andrew Luck, the best QB prospect since Peyton, is a lock to be Cutler/Rivers/Romo with a chance to be Peyton/Brady/Brees... These guys in this draft, none of them are a lock to be Cutler/Rivers/Romo/Schaub...... they all have the ability, may even be more when it's all said & done.
Especially if I have a QB guru & the 2-1 pick, I'm taking the best player bar none with the 1-1 & a QB in the 2nd.
Well you probably know a lot more about these guys than I do, since I can`t watch many college football games here in Germany. I am basing my opinion solely on stuff I read on the internet and lessons from the past. I just want to point out, that getting a good QB in the 2nd or 3d round was the absolute exception in the past 15 years. As far as Rivers, Ryan and Flacco go, I´d say only 4 fit the bill so far (Brady, Kaepernick, Wilson, Romo) if I am not forgetting somebody (which I probably am.
So even if this is the year with a 2nd or 3d round gem - the probablitiy that we are the one taking him opposed to any other team that takes them (and if this years class is as deep as you say I expect a rush at QBs in the 2nd and 3d) is rather slim.
I am taking the best QBA with 1.1 unless there is a big falloff in value. But if a QB is in my top 5 and the other ones aren`t clear cut better, I go with him.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Which vintage is that? Cutler has never had a season with a QB rating in the 90s. Schaub had 5 straight seasons in the 90s in Houston.
Just an FYI, thunderkyss is taking an extremely contrarian view this draft cycle. Not saying he is wrong, just unusual.
If there were a big drop off in value, I would expect you to take a QB at 1.1
If you have any of these QBs anywhere near a top 5 prospect, you should take one of them at 1.1
I don't believe there is that drop off.
I don't believe any of them are a top 5 prospect.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
So, you have 5 non-QB players that you believe will all have a larger positive impact on the average team than any QB available in this draft?
I hear Clowney all the time, of course. Who are your top 5 selections?
TexansFTW
Veteran
Some say success is when the prepared man meets opportunity. The opportunity is at hand. Preparation is key.
I've practiced before every interview I've ever taken.
As for facts and honest answers, the only guys that truly say how they feel are guys like Richard Sherman. And if his team would have lost the Super Bowl he would have been a "cancer".
Media has killed the days of awesome sports personalities and honesty. Now you only get media trained athletes that spout out the same regurgitated garbage answers, "one game at a time" "only control what I can control", etc.
As far as QBs being available in later rounds... Don't we hear that every year? Just last year I remember that we can get Tyler Bray late and he'd have equivalent success of some of the earlier drafted QBs.
There is NEVER a deep draft for QBs and 99% of the time, those late round guys don't work out. But who am I? Let's go find us a Tom Brady.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Nailed the $64k question.
Like someone else said..... I think it was Corrosion, even an QB graded at 87 will have more positive impact than a 95 defensive rated player. But those 87 QBs aren't top 5 prospects when they're more abundant than 95 graded defensive players.
Ryan Tannehill, Branden Weeden... high 80s right? 85, 87 type QBs?
Then you've got Dontari Poe sitting there with a 95 grade. You're taking Tannehill?
Why not take Poe, then Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins?
I know Miami has a "pretty good" defensive line, didn't really "need" a 3 tech & were starving for a QB.....
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Answer the question. Who are the 5 non-QBs who are better than every QB prospect in this draft?
The answer is that it don't work that way. There are more 85-90 QB prospects than there are 95 defensive prospects. Or Offensive for that matter.
But... just from what I've seen, I'll take Clowney & Watkins over any QB in this draft hands down. Give me the #1 & #2 pick, I'm taking them both.
I like Greg Robinson as well. I'll take him, maybe Lewan. Mike Evans... maybe because I watch too much A&M. That's 5 right there. Those guys are much better at their positions than the top 3 QBs are at theirs.
Watkins
Clowney
Robinson
Lewan
Evans
I'll take any of those 5 in the first & Aj McCarron in the second. I might even trade up in the first to get McCarron, just to improve his chances of succeeding.
Trap_Star
SiteContributor
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Stop with the McCarron sidetrack.
So all of those 5 will be a bigger benefit to a team than any QB in this draft? - i.e., the question HJam asked you - that's your opinion?
Weird, the 5 prospects I think most would answer with would be
1. Clowney
2. Wakins
3. Barr
4. Mack
5. One of Robinson, Matthews, or Mosley
Stop telling people what to do.
I said one thing, "none of these QBs are top 5 prospects"
He said something, "which player is going to have more impact."
I explained, "Don't put words in my mouth"
Since you're getting in the middle of all of this, Don't try to box me in a corner. I explained exactly what I meant.
Each one of those 5 players will have more impact at their position than any of these three QBs will have over several others in this draft.
Julius Peppers didn't positively affect his team as much as Carr did, but Peppers was better than any DE drafted that year while Carr was about the same (effectively) as the other 91ish QB drafted in the top 5.
Curious, what did you practice before every interview?
BTW, did you know that there was talk of Bray having beaten out Daniels for the backup QB spot? I'm still very high on Bray, especially under Reid's tutelage.
Count me in on getting the next Brady in the 6th rd. I still like my guy Brett Smith as much as any QB in this draft and have done so for some time. He wont start yr 1 but he's going to be a good one with Reid type coaching.
I would put Louis Nix in the top 5.
So that would make 8 Players that are more highly rated than any QB in this draft? If you took Clowney #1 would you trade back up to 10 and pick a QB?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
So, rivers was not or is not a franchise caliber qb? If people knew romo would play the way he has,where do you think he would be drafted in 2004?
Luck has been good,but its not like he's pulled a 80s elway and packed scrubs to superbowl. Fact of the matter is his best attribute is short term memory,not his inconsistent and streaky ball placement. Even with his negatives,no one is saying it was a bad pick or they should've moved down.
See this is where I think you are wrong and where your while philosophy on the draft is flawed.
I think first you just need to admit to us and yourselves that you really really like McCarron.
A lot of your opinions I think are derived from your opinion that McCarron is the best choice at QB for this team. Nothing wrong with thinking that, even thought I mightily disagree but I think your other points would make more sense is you just established that first.
Second I think it is impossible to say that any 5 non QB prospects will have more effect on their team than any QB in this draft. There is no way to know any of these guys pan out or even become the best at their respective position in this draft class. Clowney could end up being a great DE but the best pass rusher in this class may be at the end of the second round somewhere. Robinson may be a solid tackle for years to come but maybe the leagues next great LT comes out of the 3rd...
Just like the best QB in this draft is guaranteed to be one of the top drafted, the same applies for every other position in football.
What can't be disputed is how big of an impact the position of QB itself makes on a team in comparison to other positions and the need to get the right one. This whole system of labeling players on a 0-100 scale is pointless, because at the end of the day you have to have a good QB to win in this league. You don't HAVE to have a great DE, or RT, or WR. Sure it helps, and you obviously need much more than just a QB, you need a complete team, but no single position is more important than quarter back...
And with that in mind and using your system, shouldn't a "92" QB compared to a "89" QB be weighed differently than say a 95 DE to a 88 DE? Because of just how important the QB position is, shouldn't ever little decimal of a point in this system you call to so often matter even more?
These guys have Bridgewater #2, Manziel at 13, & Bortles at 16.
This is a lot closer to the way I see it, except Bridgewater should be down there with Manziel & Bortles, I don't believe Manziel & Bortles should be up there with Bridgewater.
I don't think Bridgewater is a better prospect than Manziel... he may be more NFL ready, but my gut says Manziel will be the better pro: hence better prospect.
This is a lot closer to the way I see it, except Bridgewater should be down there with Manziel & Bortles, I don't believe Manziel & Bortles should be up there with Bridgewater.
I don't think Bridgewater is a better prospect than Manziel... he may be more NFL ready, but my gut says Manziel will be the better pro: hence better prospect.
I was just speaking of what I think most people answers would be based on their position, talent, and ceiling of impact for a team. I think a OLB/DE pass rusher is generally regarded as tied for the second most important position on a team with a LT.
Even though a moderator would like you to believe I said that, I never said that.
I said it's about drop-off. There are 6 QBs in this draft that I think might be a franchise QB. 3 possible dominant DEs, 3 possible franchise LTs, 2 #1 WRs
All the DEs, LTs, & WRs I want will be gone by the time our second pick comes around.
I feel at least 2 of the QBs I want will still be there.
Thats exactly what I thought you were saying; That the top 5 non QB prospects will have more an impact to their teams in contrast to later prospect than the top 5 QB prospects will have when compared to other prospects at their postition outside the top 5.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I just quickly went to 5 Big Boards. All had Bridgewater rated as the top QB. The first board had him rated #6, the second, #2, the third, #7, the forth, #6, and the fifth had him rated as the #3 prospect. Make what you want from this, but when you talk of having a positive impact, what time frame are you speaking of. Even with the two boards which rated Bridgewater so highly, in the short term, a Clowney or a Barr may have a greater impact. It usually takes several years for the "good" QB's to begin to reach their potential. I'm just going all nit picky and academic.
See this is where I think you are wrong and where your while philosophy on the draft is flawed.
I think first you just need to admit to us and yourselves that you really really like McCarron.
A lot of your opinions I think are derived from your opinion that McCarron is the best choice at QB for this team. Nothing wrong with thinking that, even thought I mightily disagree but I think your other points would make more sense is you just established that first.
Second I think it is impossible to say that any 5 non QB prospects will have more effect on their team than any QB in this draft. There is no way to know any of these guys pan out or even become the best at their respective position in this draft class. Clowney could end up being a great DE but the best pass rusher in this class may be at the end of the second round somewhere. Robinson may be a solid tackle for years to come but maybe the leagues next great LT comes out of the 3rd...
Just like the best QB in this draft is guaranteed to be one of the top drafted, the same applies for every other position in football.
What can't be disputed is how big of an impact the position of QB itself makes on a team in comparison to other positions and the need to get the right one. This whole system of labeling players on a 0-100 scale is pointless, because at the end of the day you have to have a good QB to win in this league. You don't HAVE to have a great DE, or RT, or WR. Sure it helps, and you obviously need much more than just a QB, you need a complete team, but no single position is more important than quarter back...
And with that in mind and using your system, shouldn't a "92" QB compared to a "89" QB be weighed differently than say a 95 DE to a 88 DE? Because of just how important the QB position is, shouldn't ever little decimal of a point in this system you call to so often matter even more?
To win big in the NFL (Super Bowl) you need a CLUTCH QB and a great defense.
In this draft you're just as likely to find a clutch QB late in the 1st or early 2nd rd as at 1-1. None of these top 3 QB's have greatness genes to me. Bridgewater has the best chance of the top 3. IMHO But I don't think he's worth the risk of 1-1.
But I bet you regardless of which QB will be picked (One will be picked) history will be repeating itself.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Where does all this 85, 90, 95 stuff come from? This all just sounds like made-up gibberish to me. "85, 87 type QBs"? What does that even mean? What is the difference between an 85 graded QB and a 90 graded QB.
At some point, this type of discussion becomes ridiculous in my opinion. I don't understand overanalyzing prospects in this manner. Most of these ratings are going to be completely inaccurate when all is said and done, so they are basically just pre-draft, made-up talking points. We know very little about each player's work ethic, ability to learn, mental capacity, etc. These are the characteristics that matter the most and set prospects/players apart, especially with QBs. Any rating system would have to take these characteristics into account or they are completely flawed. While, we may know enough to form an opinion that fills in the blanks, we do not know nearly enough to rate a prospect down to a number. Everybody has their opinion, and that's all well and good, but trying to throw around "this guy is only an 87, but this guy is a 90" is goofy.
Just my opinion.
Didn't see this before I posted, but it's worth quoting.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I'm thinking not but for giggles and grins I'll give you two . One of them will go to the Rams a decent team and the other will get 8 sacks .
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It started off purely illustrative of the idea that a QB who may be of lower "total grade," quality, ranking, worth 5 spots lower so trade back - however you want to describe it - might be of greater benefit to a team than the higher graded, etc. DE, WR, whatever, non-QB.
Agreed
That's why I asked others if they truly believe the top 3 are all of that and fell, If Clowney was picked #1 would people be willing to trade back up and get the QB and fill the 2 most important positions on the team in one draft.
If they/you were willing to trade back up to say 8 how much would you be willing to give up? A Cleveland/Atl type trade shouldn't be out of the question if you truly believe in the top 3 QB's. (Which I don't)
Yeah , that was the intent an illustrative tool .... in another thread. Now its taken on a life of its own.
Zero of them.
No player has a greater impact upon a teams success or failure than its starting QB. NONE.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Google: "common interview questions"
It's about the same 20 recycled or reworded every time. I will generally practice saying those in front of someone, generally different family members or my girl. Then I try to use the research I did on the company or my past experiences to better answer the question/questions asked.
I do the same thing with raise proposals.
As for Bray... I'll believe it when I see it, which I believe will be never. We already had 2 UDFAs starting for NFL teams this year, which unfortunately for my Alma Mater was 1 too many.
A few years ago when I started joining these forums and talking about the draft I would always find my dark horse QBs that I thought had real potential. Today I know (from my experience and obviously my opinion), it's a waste of time. I haven't seen one once. I can also argue Tyler Bray or Case Keenum could have won a Super Bowl on the Seahawks too, that's obviously another debate though.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I understand it as an illustration to make that point, but it seems to have grown, perhaps accidentally, into something else.
I think the quoted point can't really be argued, especially when you consider that any of these players can go complete bust. The QB is the most important position on the field. He has the largest impact on the game and acquiring one that is in the top tier is extremely difficult. They also tend to last much longer due to the fact that the skills that set them apart don't deteriorate at the rate of elite receivers, DEs, etc.