TexansFTW
Veteran
Rams trade the #2 to Cleveland/Oakland @ 4/5 who drafts him, otherwise #3 w/ the Jags.
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Teddy Bridgewater
- Thread starter revan
- Start date
Rams trade the #2 to Cleveland/Oakland @ 4/5 who drafts him, otherwise #3 w/ the Jags.
BigBull
Rookie
Or the Rams take him themselves, because Bradford has been a disappointment and is injured.
Sent from the future...
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Jacksonville.
EDIT: At least, Jacksonville. But like others said, he could go earlier and there could be some jockeying to get him.
I would be OK with that, With or without Teddy the Texans aren't winning the SB next yr. So I'm willing to wait a yr and get a Luck/RG3 type QB in 2015. Instant gratification seems to be the phrase of the day.
stingray
Hall of Fame
E type
So you think a new coach will come in and go 2-15 again? Because thats the type of record its going to take to get the 1st pick.
So you think a new coach will come in and go 2-15 again? Because thats the type of record its going to take to get the 1st pick.
BigBull
Rookie
I think Teddy is going to be a better pro qb than any of the qbs in the 2015 draft. The 2015 may more qbs likely to be good qbs, I think TB will better than any of them.
Sent from the future...
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
RG3's skill set, he's just not as quick to take off and run...His arm isn't nearly as strong as rodgers' is and his throwing mechanics & footwork are much more robotic....like he's been taught to throw it that way to make sure he gets the most arm behind it he can muster.....unlike Rodgers who has so much arm, he can just sling it without his feet being set alot of the time....
The next best comparison is Nick Foles...
drs23
Veteran
Several comments have been made about TB's mechanics, specifically his release point. It's been said that he releases the ball about ear level. After going back and reviewing his highlights as well as watching him feast on Miami this is a very valid point. Fact is, it might be stretching it a little as it often seems below "earhole level". When watching Orten last night it looked like his release was at least 12" - 18" higher. As in WAY ABOVE his head. Is this a fatal flaw or something a "Quarterback Whisperer" can whisper him out of? It seems to me that muscle memory that engrained would be very difficult to alter consistently, especially "under fire".
Is that sound reasoning or am I all wet?
Is that sound reasoning or am I all wet?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
A low release point is a major problem and unlikely to be fixed...that said, I have not noticed that Bridgewater consistently releases it low, though I have seen sidearm throws when he is scrambling and a trying to create. He does not have an overhead delivery like orton, that is definitely true!
Blake
MMQB
I will have to rewatch some game tape and focus on that a bit more. I feel that low release points are something that most college QBs need to work on. I doubt Orton has had that high of a release point while in college.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
If he was wearing an A&M jersey in this highlight his detractors on this board would suddenly disappear.
bhsman
Rookie
Bridgewater's or Manziel's?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
On average, when a team goes 2-14 and replaces the coach, they go about 6-10 the next year. That's at least in the ballpark to trade up.
With that said, I'm not going to be surprised if we have another 2 win season depending on how big of a change we go through.
drs23
Veteran
No doubt. Collingsworth even asked him about it during their pre-game interview/research the day prior to last night's game. Orten's response: Heck yeah I've been working on it. I'm sitting behind Romo, what else am I gonna do?.
That tells me it can be addressed but I guess my question is how long does/would it take and how badly would it affect TB during the "relearning" process?
I'm going to pay special attention to it tomorrow night while Rick and I are scouting Bortels.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I disagree somewhat. It's not a major problem...but as it is with short qbs, it can be a problem sometimes if you don't know how to find your passing lanes & move around in the pocket...As long as he can do those 2 things well he'll be fine & i wouldn't mess with it too much b/c you could jack up his accuracy. Phillip Rivers has done pretty well in the league & his release is the lowest i've seen on any qb.
Number19
Hall of Fame
A low release point is definitely something to be concerned about. David Carr had a low release point that the Texans tried to correct with no success. In the NFL where the players overall will be bigger and quicker, it will be almost impossible to be a "pocket passer". Bridgewater will have to use his feet to find lanes to get the ball downfield. Think J.J. Watt and the problems he created batting down passes. This is not to say that he can't be successful in the NFL. I just think it will be difficult for him to be a pocket passer, and most evaluations says this is his forte.
TexansFTW
Veteran
lol, well said.
If we go 2-14 again and didn't draft a QB that means we really screwed up this draft.
The Dolphins and the Chiefs both made the playoffs though coming off similar seasons, now it's our turn.
See DRS23 post about 2-3 above mine. Kyle Orton said that he worked to make his release point that high, therefore it is fixable.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
so what is he doing in this gif that Manziel hasn't done yet Manziel is an automatic bust and Bridgewater is the next coming? GTFO..
Bridgewater has done nothing that Manziel hasn't done, and Manziel did it against far better competition. Yet Bridgewater is "NFL" ready?
Both these guys could be huge busts or great NFL QBs, it all a crap shoot. Best thing for the Texans to do is trim fat, find a veteran QB that can win now or help win now, and let the young QB develop for the next couple of years while the Texans rebuild.
TexansFTW
Veteran
lol, hardly impossible bro. Working the pocket finds you lanes. Ask Rivers if it's been impossible for him to be a pocket passer. Stafford throws side arm quite a bit too.
While we praise Kyle Orton's high release point he got the ball batted down by Conner Barwin on a crucial 4th and short last night with 3 mins left. I thought of this in like 10 seconds off the top of my head, if I did research I could find a plethora or guys doing the "impossible".
Johnny M has sick talent, no one can deny it, he's got a few basic things working against him though.
1st and foremost is his height. We've had 2 exceptions to the rule in the last 10 years in Brees and Wilson (and I personally feel we've crowned Wilson far too early).
Why don't Texas Tech QBs ever get drafted early and succeed in the NFL? The system they come from. Don't forget Kevin Sumlin came from Texas Tech and implements a similar system in A&M. Despite what everyone believes A&M isn't SEC Football, they are still just a Big 12 team playing in the SEC.
You might recall a short gun-slinger that Sumlin coached right before Johnny Football, his name was Case Keenum. I think Johnny could win in the NFL, it's not crazy to believe it, but these are some of the knocks he has against him. In the new NFL no QBs get sat anymore unless they are playing behind a legend or not good enough to start.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000304701/article/teddy-bridgewater-a-secondrounder-afc-scout-says
Teddy Bridgewater 'a second-rounder,' AFC scout says.
"Bridgewater is viewed by many as a potential No. 1 overall pick, but one AFC college director told NFL Media reporter Albert Breer that Bridgewater is "a second-rounder. Shorter and smallish in size, but he has solid arm strength, he's a good athlete, solid accuracy. Not dynamic or a special talent, but he has NFL starter-caliber skills, and he's a good kid with all the intangibles."
Another AFC scouting director said Bridgewater has a lot going for him: "He's accurate, poised, smart, productive."
But the scouting director also has issues with Bridgewater.
"The body type is the concern," he said. "You're going to have to see him at the combine. He looks small and skinny to me. But he gets rid of the ball so quick and makes such good decisions, maybe you can live with that."
Teddy Bridgewater 'a second-rounder,' AFC scout says.
"Bridgewater is viewed by many as a potential No. 1 overall pick, but one AFC college director told NFL Media reporter Albert Breer that Bridgewater is "a second-rounder. Shorter and smallish in size, but he has solid arm strength, he's a good athlete, solid accuracy. Not dynamic or a special talent, but he has NFL starter-caliber skills, and he's a good kid with all the intangibles."
Another AFC scouting director said Bridgewater has a lot going for him: "He's accurate, poised, smart, productive."
But the scouting director also has issues with Bridgewater.
"The body type is the concern," he said. "You're going to have to see him at the combine. He looks small and skinny to me. But he gets rid of the ball so quick and makes such good decisions, maybe you can live with that."
Nope, I think the Texans will be picking in the 10-15 range and with 4 QB's better than any QB in this draft one should fall to the 8-10 range. How much would it take to trade up to 8 say from 12? Switching places in the 1st plus a 2015 3d and 5th? That's what it cost for the Ravens to trade up with the Texans and pick Flacco and they traded up from 26 to 15, so it might not even cost that much.
The added bonus is that you get a better QB.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
I think we should try to trade down, pick Jake Matthews, grab AJ McCarron in the 2nd or 3rd, and then build depth with the rest.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
This throw is a definite no-no in the NFL. As impressive as it is that he gets it to the WR and in a fairly tight spot at that, that is like the most ridiculous (in a lot of bad ways) throw I've seen made in awhile. He's not just throwing off his back foot, he's almost parallel with the ground before he lets it go almost submarine style. I haven't seen quite as many throws from Teddy where he kind of yolo's em out there quite that badly but he did make the throw and it did go for a TD and it wasn't like the receiver bailed him out either.
EDIT: okay parallel is a complete exaggeration but he's doing the worst kind of backfoot throw and his motion while releasing is weird as hell.
Allstar
Bona fide
The WR had like 3-4 steps on the defender and Teddy threw it nearly out of the end zone. It wasn't a risky throw.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
His mechanics completely broke down there and I don't think an NFL DB is giving that much space to a guy in the end zone. The risk in the throw came from the mechanics he used to get it threre more than the decision to throw the ball.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
b0ng said:
Have you seen the Texans secondary?
Allstar
Bona fide
Agreed, but if the space isn't there, I doubt he makes the throw.
This is a very risky proposition. There are several things that could go wrong here:
1. Draft position - who knows where we end up drafting next season. Luck/RG3 types typically go in the top 3 - everything lower than that means there are some questionmarks.
2. No prospect is a lock. This year we can take who we like most. It is not a guarantee that he pans out, but there also is no guarantee that any one of next years QB pans out. There always are several QBs that scouts and fans love that just doesn`t make it in the NFL. Difference is, we can take any one we like this year, we won`t have that luxury next year.
We basically have the chance to take the highest rated QB this year - or hope that anyone worth a damn will be available when we pick next year. And history shows, that no sure thing will be available lower than #3 (How many later QBs pan out? For every Roethlisberger and Wilson there are 20 Gabberts and Leinarts).
I could understand this discussion if a clear top prospect was available. But there are so many questionmarks around Clowney and everybody else just seem like top5-top10 talents, but not even top 3 talents.
So, if it was really like "wait a year and you get a real franchise QB" I´d be all for it. But the reality is, if there is one or even two QBs like that in next years draft we won`t be in a position to draft them or have to draft about our whole other picks to get him (remember what it took to get RG3). So, let`s hope we luck out with Bridgewater or whoever we rate highest.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Proper mechanics would have got him sandwiched and sacked for a 6-10 yard loss. He avoided the sack, avoided a big hit, got the ball out while still looking down field and avoiding all this pressure, found an open receiver for a TD.
Yet you still find flaw in this play? Be honest with yourself. You hate Teddy B and will hate him no matter what. You likely love A&M and won't enjoy any other scenario that doesn't have us with an Aggie in the first round (Matthews or John F). Derek Newton sucks, yes, but a 4th round pick (he was a 7th) would still be more than enough of an upgrade not to waste your most important pick in years.
As a UH alumni and proud Cougar I finally got my dream this year with Case Keenum as the starting QB of the Texans. I kind of wish I could have continued being naive at this point.
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BullNation4Life
All Pro
They are saying Bridgewater is "too short by NFL standards" so that whole "height" knock is simply BS. In this day and age of the spread offense and playing from the shotgun, height has nothing to do with success...
Oh and Sumlin was never at Texas Tech, ever. He was an assistant at TAMU, went to Oklahoma, The HC at Houston then on the TAMU.
Reason the Tech QBs never worked out is because they were ahead of their time in the traditional NFL. They were running offense that Chip Kelley is running now in the NFL. Had that type of offense been implemented during the hey day of the Tech QB, they could have flourished.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Whoever "They" is, "They" need to be discredited.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Sadly he will not be playing our secondary. I'm sure he'd love to tear up some Brice McCain but he'll have to settle for doing it in practice (but hopefully not for long).
toronto
Hall of Fame
To me there isn't a debate. You take bridgewater. Who knows what happens with Winston or Mariotta? Winston could get in more trouble, Mariotta could suffer a terrible injury....in the meantime, a very good QB is ready for ou now and immediately upgrades your biggest need. IMHFO
TexansFTW
Veteran
You're right. I was mixing up Kliff K, who was his OC. Definitely wrong there.
Graham Harrell made it to the NFL though. The only snap I saw him take he fumbled.
Just being honest. Kid threw the ball off his back foot. I don't have an issue with that as much as some, because it happens all the time in the NFL. The 11 guys on the other side of the ball get paid to make the QB do things he's not supposed to & a lot of them (JJ Watt) are pretty good at it.
He threw it off his back foot & still had enough arm to get a lot of air under that ball & the ball travels something like 40 yards down the field.
What I do have an issue with, is that the play was designed as a double move & Bridgewater didn't look at any other route. Had he rather stayed in the pocket & took a hit while trying to get the ball to one of the other two routes... I'd have more respect for his toughness & ability to read a defense.
What I don't understand is how guys will drop their shorts & are ready to have Bridgewater's baby after seeing a play like that, but hate on Johnny Manziel who makes that play look effortless.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Scroll back up to that video. there was no time for a double move to develop.
I respect you bro and like a lot of what you say, but having more respect for his toughness & ability to read a defense by taking an unnecessary big hit/sack is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard in a QB evaluation.
I think when John Football does those plays are a huge factor in why he is even considered 1st round material by SOME. If John F couldn't do those plays he would have never won a Heisman and he wouldn't even be mentioned on ESPN the volume he is.
If John Football was 6'3" or taller EVERYONE would AT LEAST be talking about and considering him. If John Football was 6'3"+ AND played in a pro style offense I don't doubt for a second this whole Teddy B thread would be about John Football. I know he'd definitely be hard for me not to consider and I've been a Teddy B fan for a long time.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Because Bridgewater makes that play only when he has to. The rest of the game he's standing tall in the pocket, facing down the blitz, and delivering strikes. Exactly what he's going to have to do in the NFL. Manziel makes that play 20 times a game because his game is primarily dependent on that kind of improvisation. Like you already stated, that doesn't fly in the NFL.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I've thought that Teddy B would be the best QB in this draft class since his bowl game last season. I like the way he throws the ball, uses the pocket, and his ball placement.
That throw is more akin to Manziel than it is to Bridgewater, and at the college level sure it works. But if your QB's mechanics break down like that, then that is not a good pass, and for what it's worth his mechanics look awful in that one particular throw. All of the other highlights I'm perfectly fine with and are great throws at the college and NFL levels. Just not that particular one.
Blake
MMQB
I don`t really know what is wrong with that throw - at least not much. Sure, throwing off the back foot is not what you are supposed to do. But looking at that play, he extended the play, avoided the big hit, continued to look down field and threw a great ball. Awkward technique, sure, but he placed the ball where the defender had no chance to catch it while the wide receiver had a great chance. It looked like he knew he had the ability to place the ball where he wanted to.
Sure, he might have missed a read - but when bodies are flying at you, everybody misses a read, even Peyton. And he showed in the past that he is willing to take a big hit, but in this play it was the right thing to avoid it - not only for that game but also for his career.
So, even though there might be some minor nitpicks with that play - overall it was a great play. You want to see a QB being able to avoid pressure while keep looking down field and you want your QB to be able to deliver a great ball even when the pocket is collapsing and he can`t stand tall. Guys like Favre did it all the time. Teddy is a pocket passer first and foremost, but he is elite (for college QBs) in avoiding pressure and make things happen when the line collapses.
Bottom line is that, IMO, there's no franchise QB in this draft.
Just like last year when I wanted to trade down to get more picks (including future picks, if possible) since I didn't really like any WR enough in the first.
We could have Keenan Allen as the second WR plus extras to trade back up or trade away for future picks.
Could have another TE like Fauria who only caught seven TD passes and another LB to groom like Zavier Gooden.
Or maybe trade back up to get a complete LB like Sio Moore or a RT like Bakthiari.
The QB corp next year and in 2015 look more interesting.
The guy that plays for BOB at Penn St, for example, had a higher grade than Jameis Winston out of high school, 88 to 84.
Who knows, that might be the guy he will look to bring here.
There are some interesting-looking high school seniors, too.
There's a guy who graded out at 84, same as Winston, that I really like.
He's about 6'3-6'4, 225-235lbs.
And he moves like Mariotta, except he's a white dude.
And he's only fifth at the position.
I will post a video of him later.
Then there's another guy who's about the same size.
Son of the HC at Pittsburg university.
Another member of his close family, I can't remember the relationship, is among the Niners coaching staff.
That guy looks to have the work ethic and the drive.
Then there's another guy who's even bigger, and can still move.
Let them spend their first round picks on this draft class.
We'll have more chances on the next 2-3 classes.
It's not a bad idea to plan ahead if you're a new HC.
Make sure you have a good O-line to protect your QB of the future first.
That way, he can step into a good situation.
Just like last year when I wanted to trade down to get more picks (including future picks, if possible) since I didn't really like any WR enough in the first.
We could have Keenan Allen as the second WR plus extras to trade back up or trade away for future picks.
Could have another TE like Fauria who only caught seven TD passes and another LB to groom like Zavier Gooden.
Or maybe trade back up to get a complete LB like Sio Moore or a RT like Bakthiari.
The QB corp next year and in 2015 look more interesting.
The guy that plays for BOB at Penn St, for example, had a higher grade than Jameis Winston out of high school, 88 to 84.
Who knows, that might be the guy he will look to bring here.
There are some interesting-looking high school seniors, too.
There's a guy who graded out at 84, same as Winston, that I really like.
He's about 6'3-6'4, 225-235lbs.
And he moves like Mariotta, except he's a white dude.
And he's only fifth at the position.
I will post a video of him later.
Then there's another guy who's about the same size.
Son of the HC at Pittsburg university.
Another member of his close family, I can't remember the relationship, is among the Niners coaching staff.
That guy looks to have the work ethic and the drive.
Then there's another guy who's even bigger, and can still move.
Let them spend their first round picks on this draft class.
We'll have more chances on the next 2-3 classes.
It's not a bad idea to plan ahead if you're a new HC.
Make sure you have a good O-line to protect your QB of the future first.
That way, he can step into a good situation.
Doesn't matter, I was wrong. On that play, it was 3rd down, meaning they had to convert to stay on the field. He was looking at the slot receiver to his left first. Probably because he expected his pass rush to not hold up. He sets up to throw the ball to the slot receiver, but notices the corner/safety is all over him.
He decides to pull it down & that's when the pass rush is on him. He does his little dance & takes the shot down field.
Good play. I see no fault on this play. Excuse me.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
With the rule changes protecting the QBs, perhaps the frail frame is no longer as much of an issue. But the low release point in a league with tall linemen learning the ball batting techniques used by JJ will be a concern.
By-the-by..... when I'm looking at these "highlights" the first thing I'm looking for is if a play could have been made within the system. When we say a player only does that "when he has" to, that's usually not accurate.
Players don't trust the system, or they don't trust the player on the other end. They decide not to throw the ball, protection doesn't hold up, he does a little dance & either makes a big play or don't.
That's one of the reasons, I think, a QB like Pat White can be "excellent" in college, but not so much in the NFL. An exceptional player can carry a college team more so than in the NFL when the talent is more concentrated.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Texian
Hall of Fame
The comment was "They" say Bridgewater is to short, he's 6'3". That's why I thought "They" should be discredited. TB is a skinny Geno. Now that's not a dig. In fact under circumstances Geno ended up having a respectable rookie year.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Teddy has more QB in him than Geno . Geno looked all world then vanished 1/2 through the year . Teddy shows up every game and leads his team .
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm just piling on to the argument with "They." "They" get it wrong a lot.