I hope that Gaine is allowed to trade for Jenkins and sign Claiborne in FA.
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
I hope that Gaine is allowed to trade for Jenkins and sign Claiborne in FA.
I hope that Gaine is allowed to trade for Jenkins and sign Claiborne in FA.
Yes, both teams were taking multiple O-line picks (especially Colts) over the previous drafts while BOB and Smith/Gaine have only picked up XSF, Martin, Davenport, Fuller, and Rankin since 2014. The Colts on the other hand have picked 10 O-linemen in the same period and the Titans have picked 7. The Titans last draft had only 4 picks (due to trades) and used them to shore up their Defense so that's really 7 in 4 years. The point is, teams that are trying to either build or bolster their O-line should use multiple picks to do so. You may go through several "rounds in the chamber," so to speak, before you find one that hits. I know this is true of all positions but it it seems more so with the O-line since it's such a key component to a team being able to run the Offense effectively and protect the QB. I know it's getting tougher to find good O-linemen in the draft since the colleges don't really coach them up to play in the NFL anymore but, that's all the more reason to draft multiple O-linemen in every draft.
Anyway, I just hope BOB/Gaine have better luck picking their O-linemen than BOB/Smith did. Jury is still out on Rankin.
Jenkins ? And the Claiborne who's a corner ?
Janoris Jenkins
Feels like I've heard this before.
Recently
You will and need to keep hearing this.
Shishkabob
All Pro
and signs Trent Brown, still would want to draft a tackle or 2 high up, but I would feel much better having a good vet over there next season as oppose to a rookie
I actually like Donovan Smith more than Brown.
Yes I would still draft another OT high.
Shishkabob
All Pro
I keep forgetting he is a FA this year. I'd be happy with either one honestly
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
A known quantity at LT would be great, but I hate to pay through the nose for one. Drafting a guy to groom is smart.
Oline is something you can't have too much of, unless you are paying a high price to keep them.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
hey someone told me we need to fix the offensive line or something like that .. any truth to it? 
I wonder what O'Brien would say if we asked him his thoughts on upgrading the LT position this offseason.
badboy
Hall of Fame
He said yesterday that he thought D was fine and like all players D wished he had some plays back. O'Brien could have said a lot of other things in a fair evaluation so maybe he truly thinks LT will remain Davenport's going forward. It has been shown often that Davenport doesn't get fair evaluation by many here. I'm not saying he's great but he might be able to hold his own against who might be available in draft.
Have you ever heard BOB say anything bad about a guy?
I think actions speak louder than words. They tried to pay Solder big $$$$.
Fact is Davenport is not very good at his job and needs to be replaced. Imagine having a LT that you didn't have to keep guys in to give him help, this offense would look so much better.
After checking out tonights game I'm liking Scharping in the 2nd and Oklahoma's Evans in the 1st. Give me a fast WR with the other pick and 2 vet CB's in FA. A late rd blocking TE wouldn't hurt anything either.
In short the offense needs a major talent upgrade.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I mean what's he suppose to say, "yeah that guy really sucked didn't he. I'm thinking of replacing him with the guy in the Toro costume " One thing I do give BoB credit for is the only person he runs down in press conferences is himself. Everyone else if/when there needs to be an ass chewing he does it behind closed doors.
Personally I like that, I hate when owners/GMs/coaches air dirty laundray to the press. I also think it's one reason he seems to have the locker rooms respect they know he's not going to run them down just to cover his ass even if its justified. I mean I don't even remember him saying one bad thing about Osweiler even after they blew up at each other.
Didn't you say the same about Newton?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Newton was an All-Pro, but he played well enough we didn't "have" to "do something"
I don't know what BO'b & Gaine thinks about Davenport. I hope he plays well enough, over the next six weeks, that they see a solid option that continues to improve so they don't feel a need to settle for a guy they're not sure about.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
One of those things about NFL football is that the more important the position , the harder it is to find .
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
True and for our team forget finding a franchise QB we should have been looking for a franchise kicker.
I think this is the first time I've ever seen you actually admit to this.
I thought it was more of a slam. If Davenport was any good they wouldn't have offered so much to Solder.
Kubiak was the same way in that he rarely critisized one of his own or even another teams players in public, certainly not at a presser. I mean where's the upside ?
But wait there was that guy from ND who O'Brien complained about never being able to get thru a practice.
Newton sucked too except in his contract yr.
I see what you did there TK! Six weeks puts us in the Super Bowl, right? Now that's some positive thinking! And, I hope you're right about Davenport!
Texansballer74
The Marine
Davenport will continue to be the left tackle for years to come. Brown wasn't good in his first full season. But he became a beast for a many years for us. We as fans needs to exercise some patience. Give the youngster time to develop.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
O: ......."uhmmmm, that would be on me, I'll take all the blame".
R: No, Coach.....Coach....Coach, I asked what your thoughts were on upgrading LT?
O: ......."uhmmmm, Davenport is progressing....but if it isn't going fast enough......that would be on me, I'll take the blame".
R: Coach, your wife called and complained about your pre-mature uhmm-uhmmm problem?
O: ......"uhmmmm, yeah that would be on me, I'll take the blame". Wait! Hey you....yeah you smartarse, you want me to come down there and punch you in the lip?
O'Brien, you've got to come up with some better responses and real answers when asked.
Shishkabob
All Pro
No he doesn't he does what a coach is suppose to do, deflect negative attention from the media away from his players and puts it on himself. He will handle the calling outs and ass chewing in house where it is suppose to be done. What is he suppose to come out 2 weeks before the playoffs start and tell everyone "Yea our line is a real big issue John, I think we need a major overhaul this off season on it I just can't see us getting very far with this group of guys"?
or when he is asked what he noticed on a play that did or didn't work, why give a real answer? He has nothing to gain over telling the media what he noticed, and a lot to lose. So why does he need to change up his answers? because you want more insight? because Landry Locker will get butthurt and go on a 30 minute rant on the worst sports talk show in the city the day after?
DB had the feet to play LT at a pro bowl level. He missed some assignments but he had the talent. Davenport doesn't have the feet to be a starting LT in the NFL and no amount of experience is going to change that. He might get better but the talent isn't there. IMHO
Makes you wonder what Devlin was looking at
AggiebyMarriage
Waterboy
Just a quick update:The Texans O-Line has reached it's full potential and is officially the WORST PASS BLOCKING O-LINE IN THE NFL.
Football Outsiders Latest O-Line Rankings (12/18/18) for the 2018 NFL Season
Team / Pass Blocking Ranking /No. of Sacks / Adjusted Sack rate
Houston / 32 / 52 / 11.4%
To the 2018 Texans O-Line:
Good Work Guy's, From the first Bone Crushing Sack of the season that Deshaun suffered, I knew you had it in you to reach your goal.
Last edited:
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Wondering if one of those subscription analytics shops have any data on the timing of the sacks post-snap.
I love me some DW4, and this Oline definitely needs to improve their pass blocking, but GET RID OF THE DAMN BALL!
My loving the fact that he never gives up on a play is being replaced with frustration that he is taking unnecessary sacks in doing so. Not to mention the offense appears to have some of the longest developing plays in the NFL.
How much time post-snap is the Oline responsible for the sack, versus the QB or the OC?
I love me some DW4, and this Oline definitely needs to improve their pass blocking, but GET RID OF THE DAMN BALL!
My loving the fact that he never gives up on a play is being replaced with frustration that he is taking unnecessary sacks in doing so. Not to mention the offense appears to have some of the longest developing plays in the NFL.
How much time post-snap is the Oline responsible for the sack, versus the QB or the OC?
AggiebyMarriage
Waterboy
This is the exact definition of "Adjusted Sack Rate":
"Adjusted Sack Rate (ASR)/Sack Rate: Sack Rate represents sacks divided by pass plays, which include passes, sacks, and aborted snaps. It is a better measure of pass blocking than total sacks because it takes into account how often an offense passes the ball. Adjusted Sack Rate adds adjustments for opponent quality, as well as down and distance (sacks are more common on third down, especially third-and-long)."
So time that the QB held the ball is not factored in, but everything else is.
Shishkabob
All Pro
It's hard to try to gauge on a play by play basis how quickly the QB needs to get rid of the ball. But PFF tries to, I can't see the most up to date numbers as I do not subscribe, but this is what it was after the Titans games a few weeks back
https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2018/11/28/pro-football-focus-sacks-texans-qb-deshaun-watson/
He was tied for 4th in the NFL with 7 sacks he caused himself. Take those 7 out of our 37 at the time away, and he was still in the top 10 most sacked QBs. Since then we have tacked on 15 more sacks bringing the total to 52. I know for a fact PFF charged Watson with 1 out of the 6 sacks this last week. I can't find them mentioning anything about it the 2 weeks before that, but let's just say they charged him with 2 more sacks bringing his total self inflicted sacks up to 10, he would still be tied with Wilson for the 6th most sacked QB at 42 without those.
Now the time the line is responsible to block post snap varies depending on the blocking scheme. Obviously when you are in a spread formation, only 5 lineman into block(maybe leaving the RB in to help chip) I'd say you should get the ball out in under 3 seconds. You will generally have 4-5 guys out in routes then giving you more options, leading to more creative routes that can help someone get open, etc. Now if you employ the method of how we have to block since our line can't handle 1v1 situations very well where we leave 7-8 guys in to block or at the very least chip and release late, now you are at 2-3 guys out running routes initially so you should have a solid 3-4 seconds to let those guys work themselves open as 2-3 guys trying to get open vs 6 guys isn't easy to do.
Then comes the issue of throwing the ball away, and yes there are times he most certainly can and should throw the ball away that he doesn't, but there are a lot of times when I've seen people screaming he is holding it for to long but he doesn't really have a chance to throw it away. To throw the ball away you have to get outside of the pocket generally, teams like the Colts I thought did a fantastic job in how they rushed Watson so he couldn't escape outside the pocket to get rid of the ball. Their outside rushers rushed with lane integrity, they didn't do what we see JJ and JD do a lot of the times and cut hard inside giving the QB an escape route, they maintained integrity and their interior rushers complimented them very well by getting great push so he couldn't step up and throw or up and out had he wanted to. He could stay in the pocket I suppose and just sail it over someones head I suppose, but that comes with risk to. What if he gets hit as he is trying to just throw it over Nuk's head, the ball hangs in the air, doesn't go where he wants it to and now it's off to the races for the other team. There is a very fine line between when a QB should stay in the pocket, bail, and or throw the ball away, often coming down to split seconds. It's something Watson has to work on and recognize. but I don't think our current line is helping him very much with this
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
so whats the new revelation? this unit has been substandard all year, BUT has shown flashes. These last few games the team gave up 5 sacks to INdy and then 7 to NY. Prior to that the unit had been doing an 'admirable' job, but as things go in the NFL a week or two and you're out of the playoffs.
Its up to coaches to account for the obvious until it can be remedied.
Its up to coaches to account for the obvious until it can be remedied.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
There is no remedy to make up for lack of talent & at this point in the season you just have to roll with what you got. They're already max protecting as much as possible without killing the offense. They already have the TE & RB's chipping before they go out in route.
We just have to do it better and let the chips fall where they may.
We just have to do it better and let the chips fall where they may.
Can't fix the talent issue. But there is plenty that can be done. Watch KV, watch the Browns, watch Philly. Establish a rhythm. Move the pocket. Work on RB screens. There are several things we could & should be doing from a scheme stand point that we don't.
Even the Colts bring I. A 6th lineman frequently on passing downs so they don't have to rely on sub par TE blocking.
Jadmakaveli
Veteran
Honestly thought this line was better than last year but honestly I might be wrong slightly. I believe the pass pro was better last year but also feel that had to do with play calling. Run pro this year was much better than last year.
Texansballer74
The Marine
They have been up and down for sure. Several obvious things that need to be addressed.
1. These long drawn out routes.
2. Only two receivers running patterns ( a lot of those plays are long developing patterns to)
3. Predictable snap counts.
4. Predictable running game.
5. Watson holding onto the ball too freaking long.
Coaching has to recognize what we all see and make adjustments accordingly.
Honestly it's too hard for me to evaluate. Looking at the photos amazing80 posted in the other thread I'm starting to believe the linemen, backs, TEs, & QB are not on the same page.
I'm not against bringing in more or better talent. Every year there's a draft & FA so we have to do something. But I'd like to know what's going on communication wise before I identify a draft/FA strategy.
Jadmakaveli
Veteran
I agree. What I loved Carter saw on his big play he noticed the blitz and cut his route short and made a easy play for Deshaun to hit him for a huge gain. If we could get more of that it would be great. But yea it’s definitely entire team not on the same page so BoB needs to coach that one up.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You guys need to really pay attention b/c we do all this stuff you just can't run that stuff for a full game. This has been talked about ad nauseum on here & the radio.
That last drive against the Jets when we scored a TD didn't work because we went 5 wide & started dumping the ball short...It worked b/c we used tempo. But you can't run tempo for a full 60 b/c it loses its effect on the defense after a while...Kinda think that's why BoB broke it out when he did b/c we were in a must score situation with limited possessions left.
Plays are also called that move the pocket for DW4...you see alot of play-action boot calls from BoB....plus DW4 naturally moves the pocket himself when he scrambles, but when you do that you cut the qb's field in 1/2 for viable throws...double edge sword.
We also run the hell out of those bubble screens to Nuk/DT...we run them so much that they've become less effective than they were just 2 games ago. We used to get 5-8 yds off those & DT nearly broke one for a TD against washington I believe. Now, we barely get 2-3 yards off of them b/c teams know its become a staple of our offense to mitigate their rush on our sorry ass o-line...Indy blew it up...the Jets blew it up. Screens to the rb would likely meet the same fate if we started running them too much.
& I don't know about the Colts "frequently" bringing a 6th lineman, but the reason we end up in situations with sub par TE blocking is b/c we at least want to maintain the threat of pass with those guys on the field. Can't do that with a 6th lineman on the field frequently.
One probable reason for DW4 hanging on to the ball too long is the loss of Fuller and Coutee (the speed WR's) and that's why it's taking too long for certain plays to develop that usually end in a sack. Hop and DT just don't get the separation quick enough a lot of the time. Carter does have a little more speed to him and should help some but I think getting Coutee back would help a lot. Another thing that doesn't help was the shut down of the run game by the Colts and Jets. I'm not sure if they were able to figure out something that the Texans were doing (a "tip") or both teams have better interior linemen that didn't allow the openings they had seen in games previously. Either way, it doesn't help the passing game when your run game is completely shut down.
This offense was playing much better and giving up less sacks when the O-line was opening holes and Miller/Blue were gaining 100+ yards on the ground (Stating the obvious here.)! They have to find a way to get back to that or they won't get very far in the playoffs. Coutee and Foreman coming back and playing at a high level sure would help IMO.
This offense was playing much better and giving up less sacks when the O-line was opening holes and Miller/Blue were gaining 100+ yards on the ground (Stating the obvious here.)! They have to find a way to get back to that or they won't get very far in the playoffs. Coutee and Foreman coming back and playing at a high level sure would help IMO.
Jadmakaveli
Veteran
Hard for the same hand off up the middle with 7 on the line that gets no push to work when the other team has seen that exact play a million times on film. When we start running zone reads the run game will open more. until then it won't go anywhere. That's what helped the run game last year. But again we've totally thrown out everything from last year and this year running a very basic offense.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
And what makes the Colts line even more dangerous is that Andrew Luck is operating behind it.