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Stop blaming O'Brien and start blaming the ownership and management

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I agree with letting see how things play out.

Coward, what he said was he thinks his team is better now than when Nuk was on the team and smartly didn't want to get into the personal stuff about Nuk. Can you blame him for not wanting to talk about a losing situation?

I don't, although after seeing your ignore list you should know a coward when you get up and look in the mirror in the morning.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Who signs the check? Cal... making it his job to control anyone below him. Maybe he is making the calls...we don't know. But it is on him
Don't recall hearing about Kraft coming down and telling Beli how to run his team...i.e. Draft, free agency, cuts, etc.

If OB has convinced Cal that he's the next Beli, then the McNair's are probably fine with him running the entire show. So OB's the Parliment = runs the show and Cal is the King = sits around and waves on que.

Jones gave Johnson full control and enjoyed success just like Kraft......then Jones figured he was the smartest guy in the room by letting Johnson go and running the organization himself. Johnson left and took success with him. Jones has nothing to hang hs hat on since he started running the show. Switzer's success was given to him on a silver platter by Johnson.

OB wanted full control and with full control comes full accountability.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Don't recall hearing about Kraft coming down and telling Beli how to run his team...i.e. Draft, free agency, cuts, etc.

If OB has convinced Cal that he's the next Beli, then the McNair's are probably fine with him running the entire show. So OB's the Parliment = runs the show and Cal is the King = sits around and waves on que.

Jones gave Johnson full control and enjoyed success just like Kraft......then Jones figured he was the smartest guy in the room by letting Johnson go and running the organization himself. Johnson left and took success with him. Jones has nothing to hang hs hat on since he started running the show. Switzer's success was given to him on a silver platter by Johnson.

OB wanted full control and with full control comes full accountability.
Which is why I'm looking forward to seeing how all of this plays out and BOB's 1st draft as GM.

There will finally be full accountability.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Who signs the check? Cal... making it his job to control anyone below him. Maybe he is making the calls...we don't know. But it is on him
In "theory" that is correct, but we all know Cal has nothing to do with much and is hands off. BOB is fully accountable here.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
In "theory" that is correct, but we all know Cal has nothing to do with much and is hands off. BOB is fully accountable here.
If Cal didn't like the direction the team is headed in there would be changes made. For instance do you think BOB traded Clowney/Nuk without Cal signing off on the move?
 

RGV82

Random guy
If Cal didn't like the direction the team is headed in there would be changes made. For instance do you think BOB traded Clowney/Nuk without Cal signing off on the move?
I think Cal "trusts" BOB and would sign off on anything BOB presents to him.
 

RGV82

Random guy
History shows the McNair's like their $$$$.

You're fooling yourself.
Not debating that, but BOB can easily convince Cal that he will benefit financially. BOB can convince Cal to let him be the starting QB as well, and he would probably go for it. BOB as GM, Coach and QB.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Don't recall hearing about Kraft coming down and telling Beli how to run his team...i.e. Draft, free agency, cuts, etc.
You've missed quite a lot then. I'll stick with recent history. Bill didn't want to lose Garoppolo. Kraft made him. Kraft recently said if Brady wanted to stay Brady would be there... not that he'd check with Bill.

NE is a lot better communicating their message to the public than the Texans. Belichick never gets into details. But there have been many happenings he wasn't happy with & had to grin & bear. Ocho Cinco was probably forced on him, trying to recapture that Randy Moss magic.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You've missed quite a lot then. I'll stick with recent history. Bill didn't want to lose Garoppolo. Kraft made him. Kraft recently said if Brady wanted to stay Brady would be there... not that he'd check with Bill.

NE is a lot better communicating their message to the public than the Texans. Belichick never gets into details. But there have been many happenings he wasn't happy with & had to grin & bear. Ocho Cinco was probably forced on him, trying to recapture that Randy Moss magic.
Agreed,

But why does the messaging to the public matter.

I'm the public and it doesn't matter to me.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
If Cal didn't like the direction the team is headed in there would be changes made. For instance do you think BOB traded Clowney/Nuk without Cal signing off on the move?
I think any criticism of O'Brien implies blame for Cal. Everyone knows he owns the team and is ultimately responsible. However, fans are as unlikely to directly credit Cal if O'Brien makes great picks in the mid rounds of the draft as they are to directly blame him when O'Brien makes horrible personnel moves.

Assume any past or future posts of mine that criticize O'Brien's leadership as a criticism of Cal McNair as well.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
But why does the messaging to the public matter.
Because of the way it's perceived. There may have been tension between BB & Kraft every step of the way, but since they're not meglomaniacs like Jones & Johnson, we never knew.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Because of the way it's perceived. There may have been tension between BB & Kraft every step of the way, but since they're not meglomaniacs like Jones & Johnson, we never knew.
I guess some people lead their lives by perception of what others think of them.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I guess some people lead their lives by perception of what others think of them.
No, it's about controlling the narrative. Either you're in control or the media is. I always thought BB was in control. Now we see Kraft does more than just sign the checks.

But they've always appeared to be on the same page. Looking back now a lot of the things that didn't make sense kinda does. The poor drafting, putting up with Gronk, Ocho Cinco, hell Randy Moss for that matter. Sure, it worked. But didn't fit the BB m.o..
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No, it's about controlling the narrative. Either you're in control or the media is. I always thought BB was in control. Now we see Kraft does more than just sign the checks.

But they've always appeared to be on the same page. Looking back now a lot of the things that didn't make sense kinda does. The poor drafting, putting up with Gronk, Ocho Cinco, hell Randy Moss for that matter. Sure, it worked. But didn't fit the BB m.o..
Hopefully this works out half as well for BOB
 
If Cal didn't like the direction the team is headed in there would be changes made. For instance do you think BOB traded Clowney/Nuk without Cal signing off on the move?
Exactly
Cal is hands off, but he might allow OB to move lower tier players like backup RB. However, Hopkins? No way Cal wasn't 100% the one who said "ok". If OB was to move JJ... even if JJ wanted to go (maybe to finish up with his brothers in Pitt) that Cal would be in the dark about it? No, so he signed off on the moves and that means as the one person who has MORE power than OB HE is accountable
 

zshawn10

All Pro
This is the story of how #Texans GM/HC Bill O’Brien came to be one of the most powerful figures in the NFL, and what he’s done with that power. Brought to you by @Fantasy_Mansion & I.

Link to listen: https://t.co/VsEXvfmZsF
— Evan Silva (@evansilva) April 15, 2020
"Bill O’Brien has been a failure in Houston and yet all he seems to do is accumulate more power with every failure. It’s a magic act."

"Patriots players had a nickname for Bill O’Brien. They called him ‘The Teapot’ because he could not control his temper."

"Came into the league in 2002; did not win the AFC South until 2011"

"Bob McNair spent most of his early and middle age life as a failed businessman but got rich when he founded Cogen Technologies, which he sold to Enron in 1999."

"Bob McNair is unable to spot the fraudulent coach because he doesn’t have the moral compass to be able to do that."

"Bob McNair purchased that stock at it’s peak, immediately liquidated it and bought the Texans. Maybe Bob McNair just got lucky or his timing was that impeccable, immediately buys the Texans with that money."

"No one ever talks about it. The Texans arose from dirty money."

"As the higher ups in the organization were in great turmoil & transition, Bill O’Brien was the lone constant. That is how he became one of the three most powerful coaches in the NFL."

"Just like Enron was built on a bed of lies, so have the Texans. W/L records can lie. Division championships can lie. If you look further & put some context behind who the Texans really have been under O’Brien, they haven’t been good. He has coached teams with negative point differentials three of the last four years. Watson dragged his team on the back the last two years and those are the only two seasons of O’Brien’s six where they’ve had double digit wins. Last year, they went 10-6, won a playoff game, really the Bills lost the game, had a negative point differential, 19th in Football Outsider’s DVOA team efficiency, below average team, awful on defense, below average offensive line, poorly coached offensively but Watson led the league in game winning drives (5). They won a ton of close games. 9-3 in one score games. One score games are coin flips. Texans got a bunch of fortunate coin flips. They finish 10-6."

"If you peel back the surface on this team, it’s rotten to the core. Their best defensive player is JJ Watt. He finished 10th among edge rushers on PFF. … Mercilus outside the Top 65 Edge Rushers on PFF. Cunningham outside the Top 20 on PFF. Conley our 50th ranked corner on PlayerProfiler.com. They don’t have a Top 50 corner on their roster in today’s NFL?"

"Does Bill O’Brien give the Texans any room for optimism going forward? The answer is a definitive no. Watson does for long term optimism. It goes beyond O’Brien’s recent run of franchise crushing trades. His coaching acumen is one of the most worrying aspects that people don’t talk about because the focus is on how bad of a GM he is. Over the past four years, O’Brien has had one of the highest rates of calling run plays after 1st-and-10 incompletions. He loves to run the ball on 2nd and long, which inevitably leads to 3rd-and-longs and puts so much on Deshaun Watson. Warren Sharp pointed out in his 2019 football preview O’Brien loves to call run plays for RBs after long runs. The success rate is really low, 33%, averaging 3 YPC. In 2018, O’Brien ran the ball on first down in the first half of games at the highest rate in the league. At his core, O’Brien is a run-run-pass coach which is terribly embarrassingly outdated."

"When did O’Brien get unlimited power? (Gaine was fired) June 7th, 2019.

The first two trades he makes are for RBs. Duke Johnson for the 97th selection. Very surprising at the time. Gives him the ball fewer than 8 times per game. He trades for Carlos Hyde in the same month & gives him the ball a ton. That’s his new Benjarvis Green-Ellis. Had some nice runs but he’s a RB that puts limit on your offense because of how ineffective in the pass game. O’Brien loved feeding him the rock and not giving it to Duke Johnson who was more efficient.

In early September, they acquired Tunsil, Stills, two future 3rd day picks for two firsts and a second. This was a ton to pay for two players whose contracts are about to expire. Never seen a player with more leverage than Tunsil. He still needs a new contract. It was an incredible amount of compensation. It did not make their line good. It was still at best average and likely well below average.

On the same day as the Tunsil trade, so does the Clowney trade to Seattle. Mingo, Martin & 3rd round pick in exchange for Clowney. 3rd rounder became #91. They trade #91 to the Raiders for Gareon Conley. So they got Mingo, Martin & Conley for Clowney.

A lot of it can be tied to ego. A lot of it can be tied to thinking you’re better than you are. The Texans haven’t been very good. Only two seasons of double digit win seasons in six years under O’Brien. They weren’t very good last year. They got fortunate in one score games and the Bills melted down.

Carrying ego over the our next trade, the Hopkins trade. David Johnson, 40th pick, 2021 4th rounder in exchange for Hopkins & 2020 4th rounder. This was an absolute robbery for the Cardinals. … You’ll hear Hopkins wanted a raise or they couldn’t pay Clowney but when they take on David Johnson’s deal, there’s no credibility to those explanations. Hopkins was traded because he had a personality conflict with O’Brien and O’Brien couldn’t be the bigger man and say ‘Look, I’ll deal with this. I have a great player. We have a small window. My WR has the best rapport with his QB of any QB/WR in the game. I don’t want to tread in those waters but O’Brien’s ego is so big, he allowed the personality conflict to be bigger than the game."

"57 is the hotbed of where to pick in this draft. Cooks has 5 concussions. He’s owed $20M the next two years. Again this idea they’re making these deals because of the salary cap is nonsense. He’s now been traded by the Saints, Patriots & Rams. Not as bad as the Hopkins trade but you’re betting on a player with a terrifying injury history who is not cheap & not productive in a long time."

"This is a lot of trades, future assets to be given away for questionable present assets, many who are expensive."

"He is running the Texans very much like Jeffrey Skilling ran Enron."

"Texans in the 2020 draft, widely regarded as a great draft, have no first round pick and only three picks in the Top 170. In next year’s draft, Dolphins have the Texans 1st & 2nd rounder."

"You know in your heart the best thing for the Texans is any way it takes to get Bill O’Brien out of there."

"It makes the most sense to just try to go for it all this year but in your heart of hearts, if you’re a true Texans fan & thinking long term, in the best interest of the organization, you want them to go 4-12 and O’Brien to get fired. That’s what’s best for the organization."

"4-year plan? The Texans don’t even have a 4-day plan. It’s whatever Bill O’Brien thinks when he wakes up in the morning. If you’re a Texans fan, you want to win but when you closely examine the talent profile, I just don’t see it. The Colts & Titans are improving. The path for the Texans to be competitive is vanishing in front of their feet."
 
After things Hopkins said... I'm curious if we will ever get the real story on the trade. And I don't support OB on the deal, but I am going to wait for the season and draft to see what happens. Right now it looks like a mistake but come say mid-season (depending on what they do because of Covid) we could just as well be saying that it seemed bad but it paid off. Time will really tell. Not a few years like OB said...but 8 games should say something
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
& I thought the McNair’s just didn’t care about the day-to-day operations of the Texans but it sounds like they never had, or have, the business sense to run a lemonade stand, much less a full fledged organization. No wonder the “flat organization structure” appeals to them.

O’Brien is here forever, unless someone buys the team from the McNair’s. Until that happens he’ll still be making horrible trades. He’ll still be running the ball after an incompletion on 1st down. He’ll still be saving time outs for a rainy day. Eventually, though, he’s going to run out of super stars. Will it matter? To most of us it will. But we don’t pay his salary.
 

Killer Bee

Waterboy
Is Nick Caserio still in play after the draft or has that ship sailed? I haven't kept up, but I'm holding out on the slim chance that the current management structure of O'Brien and Easterby is just a placeholder.
 

DBCooper

Outlaw
Contributor's Club
Is Nick Caserio still in play after the draft or has that ship sailed? I haven't kept up, but I'm holding out on the slim chance that the current management structure of O'Brien and Easterby is just a placeholder.
Easterby will go.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Time will really tell. Not a few years like OB said...but 8 games should say something
8 games? Hopkins was saying he was going to hold out. If it were anything like Brown's 8 games would barely extend through his hold out.

To me it's similar to Tunsil's deal. Who knows what could have happened while we were waiting for him to agree to what we're already resigned to agree to.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I'm still under the belief that had OB and the Texans not waited until the start of the new season to address this issue, Hopkins could still be in a Texans uniform. Everyone in the NFL knew how good Hopkins was.....so how did OB miss it? Being a little pro-active could have done wonders. Season's end, call Watson in and let him know that with another solid season under his belt, the team has decided to guarantee the last 3 years of your contract. They could've awarded him a reasonable 10M dollar signing bonus as well. Before anyone decides that would've never worked.....we'll never know since it was never tried b/c I think OB was fully prepared to cut ties with Watson at all cost!!!!
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I'm still under the belief that had OB and the Texans not waited until the start of the new season to address this issue, Hopkins could still be in a Texans uniform. Everyone in the NFL knew how good Hopkins was.....so how did OB miss it? Being a little pro-active could have done wonders. Season's end, call Watson in and let him know that with another solid season under his belt, the team has decided to guarantee the last 3 years of your contract. They could've awarded him a reasonable 10M dollar signing bonus as well. Before anyone decides that would've never worked.....we'll never know since it was never tried b/c I think OB was fully prepared to cut ties with Watson at all cost!!!!
:confused:
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
I'm still under the belief that had OB and the Texans not waited until the start of the new season to address this issue, Hopkins could still be in a Texans uniform. Everyone in the NFL knew how good Hopkins was.....so how did OB miss it? Being a little pro-active could have done wonders. Season's end, call Watson in and let him know that with another solid season under his belt, the team has decided to guarantee the last 3 years of your contract. They could've awarded him a reasonable 10M dollar signing bonus as well. Before anyone decides that would've never worked.....we'll never know since it was never tried b/c I think OB was fully prepared to cut ties with Watson at all cost!!!!
What you are saying makes sense to most including me IF it was about money. I think it was more about Hopkins just wanted to leave due to OB. I get the feeling he no longer had confidence in where this team would go with OB in charge as a head coach. Being that OB was promoted to GM, Hopkins implemented his escape clause by asking for more $$$. OB could have called his bluff by making no moves or as you say guarantee the last 3 years. I don't like the trade, 35% because Nuk is very talented but 65% because of the shat received in return.

He means Hopkins
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Smith was not a good GM. Unfortunately, Obrien is worse. There is no way that he can be a successful coach and GM simultaneously unless the QB bails him out.
By no means do I wish to say Rick Smith was a great GM. Capable of building a Super Bowl roster? Nope, Iwouldn’t go that far.

At the same time I can not deny what I’ve seen with my own two eyes. He provided the talent to produce top 5 offenses & defenses with coaches who know how to coach.

Take away those coaches & with virtually the same players the offense is in the bottom half of the league.

Start losing those players the offense & defense is in the bottom quartile.

Keep in mind, Crennel was here & got top 10 production out of his squad with the players left from the previous regime. Started loosing those players, started investing heavily in the offense, defensive production fell.

Wouldn't be too big of a problem if we saw offensive production pick up, but that didn’t happen.

Was Rick Smith part of the problem?
Was his office on Kirby?

But he wasn’t the biggest problem.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
By no means do I wish to say Rick Smith was a great GM. Capable of building a Super Bowl roster? Nope, Iwouldn’t go that far.

At the same time I can not deny what I’ve seen with my own two eyes. He provided the talent to produce top 5 offenses & defenses with coaches who know how to coach.

Take away those coaches & with virtually the same players the offense is in the bottom half of the league.

Start losing those players the offense & defense is in the bottom quartile.

Keep in mind, Crennel was here & got top 10 production out of his squad with the players left from the previous regime. Started loosing those players, started investing heavily in the offense, defensive production fell.

Would be too big of a problem if we saw offensive production pick up, but that didn’t happen.

Was Rick Smith part of the problem?
Was his office on Kirby?

But he wasn’t the biggest problem.
You care to give us your infinite wisdom on what the biggest problem is and why RS still cant get a job in the NFL?

I dont think this post is ban worthy.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You care to give us your infinite wisdom on what the biggest problem is and why RS still cant get a job in the NFL?
First, I don't know that he's even been looking. Second I recently heard he's got a major character flaw that would be more detrimental to getting a position than his football record.


I dont think this post is ban worthy.
sigh...try to understand, it's not your opinion that determines if your post gets deleted.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
First, I don't know that he's even been looking. Second I recently heard he's got a major character flaw that would be more detrimental to getting a position than his football record.




sigh...try to understand, it's not your opinion that determines if your post gets deleted.

I deleted this post because I promised a friend of mine I would back off.

But know this Your opinion obviously decides what does and doesn't get deleted.
 
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RGV82

Random guy
Do tell...
I am curious to hear about this flaw as well.... even though he did draft several future HOFers, and did a decent job finding talent, he definitely was in the bottom tier of GMs. I heard he was close to getting a job with Washington last year, but something fell through. Very curious to hear about this "flaw" that is more detrimental to teams.
 


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