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Takeaways from the Bucs game.

badboy

Hall of Fame
If the Texans lose in the AFC Championship game, will fans fill NRG to welcome them back home?
maybe if OBrien promises to go kick the "SOB" down next season? Remember the excitement those two years with Lov Ya Blue? I see/hear nothing like that today?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I hate to break it to you, but the Texans are on the level of those clownshow organizations. We are not even close to viewed as being in the same class as historically-successful franchises. We are in the Browns, Lions, Redskins, etc tier of terrible, underachieving, garbage franchises. The comical franchises that can never get out of their own way or fulfill potential on years they somehow, someway even have potential. We're a joke. Nobody respects this team. And why would they? We have proven what we are---time and time again. And there's literally nothing to indicate that will change anytime soon. Unless you count *finally* beating the Patriots a couple weeks back.

Oh by the way, the Cardinals made the Super Bowl in the last 10 years and almost won it if not for a couple of miracle plays and had a pretty sustained run of success over a decent stretch. The Raiders are closer to being back a legitimate franchise than we are with Jon Gruden's leadership at the helm and are moving to a city which requires the franchise to be successful on the field so that it is successful off the field otherwise it will crash and burn, and the Jaguars are terrible and suck nutsacks but even they were a couple of terrible plays away from making a Super Bowl just a couple years ago.

And we're six years in with our dicks in hand waiting for the viagra to kick in.
So let's take advantage of Gruden wanting to achieve more than 8-8 in 2020! They have players and draft picks we can utilize to go another level. Both teams would take an 'ouch' yet should be better for it.
 

Earl34

Veteran
this is the play I mentioned. I'm not sure why Hyde looked around to left then to the right but was wide open. Watson seemed to have no clue his RB was open. Why? If 23 didn't remain in to block why did he drift around left side? I can understand wanting a receiver deeper but #4 had time to check down. This is a major concern I have for our QB.
Watson and the RBs don't appear to be on the same page. Here is another play that appears out of sync. Johnson has a habit of raising his hands, but is not always in position to make the catch. On this play, if Watson just waits a second it's a TD. If Johnson turns his head quicker, it's a TD. Keeping in mind, Johnson was not the primary option on this play, did he delay release on his own or was it an option? Also, look at the WR spacing to the right.

 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
Watson and the RBs don't appear to be on the same page. Here is another play that appears out of sync. Johnson has a habit of raising his hands, but is not always in position to make the catch. On this play, if Watson just waits a second it's a TD. If Johnson turns his head quicker, it's a TD. Keeping in mind, Johnson was not the primary option on this play, did he delay release on his own or was it an option? Also, look at the WR spacing to the right.

Yep, looks like Johnson should release as soon as the Corner/Safety commits, instead, there's an additional delay. The right-side spacing only makes sense if you're trying to pull the coverage away from Johnson (which it did).
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Watson and the RBs don't appear to be on the same page. Here is another play that appears out of sync. Johnson has a habit of raising his hands, but is not always in position to make the catch. On this play, if Watson just waits a second it's a TD. If Johnson turns his head quicker, it's a TD. Keeping in mind, Johnson was not the primary option on this play, did he delay release on his own or was it an option? Also, look at the WR spacing to the right.

Another play I was referring to but Watson drove that ball and out of Duke's reach. Not sure why Watson was up in pocket; looked like he thought he'd run then instincts said no way and he dumped. 100% on #4 not Duke. An unrattled QB should have completed that pass for TD to Johnson.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Yep, looks like Johnson should release as soon as the Corner/Safety commits, instead, there's an additional delay. The right-side spacing only makes sense if you're trying to pull the coverage away from Johnson (which it did).
The ball was not catchable even if Duke released quicker.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
It’s hard to throw an accurate ball when getting hit as he throws. If Johnson released sooner Watson could have have thrown it better. By the time Johnson releases Watson is about to get hit.
As I said Watson should not have been up in pocket where forced to throw so soon. Getting hit did not impact Watson pass as if he had taken some heat off of it and put closer to Duke it would have been 6. Two bad decisions, up in pocket decreasing throwing time and then driving ball rather than soft lob that Duke may have been able to bring in if ball closer to him. I like Watson but cannot ignore his decisions. He gets hit all the time & sometime still completes--so it could have been done even more so if his pocket location had been different. I think you are allowing him too much of an excuse.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
We all know Watson had a bad game... but why?
well JB if you look at just the plays posted, he is making bad decisions. Yes, other plays are on other players but several at Denver and TB alone were his.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
well JB if you look at just the plays posted, he is making bad decisions. Yes, other plays are on other players but several at Denver and TB alone were his.
Agreed, but why? Is he injured, scared of being injured, or just having a bad day? Much as I want to, I can't put it all on OB
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
We all know Watson had a bad game... but why?
Speaking for myself, even though I'm pointing out where he could have done better, I'm not saying he had a bad game.

The only point I want to make is if the outcome of half a dozen plays bounced our way, if they were executed better, I don't think any of us would be complaining about the play calling.

Plays were there to be made.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
Speaking for myself, even though I'm pointing out where he could have done better, I'm not saying he had a bad game.

The only point I want to make is if the outcome of half a dozen plays bounced our way, if they were executed better, I don't think any of us would be complaining about the play calling.

Plays were there to be made.
Agreed. And Tampa missed a LOT of plays to.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Agreed, but why? Is he injured, scared of being injured, or just having a bad day? Much as I want to, I can't put it all on OB
I also agree. When Watson is on, he has a bounce to his drop backs, his footwork and accuracy is great. In this game, I didn't see that bounce or accuracy. I think @CloakNNNdagger mentioned an ankle sprain. However, it has not been on the injury report.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Speaking for myself, even though I'm pointing out where he could have done better, I'm not saying he had a bad game.

The only point I want to make is if the outcome of half a dozen plays bounced our way, if they were executed better, I don't think any of us would be complaining about the play calling.

Plays were there to be made.
O’Brien needs to design or use more plays that help his players better.
The defense gets paid, too.
You can’t expect the players to excecute/beat the defenders all the time.
That’s what a HC and an OC is for.

Instead, O’Brien turned our receivers into no-names like those guys on the Buccs’ team.

.....

Besides all those first-down runs, obviously, that help no QB.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
O’Brien needs to design or use more plays that help his players better.
The defense gets paid, too.
You can’t expect the players to excecute/beat the defenders all the time.
That’s what a HC and an OC is for.

Instead, O’Brien turned our receivers into no-names like those guys on the Buccs’ team.

.....

Besides all those first-down runs, obviously, that help no QB.
not enough pre-snap motion against a young secondary playing man. They had plenty of time to figure out what to do. I think bunches or more motion would have made for some blown coverages the way TB was playing and the who they were. Seems BOB thought we were so much better he would just out talent them or something I cannot put my finger on. We have man and zone beaters, and TK is right plays were there to be made, but against TB the approach was a bit baffling especially on 1st down.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
this is the play I mentioned. I'm not sure why Hyde looked around to left then to the right but was wide open. Watson seemed to have no clue his RB was open. Why? If 23 didn't remain in to block why did he drift around left side? I can understand wanting a receiver deeper but #4 had time to check down. This is a major concern I have for our QB.
How do you know Hyde wasn't supposed to stay in and block, thus Watson didn't realize he wasn't In there blocking?

When Watson plants his foot to throw, the DB on Hopkins is still running with him, in that moment Watson is changing his mind, while the DB is simultaneously deciding to flatten out. Hopkins comes open as Watson is pulling the ball down. I agree he should have went to Johnson quicker after that, but he ended up making the right read and we did get a first down. Tunsil shouldn't have held on the play.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
When Watson plants his foot to throw, the DB on Hopkins is still running with him, in that moment Watson is changing his mind, while the DB is simultaneously deciding to flatten out. Hopkins comes open as Watson is pulling the ball down. I agree he should have went to Johnson quicker after that, but he ended up making the right read and we did get a first down. Tunsil shouldn't have held on the play.
I can respect that take on what happened on that play. Especially about finding Duke & Duke making the line to gain.

But, I think Watson's read should have been the Safety. If the safety doesn't break towards Hopkins when Watson's back foot hits, then the ball goes to Hopkins. He's got to throw it ahead of Hopkins so the DB can't make a play on the ball.

The Safety looks to still be backpedaling when Watson hits his third step. He shouldn't be able to change direction & get to the ball.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
O'Brien forced 3rd down and long with his ridiculous 1st down running. The defense got to him early and that set the table for the rest of the game.

Did Watson also just happen to have a bad game? I think so.
How many times did they run it between the tackles on first down ?!

I don't know if that has an effect on Watson or not , if you go back to the pre draft evaluations , my main gripe on him was accuracy and that's been an issue in most of the "poor games". And not necessarily on difficult throws but on many occasions he misses easy ones.
That and the fact that he misses quite a few reads ….

The more I think about it , the more I want to see him in 12 / 13 / 22 packages with limited options and loads of play action - if your first two reads aren't there check it down , take off running or chuck it in the stands.

That's basically what he did in college - Dabo had him reading one side of the field , usually two choices with a check down option.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I hate to break it to you, but the Texans are on the level of those clownshow organizations. We are not even close to viewed as being in the same class as historically-successful franchises. We are in the Browns, Lions, Redskins, etc tier of terrible, underachieving, garbage franchises. The comical franchises that can never get out of their own way or fulfill potential on years they somehow, someway even have potential. We're a joke. Nobody respects this team. And why would they? We have proven what we are---time and time again. And there's literally nothing to indicate that will change anytime soon. Unless you count *finally* beating the Patriots a couple weeks back.

Oh by the way, the Cardinals made the Super Bowl in the last 10 years and almost won it if not for a couple of miracle plays and had a pretty sustained run of success over a decent stretch. The Raiders are closer to being back a legitimate franchise than we are with Jon Gruden's leadership at the helm and are moving to a city which requires the franchise to be successful on the field so that it is successful off the field otherwise it will crash and burn, and the Jaguars are terrible and suck nutsacks but even they were a couple of terrible plays away from making a Super Bowl just a couple years ago.

And we're six years in with our dicks in hand waiting for the viagra to kick in.
17 yrs of mediocrity at best. What I wonder is why people are so willing to give Smithiak's 8-12 yrs brand of mediocrity not only a pass but make every excuse you can think of for them? Are y'all the least bit curious as to why Kubiak was able to go to Denver and win a SB but he couldn't do it here?

These same posters aren't willing to give BOB much benefit of the doubt at all, when in truth the franchise is in yr to of recovering from the failed RS/Smithiak regime. It takes some time to overcome the level of incompetence of the previous regime. As a parting gift RS left BOB a QB that isn't good enough to win a SB and will be BOB's ultimate undoing. Doesn't really matter whether BOB is fired or not, this org looks like it's going to be stuck in mediocrity for another 5-7 yrs.

While I think Badboy's ideas are off the chain and will never happen due to marketing reasons, (Very McNair like to put marketing over winning) what he proposes would be a roll of the dice but it's the only thing that can break this franchise out of mediocrity as they currently exist, regardless of who the HC is. Which assures change in the Texans org will never happen.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
this is the play I mentioned. I'm not sure why Hyde looked around to left then to the right but was wide open. Watson seemed to have no clue his RB was open. Why? If 23 didn't remain in to block why did he drift around left side? I can understand wanting a receiver deeper but #4 had time to check down. This is a major concern I have for our QB.
Yep, if Hyde makes 1 man miss that's a big play.

Carter is a young guy who got too deep in his route. He's supposed to be a shallow crosser, drawing the attention of the LB's. He run a bad route and no, the design of this play was good. The QB missed the correct read.
 

TejasTom

All Pro
5:50 2nd Qtr
3rd & 13

View attachment 5196

What is Watson waiting on here? I know we like to blame BO'b for everything, but that's Hopkins at the line to gain breaking in. Watson is thinking. The ball should be gone, if he reads the safety who hasn't left the hash. That's a first down right there

Or he could throw the ball to Hyde who has all kinds of green in front of him. Maybe he picks it up. Maybe he doesn't.

Instead he dances for a little bit then throws the check down to Duke to the right. He's got a man 3 yards in front of him, has to juke one guy & beat another to the corner.

Tunsil gets called for a hold after Watson should have gotten rid of the ball.

There's lots to dislike about this play. The end-zone view is in way too tight to see anything useful.

1. Carter is running down the line to gain but Hop adjust when he sees him. I think Hop down the sideline would have been better than turning inside.
2. Still and Carter started side by side on the right side of the formation. If Carter turns outside his safety would be running away from Hop instead of towards him.
3. Duke is late out of the back field. I think it would have pulled up the guy by the bottom 30 that is in front of Stills.

Despite the bad route combination against this defense Hop or Stills could have made the first if the ball is out on time.
 

Attachments

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
17 yrs of mediocrity at best. What I wonder is why people are so willing to give Smithiak's 8-12 yrs brand of mediocrity not only a pass but make every excuse you can think of for them?
It's not really that hard to figure out. Kubiak was brought in mainly to fix our offense.

He did.

Before he got here the defense was ok & the thought was if he could score some points, we could win some games. & we did.

Defense got worse & worse. I didn't blame Kubiak too much because he's not a defensive coach. His first choice for DC was denied & we had to "settle" for what was available.

First year Frank Bush was our DC, I think we did pretty good. 2nd year not so much.

Then Wade came in. We had a top 5 defense & a top 5 offense & couldn't win when it really counted.

So we go get BO'b.

We still couldn't win the big games, the prime time games, or the games that mattered. & the offense sucked. Still had a top 10 defense. Then he starts over twice every year. Once when Training camp starts & again when the regular season starts.

Can't build something if you're tearing it all down & starting over again & again & again.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
Watson and the RBs don't appear to be on the same page. Here is another play that appears out of sync. Johnson has a habit of raising his hands, but is not always in position to make the catch. On this play, if Watson just waits a second it's a TD. If Johnson turns his head quicker, it's a TD. Keeping in mind, Johnson was not the primary option on this play, did he delay release on his own or was it an option? Also, look at the WR spacing to the right.


I'm no "studied" expert ,but this play pisses me off.

Single high -man coverage. 5 rush on snap 2 come later. I don't think it's a delayed blitz on paper...

1st: the route spacing on the play looks miserable. AND it's the wide side of the field. 1 corner, 1 out, 1 crosser. During most of that progression 2 defenders could've been enough. It was in the red zone so theres no threat of depth for defenses. The crosser probably would've got open but it took to long to develop.

2nd: is this an example of Watson getting only half the field to read? It looks like it.

3rd: te on the near side. I dunno if he was audibled off a route to block due to the blitz? He stayed in and that likely brought an extra defender on the delayed blitz. (The defender isn't in zone so once his man commits to block, he rushes.)

4th: rb assignment- it does look to me (because of steps and seems hes counting) like a delayed route. Once the defenders commit on delayed rush he takes off. Problem is he runs right past the blitzer without a chip or even a faint at a chip. And that defender looks like the one who got Watson.

Overall play scheme:

-Looking for 2 potential rubs on the route for crosser.

-corner route not bad against a cover 1 ,but ineffective in redzone due to no depth.

-crosser cut a few yards deep (seemingly by design) there is no quick or (hot) option on the route despite the blitz. Design is slow.

-rb route poorly executed.

-pass was poor under duress

- play design sucked specifically in the red zone.


Most of us have likely drawn up better plays in madden.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
I made suggestion in the offseason not to go with FB and use TE when needed. That seems to be happening some but we usually go empty or with Hyde blocking a bit. I don't think Duke blocks much..even if it is the assignment.

We've seen tes in the backfield blocking this year. So why even bother with a fb on the roster?

And yeah, Duke is not a blocker.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
We've seen tes in the backfield blocking this year. So why even bother with a fb on the roster?

And yeah, Duke is not a blocker.
A 7th rounder usually isn't anything more than a Teams player, so his "official" position as fullback doesn't really mean much. Gillaspia hasn't taken a single offensive snap since week 8, and has just 13 for the season. He's not here to be a FB.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
A 7th rounder usually isn't anything more than a Teams player, so his "official" position as fullback doesn't really mean much. Gillaspia hasn't taken a single offensive snap since week 8, and has just 13 for the season. He's not here to be a FB.
Understood fully. Has he done enough on st to warrant a roster spot? Idk. I dont believe so.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
Why is it you don't think so? I mean, is Crossen, Adams, Howell, Moore or Mingo doing enough on Teams to warrant a spot?

The Texans do have the 4th best DVOA on Teams. Somebody's doing something to warrant a spot.
We are doing something right.

Still theres a disparity behind his play in games as a fullback and what benefits other players might have in positions we use.

We use the positions you referenced.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
We are doing something right.

Still theres a disparity behind his play in games as a fullback and what benefits other players might have in positions we use.

We use the positions you referenced.
AJ Moore has 8 snaps the whole season on defense. Buddy Howell has played 11 offensive snaps. Both less than Gillaspia has.

I get that we don't use a FB. But unless something goes horribly wrong or we're up 55-7 in a game, Howell, Moore, those guys aren't ever getting on the field either, regardless of if they play positions we actually use or not.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
AJ Moore has 8 snaps the whole season on defense. Buddy Howell has played 11 offensive snaps. Both less than Gillaspia has.

I get that we don't use a FB. But unless something goes horribly wrong or we're up 55-7 in a game, Howell, Moore, those guys aren't ever getting on the field either, regardless of if they play positions we actually use or not.
I get your point ,but those players play positions that need depth.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
A 7th rounder usually isn't anything more than a Teams player, so his "official" position as fullback doesn't really mean much. Gillaspia hasn't taken a single offensive snap since week 8, and has just 13 for the season. He's not here to be a FB.
I understand what you are saying.

But we used him as a fullback a few times & in the preseason. Looks like he's got skills & could help on offense.

I think he'd be a better option as a blocker out of the backfield with his low but stout pads. A better option than Hyde when he & Duke are in the backfield.

Hopefully this is BO'b being cautious with rookies & we'll see more of him on offense in the future.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
Understood fully. Has he done enough on st to warrant a roster spot? Idk. I dont believe so.
All teams decisions on the back of the roster are influenced by special teams. The Texans more so than some. My issue has been with such attention to coverage plates, where’s the effort to find a top notch return man?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
We've seen tes in the backfield blocking this year. So why even bother with a fb on the roster?

And yeah, Duke is not a blocker.
I would like to see Duke Johnson used more as a receiver and bring in another running back even if it's Buddy Howell already on our roster.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
All teams decisions on the back of the roster are influenced by special teams. The Texans more so than some. My issue has been with such attention to coverage plates, where’s the effort to find a top notch return man?
I thought Tyler Ervin and keke were supposed to be those guys. Hasn't panned out, but I'd love to see them get someone legit.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I thought Tyler Ervin and keke were supposed to be those guys. Hasn't panned out, but I'd love to see them get someone legit.
Tyler Ervin doing pretty good for the Packers this year... his 3rd (?) team?
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
not enough pre-snap motion against a young secondary playing man. They had plenty of time to figure out what to do. I think bunches or more motion would have made for some blown coverages the way TB was playing and the who they were. Seems BOB thought we were so much better he would just out talent them or something I cannot put my finger on. We have man and zone beaters, and TK is right plays were there to be made, but against TB the approach was a bit baffling especially on 1st down.
I really like this post. I'd love to see more motion as well and not just that - I want to see routes directly off that motion kinda like the rams used to do. If a wr in motion can get separation before the ball is even snapped it seems like a pretty strong advantage.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
Tyler Ervin doing pretty good for the Packers this year... his 3rd (?) team?
Is he? I need to check his stats. His college highlights were pretty damn good. I had higher expectations for him then most.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Is he? I need to check his stats. His college highlights were pretty damn good. I had higher expectations for him then most.
Well, he hasn't been with them long, but he did have a 45 yard return against the Bears
 


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